Level synch = Revival of SWTOR

[Mikahrtwo]

Well sadly, repeatable content and grinds are a MUST HAVE for MMOs, otherwise people have no incentive to keep playing...so even the lethargic release cadence Bioware was on was better than what we get with 4.0, which is absolutely NO new repeatable content.

 

And yes...Bonethrasher is the first boss in KP...as I said, you couldn't progress.

 

Ehm, sorry, but KOTFE story is VERY repeatable. Or are you now claiming you can do KOTFE only once/account?

 

Since you can now have 40 characters/server (or is it still account), 17 servers....you can repeat it to your hearts delight.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[TUXs]

Ehm, sorry, but KOTFE story is VERY repeatable. Or are you now claiming you can do KOTFE only once/account?

 

Since you can now have 40 characters/server (or is it still account), 17 servers....you can repeat it to your hearts delight.

And now you need to lie about definitions huh? Once per toon is not "repeatable".

[Reno_Tarshil]

And now you need to lie about definitions huh? Once per toon is not "repeatable".

 

Here we go again.

[Quraswren]

It had raids at launch. 2 to be precise. It even launched T2 FP 1 month after release. Along with rest of Karaggas.

And all that in 3 difficulty modes.

What killed it is that *shocker* people dont want to raid, and there was nothing else to do but raiding.

PvP kept it going for a while, but with Ilum debacle that dried up also.

 

Actually it only had one ops at launch, EV and it was bugged. FUll Karagga's Palace didn't come out till January 17, a month later, one boss at the start was kinda dull. That one raid was not enough. Two raids were not enough to be honest and BW relying on story as much as they did was a mistake. Even they said that to an extent. There minds were blown away with how fast gamers consumed the massive amount of story that was at launch.

 

You can read about those blunders here if you like.

SWTOR article at GDC

It will read very similar to how much reliance they have for story this time as well. End game that is so old it's been around since launch or as much as 10 months ago and is worn out. Heroics that have been around since launch and well past worn out to be relied on as a retention mechanic added into a grind in some alliance system to get companions back. There is nothing new end game when it comes to groups. If some new ops at launch along with a ton more story wasn't enough back then. You can bet KotFE story and no new end game content wont be enough either.

 

What killed it is people wanted more end game, that includes operations and this game didn't pull that off. There not doing a real good job this time either.

 

KotFE will have no where near that amount of story content we had at launch. It will be gone so fast it will make their heads spin - AGAIN. Then you will have nothing but a grind to get back companions you have had for 4 years or you will run some really old content thats been around from 1 to 4 years and you'll have to do it down leveled which I dare say no one was asking for that particular game play.

 

Other than the story, none of what BW has done screams good design for player retention in the coming 2 months when story is all gone. Forced down leveling isn't getting some massive positive reviews. No end game group content is a solid negative. Removing achievements to make you grind them again isn't setting well. Removing schematics from crafters after so long is a definite negative as they place them in another crafting skill

 

You talk as if OPs are not important. Sorry but OPs are just a piece of the puzzle that makes the whole game. Start losing those pieces (no new FP, no new OPS, NO new PVP) and the puzzle is "F"ed up.

 

and what do people do with puzzles that are missing pieces? We throw them in the trash.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Quraswren

[Mikahrtwo]

And now you need to lie about definitions huh? Once per toon is not "repeatable".

 

Really dude. You now even have your own made up definition of "repeatable" rofl

[AntiochosTheos]

And now you need to lie about definitions huh? Once per toon is not "repeatable".

 

And you are right with that. Repeatable would entail getting the same quest and reward for the same toon again. Which you cannot do. And therefore, you are right

[Mikahrtwo]

Actually it only had one ops at launch, EV and it was bugged. FUll Karagga's Palace didn't come out till January 17, a month later, one boss at the start was kinda dull. That one raid was not enough. Two raids were not enough to be honest and BW relying on story as much as they did was a mistake. Even they said that to an extent. There minds were blown away with how fast gamers consumed the massive amount of story that was at launch.

 

You can read about those blunders here if you like.

SWTOR article at GDC

It will read very similar to how much reliance they have for story this time as well. End game that is so old it's been around since launch or as much as 10 months ago and is worn out. Heroics that have been around since launch and well past worn out to be relied on as a retention mechanic added into a grind in some alliance system to get companions back. There is nothing new end game when it comes to groups. If some new ops at launch along with a ton more story wasn't enough back then. You can bet KotFE story and no new end game content wont be enough either.

 

What killed it is people wanted more end game, that includes operations and this game didn't pull that off. There not doing a real good job this time either.

 

KotFE will have no where near that amount of story content we had at launch. It will be gone so fast it will make their heads spin - AGAIN. Then you will have nothing but a grind to get back companions you have had for 4 years or you will run some really old content thats been around from 1 to 4 years and you'll have to do it down leveled which I dare say no one was asking for that particular game play.

 

Other than the story, none of what BW has done screams good design for player retention in the coming 2 months when story is all gone. Forced down leveling isn't getting some massive positive reviews. No end game group content is a solid negative. Removing achievements to make you grind them again isn't setting well. Removing schematics from crafters after so long is a definite negative as they place them in another crafting skill

 

You talk as if OPs are not important. Sorry but OPs are just a piece of the puzzle that makes the whole game. Start losing those pieces (no new FP, no new OPS, NO new PVP) and the puzzle is "F"ed up.

 

and what do people do with puzzles that are missing pieces? We throw them in the trash.

 

Wrong, Bonethrasher was available at launch.

 

SWTOR had plenty of endgame content. What was too bad was that it was wrong endgame content. Your revision of history is fascinating.

 

First non group focused content came with Makeb.....1+ year after launch.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Faelandaea]

Deleted. Not going to bother for people who are too lazy to use search. Edited October 13, 2015 by Faelandaea

[Khevar]

First non group focused content came with Makeb.....1 year after launch.

You're a bit of a slick revisionist yourself. Either that or you're carefully redefining words to fit your argument.

 

Are saying that Black Hole was non-group-focused because it has an H4? Or the HK-51 was non-group-focused because it required getting parts from two flashpoints? Or that the 1.2 Legacy changes weren't content?

Edited October 13, 2015 by Khevar

[Mikahrtwo]

You're a bit of a slick revisionist yourself. Either that or you're carefully redefining words to fit your argument.

 

Are saying that Black Hole was non-group-focused because it has an H4? Or the HK-51 was non-group-focused because it required getting parts from two flashpoints? Or that the 1.2 Legacy changes weren't content?

 

Yes, i claim that content that forces you to group is group focused.

 

I really wonder what is so difficult/baffling/not clear about that.

 

Legacy is not content. You could count getting additional quickbar as content then.

 

Funny that you mention 1.2 which was pretty much 100% group focused.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[DarkSaberMaster]

Deleted. Not going to bother for people who are too lazy to use search.

 

Yeah. I would back track, too if I was caught in a blatant lie.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Deleted. Not going to bother for people who are too lazy to use search.

 

If you have proof that could prove others wrong why try to hide it? If anything this hurts your position further.

[YodaUnrea]

I don't like this idea at all. Force the free to players and the prefered palyers to be in Level Sync (if they subsribe they can have the switch option to). While the subs should have an option like a skill button to switch Level sync. CD one day, and it will be not gone if you log out. Skill name should be Sync Me. Im suffered enough to my 3 account full of 60 chars, to be forced down to some nonsense Level system. Edited October 13, 2015 by YodaUnrea

[Khevar]

Yes, i claim that content that forces you to group is group focused.

Do you have some kinda of agenda against grouping?

 

First you deride Bioware from spending resources on Operations, which (according to you) hardly anyone does. Then you talk about being "forced to group" like it's this vast imposition.

 

What exactly are you trying to accomplish here? Bioware has already vastly reduced the pace of end-game updates that existed over the first 2 years of the game. Very little group content has been added for quite some time now -- and hardly any in the near future, too.

 

You should be jumping up and down for joy that those 5%'ers you sneer at so much have nothing new to do.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Khevar

[DarthDymond]

Well sadly, repeatable content and grinds are a MUST HAVE for MMOs, otherwise people have no incentive to keep playing...so even the lethargic release cadence Bioware was on was better than what we get with 4.0, which is absolutely NO new repeatable content.

 

And yes...Bonethrasher is the first boss in KP...as I said, you couldn't progress.

BW is banking on the idea that "repeatable content and grinds or some other viable alternative are a MUST HAVE for MMOs, otherwise people have no incentive to keep playing" and I'm looking forward to seeing the outcome of that experiment - particularly as someone who rarely raids and primarily plays for story.

 

I think the MMO paradigm as it stands isn't the only viable one, so it will be interesting to see whether a TellTale Games approach of an episodic, on-going storyline can provide such a 'viable alternative' to repeatable, max-level group content.

 

At launch, SWTOR under-performed because it lacked both end-game raiding and any alternative (looking for alternatives wasn't even a thing back then - they were actively going for a WoW model but didn't have enough end-game raiding content to support that model). If BW can stick to their announced plan of a new 'Episode' coming out every billing cycle, that might be just the alternative needed. With this game's already established focus on story, this is certainly the right one to attempt the experiment.

Edited October 13, 2015 by DarthDymond

[Jazulfi]

Small thought - given that levelling is ridiculously easy anyway, (even from launch - see all the articles about loads of mmos where players get through content 'too quickly') - we need extra ways to get XP...er...why?

 

Lotro has a token where you can switch off your xp gain so you can stay on level. Presumably SWTOR could apply something similar to teaming up?

 

Also, 'you can level up simply by crafting!!!' Hurrah! I really mean that but...

 

I get that there are other things you have to level - Legacies etc, but...grindy much?

 

As others have pointed out (I'm a bit slow on the uptake) this is def looking like a cheap way of recycling-with-grind to me.

 

Boo

[Philmors]

this.

 

there are multiple upsides to OPTIONAL level sync. there are too many downsides to mandatory one.

 

P.S. the way I used to deal with the issue of liking some planets (cough, Belsavis, cough) but not the others was to run flashpoints and pvp. yes, i know the option is still there for me to use. but.. I don't think I'll be rolling new characters anyways, so the point is moot.

And there are plenty of downsides to optional level sync as well. Either way both things have their upsides and downsides. I think bioware just did the more cheaper/easier option in addition to wanting all content to be viable for your regardless if you out leveled it or not.

[ShredderStatus]

No there are no downsides to optional level sync

Expansions should be addons and addons can have the mandatory level sync but not the old content

[Mikahrtwo]

Do you have some kinda of agenda against grouping?

 

First you deride Bioware from spending resources on Operations, which (according to you) hardly anyone does. Then you talk about being "forced to group" like it's this vast imposition.

 

What exactly are you trying to accomplish here? Bioware has already vastly reduced the pace of end-game updates that existed over the first 2 years of the game. Very little group content has been added for quite some time now -- and hardly any in the near future, too.

 

You should be jumping up and down for joy that those 5%'ers you sneer at so much have nothing new to do.

 

I have agenda against making MMOs super niche/non existant.

 

According to me? rofl according to every possible info on the matter.

 

By Blizzatd <5% raided in vanilla WoW

 

Turbine

 

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

 

Naturally, when things got too tight raids were first to axe for Turbine.

 

Jeremy Gaffney on WS before launch

 

"Leveling is awesome, but it goes by quickly and then people leave. It's even worse if your hardcore players report back to the general public that there is nothing to do and that the game sucks. It's about what you get to as much as it is about getting there. Right now, 50 to 70% of our team is dedicated to elder content. We need a lot of it, and it has to be replayable. A huge chunk of the coolest stuff is happening in the elder content because that's when it has to pay off."

 

WS is in the gutter, naturally, since like SWTOR, it had nothing to do but raids at endgame. Well, except super tedious attunement process to actually get to raids. All cool stuff. All group and hardcore stuff. Cupcake.

 

I am happy. They finally cutting the fat off the game.

 

And Wildstar was in full motion to produce solo as well as casual endgame content to prepare for launch and Gaffney was laid off from WS (like 2/3 of WS staff, including leading peeps)

 

So yeah, next time when you ask about my agenda you have to look past your petty preferences if you want this genre to survive.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Khevar]

I have agenda against making MMOs super niche/non existant.

Is that why you were claiming that all content added to the game until Makeb was "group-focused"?

 

Because, you know, "forced grouping" to run an H4 and a couple of flashpoints?

 

Both solo AND group activity were added to the game during it's first year. But you're willing to write it ALL off as "group-focused" so it "doesn't count". Yeah, I don't buy your argument about you being against "super niche".

 

Between this and your other posts in this thread, it appears that you find fault in many kinds of MMO group content, not just "super niche/non existent".

So yeah, next time when you ask about my agenda you have to look past your petty preferences if you want this genre to survive.

I wonder if you have any idea what my preferences are?

 

Frankly, I kind of doubt it. If you're interested, I'll elaborate.

WS is in the gutter, naturally, since like SWTOR, it had nothing to do but raids at endgame. Well, except super tedious attunement process to actually get to raids. All cool stuff. All group and hardcore stuff. Cupcake.

I've seen many arguments that Wildstar failed because if it's focus on endgame.

 

Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not an industry expert. But did it ever occur to you another possible reason? Perhaps it's just a bad game. I've known many people that enjoy flashpoints and operations in TOR that also play other games with "raids" and "dungeons". None of the people I talked to liked Wildstar.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Khevar

[Erasimus]

I like the idea of level sync and there is definitely at least one upside, it got me to resbub for a bit to see how it works out. This is something I would have liked to see in WoW.

[Faelandaea]

I like the idea of level sync and there is definitely at least one upside, it got me to resbub for a bit to see how it works out. This is something I would have liked to see in WoW.

 

Well the good news is, we're down to less than a week. Sync is definitely here to stay.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Faelandaea

[Pagy]

And there are plenty of downsides to optional level sync as well.

name one

[Soteirian]

Personally, I am dreading the arrival of level-sync. I love the SWTOR story, and I want to really enjoy the experience. However, when I do group missions/flashpoint/heorics at level, I am at the mercy of the group. Often you are grouped with people who just want to level ASAP, and don't really care for the content, so they just keep rushing through and you have no choice but to follow.

 

What I often do is that after my character reaches high enough level, I would go back and solo these group contents, often repeatedly, and take my time savoring the experience, trying different options and really just enjoy the story. Level-sync takes that away from me.

 

As it stands, I have not be able to experience any Ops content because my schedule does not allow me to commit to a large group activity. Even though I have been a subscriber since launch, I have yet been able to see a single Ops content. Level-sync take more of those content from me.

 

I am OK with level-sync if SWTOR creates repeatable solo mode for EVERYTHING. If they do that, then I don't mind. If not, then this could be the end of the game for me (I have abandoned WoW since SWTOR came to the picture. This may be the trigger for me to go back to WoW).

[Mikahrtwo]

Is that why you were claiming that all content added to the game until Makeb was "group-focused"?

 

Because, you know, "forced grouping" to run an H4 and a couple of flashpoints?

 

Both solo AND group activity were added to the game during it's first year. But you're willing to write it ALL off as "group-focused" so it "doesn't count". Yeah, I don't buy your argument about you being against "super niche".

 

Between this and your other posts in this thread, it appears that you find fault in many kinds of MMO group content, not just "super niche/non existent".

 

I wonder if you have any idea what my preferences are?

 

Frankly, I kind of doubt it. If you're interested, I'll elaborate.

 

I've seen many arguments that Wildstar failed because if it's focus on endgame.

 

Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not an industry expert. But did it ever occur to you another possible reason? Perhaps it's just a bad game. I've known many people that enjoy flashpoints and operations in TOR that also play other games with "raids" and "dungeons". None of the people I talked to liked Wildstar.

 

When you cannot finish the content unless you group its group focused. Its simple. I ask again, whats so baffling about it?

 

Forced grouping is forced grouping, it means you are forced to group. I know you have very skewed view on it and somehow if content forces you to group its not group focused rofl

 

You shown pretty clear what your preferences are. Youre not some mysterious entity.

 

And for WS, same as SWTOR, many people made i to endgame and then quit because there was JUST raiding involved (raid or prepare to raid). This isnt about people that quit before level 10.

 

You are definitely not industry expert, and thats for the best. Your anecdotal evidence is jus that anecdotal.

 

Straight from developers mouth:

 

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

 

And LOTRO was same as SWTOR and WS, WoW clone with group focused endgame. Yes, i played it too for couple of years.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Mikahrtwo