Level synch = Revival of SWTOR

[AntiochosTheos]

After all the arguments, back and forth: Does anyone actually know if this level synch was ever requested by anyone? Or if this feature was ever remotely mentioned before?

 

I consider it to be a very dramatic (good/bad) change to how the game works, and feel this is really coming out of the blue.

[Karkais]

But by design an MMO is supposed to be "you level into higher content". Like I said, you have literally dozens upon dozens of single player games on your computer for god-mode.

No its not. Many of them are, but it doesn't HAVE to apply. The idea of a MMO is based on playing with other players. Its certainly not originally meant to be a singleplayer level grind. Levels are also not the core mechanic of a RPG. Levels are a game mechanic, not the sole reason for a MMO games existence. There are great many other things in MMOs that appeal to players. And I am quite frankly fed up with mmo designers copying each other ad infinitum.

 

After all the arguments, back and forth: Does anyone actually know if this level synch was ever requested by anyone? Or if this feature was ever remotely mentioned before?

I dont recall ever seeing anything related to it beforehand.

 

I consider it to be a very dramatic (good/bad) change to how the game works, and feel this is really coming out of the blue.

Just like most changes in 4.0.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Karkais

[Faelandaea]

After all the arguments, back and forth: Does anyone actually know if this level synch was ever requested by anyone? Or if this feature was ever remotely mentioned before?

 

I consider it to be a very dramatic (good/bad) change to how the game works, and feel this is really coming out of the blue.

 

I remembered starting a couple of threads myself over a year or so ago, requesting a Sync system. I know others did as well. When i submitted mine it was in the feedback/suggestions area. And it's not dramatic at all. People are just making it out to be.

[Mikahrtwo]

After all the arguments, back and forth: Does anyone actually know if this level synch was ever requested by anyone? Or if this feature was ever remotely mentioned before?

 

I consider it to be a very dramatic (good/bad) change to how the game works, and feel this is really coming out of the blue.

 

The success of level sync in other games in their respected variants cannot just be shunned aside. Also, their own experience with limited level sync (KDY anyone).

 

It solves one of main faults of themepark (level based) MMOs and obsoletion of 99% of game the moment you hit max level.

 

Just look at WoW and 90 empty levels of content (as most extreme case). they might just erase all that and noone would eevn notice lol

 

It also opens up possibility of adding new content on old worlds that is accessible to everyone on that world without much hassle.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Max_Killjoy]

I remembered starting a couple of threads myself over a year or so ago, requesting a Sync system. I know others did as well. When i submitted mine it was in the feedback/suggestions area. And it's not dramatic at all. People are just making it out to be.

 

Characters are dragged back into "agro status" when traveling to most of the game's content, and are temporarily stripped of the benefits of time and effort spent on the game -- and for a decent swath of the playerbase (unless one wishes to simply dismiss all those posters as liars), to absolutely no benefit whatsoever, or to no benefit that's worth that price.

 

That's a major change.

[Quraswren]

Yeah, because losing 6+m subs in 3 months is the way to go....And guess what...they had dungeons and raids, gear grinds and everything.

 

Once you figure out raids and gear grinds dont keep people around (they never did really) any more youll get to move beyond 2005.

and that was a problem. Relying to much on raids but they were not stupid enough to not put them in all together. They just put to much weight on them. Same thing SWTOR is doing with story and no new end game content other than a companion grind to get back what you had for 4 years.

Its 2015 now.

"Solid staple game mechanics and features" made vast majority opt out of SWTOR rofl. Youre quite right about that. You can always choose not to play at all and that was preferred choice for SWTOR players since launch.

Thats why I say you have to have bits from all the areas, you have to have new ops, new FP, new story. It needs all three. Leaving out 2/3 of them doesn't scream BW has a handle on things. Adding in down leveling to make 4 year old content into a grind for companions can't take the place of that no matter how much BW wants you to grind. Remoinds me of MoP and the grind that started there. The backlash was big Blizzard had no choice but to change it. down leveling I think will fall down the same path but the difference here is SWTOR can't handle the loss WOW did till they can fix it.

After all the arguments, back and forth: Does anyone actually know if this level synch was ever requested by anyone? Or if this feature was ever remotely mentioned before?

 

I consider it to be a very dramatic (good/bad) change to how the game works, and feel this is really coming out of the blue.

 

No, down leveling was never requested. What gamers actually requested was a mentoring system that allowed them to be with a friend and the friend not lose experience for grouping with a high level person.

 

BW took that simple requested and granted that wish but like the evil genie, they warped it into something you wish you had never asked for in the first place.

 

A mandatory down leveling to planet levels all the time, every time, everyday. No, that was not a feature being requested.

[EnkiduNineEight]

I remembered starting a couple of threads myself over a year or so ago, requesting a Sync system. I know others did as well. When i submitted mine it was in the feedback/suggestions area. And it's not dramatic at all. People are just making it out to be.

 

Links or you are lying.

 

I searched the suggestions forum, you got nothing prior to 09/28/2015. (http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=135687)

 

I used your character link to view your statistics and see al the threads you have started:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=135688

 

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Faelandaea 09.30.2015 09:57 PM General Discussion

 

[spoilers] Companion Fashion in KotFE? Still planned? ( 1 2)

Faelandaea 09.26.2015 01:25 AM General Discussion

 

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So you've started a grand total of two threads. Now, certainly maybe you posted it with a different account.

 

So, As you are requesting/Supporting a proposed change to an existing system, burden of proof resides in your hands.

 

Please to be showing us these threads you started over a year ago requesting addition of level scaling.

 

For Reference and to preclude some claim that they 'archived threads or don't search that far back.......

 

Underworld Trading - Reduce rate of companion gift missions

EnkiduNineEight 02.18.2012 01:00 PM Suggestions

 

My first started thread was from 2012, in the suggestions forum, where I spent the majority of time, for the longest time, any time I visited the community because frankly I have found my enjoyment of the game is greater the further I stay away from the main forums areas.

 

So... put up or shut up.

[Mikahrtwo]

and that was a problem. Relying to much on raids but they were not stupid enough to not put them in all together. They just put to much weight on them. Same thing SWTOR is doing with story and no new end game content other than a companion grind to get back what you had for 4 years.

 

Thats why I say you have to have bits from all the areas, you have to have new ops, new FP, new story. It needs all three. Leaving out 2/3 of them doesn't scream BW has a handle on things. Adding in down leveling to make 4 year old content into a grind for companions can't take the place of that no matter how much BW wants you to grind. Remoinds me of MoP and the grind that started there. The backlash was big Blizzard had no choice but to change it. down leveling I think will fall down the same path but the difference here is SWTOR can't handle the loss WOW did till they can fix it.

 

 

No, down leveling was never requested. What gamers actually requested was a mentoring system that allowed them to be with a friend and the friend not lose experience for grouping with a high level person.

 

BW took that simple requested and granted that wish but like the evil genie, they warped it into something you wish you had never asked for in the first place.

 

A mandatory down leveling to planet levels all the time, every time, everyday. No, that was not a feature being requested.

 

Very few people play WoW for story and very few people play SWTOR for raids.

 

No, you DONT have to have "bits of everything" because certain population is so insignificant (raiders <5%) that you are better off doing more for other >95%. LOTRO has nicely shown you can ditch raids and be better off.

 

Its VERY easy math:

 

keeping 95% for single month more equals keeping 5% for 19 months. Not to metion that those 5% are very high maitenance and their goals crudely interfere with goals of other 95%

 

What grind for companions rofl They are LESSENING companion grind as you dont have to farm raids to equip em any more.

 

Requested by whom? So they cant put anything ingame unless you request it and approve it? Really? rofl

 

>90% of people NEVER participate in forums and certain group is disproportionally represented in the forums. Not to mention this group is insignificant, but very loud. So YOU represent noone but yourself. Needs of many outweigh needs of VERY few.

 

BW looked at other successful 2015 practices instead of ancient 2005 practices they looked up until now, that actually drove SWTOR to where it was. They even looked at *gasp* their own metrics from past 4 years.

 

because guess what: Blizzard doesnt have magic MMO formula, they were at a right place at a right time with right product and a lot of luck involved. In fact their formula is so worn out (same formula SWTOR used until now) that it isnt working for WoW any more let alone any WoW clone.

 

SWTOR will either play to its strenghts (which is story) or continue to wither and die. And no couple of you "loyal" followers aint enough to sustain it.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[DarthDymond]

No, you DONT have to have "bits of everything" because certain population is so insignificant (raiders <5%) that you are better off doing more for other >95%. LOTRO has nicely shown you can ditch raids and be better off.

 

Its VERY easy math:

 

keeping 95% for single month more equals keeping 5% for 19 months. Not to metion that those 5% are very high maitenance and their goals crudely interfere with goals of other 95%

Problem with that is there is no homogeneous "95%" that's doing the same thing - in this MMO or any other. The idea that Raiders or PVPers or Lore fans or whatever are insignificant because they 'only' constitute 5% or whatever is flawed.

 

Even if we accept that only 5% of players are raiding, it doesn't follow that the other 95% are doing the same other activity and subsidizing only the raiders. That thinking makes it seem that:

• 5% does [A]
  
• 95% does
  
• therefore it would be better if [A] went away so resources can go to , which way more people enjoy.
  

 

but in an MMO you actually have something like:

• 5% does [A]
  
• 15% does
  
• 8% does [C]
  
• 13% does [D]
  
• 2% does [E]
  
• 10%...
  

etc, etc, etc, with things like PVP, crafting, collecting achievements, leveling alts, playing minigames, etc., filling in all these many different little niches. Moreover, most players dabble in three or four of them, so a single player might fall into the percentage that does raiding, and the percentage that does PVP, and the percentage that decorates player housing.

 

If you start pruning out everything that falls below a certain threshold, even what may seem like a reasonable number like 20%, you're going to end up alienating a lot more than just 20% of you playerbase, you're going to alienate more like 80% (if not 100%) of it.

 

You don't have a monolithic majority subsidizing a minority, you have a collection of different minorities all subsidizing each other so that there's enough resources to support any/all of them.

Edited October 13, 2015 by DarthDymond

[TUXs]

Problem with that is there is no homogeneous "95%" that's doing the same thing - in this MMO or any other. The idea that Raiders or PVPers or Lore fans or whatever are insignificant because they 'only' constitute 5% or whatever is flawed.

 

Even if we accept that only 5% of players are raiding, it doesn't follow that the other 95% are doing the same other activity and subsidizing only the raiders. That thinking makes it seem that:

• 5% does [A]
  
• 95% does
  
• therefore it would be better if [A] went away so resources can go to , which way more people enjoy.
  

 

but in an MMO you actually have something like:

• 5% does [A]
  
• 15% does
  
• 8% does [C]
  
• 13% does [D]
  
• 2% does [E]
  
• 10%...
  

etc, etc, etc, with things like PVP, crafting, collecting achievements, leveling alts, playing minigames, etc., filling in all these may different little niches. Moreover, most players dabble in three or four of them, so a single player might fall into the percentage that does raiding, and the percentage that does PVP and the percentage that decorates player housing.

 

If you start pruning out everything that falls below a certain threshold, even what may seem like a reasonable number like 20%, you're going to end up alienating a lot more than just 20% of you playerbase, you're going to alienate more like 80% (if not 100%) of it.

 

You don't have a monolithic majority subsidizing a minority, you have a collection of different minorities all subsidizing each other so that there's enough resources to support any/all of them.

 

One of the best posts I've ever read DD...fantastic work!!!

[Quraswren]

Problem with that is there is no homogeneous "95%" that's doing the same thing - in this MMO or any other. The idea that Raiders or PVPers or Lore fans or whatever are insignificant because they 'only' constitute 5% or whatever is flawed.

 

Even if we accept that only 5% of players are raiding, it doesn't follow that the other 95% are doing the same other activity and subsidizing only the raiders. That thinking makes it seem that:

• 5% does [A]
  
• 95% does
  
• therefore it would be better if [A] went away so resources can go to , which way more people enjoy.
  

 

but in an MMO you actually have something like:

• 5% does [A]
  
• 15% does
  
• 8% does [C]
  
• 13% does [D]
  
• 2% does [E]
  
• 10%...
  

etc, etc, etc, with things like PVP, crafting, collecting achievements, leveling alts, playing minigames, etc., filling in all these may different little niches. Moreover, most players dabble in three or four of them, so a single player might fall into the percentage that does raiding, and the percentage that does PVP and the percentage that decorates player housing.

 

If you start pruning out everything that falls below a certain threshold, even what may seem like a reasonable number like 20%, you're going to end up alienating a lot more than just 20% of you playerbase, you're going to alienate more like 80% (if not 100%) of it.

 

You don't have a monolithic majority subsidizing a minority, you have a collection of different minorities all subsidizing each other so that there's enough resources to support any/all of them.

 

Well said about all the "tidbits".

[DawnAskham]

Some people don't get AND, everything to them is OR.

 

They cannot fathom that the game is supported by people who like X AND Y AND Z, it must be X OR Y OR Z.

 

This is the same type that sees everything as black or white, rather than shades or grey or a large spectrum of colors.

[Mikahrtwo]

Problem with that is there is no homogeneous "95%" that's doing the same thing - in this MMO or any other. The idea that Raiders or PVPers or Lore fans or whatever are insignificant because they 'only' constitute 5% or whatever is flawed.

 

Even if we accept that only 5% of players are raiding, it doesn't follow that the other 95% are doing the same other activity and subsidizing only the raiders. That thinking makes it seem that:

• 5% does [A]
  
• 95% does
  
• therefore it would be better if [A] went away so resources can go to , which way more people enjoy.
  

 

but in an MMO you actually have something like:

• 5% does [A]
  
• 15% does
  
• 8% does [C]
  
• 13% does [D]
  
• 2% does [E]
  
• 10%...
  

etc, etc, etc, with things like PVP, crafting, collecting achievements, leveling alts, playing minigames, etc., filling in all these many different little niches. Moreover, most players dabble in three or four of them, so a single player might fall into the percentage that does raiding, and the percentage that does PVP, and the percentage that decorates player housing.

 

If you start pruning out everything that falls below a certain threshold, even what may seem like a reasonable number like 20%, you're going to end up alienating a lot more than just 20% of you playerbase, you're going to alienate more like 80% (if not 100%) of it.

 

You don't have a monolithic majority subsidizing a minority, you have a collection of different minorities all subsidizing each other so that there's enough resources to support any/all of them.

 

What a bunch of nonsense. We are talking about SPECIFIC thing that has proven to be resource hog on devs for no-very small return aka raiding.

 

Not having raiding never hurt any MMO rofl. But shoving everything in raiding, WoW like, hurt every game that tried it, including SWTOR.

 

The list is

 

raiding <5%

everything else >95% (yes >95% because raiders play it too)

 

Dev hours are finite. If they work on something for 5% (raids) they arent working on something for 95% (anything else). Its THAT simple.

 

And you noticed quite good: even without raids part of raiders would stay and only part of those <5% would leave.

 

And yes, vast majority was subsidizing small minority for very long time, thats why these games started to fail.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

 

And LOTRO was all about grouping and mainly raiding just like SWTOR in most of past 4 years.

 

You dont have to have "bits and tidbits of everything" as some things are just not significant enough to matter. Like raids.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[TUXs]

What a bunch of nonsense. We are talking about SPECIFIC thing that has proven to be resource hog on devs for no-very small return aka raiding.

 

Not having raiding never hurt any MMO rofl.

You're absolutely making stuff up now. Lack of raids hurt THIS game at launch ffs.

[Jazulfi]

Very few people play WoW for story and very few people play SWTOR for raids.

 

No, you DONT have to have "bits of everything" because certain population is so insignificant (raiders <5%) that you are better off doing more for other >95%. LOTRO has nicely shown you can ditch raids and be better off.

.

 

Actually, I think players DO play WoW for story, and when they focussed on it in WotLK, they did it beautifully and the player-base loved it. WoW is losing players because WoD was boring as hell because of stupid Garrisons.

 

I also play LotRO and it too has been haemorrhaging players, leading to the server merge that's going on at the moment. It's admittedly for several reasons but lots of players were generally very disappointed in the loss of raids, don't like Helm's Deep very much because of it, don't like the Epic Battles much, and aren't very happy about the next update because there are no *new* raids and yet another epic battle.

 

I've said this elsewhere, but I believe WoW has dominated the mmo scene for such a long time precisely because it catered to all kinds of players, and offered a wide variety of things to do, even linking achievements to them, to give them more meaning to players.

 

People don't *just* want to level. Sometimes you've had an annoying day at the office and fishing for that stupid pet is just what your after. Or maybe you've had a few beers, you're not really up to combat, but some exploring/achievement running around is perfect. Maybe you hate combat, but like spending your time in a big open fantasy world and you really like crafting.

 

I just don't understand what the problem is - players asking for an optional sync system aren't doing so to f**k up your day, and they don't want to steal your precious (potential) stuffs, they just want to play the game differently from you - except for the times when they want the same thing!

 

Other mmos have mentoring systems. They also have low level zones where certain areas are more dangerous for low level players (Secret World does this for e.g). FFS WoW doesn't even have loading screens between zones - you quickly realise which places you can't go - so if BW wanted to add in new high level content to existing low level planets, I don't see why they can't make that work?

 

I think mmos, in order to survive (and perhaps more importantly for their players - stay vibrant, engaging and interesting places to 'live') they DO have to offer 'bits of everything' to all kinds of players. I still talk with gaming friends about the daft things we did in WoW years ago - certainly don't chat about the times we wandered about killing evenly spaced bears for hours.

 

Editing: all over the place because I can't write, spell or do grammar.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Jazulfi

[DarkSaberMaster]

Links or you are lying.

 

I searched the suggestions forum, you got nothing prior to 09/28/2015. (http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=135687)

 

I used your character link to view your statistics and see al the threads you have started:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=135688

 

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Legacy Bank Credit Storage ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page)

Faelandaea 09.30.2015 09:57 PM General Discussion

 

[spoilers] Companion Fashion in KotFE? Still planned? ( 1 2)

Faelandaea 09.26.2015 01:25 AM General Discussion

 

Showing results 1 to 2 of 2

Search took 0.01 seconds.

 

So you've started a grand total of two threads. Now, certainly maybe you posted it with a different account.

 

So, As you are requesting/Supporting a proposed change to an existing system, burden of proof resides in your hands.

 

Please to be showing us these threads you started over a year ago requesting addition of level scaling.

 

For Reference and to preclude some claim that they 'archived threads or don't search that far back.......

 

Underworld Trading - Reduce rate of companion gift missions

EnkiduNineEight 02.18.2012 01:00 PM Suggestions

 

My first started thread was from 2012, in the suggestions forum, where I spent the majority of time, for the longest time, any time I visited the community because frankly I have found my enjoyment of the game is greater the further I stay away from the main forums areas.

 

So... put up or shut up.

 

Now that, my friend, is pure ownage.

[TUXs]

I remembered starting a couple of threads myself over a year or so ago, requesting a Sync system. I know others did as well. When i submitted mine it was in the feedback/suggestions area. And it's not dramatic at all. People are just making it out to be.

You know, the problem with lying about something this easily verifiable is, you're going to get caught...

[Reno_Tarshil]

Problem with that is there is no homogeneous "95%" that's doing the same thing - in this MMO or any other. The idea that Raiders or PVPers or Lore fans or whatever are insignificant because they 'only' constitute 5% or whatever is flawed.

 

Even if we accept that only 5% of players are raiding, it doesn't follow that the other 95% are doing the same other activity and subsidizing only the raiders. That thinking makes it seem that:

• 5% does [A]
  
• 95% does
  
• therefore it would be better if [A] went away so resources can go to , which way more people enjoy.
  

 

but in an MMO you actually have something like:

• 5% does [A]
  
• 15% does
  
• 8% does [C]
  
• 13% does [D]
  
• 2% does [E]
  
• 10%...
  

etc, etc, etc, with things like PVP, crafting, collecting achievements, leveling alts, playing minigames, etc., filling in all these many different little niches. Moreover, most players dabble in three or four of them, so a single player might fall into the percentage that does raiding, and the percentage that does PVP, and the percentage that decorates player housing.

 

If you start pruning out everything that falls below a certain threshold, even what may seem like a reasonable number like 20%, you're going to end up alienating a lot more than just 20% of you playerbase, you're going to alienate more like 80% (if not 100%) of it.

 

You don't have a monolithic majority subsidizing a minority, you have a collection of different minorities all subsidizing each other so that there's enough resources to support any/all of them.

 

I like this post, this is a nice post.

[DarkSaberMaster]

You know, the problem with lying about something this easily verifiable is, you're going to get caught...

 

Pretty much.

[Mikahrtwo]

You're absolutely making stuff up now. Lack of raids hurt THIS game at launch ffs.

 

It had raids at launch. 2 to be precise. It even launched T2 FP 1 month after release. Along with rest of Karaggas.

 

And in no less than 3 difficulty modes.

 

What killed it is that *shocker* people dont want to raid, and there was nothing else to do BUT raiding.

 

PvP kept it going for a while, but with Ilum debacle that dried up also VERY fast.

 

Your memory is lacking.

 

People were VERY dissapointed with what Star Wars game offered because they never pictured theselves farming same raid boss for gear in SW game. BW (supposedly) KOTOR series even.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[AntiochosTheos]

What killed it is that *shocker* people dont want to raid, and there was nothing else to do but raiding.

 

PvP kept it going for a while, but with Ilum debacle that dried up also VERY fast.

 

Yeah I was very disappointed when at release the endgame was the same as with WOW and entailed a massive gear grind. I was so hoping for them to institute something different than raids as the final stage.

 

It seems to me now they are trying to do this with level synch. But after 4 years it seem kinda late...

[TUXs]

It had raids at launch. 2 to be precise. It even launched T2 FP 1 month after release. Along with rest of Karaggas.

 

And in no less than 3 difficulty modes.

 

What killed it is that *shocker* people dont want to raid, and there was nothing else to do BUT raiding.

 

PvP kept it going for a while, but with Ilum debacle that dried up also VERY fast.

 

Your memory is lacking.

 

People were VERY dissapointed with what Star Wars game offered because they never pictured theselves farming same raid boss for gear in SW game.

EV was the only Op available at launch. KP was there, but you couldn't actually progress in it until 1.1.

 

People were disappointed with the lack of "end game content"...which encompasses a number of various things.

[Mikahrtwo]

EV was the only Op available at launch. KP was there, but you couldn't actually progress in it until 1.1.

 

People were disappointed with the lack of "end game content"...which encompasses a number of various things.

 

Yes, people were dissapointed only raiding/gear grind was available at endgame. Bonetrasher was available since launch.

 

By your theory, game was supposed to thrive because they added group content regularly (T2 FPs, rest of Karaggas after 1 month, NM for Karagga soon after)

 

guess what: it didnt stick. In fact it failed pretty spectacularly.

 

And now you demand to do it all over again. lol

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[TUXs]

Yes, people were dissapointed only raiding/gear grind was available at endgame. Bonetrasher was available since launch.

 

By your theory, game was supposed to thrive because they added group content regularly (T2 FPs, rest of Karaggas after 1 month, NM for Karagga soon after)

 

guess what: it didnt stick. In fact it failed pretty spectacularly.

 

And now you demand to do it all over again. lol

Well sadly, repeatable content and grinds are a MUST HAVE for MMOs, otherwise people have no incentive to keep playing...so even the lethargic release cadence Bioware was on was better than what we get with 4.0, which is absolutely NO new repeatable content.

 

And yes...Bonethrasher is the first boss in KP...as I said, you couldn't progress.

Edited October 13, 2015 by TUXs

[Reno_Tarshil]

Well sadly, repeatable content and grinds are a MUST HAVE for MMOs, otherwise people have no incentive to keep playing...so even the lethargic release cadence Bioware was on was better than what we get with 4.0, which is absolutely NO new repeatable content.

 

And yes...Bonethrasher is the first boss in KP...as I said, you couldn't progress.

 

An Operation with at least 1 killable boss still counts as an operation. So there were 2 at launch. Think of it as BW delaying the release of boss wings. WoW did it with LFR where you could only go in and kill the first few bosses of a new raid and then 2 weeks later more bosses unlocked and so on.