Darth Nox vs Mace Windu

[Dagoz]

The PT Jedi are referred to as the Jedi at the height of their power.

It was canon when their was tiers of canon (G-Canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, N-canon), and it's still canon whilst the EU (including this game's stories) has been rendered non-canon.

 

Until Disney announces such, it's only in George's headcanon that the Jedi are at the height of their power in PT.

 

 

Having read through Dagoz's comments, doing so would be a futile exercise.

He/she won't accept canon by his/her own words

 

Yes I have my own headcanon. That's the point of this thread. "Who do you think would win between Nox and Windu?". The answer has been for Mace mostly and these people are considering ALL of Legends, which is obvious due to the Mary Sue BS that plagued Old EU. Does this mean discussion over? No, this is a forum, where discussion requires more than one simplistic answer.

 

Expanding on the topic, if one follows reason and logic to it's conclusion, one would see that ALL of the Legends sources being given in this thread except TOR/KOTOR will NEVER be canon again. Ideas may be taken from story lines, but not details like the ones being given here. The only sources that could be made Disney-Canon in the future are KOTOR/TOR. They are the ONLY sources worth consideration. Now since this is a TOR(character) vs Canon(character), we have to also argue from the perspective of assuming TOR will be canon in the future, how does Disney-Canon Darth Nox compare to Disney-Canon Mace Windu, and the answer to THAT is that Mace Windu can block Force Lightning, but good luck blocking Force Storm while Crushing Darkness and Siphon Life devour your body.

 

Disney can announce any time that TOR is part of their official canon. That's the difference.

 

See?

Dealing with someone who chooses what is and isn't canon to their mind in order to make their arguments, and

ignores what they don't like if it conflicts with their own head-canon.

 

See above, sucka. This thread is all about what people THINK would happen based off basically fan-fiction.

 

This is the funniest part.

Providing "canon evidence" based on his/her own head-canon as opposed to evidence that is canon.

 

Trying to reason with anyone with this kind of mindset is insanity.

They're like a politician rattling off the same unchanging BS rhetoric and making statements that everyone else has proven wrong, but ignores the fact that they've been proven wrong.

 

That "canon evidence" was a direct movie quote from EP. III in which Yoda tells Obi-Wan that Qui-Gon has "discovered the secret" to becoming a Force Ghost, or as he says "immortality". This means, canonically, that being a Force Ghost is A LOST TECHNIQUE. Now, again, for the sake of argument and logic, we assume TOR is canon, there's Force Ghosts everywhere. This leads to the thought that there was a ton of things about the Force that were lost throughout history.

 

Without assuming TOR will be made canon in the future, my arguments mean little. However, it's way closer and more possible than any of Zoltan's sources from the crappier parts of Legends. Which is ironic considering Zoltan keeps saying his sources are better than my "opinion" lol.

 

Insecure? You brought this whole BS up in the first place. A lot of people in this thread called Nox a he. Go back and take a look for yourself. Why aren't you calling them out? Why is it such a big deal that I called Nox a she, yet you don't care when someone calls Nox a he? If anyone here is insecure, it's you. Every powerful protagonist must be male, am I right?

And while we're at it, just like her gender wasn't specified, neither was her alignment. She can be Darth Nox, Darth Imperius, and Darth Occlus. The name Nox is just as much not canon as the gender. So stop bugging me with trivial ****.

 

PS: I'm a guy.

 

I asked why you did it and you responded with a question of why you couldn't call Nox she if I called Nox he. I never called Nox a he. I'm not calling out anyone who called Nox a he because I'm not arguing with them, I'm arguing with you. Gender and alignment weren't specified because it's a player driven character. Storyline-wise, Darth Nox had their life-span increased by many solar rotations in a dwarf-galaxy, okay? Mace Windu sits in a little chair on Coruscant for half his life and maybe fights some droids and duels some friends for fun the other half. Darth Nox is a seasoned War Veteran who's killed thousands of Jedi and plenty of Sith as well. Windu's only batttle experience is droids and training, which is hardly equal to decades of war and surviving ambitious Sith trying to usurp you constantly. Nox has multiple Force Ghosts under complete control due to a Rakatan Machine that rebuilt Nox a cellular level, and powerful Voss mystics that restored and emboldened the mind. Mace Windu doesn't even believe in Force Ghosts, and doesn't know what a Rakatan or Voss mystic even is.

 

THINK about it for a second.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Dagoz

[Rhyltran]

K well good luck lol

 

 

 

 

Just as canon, so not at all, yet? The difference is TOR can become canon at any time. All those sources will never be. Ever.

 

 

 

You cannot be the best swordsman in the Jedi Order and also have equals. You're either the best or not. It is a contradiction. Anakin being more powerful means absolute dick. Power means NOTHING in saber fights if you knew anything about how Sith and Jedi duel you'd know it's all about technique and skill and LUCK. The physical strength behind blows is almost irrelevant. Don't try and bring up Luke vs Vader either. Vader wasn't nearly as agile or skilled after losing his limbs.

 

 

 

No one is trying to say they're the same. Yoda lost because he's old as crap and he couldn't hold out. Wanna pretend it was something else? Your prerogative.

 

 

 

 

Yay more non-canon sources that mean diddly. Guess what? I have provided evidence that is canon, that OR era force users knew more than PT force users. Ready? I'm gonna repeat myself again so get ready. In the Old Republic, the Force is so common that normal people in obscure systems know of it and even of Force Ghosts, okay? Both sides have force ghosts, dark and light. Now in the PT, barely anyone knows about the Force throughout the Galaxy. Only some in the galaxy even know Jedi exist anymore and no one even believes in force ghosts at all. Yoda says Qui-Gon "discovered the secret" (meaning they lost the damn knowledge, you jerks, they didn't know DONG compared to OR) to staying a force ghost after dying. Mace acts incredulous like he believed it was impossible. That enough damn evidence for you guys?

 

Obi Wan: In my experience there's no such thing as luck.

 

Saber duels are about power. You realize with more power you can amplify your strength, your speed, and your capabilities? Sidious was able to move so fast the Jedi masters could barely follow them with their eyes. Let's assume for a moment he had a one on one fight with one of them and let's assume for a moment Sidious wasn't the best Sith swordsman. If they could barely follow his movements, even if one of them is more skilled, do you really think they stand much of a chance? You can be the best swordsman but if your opponent is moving so fast you can't keep track of him you're probably going to die.

 

The books are Canon so long as they don't contradict the movies and in the ROTS novelization even Dooku acknowledges that Anakin's speed and strength has outstripped his own. He was having great difficulty parrying and keeping up with his attacks. In fact Anakin even mentions to Dooku in the movies "My power has doubled since we last fought." why would that be a relevant statement if power doesn't mean anything in a saber fight?

 

Disney can announce at anytime that TOR is Canon but they outright stated that they don't want to make changes to bioware's universe and THIS is why it's non-canon. Get what that means? If they made the old republic era Canon (if you read between the lines) they would change it. Because they liked what bioware is doing they didn't want to do this. If you think Disney will just declare the old republic canon without significant changes you're going to be very mistaken. Disney has their own plans for the origin of the force, the dark side, etc. So Rakata tech and the rest of it would probably be axed.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Rhyltran

[S_W_LeGenD]

Golden Age doesn't necessarily refers to the competency of an Order in combat roles in Star Wars. My take of George Lucas's remark is that he was referring to the timeline in which the Jedi Order was not externally challenged by a faction for supremacy; this period can be interpreted as the Golden Age of the Jedi.

 

If holistic competency of the Jedi Order in combat roles is the argument then the Jedi Order is stated to have peaked in this regard during TOR era in a source.

 

 

Taken from Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide

 

Knights of the Old Republic campaigns take place against a backdrop that captures everything that makes Star Wars unique. Even more so then in the Clone Wars, these are the days of the Jedi in their prime. They do battles with the evil Sith, and defend the galaxy against the Mandalorian hordes.

 

Taken from Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide

 

During this time, the Jedi Order is at the summit of its power and self-confidence.

 

Taken from Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide

 

The many wars of this era compel large numbers of Jedi to become experts in lightsaber and Force-related combat. Some become masters on the battlefield; others become highly skilled duelists, able to battle dark Jedi and Sith in single combat.

 

Edited October 12, 2015 by S_W_LeGenD

[Dagoz]

Obi Wan: In my experience there's no such thing as luck.

 

Saber duels are about power. You realize with more power you can amplify your strength, your speed, and your capabilities? Sidious was able to move so fast the Jedi masters could barely follow them with their eyes. Let's assume for a moment he had a one on one fight with one of them and let's assume for a moment Sidious wasn't the best Sith swordsman. If they could barely follow his movements, even if one of them is more skilled, do you really think they stand much of a chance? You can be the best swordsman but if your opponent is moving so fast you can't keep track of him you're probably going to die.

 

The books are Canon so long as they don't contradict the movies and in the ROTS novelization even Dooku acknowledges that Anakin's speed and strength has outstripped his own. He was having great difficulty parrying and keeping up with his attacks. In fact Anakin even mentions to Dooku in the movies "My power has doubled since we last fought." why would that be a relevant statement if power doesn't mean anything in a saber fight?

 

Disney can announce at anytime that TOR is Canon but they outright stated that they don't want to make changes to bioware's universe and THIS is why it's non-canon. Get what that means? If they made the old republic era Canon (if you read between the lines) they would change it. Because they liked what bioware is doing they didn't want to do this. If you think Disney will just declare the old republic canon without significant changes you're going to be very mistaken. Disney has their own plans for the origin of the force, the dark side, etc. So Rakata tech and the rest of it would probably be axed.

 

Saber duels aren't always about power, and if they are, then Nox has more power with all those ghosts than Windu does. Anakin lost to Obi-Wan and he had maximum power. You gonna say Obi-Wan is stronger than Anakin now?

 

It's a give and take, like I said it comes down to certain things, including luck. I know the Jedi don't believe in luck, but whatever.

 

Sure they may not want to make changes, but that's not stopping them from taking it all and making it canon. They could take it without making changes, you never know. Of course that has a lower probability, but I find still higher than anything Zoltan's arguing with.

[Rhyltran]

Saber duels aren't always about power, and if they are, then Nox has more power with all those ghosts than Windu does. Anakin lost to Obi-Wan and he had maximum power. You gonna say Obi-Wan is stronger than Anakin now?

 

It's a give and take, like I said it comes down to certain things, including luck. I know the Jedi don't believe in luck, but whatever.

 

Sure they may not want to make changes, but that's not stopping them from taking it all and making it canon. They could take it without making changes, you never know. Of course that has a lower probability, but I find still higher than anything Zoltan's arguing with.

 

Saber duels are about power, skill, technique, and tactical awareness. This is correct but if you're completely outstripped of power then it doesn't matter if you're more skilled. You argued that since Anakin defeated Dooku he's a better duelist than Dooku. This isn't the case. Dooku is noted to being more skilled but Anakin is no slouch himself. He too was a saber master. He was a master of Djem So and was noted as one of it's best practitioners. So this combined with having a lot more power than Dooku allowed him to overwhelm and destroy him.

 

Anakin lost to Obi Wan for a mixture of reasons. We know in universe (as it's stated in the novels, especially in return of the Jedi) when Vader faces people he has connections with he begins an internal struggle inside himself which prevents him from using his full power on him. Luke called him out on it telling him that he could sense the conflict within him and that he wouldn't kill him. Likewise, Anakin had trouble bringing himself to kill a man he once considered a brother.

 

There's also the facts that while he was stronger and faster than Obi Wan the latter also knew every move he'd make. He's seen him, fought beside him, and understood him. Obi Wan is stated in universe as being the greatest Soresu master to ever live. By anticipating what Anakin would do and using his knowledge of him so well his goal was to hold him off until he could find an opening. In the entire fight Anakin was driving Obi Wan back. The closest you have is the force push example but force techniques can also be mastered.

 

Obi Wan was noted as having an extremely powerful force push. It's a technique he really specialized and mastered. Plus as noted.. Anakin was conflicted. One could make the case (and I have no evidence for this) fighting against his former pupil would also create a bigger drive in obi wan kenobi because he knew Yoda was counting on him. It was literally a case of "If I fail the entire galaxy loses." this would be a bigger drive than anything before.

 

Also note that while Dooku was considered Windu's equal as a duelist when they fought later on in the comics after a very brief engagement Dooku had his Droids interfere and took off. Why? Windu's use of vaapad. A style that draws on your opponent's darkness so you can amplify yourself with it and re-direct it back to them. The moment Dooku turned to the dark side Windu was deadlier than Dooku. Dooku bailed quicker than he did in his fight with Yoda. Windu would have had no trouble in a room with no escape killing Dooku in moments.

 

Realize that Nox gains power from drawing on the ghosts but that is very dark side power. The more dark side power Nox draws on the more Windu will be amped from his vaapad. The only reason Windu stood a chance against Sidious is because of his skill as a duelist and his technique known as Vaapad. No one else was able to master Vaapad without falling into darkness. Windu invented the ultimate saber technique in combatting/destroying dark side users. Also.. the technique is mentioned in the novel so it's very canon even Disney Canon.

 

The last thing I'm going to say is that you acknowledged it's very unlikely that Disney will make TOR Canon. Also the argument "They may.." has no weight in making TOR more accurate than the EU.

 

Disney's stance is this..

 

EU and TOR are Non-canon. One is not more canon than the other. They're just as non-canon. If you're going to claim the EU is non-canon and like to ignore it that's fine but you can't pick/choose what is and isn't canon. Disney gets the say so. To them they're both not so they're equal. Disney has acknowledged if they touched the old republic there would be massive changes. This means that in all likelihood there won't be a nox, vitiate, rakata, star forge, or any of the rest of it.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Rhyltran

[PurpleDelirium]

This.

There was almost no point continuing on past this answer at all.

 

I say almost, because the only thing more pointless was the initial question.

 

The only thing more pointless than either of those two things is your snide comment. This may be CRAZY to you, but this may be a somewhat of an interesting topic to others, clearly. It's not all about you. If you need any further assistance feel free to PM and I'll do the best to explain in a way that you would understand.

-----

Setting aside all arguments regarding feats and such, I again will say that this thread was made with my actual intention of gauging how much of a THREAT Nox is to Windu. Conclusively, he wins I think rather unquestionably, but I won't further add to the argument as winning points have already been made several times over.

Edited October 12, 2015 by PurpleDelirium

[Fyurii]

The only thing more pointless than either of those two things is your snide comment.

No, you're a stoopid head

 

See, I can be directly petulant towards you too!

 

This may be CRAZY to you, but this may be a somewhat of an interesting topic to others, clearly. It's not all about you.

 

No, it's not "crazy" to me. Crazy would be more putting Deadeye Duncan up against Vitiate in a 1-on-1 combat scenario.

 

I never said or implied that "it was all about me", but you seem to have taken such umbrage concerning my comments, that you've misconstrued them as being a direct attack on you...

Take your own words to heart

It's not all about you.

 

 

If you need any further assistance feel free to PM and I'll do the best to explain in a way that you would understand.

 

Given the condescending tone of your sentence here, I'm going to say no thank you to your entirely disingenuous "offer" to explain to me via PM, especially when you decided to make such personal attacks against me in public, as opposed to doing it via PM yourself.

[LordQordisz]

There's also the facts that while he was stronger and faster than Obi Wan the latter also knew every move he'd make. He's seen him, fought beside him, and understood him.

 

Personally I'd not even use this argument for the reason that this also applies to Anakin in regards to Obi-Wan. They both knew each other intimately.

 

In the entire fight Anakin was driving Obi Wan back. The closest you have is the force push example but force techniques can also be mastered.

 

I believe that generally in that fight Obi-Wan was actually maneuvering where he wanted to go.

 

"In every exchange, Obi-Wan gave ground. It was his way."

 

"Obi-Wan let Anakin drive him toward it. It was a place, he decided, they should reach together."

 

There are other similar quotes in the novel. So I think where it may seem that Anakin is pushing forward because he's got Obi-Wan on his heels, I'd say that it was otherwise.

 

We know in universe (as it's stated in the novels, especially in return of the Jedi) when Vader faces people he has connections with he begins an internal struggle inside himself which prevents him from using his full power on him.

 

I would say that there was a similar instance with Obi-Wan in his fight with Anakin where he held back. Take for example this quote.

 

He twitched one finger, reaching through the Force to reverse the polarity of the electrodrivers in Anakin's mechanical hand. Durasteel fingers sprang open, and a lightsaber tumbled free. Obi-Wan reached. Anakin's lightsaber twisted in the air and flipped into his hand. He poised both blades in a cross before him. 'The flaw of power is arrogance.' 'You hesitate,' Anakin said. 'The flaw of compassion-' 'It's not compassion,' Obi-Wan said sadly. 'It's reverence for life. Even yours. It's respect for the man you were.' He sighed. 'It's regret for the man you should have been.

[PurpleDelirium]

No, you're a stoopid head

 

See, I can be directly petulant towards you too!

 

 

 

No, it's not "crazy" to me. Crazy would be more putting Deadeye Duncan up against Vitiate in a 1-on-1 combat scenario.

 

I never said or implied that "it was all about me", but you seem to have taken such umbrage concerning my comments, that you've misconstrued them as being a direct attack on you...

Take your own words to heart

 

 

 

 

Given the condescending tone of your sentence here, I'm going to say no thank you to your entirely disingenuous "offer" to explain to me via PM, especially when you decided to make such personal attacks against me in public, as opposed to doing it via PM yourself.

 

Good job in avoiding all responsibility for a comment clearly made with the intention of giving yourself a pitiful pat on your own back. Again, you fail to understand that maybe this thread wasn't made for you and others wish to discuss it, but I see now that is above your understanding. Feel free to have whatever last word you'd like, I know from seeing your previous snide comments on other threads that you probably need it. Good luck

-----------------------

 

 

I think Obi-wan's strategy in maneuvering the fight the way he wanted with Anakin was confirmed by G-canon sources as well. I'll post them as soon as I can re-dig them up.

 

It would be really interesting to see what sort of amp Mace Windu would get from fighting Nox using his Vapaad

[Fyurii]

Good job in avoiding all responsibility for a comment clearly made with the intention of giving yourself a pitiful pat on your own back.

 

Again with the attacks.

I made an observation and gave an opinion.

 

Again, you fail to understand that maybe this thread wasn't made for you and others wish to discuss it, but I see now that is above your understanding.

 

No, I fully understand why it was made and "who it was for".

 

Feel free to have whatever last word you'd like, I know from seeing your previous snide comments on other threads that you probably need it. Good luck

 

This isn't a competition of baiting each other with "last word" behaviour. That line itself is purposefully confrontational on your part, and can easily be seen as attempting to bait me whilst trying to make yourself appear as having some sort of "high ground".

You attacked me, and continue to do so, based upon a comment made that was in no way snide, yet you took it as an attack on you personally.

You were so incensed by what I said, that you went ahead and made a similar thread with the caveat of

If you don't have anything to say that actually contributes to the discussion, please refrain from commenting.

The above can easily be misconstrued as an attempt at baiting me, especially in light of your open and continued behaviour towards me.

 

Why don't you go ahead and PM me every single "snide" comment I've made on other threads, since you seem to have looked over my posting history to be able to make such an assertion...

 

For what it's worth, it was never my intention to hurt your feelings at all, and I sincerely apologise for any misunderstanding.

If you do feel the desire to continue this dialogue, it would be better done via PM instead of continuing in the thread itself.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Fyurii

[TACeMossie]

I think Windu takes this hands-down. Why?

 

Because, even if SWTOR were to become cannon, Nox would not. At least, not without conflicting with current cannon status.

 

In Season 6 of The Clone Wars, the story arch where they renamed Korriban to Moraband because "Reasons" stated that it was physically impossible for a dark-side force ghost to exist. As such, the entirety of Chapter 2/3 of the inquisitor would not be possible.

 

Light-side force ghosts can exist though, as proven by Yoda, Obi Wan, Anakin, etc..., and the story arch implied that the only way to retain individuality after death was to purge yourself of your inner darkness completely, among other things.

 

So with that, we have to look at Legends stuff to have a fair comparison between Mace + Nox. Otherwise, its literally just a low-level sorc vs the greatest swordsman of the jedi order ever (at least vs Dark Side force users).

 

Since we specified the thread is Mace vs Nox, we can assume the inquisitor has 6 force ghosts bound to them, and is pure dark sided.

 

For Mace, he has access to all 7 lightsaber forms, as well as Vaapad, Shatterpoint, and Force Crush.

 

Since they are aware of the fight, they can prepare:

 

Nox would bring a variety of external items to help out, such as adrenals to speed themself up in combat, and obtain explosives to use against Mace. No Mandalorian Beskar to deflect Mace's lightsaber blows though, because Nox doesn't even have Medium armor proficiency, let alone heavy.

 

Mace on the other hand, has a far larger arsenal to deploy. Because he doesn't rely on the force, he could go get a yslamar (spelling is wrong but whatever, its those lizards that eat the force) to outright remove that aspect of Nox's abilities, bringing the fight to a hand-to-hand and blasters/explosives battle. Of course, that's stupid, so I won't bring that up outside this situation.

 

His use of Shatterpoint would give Mace clear insight into Nox's weakness. When he was fighting Palpatine, he realized that the only way to get rid of him was through Anakin (which was true), and the only way to get to Anakin was through Padme (which was also true). As such, Mace would clearly be able to see that Nox's weakness is through is force ghosts, and with his "being prepared" he would easily get rid of that advantage.

 

In addition, His mastery of Vaapad would amplify his speed and precision against foes stronger in the dark side - thanks to it, a duelist who could only stand up against Dooku was able to stand up against "The strongest sith in existence", and its also the reason why he sent Kenobi against grevious instead of doing it himself - Kenobi's mastery of Soresu was beyond anyone else because it was all he did, and Vaapad was useless against a Cyborg who doesn't use the force.

 

Finally, if it comes down to it, Force Crush is absolutely brutal. And in SWTOR, only the wrath has access to that specific force power.

 

As such, mace wins hands down. Nox's mastery of the dark side would only make Mace stronger, and his advantages gained through his ghosts would easily be worked around thanks to Shatterpoint.

 

Now if it were Imperius vs Windu, that would be a different story, because Imperius is light-sided, neutralizing Vaapad.

Edited October 13, 2015 by TACeMossie

[JadenFlamearrow]

Darth Nox as an assasin will not stand a chance because the assasin focus's on the force and the lightsaber but lightsaber more. As a sorcerer Nox might win, because he/she would use lightning and as you probably saw in episode 6, Mace Windu was struggling to hold Palpetine's force lightning any longer.

[Rhyltran]

Darth Nox as an assasin will not stand a chance because the assasin focus's on the force and the lightsaber but lightsaber more. As a sorcerer Nox might win, because he/she would use lightning and as you probably saw in episode 6, Mace Windu was struggling to hold Palpetine's force lightning any longer.

 

Palpatine had the strongest force lightning in the history of the sith order by virtue of being the most powerful Sith. Even then it took him all out to make Windu struggle. Sidious lightning is so potent it can turn people to ashes. We don't have any evidence of Nox lightning being capable of doing the same.

[Saelinne]

Palpatine had the strongest force lightning in the history of the sith order by virtue of being the most powerful Sith. Even then it took him all out to make Windu struggle. Sidious lightning is so potent it can turn people to ashes. We don't have any evidence of Nox lightning being capable of doing the same.

 

But we also don't have any evidence that Nox's + 5 force ghosts lightning will not do that....maybe Nox was able to just throw the big brother of whatever attack he/she used when he/she attacked Thanaton with the force ghosts and win...instead he/she chose to simply endure whatever Thanaton could throw at Nox and win the duel this way....

Actually do we even know what that early attack was? Will Mace Windu be able to stop something he doesn't know what is or is it the ultimate ''I-win-button''?

Edited October 13, 2015 by Saelinne

[Rhyltran]

But we also don't have any evidence that Nox's + 5 force ghosts lightning will not do that....maybe Nox was able to just throw the big brother of whatever attack he/she used when he/she attacked Thanaton with the force ghosts and win...instead he/she chose to simply endure whatever Thanaton could throw at Nox and win the duel this way....

Actually do we even know what that early attack was? Will Mace Windu be able to stop something he doesn't know what is or is it the ultimate ''I-win-button''?

 

When Nox used the force ghosts he just used an extreme amount of force power. Just blew through Thanaton's defenses. It's not an I-win attack of any sort. Windu is more powerful than Thanaton and would have higher defenses. If we have no evidence for something it's best not to claim "Well.. it might do that." we could argue we haven't seen Harkon turn people to ashes either so maybe he can as well. It doesn't work that way. You have to use the evidence that is provided. We know Sidious is the most powerful Sith in history. We know Windu was able to take on said Sith's lightning. This allows us to assume that Windu can at least hold back force power on the level of the highest caliber. We have evidence for this.

[ScoutinArbiter]

I surmise issues like this is why they decided the scrap the EU. Too much power creep and ability bloat. Its really hard to imagine a Sith Lord who could make force storms the size of planets couldn't defend himself from a robot throwing him down a shaft....should have tried levitating. In the Ultimate canon (films) lifting an x-wing from a swamp was an amazing feat and Sidious shooting lightning or flinging senate chairs was downright awe-inspiring show of the Force. I miss the days when the Force was just a powerful ally and not God mode. But I digress.

 

Yes Mace is one of the greatest Jedi swordsmen of all time. Regardless of era or canon level. Darth Nox/Imperius as much as I love him, is not known for his swordplay or even his power. (He needs spirits to boost him to dark council level) While I do not think Sidious is as all powerful as some believe, he is a person only other 'crazies' like our Eternal Emperor can match. Nox/Imperius is not such a person. If Mace won the lightsaber duel against Sidious, he would cream Nox/Imperius without a doubt. Given that he could barely but still hold on against Sidious's ridiculously powerful lightning (the one-shot kind), I doubt Nox/Imperius's force powers would save him either.

 

Except the zombie thing. Nobody expects the zombie thing.

[S_W_LeGenD]

His use of Shatterpoint would give Mace clear insight into Nox's weakness. When he was fighting Palpatine, he realized that the only way to get rid of him was through Anakin (which was true), and the only way to get to Anakin was through Padme (which was also true). As such, Mace would clearly be able to see that Nox's weakness is through is force ghosts, and with his "being prepared" he would easily get rid of that advantage.

Shatterpoint can be a game-changer in combat situations but it does not works or emerges in every instance.

 

Mace Windu may figure-out a shortcoming in the dueling skills of Darth Nox but the latter does not prioritizes Lightsaber combat. More importantly, Windu cannot prevent Darth Nox from drawing on the power of the Force ghosts (bind to him) to fuel his strength. Shatterpoint does not diminishes a Force-user's ability to call upon the Force.

 

In addition, His mastery of Vaapad would amplify his speed and precision against foes stronger in the dark side - thanks to it, a duelist who could only stand up against Dooku was able to stand up against "The strongest sith in existence", and its also the reason why he sent Kenobi against grevious instead of doing it himself - Kenobi's mastery of Soresu was beyond anyone else because it was all he did, and Vaapad was useless against a Cyborg who doesn't use the force.

Not denying the possibility of Windu outdueling Darth Nox but we need to keep in mind the mindset and tactics of Darth Nox in combat situations.

 

Darth Sidious made a miscalculation by attempting to subdue Windu through his skills with a Lightsaber. Since he dispatched 3 Jedi Masters on quick notice, he felt that he could do the same to Windu. Darth Sidious should have relied on his Force powers to subdue Windu, instead he allowed Windu to immerse himself deeply into Vaapad and capitalize on the situation.

 

Finally, if it comes down to it, Force Crush is absolutely brutal. And in SWTOR, only the wrath has access to that specific force power.

Check this: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4540462-1752397739-vOWML.gif

 

Isn't this Force Crush in the works?

 

Force abilities available to Sith Inquisitor and Sith Warrior classes in the game may differ but protagonists do not have such restrictions in the lore. They can learn anything they want to.

 

As such, mace wins hands down. Nox's mastery of the dark side would only make Mace stronger, and his advantages gained through his ghosts would easily be worked around thanks to Shatterpoint.

 

Now if it were Imperius vs Windu, that would be a different story, because Imperius is light-sided, neutralizing Vaapad.

Darth Nox is a master of Force Drain powers and he can use them to weaken and eventually overcome Windu.

 

Here you can see Darth Nox utilizing Force Drain powers: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4540484-4792852868-VaIus.gif

 

Palpatine had the strongest force lightning in the history of the sith order by virtue of being the most powerful Sith. Even then it took him all out to make Windu struggle. Sidious lightning is so potent it can turn people to ashes. We don't have any evidence of Nox lightning being capable of doing the same.

Palpatine being the greatest wielder of Force Lightning in the mythos is debatable.

Edited October 15, 2015 by S_W_LeGenD

[Faardor]

Just a tidbit, but, it might be smart not to use gameplay to justify lore / story stuff, i.e 'force drain attacks' would only be a thing in 'madness' spec.

[PadsterPwns]

Just a tidbit, but, it might be smart not to use gameplay to justify lore / story stuff, i.e 'force drain attacks' would only be a thing in 'madness' spec.

 

I think this is composite Nox, so he has all specs and abilities. I'm pretty sure.

Edited October 15, 2015 by PadsterPwns

[Faardor]

I think this is composite Nox, so he has all specs and abilities. I'm pretty sure.

 

Sure, but its a really bad way to argue that nox is suddenly a 'master in force drain attacks' when its only 2 / 3 attacks that give you life in madness (not counting affliction since that doesn't steal health in lightning)

Edited October 15, 2015 by Faardor

[PadsterPwns]

Sure, but its a really bad way to argue that nox is suddenly a 'master in force drain attacks' when its only 2 / 3 attacks that give you life in madness (not counting affliction since that doesn't steal health in lightning)

 

I agree, to be honest I don't really like threads where player characters go up against other EU characters.

 

On topic: I think Windu takes this, better swordsman, faster, stronger and is either =< than Nox as far as raw force power and command of force power goes, but I don't want to get drawn into this I'm already debating for Fisto in another thread.

Edited October 15, 2015 by PadsterPwns

[rebsten]

A whole lotta Windu fanboism going on. Nox is one of the most powerful characters of the SWTOR characters, and probably the most powerful. He's an expert sorcerer no matter how you view it, and usually sorcerers in SW > Saberist. Actually, they usually go hand in hand. Good luck beating Palpatine or Ragnos in a duel.

 

Edit: Also, Yoda was the best equivalent of a Jedi Sage in the films and he fared a lot better than Windu against Palpatine. The idea that a sorcerer can't duel is silly.

Edited March 25, 2016 by rebsten

[adormitul]

You do not have to necro this people got it. By the way Ragnos was defeated by a 15 year old jedi.

[rebsten]

You do not have to necro this people got it. By the way Ragnos was defeated by a 15 year old jedi.

 

Not in his true body. He died of natural causes. He was undefeated in life, and that's with some of the most powerful lords of the Sith frothing at the mouth back in the day.

[cs_zoltan]

cancur

aids

syphilis

Edited March 26, 2016 by cs_zoltan