Level synch = death of SWTOR

[Quraswren]

You are absolutely correct, it is a leveling game.

Damn Son, we agree! WOOT!

 

After a set point, mobs no longer give you XP. If you're still farming these mobs for free, what's the bad about farming these mobs when they award XP at your current level, whether that's at level, or 60? Is it because fighting them at level is too hard? That's understandable, there was a guy on DK tonight that couldn't beat his class quest end boss because he refused to gear his comp due to upcoming changes. He did, however, expect someone to come help him. I mean, if this is the case, I can understand why some people leech their way through a few KDYs to get some levels on class missions.

 

I'm still going to be able to force choke/force stasis, lightning storm/chain lightning mobs, nothing has changed, except how hard they hit, but considering the mobs I'm hitting, the effects, I expect will be similar if not the same. I linked the entirety of the Level sync portion of the blog earlier in this thread, it clearly stated that we're going to keep our skills, active and passive, so the only conclusion I'm left with is "It's going to be too hard for some people to deal with". I have my own concerns with the system, but they involve class missions that require you to run through H4 areas to get to your quest entrance, BH and SI Chapter 2 beginnings come to mind. I'm curious how they're going to handle that, but, I'm also not overly concerned about it. I have run through the area behind the wall at level about 20 times to get that datacron back there. I'm sure I can repeat that performance for my class missions.

Thats just it. Nothing is wrong with it. It's perfectly fine as an option to do that. I however would keep moving up through the planets. I would not stay back and ground out mobs given I do like the story of SW. But nothing wrong with what you said as just another optional leveling path. Just like you want to level all teh way in KDY? Have at it. Many think that a terrible idea but were not trying to remove it as an option.

 

Thats why most want this down leveling thing as optional. None of it's going to be hard, its just going to be less interesting. There is nothing wrong with your example but there is also nothing wrong in not enjoying it either and being quite happy over leveled in whatever content their doing then moving on and finishing up the stories.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren

[ZavienUK]

No, the issues I talk about are because you require the system to be optional rather than forced.

 

I know that, but they have only become an issue because of this new system. The game was just fine before.

[kodrac]

Wow ignored again i dont think he is even trying to have a conversation.

 

It's the tin-foil hat. It must be blocking your "transmissions".

[robertthebard]

No your either completely misunderstanding, or choosing to do so. I was responding to your post which was talking about progression as being something you have to be doing all the time or your playing the game wrong. At that point the discussion was nothing to do with level sync.

 

Just because people do things that aren't directly progressing their character all the time doesn't mean they never progress their character. Indeed a lot of what this is about is because people like going back after progressing and enjoying that previous progression in ways that doesn't necessarily progress them further. So of course they don't want that taken away.

 

I'll give you a couple of examples:

 

Somebody who is level 40 rp's on a level 20 planet. While they are RPing they are not progressing their character in the traditional sense of the word, but they are enjoying the game. If level sync if forced on them, their play experience will be affected.

 

Somebody who is level 60 likes to go back and solo that level 50 heroic. While soloing that heroic they are not progressing their character in the traditional sense of the word. If level sync is forced on them, their ability to do this will be affected.

 

So while people play in ways that arn't strictly progressing their character, that doesn't mean they want to lose their existing progression.

 

It's interesting to note that I'm not sure you know what you're replying to. I quoted you quoting someone else to ask this question. It's also interesting to note that, with the level cap increase incoming at the same time, that person soloing that 50 heroic will get full xp for doing it, thusly not only preserving their current progression, but advancing it as well, until they hit the new cap, anyway. They will be in there with the exact same skill set they had previously, barring any changes made to the base classes, sync notwithstanding.

[Kiesu]

Well in my opinion (and yes I know already you disagree) If they can't implement it properly, then they shouldn't implement it at all. Any of these issues you talk about are because of this new system. While this system has the potential to bring improvements, the game was just fine before.

I know that, but they have only become an issue because of this new system. The game was just fine before.

Yea. The system was totally flawless before amirite

ohwait it wasnt

That means... they shouldnt have made the previous system either aaaaaaah mind blown

 

Just because it was fine for you before doesnt mean it was flawless or non-issue for anyone. Just because you dont like new system doesnt mean it doesnt "work properly" either. It works just as well as before, just differently

Edited October 3, 2015 by Kiesu

[robertthebard]

Did you actually read? He said "As long as they're not actively depriving others of enjoyment of the game". Griefing by it's very definition is depriving others of enjoyment. Or to put it another way, one person having fun at another's expense.

 

Either you didn't bother to read because you were too eager to hit reply so you could make your snarky comment, or your just trolling. Which is it?

 

...and I'll ask you the same question I asked Max: You do understand what griefing means, yes? You do understand that, by the very definition, they are depriving some one else of enjoyment of the game, or it wouldn't be griefing, right?

[-Spc]

Also what i don't understand is why do we have a test server ?

For testing and reporting bugs ? maybe ? i guess not ?

 

Because currently subscribers can not access it, which makes it totally useless and after the bugs are released in 4.0 bioware will start banning people for doing stuff that they didn't know it was a bug.

 

World boss on alderaan is level 35 and level sync gives you level 32, so even if you group up with 15 people it will be very hard to kill world boss.

[Quraswren]

Here's the reality of the situation: Making it a toggle will not please everyone, just you and your friends. There are people here that won't care, one way or the other, by definition, they are not pleased, because they don't care, and there are people that have insisted that if it's in game at all, it should be mandatory, making it a toggle will not please them at all either. This is the reality of the situation, different strokes for different folks. Your vision of what should make everyone happy only works in one place, your head. Out here, where there are very real people with very different opinions your way may or may not make them happy. This is the reality of the situation.

 

I'm not sure I follow your logic since if it was optional:

 

One who like down leveling can use it.

 

Don't like - Don't use it.

 

Don't care. Simply don't care either way. May use it or not depending on the situation or mood.

 

Now, unless you're talking about a group that thinks everyone must play the way they do, Those 3 groups covers the different sides to this rather well. All getting what they want in some way.

 

If again you're talking abut a group that think we should all play the same well then I guess we do have a problem but it's not solved or made worse buy a down leveling forced mechanic or being optional. That particular group just wont survive.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren

[SelinaH]

Since you cant pick up these missions before achieving required hard lvlcap, downscaling these mobs and areas to general planet level actually wouldnt effect them in any way.

Wouldn't this make the Bonus Series considerably easier than it is now? That kind of defeats the purpose of scaling in order to maintain challenge, which a number of people are touting as one of the benefits of level sync.

OR having sync bind to area works just as well. We just solved how to make bonus series, hk parts, dread seed and GSI missions work, everyone clap!

We've had no indication from the devs that area sync is a likely or feasible solution. If it is, surely scaling can then be limited to other discrete map areas, such as Heroic areas or World Boss spawn points, rather than being enforced planetwide.

[Kiesu]

Also what i don't understand is why do we have a test server ?

For testing and reporting bugs ? maybe ? i guess not ?

Half of the time it has been invitational, especially recently.

[ZavienUK]

This right here is the one common theme to every complaint thread. Is it really that difficult to do things as they're designed/intended?

 

EDIT: difficult might be the wrong choice of wording but tiredness has started to settle in.

 

Does the answer to that question really matter? It's about personal preference. Some people like to be challenged, some people like thing's to be easy mode, some people perhaps don't have the skill level. And other people like to mix it up. I'd fall into the category. I love challenging content sometimes, but other times I've had a stressful day and I just want some easy mode.

 

There is also the issues raised much earlier in the thread, that for certain things, for example kill achievements, this change doesn't make any more difficult per say, just more tedious. Making it taking longer to kill something, but still without any chance of failure, doesn't make it more challenging, just more tedious. That was exactly what we saw in the stream.

 

I also mentioned earlier in this thread, that if this was optional, they would then be able to balance the level sync to be genuinely challenging rather than the awkward balance they are going to have to go for here. This seems a clumsy solution, we have already got a poster who talks about not being able do content at level, so if the sync in mandetory they can't make it any more challenging. If people retained the ability to over-level content if they want to, all options are retained, and indeed it can be made more challenging at level.

 

In short making this optional means people can do things as they are designed if they want to, but they are not forced to if for whatever reason they don't want or can't do. Making it mandatory removes one of those options.

[Quraswren]

Also what i don't understand is why do we have a test server ?

For testing and reporting bugs ? maybe ? i guess not ?

 

Because currently subscribers can not access it, which makes it totally useless and after the bugs are released in 4.0 bioware will start banning people for doing stuff that they didn't know it was a bug.

 

World boss on alderaan is level 35 and level sync gives you level 32, so even if you group up with 15 people it will be very hard to kill world boss.

 

This was all done by invitation and closed Beta testing plus internal testing.

 

If your guild didn't get an invite or you didn't get one. There was no way to sign up this go around. No open PTR for this.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren

[-Spc]

We've had no indication from the devs that area sync is a likely or feasible solution. If it is, surely scaling can then be limited to other discrete map areas, such as Heroic areas or World Boss spawn points, rather than being enforced planetwide.

Eric told us it's planet wide debuff not just heroic area debuff, so it applies to whole planet, instances included.

 

This was all done by invitation and closed Beta testing plus internal testing.

 

If your guild didn't get an invite or you didn't get one. There was no way to sign up this go around. No open PTR for this.

Like i said, test server is useless if people can't test stuff out.

In eve online, EVERYONE can test anything they want, test server will never close down for public use, and this is how it should work with all test servers.

People then report problems / bugs and they get fixed before the expansion comes out.

Edited October 3, 2015 by -Spc

[Transairion]

I'll just say this: You're friends are not the entire playerbase. For you personally, sure it's what you revolve around when playing, but it's not empirical data.

 

 

I never said I only asked my friends, I said I asked them as well as general chat and basically everyone and any who'd answer me. Anyone ingame who'd reply about it.

 

 

A guild of RPers isn't gonna answer the same as a guild of PvP, nor a guild of PvE's so I'm not sure what your point is.

 

 

Trying to convince me that 75% of Gen Chat on Fleet saying "I hate this change!" isn't fair data is kinda BS though. Given how many servers have been squashed into the Harbinger, I'd say it's about as a majority of opinions as one could get asking that chat.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Transairion

[Kiesu]

Wouldn't this make the Bonus Series considerably easier than it is now? That kind of defeats the purpose of scaling in order to maintain challenge, which a number of people are touting as one of the benefits of level sync.

It was never about the "challenge level". Bonus missions basically unlocked after x amount of time as the game assumes you have done quests up to point X at that point. The dialog of NPCs suggest time has passed from when you did the normal planet quest and quotes things you have done meanwhile, hence them become unlockable later and having higher level since you return to them later. Nothing to do with challenge, the stories just are positioned differently game storytime wise.

 

We've had no indication from the devs that area sync is a likely or feasible solution. If it is, surely scaling can then be limited to other discrete map areas, such as Heroic areas or World Boss spawn points, rather than being enforced planetwide.

Had no indication against it either. Its called speculation.

[Quraswren]

Like i said, test server is useless if people can't test stuff out.

In eve online, EVERYONE can test anything they want, test server will never close down for public use, and this is how it should work with all test servers.

 

Eve doesn't carry the story that this one does either. You now, the whole no spoilers thing.

 

It's getting looked at, just not by the entire player base or even those that actively seek the PTR when they can. Though if you do hit the PTR a lot, it might help. I think guild activity helps get in invitation.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren

[robertthebard]

I'm not sure I follow your logic since if it was optional:

 

One who like down leveling can use it.

 

Don't like - Don't use it.

 

Don't care. Simply don't care either way. May use it or not depending on the situation or mood.

 

Now, unless you're talking about a group that thinks everyone must play the way they do, Those 3 groups covers the different sides to this rather well. All getting what they want in some way.

 

If again you're talking abut a group that think we should all play the same well then I guess we do have a problem but it's not solved or made worse but down leveling forced mechanic or being optional. That particular group just wont survive.

 

It's really not complicated: You said having a toggle would make everyone happy. I pointed out situations where it wouldn't. This is, however, what you're doing: You're trying to enforce the way you want to play on everyone else. You even go so far as to claim that doing so would make them happy. Why else would you be here for tons of pages trying to convince everyone that the only correct way to do things is the way you think it should be done?

 

Here's your post, for your perusal:

 

And you can't face the reality of the situation.

 

Had this been held back and made optional. We wouldn't be having this discussion because, there would be no reason to debate when both sides would be happy.

 

What part of "The people that believe that if it's in the game it should be mandatory" means that making it a toggle will make them happy? You'll be happy, they won't, I'm not sure how that logic can escape you, since you seem to have such a grasp on what's required to code all this into the game, and coding is chock full of logic...

[-Spc]

Eve doesn't carry the story that this one does either. You now, the whole no spoilers thing.

 

It's getting looked at, just not by the entire player base or even those that actively seek the PTR when they can. Though if you do hit the PTR a lot, it might help. I think guild activity helps get in invitation.

If i don't want spoilers i will not go to test server to test it out - very simple, but to close down server for public it's stupid, because when bugs "come out" people will get banned - like it happened before because test server was not tested proprerly.

[Kiesu]

Like i said, test server is useless if people can't test stuff out.

In eve online, EVERYONE can test anything they want, test server will never close down for public use, and this is how it should work with all test servers.

People then report problems / bugs and they get fixed before the expansion comes out.

 

Not much point in putting it on test server then either. All subscribers will get the expansion, all subcribers get it on test server too, ?? so hold on its an early access of early access uhm

Invitations was sent to people BW trusted to test it without spreading spoilers everywhere

It is already in testing, us nobodies just werent invited

[kodrac]

Had no indication against it either. Its called speculation.

 

Didn't you know everyone that plays this game is also a developer? C'mon, this ****'s easy to make.

[Kiesu]

Trying to convince me that 75% of Gen Chat on Fleet saying "I hate this change!" isn't fair data is kinda BS though. Given how many servers have been squashed into the Harbinger, I'd say it's about as a majority of opinions as one could get asking that chat.

Because generally happy people dont compain, But dont really jump in joy either. They are the neutral happy middle road that generally dont like making a ruckus. If you are happy about the service you got at your dentist do you run over to tell everyone about it immediately in a loud manner? Didnt think so. If the dentist broke your teeth in half however, you would probably complain about it. Happy customer isnt always a noisy customer, actually in most cases they arent noisy anyway.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Kiesu

[ZavienUK]

The 17 instances on Rishi were (likely) because the amount of players on Rishi warranted it. With KotFE you'd be having those ~17 instances on Zakuul/KotFE-planets AND at least 1 extra instance for each planets regardless of whether those instances are fully in use or not.

 

I like the way you point something out that is bleeding obvious

 

That wasn't the point. The point I was making is from what we have seen server load seems to affected more by number of players / number of combat actions rather than number of instances. As many instances as you like doesn't seem to be a problem for this game. If number of instances were a concern we wouldn't have seen a design of game that throws instances at us left right and centre, and oodles of private instances as well. Just imagine for a second all these players running around during 12x how many instances are being created every minute, and the server doesn't so much as blink, it's actually very impressive. Now of course a small private instance isn't the same as a planet instance (before you make that point) but I don't believe number of instances would be a problem.

[Transairion]

Because generally happy people dont compain, But dont really jump in joy either. They are the neutral happy middle road that generally dont like making a ruckus. If you are happy the service you got at your dentist do you run over to tell everyone about it immediately in a loud manner? Didnt think so. If the dentist broke your teeth in half however, you would probably complain about it. Happy customer isnt always a noisy customer, actually in most cases they arent noisy anyway.

 

 

True, but usually when a happy customer sees an unhappy customer blasting something or other about something they consider good, usually they come to their defense.

 

If there's 100 happy people and 10 unhappy people, why are 99 of the happy ones mute on this change? I find way more people ingame talking about it being bad, with only every so often someone coming up and saying they like it.

 

Surely that suggests something.

[kodrac]

I never said I only asked my friends, I said I asked them as well as general chat and basically everyone and any who'd answer me. Anyone ingame who'd reply about it.

 

Also, not empirical data.

 

Trying to convince me that 75% of Gen Chat on Fleet saying "I hate this change!" isn't fair data is kinda BS though. Given how many servers have been squashed into the Harbinger, I'd say it's about as a majority of opinions as one could get asking that chat.

 

86% of statistics are made up. 100% on this forum.

[ZavienUK]

Yes, it has been made into an "us vs them".

 

But in a "discussion" where one group says "it's cool, give us options, anything that lets the most people get the most enjoyment out of the game is fine by me, you do your thing and I'll do mine", and another group says "Screw you, this is awesome, if you don't like it, S T F U or G T F O, loser"...

 

...where exactly is the "us vs them" coming from?

 

 

This perfectly sums up a lot of what we are seeing here.