Level synch = death of SWTOR

[robertthebard]

What are you on about. This is just a blog confirming the stuff from the stream for the people who didn't see the stream and to recap. It was almost certainly written and planned before the stream, and before this thread.

 

Actually, this seems fairly relevant to the dialog:

 

Planet Level Sync

 

 

We have added a new system to the game called Level Sync. What this system will do is that when you are on a planet, but above the target level of that planet, your level will automatically be lowered to that planet’s level. Ex: If you are level 60, and you return to Alderaan to do some Missions, your character will be scaled down to be level 32.

 

While you are under Level Sync the following things are adjusted on your character:

•Stats

•Armor

•Weapon Damage

 

 

However, while under Level Sync we will not take away any abilities or passive effects that you have. Also, while under Level Sync you will earn scaled experience. So if you are a level 60, killing level 30 mobs, you will gain experience appropriate for being a level 60 . This enables a player to go play any of the content in The Old Republic and get rewarded appropriately for their time investment. Did you miss out on the heroic area on Tatooine? No worries! Now you can simply head there and check it out without dramatically stopping your progression.

 

Source

 

I do love how people chose to cherry pick lines out of the presented information to carry on with their "DOOM" prophecies, but since you will keep all of your abilities, including passives, unless you really suck at character building, you're not going to be having a lot of trouble with anything.

[Tsillah]

For about the 10th time. They merged multiple threads, unfortunately into the one with the most hyperbolic title. The biggest thread that I and many others were contributing to was named 'Level Sync Confirmed' or something similar. Just because one immature person created a thread with a silly title doesn't mean we all feel that way or that all discussion is irrelevant. I will see if there is a way to petition a mod to rename this thread to something more appropriate to the discussion being had here.

 

Trust me, he wasn't the only one claiming majorities on the forum on this topic. Should've left it alone really, I'd already forgotten about it till you replied

[Reno_Tarshil]

wow, it doesn't even take me that long on a level 15 character.

 

Considering most mobs on level in coruscant while wearing level 12 modded gear die in a few hits, it should not take 15 mins to get to the Kingpin spot, even less when you're a on a speeder and can simply drive past.

[robertthebard]

Considering most mobs on level in coruscant while wearing level 12 modded gear die in a few hits, it should not take 15 mins to get to the Kingpin spot, even less when you're a on a speeder and can simply drive past.

 

But they need the hyperbole to keep the DOOM alive, think of the DOOM man...

[ZavienUK]

I rarely visit the forums for starters, but I'm shocked there's that much hate towards level sync...

 

It being mandatory or not is hardly relevant. If it works similarly to GW2's level sync, you'll most definitely be significantly powerful even when your level is scaled down, but you'll also be able to explore older areas, do heroics, hunt achievements or help friends/lowbies and still get proper reward for it.

 

As for the purpose of leveling up. Well last I checked, you can't access HM FPs and Ops at level 1; you can't do Hoth when you're still level 25; you can't skip to Correlia if you're still level 40. Gear is level gated, and so is getting optimal and powerful statuses.

 

I completely fail to see how this became an issue

 

And for a lot of people, the level sync in GW2 was a deal breaker, the difference was it was there from the start before people got invested in the game. I didn't like it, so I don't play that game.

 

And it being mandatory is wholly relevant, that's the entire point of this thread. We are just seeing the same posts made again and again. If you'd read through some of this thread you'd have found a post from somboey saying basically the same thing you have, and you'd see it explained time and time again why this is an issue for people.

 

The point is, people are different, they like different things. Sounds like you had no issue with the system in GW2, so don't mind it here. But some people did have an issue with it, and don't want it here. Making it optional keeps both parties happy.

[Murugan]

level Synch is a great idea.

 

The only thing that will be the death of this game is listening to all the whiners who refuse to let anything be changed.

 

There is not enough new content generated by this game, or any other to sustain an MMORPG long term in a pure vertical progression MMO. Revitalizing old content is absolutely necessary.

 

The majority of the content in this game can be found at 1-50, and very few people do it any longer. The idea that we should cave to anyone for any reason just so they can "one shot everything on every planet before Yavin" is ridiculous. Let those people quit the game if they feel so strongly about it, in the long run it will be better for the game to give people a broader variety of content to do on all planets. Especially when the best parts of this game are not necessarily the newest parts.

[robertthebard]

I think it is clear as the difference of night and day that level sync is not well received by the community... Copious amount of threads showing the distaste of it. So much so that the threads all had to be compiled into one thread. The one thread that is in support of the level sync, " level sync = revival of swtor" has 5-6 times less replies and support for it.

 

The question is why not implement this in a way to get feedback before actually putting it in game? A poll, pts, etc... Would have done the job, but it is interesting to see that bioware claims they are giving the community what we want, but it clearly isn't the majority they are listening to, or even their own community. Though this may be something they wanted to test and see how ppl react and if it is not well received they may get rid of it, it is quite obvious, the reaction is not positive.

 

Many questions still are uncertain about level sync such as:

GSI quest

Story missions requiring to go back to lower level planets

Bounty contracts

Events (Gree/Rak)

Etc.... The list goes on

 

How will level sync work with these in detail? All we were told is what it does in general, " you are scaled to the max level for that planet...", as stated in stream many many many times. But no details that actually needed to be addressed were addressed for whatever reason. The dodge method.

 

It also didn't have the spam from 5 other people piled into it. Only about 15% of a game's population, on average, read the forums, so your position is what, 6 people are the "Obvious community majority"? But, here you go, here's some information from the blog:

 

Planet Level Sync

 

 

We have added a new system to the game called Level Sync. What this system will do is that when you are on a planet, but above the target level of that planet, your level will automatically be lowered to that planet’s level. Ex: If you are level 60, and you return to Alderaan to do some Missions, your character will be scaled down to be level 32.

 

While you are under Level Sync the following things are adjusted on your character:

•Stats

•Armor

•Weapon Damage

 

 

However, while under Level Sync we will not take away any abilities or passive effects that you have. Also, while under Level Sync you will earn scaled experience. So if you are a level 60, killing level 30 mobs, you will gain experience appropriate for being a level 60 . This enables a player to go play any of the content in The Old Republic and get rewarded appropriately for their time investment. Did you miss out on the heroic area on Tatooine? No worries! Now you can simply head there and check it out without dramatically stopping your progression.

 

Source

Edited October 2, 2015 by robertthebard
Tags are hard...

[Chemic_al]

Planet Level Sync

 

 

We have added a new system to the game called Level Sync. What this system will do is that when you are on a planet, but above the target level of that planet, your level will automatically be lowered to that planet’s level. Ex: If you are level 60, and you return to Alderaan to do some Missions, your character will be scaled down to be level 32.

 

While you are under Level Sync the following things are adjusted on your character:

•Stats

•Armor

•Weapon Damage

 

 

However, while under Level Sync we will not take away any abilities or passive effects that you have. Also, while under Level Sync you will earn scaled experience. So if you are a level 60, killing level 30 mobs, you will gain experience appropriate for being a level 60 . This enables a player to go play any of the content in The Old Republic and get rewarded appropriately for their time investment. Did you miss out on the heroic area on Tatooine? No worries! Now you can simply head there and check it out without dramatically stopping your progression.

 

So basically, what was the problem going back as a 60 doing a lowbie heroic? Chances are you weren't doing it for the XP, and it wouldn't be a "time investment" issue since a) you can roflstomp if you so desire, and b) you planned to do it anyway - which means they've put in this system, with associated dev costs, for nothing. Yes, nothing.

Actually, this seems fairly relevant to the dialog:

 

Source

 

I do love how people chose to cherry pick lines out of the presented information to carry on with their "DOOM" prophecies, but since you will keep all of your abilities, including passives, unless you really suck at character building, you're not going to be having a lot of trouble with anything.

 

It's not about trouble other than aggro, things taking longer to kill when maybe I just want to get mats, do a cron without worrying about mobs etc, help a friend; all for no good reason, since the reaons presented here are straw-men.

 

But, here's a thing which ought to fill anyone with dread when they saw this system: Bolster.

 

They suck at it, it's manadatory, and chances are it will still be some broken code with unsatisfactory results. If I have my elite augmented end-game gear and I get the same stats as someone wearing level 10 greens, I would to say the very least, be unamused. More than likely it will have some horrible exploitable stuff, and you have to wonder why they even did it to begin with. Yay.

 

So yea, this and other asinine choices such as comp gearing going do to me, sound the death knell of SW:TOR.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Chemic_al

[ZavienUK]

"I don't want to have to work for my creds/decos/achievements."

 

Making something more tedious is not working for it. Yet another person who is equating tedium with challenge.

 

As everybody already accepts and has seen from the stream, it won't be difficult to kill these mobs, it will just take longer.

 

And there is also the fact that many people have been able to get their achievements/decos etc under the existing system, but for new players it has to be more tedious. How is that fair?

[ZavienUK]

A lot of them will get a solo mode like the SoR ones.

 

Oh great, thanks. Will it be repeatable? (I'm thinking of those run a flashpoint 25 times achievements)

[Tsillah]

And there is also the fact that many people have been able to get their achievements/decos etc under the existing system, but for new players it has to be more tedious. How is that fair?

 

Fair? You know what was tedious? Getting sprint at level 14 and speedering at 25 as a sub. The new kids have it easy.

[Zoom_VI]

Fair? You know what was tedious? Getting sprint at level 14 and speedering at 25 as a sub. The new kids have it easy.

 

..and having to spent 300k for tier 3 speeder piloting and half a mill for a non-ugly tier 3 speeder.

[ZavienUK]

Isn't it just a bit ironic that that trope applies to both sides of this discussion?

 

But I don't think it does.

On one hand we have somebody claiming people against this are not contributing to game culture (conjecture, from one person's point of view)

On the other hand we have people who have played RPG's with levels (both offline and online) for years and don't want their level's taken away from them.

[Tsillah]

Oh great, thanks. Will it be repeatable? (I'm thinking of those run a flashpoint 25 times achievements)

 

This is what they said:

 

Flashpoints

For Flashpoints, we have made quite a few changes to give you more options on what to play, and how to play them. For starters, all of the Flashpoints which are important to the core story have had a Solo Mode added, similar to what we did for the Forged Alliances Flashpoints. Also, those Solo Modes are repeatable, so you can play through them again if you want! These Solo Mode Flashpoints use a new level sync system that lowers your character’s level and power to the level of the Flashpoint, ensuring that you’re experiencing the content at the difficulty level intended - you never have to skip story content because you’re over-leveled for it!

 

Next, most of our Story Mode Flashpoints have been converted to Tactical, meaning you can play them at any level between 10 and 65! These Flashpoints also bolster your character, so you never have to worry about being under-geared or under-leveled, and can play with friends of varying levels. As an added bonus, each player can also receive loot specific to their Class and their non-bolstered level, so running these Flashpoints is always beneficial.

 

Hard Mode Flashpoints are getting love as well! All Hard Mode Flashpoints, including the Red Reaper for the first time, will be available starting at Level 50 up to Level 65. There will be a small Bolster to allow different level ranges to play together, but you’ll need to bring a balanced group with a Tank and Healer just as with Hard Mode Flashpoints currently. Just like the new Tactical Flashpoints, each player can get their own individual loot suited for their class from entirely new sets of gear. This will provide the perfect jumping off point for getting you ready to tackle Operations!

 

here's the link http://www.swtor.com/blog/operations-and-flashpoints-fallen-empire

 

Not sure which ones are considered important for the story line.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Tsillah

[VanorDM]

As soon as anyone claims to be speaking for the majority, I just chalk the whole post to nothing but a Argumentum ad Populum. Because every time the 'majority' becomes the OP and his/her guild, and really not even all of them.

 

But saying 'Me and these 15 people' don't like something just doesn't carry any real weight.

 

But hey if the OP can actually back up his claim with a poll of some sort go for it. I'd love to see such a thing at least once.

[Transcendent]

Mmm? It's a well known fact that bioware consistently sends out surveys

 

Never had one in the last 3+ years. Highly consistent, clearly.

[robertthebard]

But I don't think it does.

On one hand we have somebody claiming people against this are not contributing to game culture (conjecture, from one person's point of view)

On the other hand we have people who have played RPG's with levels (both offline and online) for years and don't want their level's taken away from them.

 

However, the arguments used fit the trope exactly. I'd assume you read it before you thought "Ha ha, I've got him now", but apparently not?

[Bakakiba]

Considering most mobs on level in coruscant while wearing level 12 modded gear die in a few hits, it should not take 15 mins to get to the Kingpin spot, even less when you're a on a speeder and can simply drive past.

 

Yet this was the main issue that some used to argue against level sync. lol

[Tsillah]

As soon as anyone claims to be speaking for the majority, I just chalk the whole post to nothing but a Argumentum ad Populum. Because every time the 'majority' becomes the OP and his/her guild, and really not even all of them.

 

But saying 'Me and these 15 people' don't like something just doesn't carry any real weight.

 

But hey if the OP can actually back up his claim with a poll of some sort go for it. I'd love to see such a thing at least once.

 

I think the OP is simply a troll. That's just me being nice, because the alternative is less friendly.

[tharbison]

Back when introducing a toggle to opt out of double xp events was a thing, somoeone said the same thing. They insisted that a majority didn't want it & it was a waste of time and resources and that Bioware was better off spending time on something else. So...I waded through dozens of pages forum posts, and discovered....they were wrong.

 

People tend to think *their* opinion IS the majority. Especially when it's something they're passionate about.

Edited October 2, 2015 by tharbison

[Quraswren]

So basically, what was the problem going back as a 60 doing a lowbie heroic? Chances are you weren't doing it for the XP, and it wouldn't be a "time investment" issue since a) you can roflstomp if you so desire, and b) you planned to do it anyway - which means they've put in this system, with associated dev costs, for nothing. Yes, nothing.

 

While all true ^

 

You mean you didn't have tons of people wanting you to go back to old planets and help them level but down leveled so they could still get experience? (I add a bit of sarcasm for flavor)

 

I know I didn't but maybe you had a different experience. Everybody I helped just wanted to get it done and wanted a level 60 to coast them through it ASAP. But apparently, going back and helping someone do a quest so they can get experience while your at high level was some big request. It was never really around these boards much but maybe somewhere. Hell, even on nar shaddaa SH where I hang out gamers arn't asking for help on those heroics because they want the experience. They just want it done ASAP. The EXP part isn't even cared for to be honest.

[-Spc]

I have wanted and hoped for this since SWTOR went live. Level sync is literally the single best change they could make to this game. All the planets I like to adventure on, relevant once more! This revitalizes the game on a fundamental level. Can't wait for KOTFE!

Except your gear is now useless, no matter what level gear you use it will be downscaled on planets.

So let's say you have purple gear, level 65 you can only use it on level 65 planet and that's it.

On alderaan it doesn't matter if you have level 50 purple gear or level 50 green gear you'll do the same dps / heals.

 

So this makes high end level gear obsolete and ops are now also obsolete, because gear we get will only be useable on 1 planet.

 

Also don't forget level 65 pvp gear which will be useless in open world on old planets.

Edited October 2, 2015 by -Spc

[VanorDM]

I think the OP is simply a troll.

 

Well either that or he honestly believes what he's saying. On the off chance he believes it, it's worth the time to post to call him out on his statements and get him to try to actually back them up with something other than vague claims.

[TravelersWay]

And you would suppose they would post this blog not 3 weeks before early start goes live if they had any plans to change anything to it?

 

As you say it's all planned ahead and by that same reasoning people can see that it's futile to think BW will change level syncing at this point before the release.

 

Pulling or changing something prior to going live is not unprecedented. In fact, BW did that with some PvP feature way back when - the day before the patch was supposed to go live. Regardless, are they going to do anything about level scaling prior to the 20th? Probably not, but that still doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed before hand. It didn't take them long to make changes to the CSM and the cost of buying skills after those two relevant patches went live - based solely upon player feedback.

 

assuming I'm still around, I'll be laughing.

Oh the irony.

 

So, when this goes live in a few weeks, what will you do with your solid stance then? ... because it will go live.

 

Will your stance mean that you quit or will you defiantly stand while paying your sub?

Not directed at me, but on October 20th, I will click that "Cancel your subscription" at the bottom of my account page on both of my accounts. I also have no plans to play in preferred status, either. I am not uninstalling the game, but I certainly will no longer be playing it until there are options in the game that let me turn off the accelerated leveling pace and the level syncing. If that never comes to pass, well it's been a good ride up to this point and well worth the money and time I invested in the game. I have more than enough games that I have been neglecting for far too long to really have any regrets about leaving SWTOR and never looking back.

 

level Synch is a great idea.

 

The only thing that will be the death of this game is listening to all the whiners who refuse to let anything be changed.

 

There is not enough new content generated by this game, or any other to sustain an MMORPG long term in a pure vertical progression MMO. Revitalizing old content is absolutely necessary.

 

The majority of the content in this game can be found at 1-50, and very few people do it any longer. The idea that we should cave to anyone for any reason just so they can "one shot everything on every planet before Yavin" is ridiculous. Let those people quit the game if they feel so strongly about it, in the long run it will be better for the game to give people a broader variety of content to do on all planets. Especially when the best parts of this game are not necessarily the newest parts.

 

The only thing you are getting on the old planets are the same old Heroics. While I like the idea of playing them scaled, I also want the option to play them "Vanilla-style" when my mood suits me, and it certainly does not need a planet-wide forced system to enable those old heroics. However, this does nothing to revitalize any of the planets because that content has already been completed.

Edited October 2, 2015 by TravelersWay

[VarKoE]

But I don't think it does.

On one hand we have somebody claiming people against this are not contributing to game culture (conjecture, from one person's point of view)

On the other hand we have people who have played RPG's with levels (both offline and online) for years and don't want their level's taken away from them.

 

I really don't understand this, but it's your account and your opinion. I just don't see it the way you do. But I have played GW2 in the past. To me has nothing to do with level. (since you got your skills) It really only impacts three things (since you agree killing mobs is not an issue)

- Speed to which you can pick up mats (mitigated some by change to gathering) and run dailies (lowering coin put into the game economy, but this should result in lower GTN prices)

- impact on questing mob availability (OS no longer wiping out area mobs) and impact on pvp (though still OP vs on level)

- World boss will probably take a group again.

 

Really no other meaningful impact.