jankiel Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Quick question: How will the level synch affect aggro range? Will my almighty lvl 65 sith inquisitor attract every freaking Kolsrug in my way while I RP on Korriban? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Absolutely agreed. Hence why discussions like these are necessary. I think level scaling is beneficial to the game for many reasons. However, from my PoV, those benefits are only fully realized when the scaling is an optional system and not a forced one. And we shouldn't have to rely on a forced system to try to mitigate issues like the ones you mention, even if they are not the real reason the system was implemented in the first place. Indeed. Though the "optional" has been rised to the table so many times that fighting over if something is OP or not is not advancing the discussion, as both sides are right in a sense. Instead we're just lenghtening the thread and lowering peoples propability of ever reading it. For the 100th time. It's not currently optional so its something I want support. I don't need to play the game to know that. I don't nee to experince my toon being down scaled to know thats not something I would ever enjoy, as a constant "always on" feature. Agree to disagree? Oh we disagree alright. If you want support on your view, I dont see why you are screaming at someone who disagrees. Chances are they will continue to disagree regardless. Edited October 2, 2015 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavrinDosa Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 What is the big deal? What is so important on voss that you have to be max level and god mode to enjoy it? Lol this is really dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Like I said, No matter how great a system is. You will always have someone hate it. Even when all the goods of the system>the bads. People still don't care or won't accept it. That is fine. Yeah, you and a lot of people keep saying that. But then, maybe it's an easy, low-effort way for you to dismiss other people's opinions without even considering them, that doesn't carry any risk of realizing that different people enjoy different things in the game than you do, and enjoy the game in different ways than you do. Funny how we keep seeing these "discussions" about various aspects of the game and changes to it, where one side will say "I'd like this to be set up so that as many people as possible enjoy the game as much as possible, and I'm not going to pretend to know what makes the game best for every other person"... and the other side says "This is how the game is best and anyone who doesn't agree is a change-hating whining stupid crybaby doodoo-head who wants to have badwrongfun." The core issue in all these discussions is that some people don't just fail to understand how other players enjoy the game, they fail to even understand that other players enjoy the game differently than they do. I'm not asking you to understand what it is about the game I enjoy -- I'm just asking you to understand that my enjoyment and your enjoyment are neither the same, nor is one or the other inferior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SelinaH Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So you should have these all done now, yes? I know I've only been around a couple of years, but all my lowbie planets are 100%, at least, the ones that don't require PvP. I'm not sure if it's mildly amusing or just kind of sad that more than one poster here seems to think that, "Well, you should have finished [insert X activity here] already, anyway!" is a reasonable rebuttal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm not sure if it's mildly amusing or just kind of sad that more than one poster here seems to think that, "Well, you should have finished [insert X activity here] already, anyway!" is a reasonable rebuttal. There seems to be a lot of concern and consternation and condemnation from a certain faction in these discussions as to what other players "should" and "should not" do, or have done, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavrinDosa Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Indeed. Though the "optional" has been rised to the table so many times that fighting over if something is OP or not is not advancing the discussion, as both sides are right in a sense. Instead we're just lenghtening the thread and lowering peoples propability of ever reading it. If you want support on your view, I dont see why you are screaming at someone who disagrees. Chances are they will continue to disagree regardless. It being optional makes zero sense if one guy is choosing to sync and one isn't just so he can gank that player to harass him for beating him In a wz how is that ok? Level sync works it really does please don't disagree or try to form an opinion about optional cause with what they are designing, level sync works, it really does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yeah, you and a lot of people keep saying that. But then, maybe it's an easy, low-effort way for you to dismiss other people's opinions without even considering them, that doesn't carry any risk of realizing that different people enjoy different things in the game than you do, and enjoy the game in different ways than you do. Funny how we keep seeing these "discussions" about various aspects of the game and changes to it, where one side will say "I'd like this to be set up so that as many people as possible enjoy the game as much as possible, and I'm not going to pretend to know what makes the game best for every other person"... and the other side says "This is how the game is best and anyone who doesn't agree is a change-hating whining stupid crybaby doodoo-head who wants to have badwrongfun." The core issue in all these discussions is that some people don't just fail to understand how other players enjoy the game, they fail to even understand that other people enjoy the game differently than they do. I'm not asking you to understand what it is about the game I enjoy -- I'm just asking you to understand that my enjoyment and your enjoyment are neither the same, nor is one or the other inferior. I do understand it, This new way of doing things is not fun for you, Taking more time doing what you enjoy with your limited time, and wanting to relax while playing this system counters what you find enjoyable. So at least having it optional would be nice. I just don't agree with your points. I don't want to see it optional because it would be abused, I feel that MMOS always change and systems always change that you should be understanding of that. Adjust to things that you might not like and understand others will. No options are sometimes better when it comes to things like this. We also don't know why Bioware picked not to do it. Could be tech reasons as well. My stance on the whole thing is. If this change is enough to make you not like the game anymore. I think you should move on. I don't dislike you, or the people who don't want the system. I just don't like that people can't accept things they don't like even if it might be better for the game and new people coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavrinDosa Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yeah, you and a lot of people keep saying that. But then, maybe it's an easy, low-effort way for you to dismiss other people's opinions without even considering them, that doesn't carry any risk of realizing that different people enjoy different things in the game than you do, and enjoy the game in different ways than you do. Funny how we keep seeing these "discussions" about various aspects of the game and changes to it, where one side will say "I'd like this to be set up so that as many people as possible enjoy the game as much as possible, and I'm not going to pretend to know what makes the game best for every other person"... and the other side says "This is how the game is best and anyone who doesn't agree is a change-hating whining stupid crybaby doodoo-head who wants to have badwrongfun." The core issue in all these discussions is that some people don't just fail to understand how other players enjoy the game, they fail to even understand that other players enjoy the game differently than they do. I'm not asking you to understand what it is about the game I enjoy -- I'm just asking you to understand that my enjoyment and your enjoyment are neither the same, nor is one or the other inferior. What is there to enjoy on DK at level 65 without level sync? I give you the floor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SelinaH Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Level sync works it really does please don't disagree or try to form an opinion about optional cause with what they are designing, level sync works, it really does. I think you're supposed to wave your hand around a little bit, first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavrinDosa Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I will also say this if you are into open world and your mad about getting aggo'd by trash, you're not a real open world pvper, that is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) I do understand it, This new way of doing things is not fun for you, Taking more time doing what you enjoy with your limited time, and wanting to relax while playing this system counters what you find enjoyable. So at least having it optional would be nice. I just don't agree with your points. I don't want to see it optional because it would be abused, I feel that MMOS always change and systems always change that you should be understanding of that. Adjust to things that you might not like and understand others will. No options are sometimes better when it comes to things like this. We also don't know why Bioware picked not to do it. Could be tech reasons as well. My stance on the whole thing is. If this change is enough to make you not like the game anymore. I think you should move on. I don't dislike you, or the people who don't want the system. I just don't like that people can't accept things they don't like even if it might be better for the game and new people coming in. The problem here is, unlike what you and some others seem to think, it's not just a matter of a shrug of the shoulders, uninstall, and move on to something else like none of it ever happened. I like quite a few things about the game as-is. Several of the changes we know about are going to remove or diminish aspect of the game I like. This is the last video game that I play, everything else is either not up my alley, or locked behind the wall of excrement that is junkware like Steam, Origin, etc, or got really old eventually. It's the only Star Wars game of anything like its kind. I'm somewhat attached to the characters I've created, and the "fictional world" built up around them of friends and contacts and residences and "head-canon" backstories for each of them. I've put considerable time and thought into these things. So no, just casually walking away like it doesn't matter, like it's no big thing, isn't what's going to happen. What's going to happen is that Bioware is going to stumble around blindly changing whatever comes to mind each quarter, until the number and intensity of things I dislike about the game outweighs the things that have kept me here so far, and I have reluctantly and regretfully stop paying them, and stop playing. Edited October 2, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) It being optional makes zero sense if one guy is choosing to sync and one isn't just so he can gank that player to harass him for beating him In a wz how is that ok? Level sync works it really does please don't disagree or try to form an opinion about optional cause with what they are designing, level sync works, it really does. You seemed to have missed the rest of our discussions regarding that point. Level sync works to a certain extent - but there are better methods at preventing those kinds of things - especially when it is forced level syncing. And from what we have seen so far (and what has been tested in the closed beta), the actual effectiveness of level syncing can be called into question. Edited October 2, 2015 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalrisThane Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 What is there to enjoy on DK at level 65 without level sync? I give you the floor... Being able to get joy over doing the "kill X mobs" achievement in Y units of time (no sync), instead of Y+Z units of time (with sync). (the same way you get joy over doing a chore more quickly... it's not happy happy joy joy, but more like contentment over a task being done) Doing it vague so people can't point at the detail i.e. focusing on how the example is wrong. If discrediting still happens, well... that speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakakiba Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So no, just casually walking away like it doesn't matter, like it's no big thing, isn't what's going to happen. What's going to happen is that Bioware is going to stumble around blindly changing whatever comes to mind each quarter, until the number and intensity of things I dislike about the game outweighs the things that have kept me here so far, and I have reluctantly and regretfully stop paying them, and stop playing. Which is the end of the month, like you said...right? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batbunneh Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) I think Level-Synch is mandatory upon roll out because that's the only way BW can gather info on how it will affect gameplay and player behavior. If it were optional from the very start, a big chunk of people might never opt for it out of principle, significantly skewing the data and their conclusions. What am I basing this on? The first time 12x came out, there was no opt out. Then when it returned the option was present. The data told em that a big enough chunk of players were dissatisfied with mandatory 12x. If Level-Sync is as ruinous to the SWTOR experience as some of us think, then an opt-out will probably be added some months down the line. The important thing now is for us to actually play it and let our collective metrics influence the game's future. If the Anti-Synchers quit right now, then the only data BW will have is of players who enjoy it, or are neutral towards it. In the end, there will always be people who will be negatively affected by any change in the game, enough to even leave entirely. Whether enough people are so affected to add an opt out or even reverse this change, only time will tell. TL;DR, we need to take these changes for a spin first before any of us say things we might regret. It's only 20-27 days away at this point anyway. Edited October 2, 2015 by batbunneh grammar, ugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I think Level-Synch is mandatory upon roll out because that's the only way BW can gather info on how it will affect gameplay and player behavior. If it were optional from the very start, a big chunk of people might never opt for it out of principle, significantly skewing the data and their conclusions.. If people immediately turned it off, that would be valid data as well -- data indicating that they're not interested in it as a feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenewbie Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I think Level-Synch is mandatory upon roll out because that's the only way BW can gather info on how it will affect gameplay and player behavior. If it were optional from the very start, a big chunk of people might never opt for it out of principle, significantly skewing the data and their conclusions. What am I basing this on? The first time 12x came out, there was no opt out. Then when it returned the option was present. The data told em that a big enough chunk of players were dissatisfied with mandatory 12x. If Level-Sync is as ruinous to the SWTOR experience as some of us think, then an opt-out will probably be added some months down the line. The important thing now is for us to actually play it and let our collective metrics influence the game's future. If the Anti-Synchers quit right now, then the only data BW will have is of players who enjoy it, or are neutral towards it. In the end, there will always be people who will be negatively affected by any change in the game, enough to even leave entirely. Whether enough people are so affected to add an opt out or even reverse this change, only time will tell. TL;DR, we need to take these changes for a spin first before any of us say things we might regret. It's only 20-27 days away at this point anyway. I do believe that, like many things, you have to implement a change and then make adjustments to correct any balance issues. People rage quitting now are a bit premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 TL;DR, we need to take these changes for a spin first before any of us say things we might regret. It's only 20-27 days away at this point anyway. Not entirely true. They still have their metrics on how many people cancelled their subscriptions at what point in time. It is not without some irony I now note that there is a new subscriber perk reward for being subbed on October 19th, and this popped up very suddenly within the span of time that the the livestream occurred. However, not only do they have that metric, but they also have the questionnaire to look at when people cancel their subs. Without a doubt, they will see just how many have done so over this particular feature just as they did when they announced no new Operations until sometime in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) What's this new "October 19th reward", I'm not seeing it on the front page. Might as well know what's going to gather dust on my account, since my subscription runs another 36 days... Edited October 2, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 What's this new "October 19th reward", I'm not seeing it on the front page. Swoop bike: http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire/rewards?intcmp=sor_bwa-mkt-t-us-hp-210 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZavienUK Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Someone explain this apparent contradiction: With good gear, a high level player can still gank heroics (as Eric showed) even with the level sync. Level sync will solve the problem of high levels ganking low levels in OWPvP. That actually remains to be seen, we saw one low level heroic. Will people still be able to solo the same higher level heroics they can today? I can't really comment on OWPvP because like a majority I play on PvE servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Swoop bike: http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire/rewards?intcmp=sor_bwa-mkt-t-us-hp-210 OH, that thing, I thought I saw that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakertanks Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Just want to say how I think this is a terrible Idea. Which, to me, should be self-evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So the lowbie noob is three-shot instead of one-shot? Like Quraswren said above, leveling syncing isn't really going to make all that much difference - but hey, if it truly does make an improvement, then that's great. However, like I have said twice, and now will say thrice, there are more effective ways of combating those issues without using a forced level scaling system. What are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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