Level synch = death of SWTOR

[ZavienUK]

If Bioware can implement it in a fast and smart way, sure go ahead.

If it require massive changes to the game, can cause issues like the ones I've described and will take a year to implement then I don't think it's worthwhile.

 

Well in my opinion (and yes I know already you disagree) If they can't implement it properly, then they shouldn't implement it at all. Any of these issues you talk about are because of this new system. While this system has the potential to bring improvements, the game was just fine before.

[Quraswren]

I see you haven't read up on any of the replies on problems to your brilliant suggested solutions here, as i still havent seen a working one

 

As fast as this is moving, if I didn't answer, its cause I missed it. Nothing more.

 

but I can guarantee you the griefing thing on the voss boss works like a charm. If your not in the pulling group, you'll not be there long.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren

[IanArgent]

From blog:

 

And Alderaan bonus series is level 40+

So it will be impossible do to bonus series, because they HAD to do this level sync system.

Another reason why this is super bad idea

 

Assuming they don't reset the bonus series content

[Elracor]

Im sure it might have issues, its coding but how stupid do you think they are? Do you give them credit enough to get it right as mandatory for every single player in the game?

 

Every single planet? Every single heroic area? Every single heroic instance? Every single quest that send you back to some low level planet and it all has less possible issues so go with forced on everyone?

 

There are too many potential issues for optional but not if forced? You give them enough credit to miraculously get forcing it right, but its to hard to make optional because of some potential issues?

 

I find your line of thinking really odd here. Probably nothing but, Why should BW do more, when they can get away with less. Gamers are victims of that label and BW is no different and since time and money is driving them, I'd say it makes it more plausible as to why there is no option to this.

 

Bugs and issues can always arise, but I think the gain in content is worth it. The optional part doesn't really give any additional content (to me anyway) and seems a lot more complex than just the Forced solution.

[Kiesu]

And are assuming that they will change all the missions ?

I think you're wrong.

I think you'll need a group do do bonus series.

If we would have told you they could have scaled players for planets before this, you would have told us we assumed too much too!

[ZavienUK]

yes if every future story, event, feature, etc. is created on the foundation of a mandatory level sync

 

Why on earth mandatory, that defeats the point of it being optional then, and for people to be able to play the content overlevelled if they want. If the content provides high level rewards for doing low level (level synced) content you can always turn off the rewards to stop people cheesing the content for the high level rewards.

[robertthebard]

Urggh, I can barely be bothered with this, but if I don't reply you will infer something from that too.

 

I have been here since and read the entire thread that was created after the stream. If this was merged with a thread that was created before the stream even went out, and therefore including concerns that turned out to be unfounded (e.g. losing abilities) I hadn't realised that. I suggested you go back and read the thread because you seemed unable to understand the concern that some people had, and why some people are against this.

 

I completely disagree that the majority of posters here are cherry picking anything. We understand the system as far as has been shown, and it comes down to wanting or not wanting that system to be mandatory. The thread I have been taking part in has not been about doomsayers for the most part, and I'm sorry your being mislead by the unfortunate title that was retained after the mergers. I have certainly never suggested the game is doomed, and I certainly don't think so, because this brings a great deal to the game. But I am with other posters in wanting it to be optional.

 

'Pointing and laughing' at doomsayers as you put it is unhelpful and inflammatory. Try to show a little empathy for the people who are upset by this. I might not agree that is the 'death of swtor' but they are entitled to their opinion all the same, and while they are most probably wrong when they say it is the 'death of swtor' it doesn't change the fact that they are upset by this change. And in any case where are these doomsayers your talking about, I'm not seeing much of that in this thread.

 

Actually trying this system out before having an opinion/commenting on it is actually a very logical approach, but we can't do that until the expansion launches (because there is no PTS) and obviously people will be concerned that the longer it is left to provide feedback the less likely it is that the system will be changed.

 

Nowhere in my post did I say, or imply a majority of anything, those are your words, not mine. I wouldn't have inferred anything from your lack of a reply, other than the obvious "You didn't reply". Unlike some that are ready to become emotional basket cases about this issue, I don't even see this as an issue. The only issue I had was you trying to tell me that things that are happening in the thread aren't happening in the thread, and of course, you suggesting I do something you hadn't done, actually read the thread...

[-Spc]

So we all have learned that level sync is super bad idea for bonus series, commanders, HK parts, Dread Seed stuff, GSI missions .. etc etc

Best way to do it is to make ON/OFF switch or don't implement it at all

[ZavienUK]

Instead of Syncing, why can't we just have a Mentoring system?

 

That is essentially what are asking for by asking for it to be optional. Except as well as being able to be used as a mentoring system it brings other benefits such as being able to do any content at any level. The key is it being optional.

[Kiesu]

As fast as this is moving, if I didn't answer, its cause I missed it. Nothing more.

And this is why you shouldn't assume toggle is "easily solvable" by these methods you suggested. Atleast the devs realized you need more than one mind thinking these things out so exploiting dont happen.

[kodrac]

And are assuming that they will change all the missions ?

I think you're wrong.

I think you'll need a group do do bonus series.

 

Well, they did change all the H4s to H2s. So it's not a stretch. And I don't think they've changed the missions just the level of the NPCs for the planets. i.e. At 40 you pick up the Alderaan bonus series. You go to Alderaan and get down leveled to 32. When you get to the bonus series area, the NPCs will be 31. You get rewards for level 40. Something along those lines,

[Elracor]

Well in my opinion (and yes I know already you disagree) If they can't implement it properly, then they shouldn't implement it at all. Any of these issues you talk about are because of this new system. While this system has the potential to bring improvements, the game was just fine before.

 

No, the issues I talk about are because you require the system to be optional rather than forced.

Edited October 3, 2015 by MFollin

[Kiesu]

So we all have learned that level sync is super bad idea for bonus series, commanders, HK parts, Dread Seed stuff, GSI missions .. etc etc

Best way to do it is to make ON/OFF switch or don't implement it at all

 

Since you cant pick up these missions before achieving required hard lvlcap, downscaling these mobs and areas to general planet level actually wouldnt effect them in any way. OR having sync bind to area works just as well. We just solved how to make bonus series, hk parts, dread seed and GSI missions work, everyone clap!

Oh if only there would have already been a topic discussing these with multiple solutions... oh wait there is

[Quraswren]

Bugs and issues can always arise, but I think the gain in content is worth it. The optional part doesn't really give any additional content (to me anyway) and seems a lot more complex than just the Forced solution.

 

and I guess thats where we fundamentally disagree. "Forced" limits my fun and entertainment I've been doing for years. Many have been doing for years. Nearly since SW launched. For them and me, the forced down leveling removed a bit of fun that isn't worth losing so they can bring back some really old content or because they want to allow someone to go help a friend and not kill some experience or because they want it to take a bit longer on planets as you grind out REP to get companions back.

 

It's great as a optional game feature because we're not so bad as to think some wont like it. It's just not worth it being mandatory, every time we log in.

 

and I don't for a second think it being optional was somehow more difficult than making it forced on everyone. We're just to going to agree on those parts.

[ZavienUK]

So? They'd still need to make up to twice as many instances on every planet to do it that way with up to twice as many mobs etc. for the server to handle.

 

But do we actually know how much of an overhead that actually creates (hint: we don't). I remembering seeing 17instances of rishi at launch and that didn't seem to cause any problems. Any problems we saw (e.g. ability delay) seemed to be entirely down to sheer number of people playing and therefore number of combat actions for the server to handle rather than number of instances. All the time the system is handling loads of private instances as well. I don't think 1 extra instance per planet would be that major an overhead. If that was a concern why would they have kept making new areas which required additional instances for the server to handle.

Edited October 3, 2015 by ZavienUK

[kodrac]

and for people to be able to play the content overlevelled if they want.

 

This right here is the one common theme to every complaint thread. Is it really that difficult to do things as they're designed/intended?

 

EDIT: difficult might be the wrong choice of wording but tiredness has started to settle in.

Edited October 3, 2015 by kodrac

[Elracor]

But do we actually know how much of an overhead that actually creates (hint: we don't). I remembering seeing 17instances of rishi at launch and that didn't seem to cause any problems. Any problems we saw (e.g. ability delay) seemed to be entirely down to sheer number of people playing and therefore number of combat actions for the server to handle rather than number of instances. All the time the system is handling loads of private instances as well. I don't think 1 extra instance per planet would be that major an overhead. If that was a concern why would they have kept making new areas which required additional instances for the server to handle.

 

The 17 instances on Rishi were (likely) because the amount of players on Rishi warranted it. With KotFE you'd be having those ~17 instances on Zakuul/KotFE-planets AND at least 1 extra instance for each planets regardless of whether those instances are fully in use or not.

Edited October 3, 2015 by MFollin

[Quraswren]

And this is why you shouldn't assume toggle is "easily solvable" by these methods you suggested. Atleast the devs realized you need more than one mind thinking these things out so exploiting dont happen.

 

Then why don't you refresh me on what I mentioned didn't, wouldn't or couldn't work and well start from there.

 

Because at the end of the day, forcing this on everyone or optional brings about the same problems.. It might not be easy but they have systems already in game that can be used to make this optional and that alone should make things "easier".

 

If the dev had more minds on this they would have seen it shouldn't be rolled out till it was optional and not forced. One can only hope they were intelligent enough to see the negativity forced would bring with it.

[SelinaH]

But that's a total disaster! I and so many others will never be able to do anything at-level solo...

This raises the question, for me, of whether instanced content such as class missions will also be scaled. Folks generally are assuming that any class mission that makes you go back to a lower-level planet will put you at the level of the mission -- not the planet -- once you're in the instance.

 

Will class missions within the natural level range of a planet (e.g., Dark Temple missions on DK) scale characters to mission level (as we're assuming would happen in the above situation), or planetary level? (Or something else? I suppose it's possible that scaling would be turned off for class storyline instances.)

 

For all the talk about soloing Heroics and facerolling content, I do personally believe that class story missions, at least, should be balanced in such a way that they're not difficult to solo for the average player.

[ZavienUK]

I've actually used the differing level exploit in the Rakghoul event as a lower level. The way it works is that the lower level player asks a higher-leveel one to play guardian. They don't group, and the low character spawns the mobs, and the high level mashes them. Great way for the low level character to get the achievement and loot from the H4 at the far end of the tunnel. And I know from watching folks that I wasn't the only one doing it that way.

 

So you found a creative way to work together with someone to achieve something which had no impact on anybody else playing the game. I don't have a problem with this.

[Quraswren]

This right here is the one common theme to every complaint thread. Is it really that difficult to do things as they're designed/intended?

 

Given that since this game started, is a leveling based game. the intention and design when it was created, was for gamers to eventually out-level content.

 

Not sure of your point here.

They created a leveling based game but didn't intend you to out level content? Or ever go back and kill or interact with lower level content once you passed it?

Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren

[sentientomega]

This right here is the one common theme to every complaint thread. Is it really that difficult to do things as they're designed/intended?

 

EDIT: difficult might be the wrong choice of wording but tiredness has started to settle in.

 

Yes, at the very least the down-sync should take is to at least 3 levels above the planet max, or 6 levels above at the most (6 levels above would be perfect ).

 

I didn't get where I am in the game by doing ALL content AT-level, it's solo-casual-bashing, plain and simple. Not everyone can roll through everything at level easily...

[kodrac]

If the dev had more minds on this they would have seen it shouldn't be rolled out till it was optional and not forced. One can only hope they were intelligent enough to see the negativity forced would bring with it.

 

I'm sure they did. And they also know they can't please all the people all the time. That's just reality. And it's a decision that has to be made.

[tmwfte]

This right here is the one common theme to every complaint thread. Is it really that difficult to do things as they're designed/intended?

 

EDIT: difficult might be the wrong choice of wording but tiredness has started to settle in.

 

So everyone has to play the game the same way? That is essentially what you're saying.

[ZavienUK]

Good for them, they found another way to enjoy the game.

 

Haha I said basically the same thing, before finding your post on the next page. It's funny to see the correlation here. The people not wanting this to be mandatory seem to be the ones who are up for people playing the game their own way. The people wanting this to be mandatory are the people who want people to play the game in a specific way.