Level synch = death of SWTOR

[SelinaH]

I don't care either way, but it is absolutely ridiculous for anyone to claim any quantity of the player base for or against this. Any claims like that are absolute conjecture.

Some non-zero number of players are against the inclusion of a non-optional planetary level sync mechanism in TOR.

 

Unless you honestly think that all the complaints are from one person with a bunch of alt subscriber accounts, or that everyone who supposedly disagrees with the idea is only posting objections for the sake of trolling.

[Rhyltran]

Excuse me if I'm used to rolling pvp games that dont encourage over-lvled camping and even give people achievement for killing peeps 30lv bellow them haha

You can flex your muscles all you want, I remember said pvp too and attended original Ilum pvp, as long as it lasted anyway. Good time. However, that was en equal ground, as it should have been. I dont see why so many people defend lowbie killing, unless thats the only way you get any kills done

 

Again, you didn't answer my question. Why aren't you in battlegrounds/arenas where everything is equal? You're choosing an avenue where things aren't equal by that very nature. I think you also ignored the point I made where I play games that if you get killed they can loot everything on your corpse. Those games aren't fair. PvP doesn't always have to be fair. Fighting uneven odds and winning is a blast and attacking a higher level opponent in an 8 on 1 battle and winning is also a blast.

[Leklor]

I'll be honest, when announced, I was strongly opposed to level synch and was considering leaving TOR after the end of my current subscription. Now? Not as much. I mean:

1) Every Heroic has been converted to 2+, so no mandatory grouping.

2) As Musco showed, a downleveled 60 on Dromund Kaas with 188 Blue Gear could still tear Elites to shreds without loosing much HP and the fights weren't long. (Please don't tell me "It's a dev account, he's cheating because on the same account in Chapter 1 of KOTFE he was loosing tons of health before he got a healing comp, so no, he probably didn't cheat.)

3) In general, it seems you are around level 2-3 levels above planetary limit, meaning that while you don't OS anymore, you can still wipe out regular mobs very easily.

4) It's been said that Influence will make our companions stronger. Since his Mako was Influence 1 during the quest, I suspect an Influence 50 Mako will do much more damage/healing.

 

Now, am I fully satisfied with the situation? No, not really. I still dislike level synch. But am I going to leave the game because of it? Nope, it's not perfect but it's not game ruining either.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Leklor

[Rhyltran]

I'll be honest, when announced, I was strongly opposed to level synch and was considering leaving TOR after the end of my current subscription. Now? Not as much. I mean:

1) Every Heroic has been converted to 2+, so no mandatory grouping.

2) As Musco showed, a downleveled 60 on Dromund Kaas with 188 Blue Gear could still tear Elites to shreds without loosing much HP and the fights weren't long. (Please don't tell me "It's a dev account, he's cheating because on the same account in Chapter 1 of KOTFE he was loosing tons of health before he got a healing comp, so no, he probably didn't cheat.)

3) In general, it seems you are around level 2-3 levels above planetary limit, meaning that while you don't OS anymore, you can still wipe out regular mobs very easily.

 

Now, am I fully satisfied with the situation? No, not really. I still dislike level synch. But am I going to leave the game because of it? Nope, it's not perfect but it's not game ruining either.

 

I won't use the whole dev account thing that was kind of.. lol. I will say elites on Dromund Kas are not the same as Elites on Voss. They are a lot easier. So it really depends how much they changed things.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Rhyltran

[EllieAnne]

Just like the 12xXP threads, there is a group of people that want to play the game their way and so everyone should play their way. Many of us want this new level syncing to be optional just like 12xXP is because WE want to play the style WE want to. But the Pro side doesn't want to hear it

 

"I want to help level up guildies." Good for you and if I want to do the same I'll choose the level-sync.

"You get XP and great door prizes." If that is important to me then I'll choose the level-sync.

"Why bother going to a low level planet just to one-shot grays?" I have my reasons and if those don't satisfy me, I'll choose the level-sync.

 

So you ProLSers out there, why are you so anti-optional? Why can't we play the way we want to and instead need to do it your way?

 

And PvPers, I understand your concerns completely but you have a different issue with ganking that us PvEers don't have. On PvP servers having it optional defeats the purpose.

[Leklor]

I won't use the whole dev account thing that was kind of.. lol. I will say elites on Dromund Kas are not the same as Elites on Voss. They are a lot easier. So it really depends how much they changed things.

 

Fair point. That's why I say we have to wait and see. Also, since every Heroic is now 2+ and scaled, if Voss' Heroics are too hard, those on earlier planets will reward the same so... Maybe it'll just mean the Voss one will be less profitable/useful.

[Kiesu]

Again, you didn't answer my question. Why aren't you in battlegrounds/arenas where everything is equal? You're choosing an avenue where things aren't equal by that very nature. I think you also ignored the point I made where I play games that if you get killed they can loot everything on your corpse. Those games aren't fair. PvP doesn't always have to be fair. Fighting uneven odds and winning is a blast and attacking a higher level opponent in an 8 on 1 battle and winning is also a blast.

Isnt that obvious? I am there, I do pvp. But I also lvl. I have capped characters of 22 lv 60 on a pvp server. And the amount of times my lvling got interrupted by kill achieve farmer has been memorable. They cannot loot your corpse, but they can keep you from advancing in questing as they decided the lowbie was good farm. A completely unneccessary interruption to your lvling experience that just forces you to log off or drive your 60 over. Such a hassle that would be easily avoidable with lvlscaling.

Im fine with 3 enemies of my lvl ganking my butt. But I am not fine with 60 faming my time for achievement. Atleast put some bloody effort into it.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Kiesu

[RaiderMid]

Fair point. That's why I say we have to wait and see. Also, since every Heroic is now 2+ and scaled, if Voss' Heroics are too hard, those on earlier planets will reward the same so... Maybe it'll just mean the Voss one will be less profitable/useful.

 

Is this confirmed or just speculation?

[Transairion]

I think the whole "Level synch can't be optional, otherwise no-one would activate it!" speaks volumes about the why.

 

 

Say World Bosses for example: currently a 60 can solo almost all of them, come KOTFE they'll get their butt kicked. If it was optional, the 60-65's would take all the spawns for themselves.

 

Solved by giving all World Bosses a spawn object rather than having some roam: we already know via Bounty Week and Rakghoul event (2014 onward) that mobs can be spawned determined on highest group-members level and so on.

 

Most stuff that I can see complaints about are instance or could/should be instanced anyway.

[Rhyltran]

Isnt that obvious? I am there, I do pvp. But I also lvl. I have capped characters of 22 lv 60 on a pvp server. And the amount of times my lvling for interrupted by kill achieve farmer has been memorable. They cannot loot your corpse, but they can keep you from advancing in my questing as they decided the lowbie was good farm. A completely unneccessary interruption to your lvling experience that just forces you to log off or drive your 60 over. Such a hassle that would be easily avoidable with lvlscaling.

Im fine with 3 enemies of my lvl ganking my butt. But I am not fine with 60 faming my time for achievement. Atleast put some bloody effort into it.

 

Again, if you're as powerful as people are claiming when you get downscaled you're not going to stand a chance anyway unless you're not as powerful as the dev team are claiming, right? So not much has changed. My point is that if you don't like uneven fights why do you play a pvp server? You claim you do it for pvp but aren't you also pvping in battlegrounds/arena? What do you get differently from pvping out in the world if you don't like mismatched fights? Also what would be the difference if it's six guys that have decided to camp you? In both cases you're not going to be progressing and you will be getting on your main to deal with the problem. I don't know this sounds like the same kind of discussion I've had in the past while I scratch my head trying to figure out why the person doesn't just play on a bluebie server.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Transairion]

Is this confirmed or just speculation?

 

 

This keeps coming up too, but I've never seen any proof. I'm relatively sure that the MAJORITY of the heroics ingame are already Heroic 2+'s anyway, so there being a screenshot showing multiple doesn't exactly equal confirmed fact.

 

 

Not until we see every single, or at least a whole lot of high-level Heroic 4's now Heroic 2's.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Transairion

[Teladis]

We really need no reason. If Bioware felt they could do it optional I am sure they would have. They did not, and I am sure they have good reason. It is not like Bioware is making choices to upset people. They make changes that is a good idea, and work with the limits of the engine itself.

 

 

So it is not a matter of we are against it. We are saying that it is not that way for a reason only Bioware knows. And that is good enough for many of us.

[Cyberload]

I think this is a great idea, been able to go back to low lvl planets and still get xp and credits its just amazing, it revives the old content and thats great because i was starting to get bored of running the same dailies planets over and over

[Kiesu]

It will only work as optional if there is separated instances for both styles of play, and I'm ok with that if that is the kind of optional in question. A simple on/of switch will result in system abuse, as i already explained in the compromise thread, that much is granted.

 

Gosh why so many thread on this subject.

[Leklor]

Is this confirmed or just speculation?

 

The terminal showed heroics from several planets and a lot that currently are Heroic 4 (Like Friends of Old that Musco did) were Heroic 2+

In fact, I only saw Heroic 2+ in the list.

[EllieAnne]

We really need no reason. If Bioware felt they could do it optional I am sure they would have. They did not, and I am sure they have good reason. It is not like Bioware is making choices to upset people. They make changes that is a good idea, and work with the limits of the engine itself.

 

 

So it is not a matter of we are against it. We are saying that it is not that way for a reason only Bioware knows. And that is good enough for many of us.

 

Very similar to some posts I saw during the 12xXP debate.

 

 

Then BW made it optional.

[Rhyltran]

We really need no reason. If Bioware felt they could do it optional I am sure they would have. They did not, and I am sure they have good reason. It is not like Bioware is making choices to upset people. They make changes that is a good idea, and work with the limits of the engine itself.

 

 

So it is not a matter of we are against it. We are saying that it is not that way for a reason only Bioware knows. And that is good enough for many of us.

 

Game companies don't always know best. Many admit later certain features are a mistake. Is this one? Time will tell but it's dangerous to assume just because bioware did it some way it's the correct way because they did it that way. They made decisions for Dragon Age 2 and thought the ending to mass effect 3 was the correct choice. For only reasons bioware knows they thought that ending was a good idea. Given the backlash it clearly wasn't.

[Transairion]

So it is not a matter of we are against it. We are saying that it is not that way for a reason only Bioware knows. And that is good enough for many of us.

 

Sorry if this comes off as rude, but that kind of thinking probably applies to every kind of religious justification out there.

 

"X says Y and we will obey cause that's good enough for me", and puts way too much faith in Bioware. They're a business, not martyrs looking after the orphans or anything.

 

 

 

Personally, I think it's clear the reason it's not optional because most everyone who I've seen/talked to about it says they'd disable it anyway. They don't want to have something that like 10% of the population will use, especially when it seems to be a method to deal with credit farmers and that kinda stuff as well.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Transairion

[Teladis]

Very similar to some posts I saw during the 12xXP debate.

 

 

Then BW made it optional.

 

I don't really care about the whole 12xp thing I was not around for it. 12xp and quest/scaling is not on the same level of design.

 

It does not really matter to me. Being optional or not is up to Bioware, and at this point. I doubt this would get change. As amazing as I am. I could be wrong on that. So have at it.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Very similar to some posts I saw during the 12xXP debate.

 

 

Then BW made it optional.

 

Which means they figured it out to make it optional then instead of when it was first implemented. If they deem it necessary to figure it out, they will likely do the same. You should prolly be prepared to not expect any incoming toggle anytime soon, if ever.

[Kiesu]

Again, if you're as powerful as people are claiming when you get downscaled you're not going to stand a chance anyway unless you're not as powerful as the dev team are claiming, right? So not much has changed. My point is that if you don't like uneven fights why do you play a pvp server? You claim you do it for pvp but aren't you also pvping in battlegrounds/arena? What do you get differently from pvping out in the world if you don't like mismatched fights? Also what would be the difference if it's six guys that have decided to camp you? In both cases you're not going to be progressing and you will be getting on your main to deal with the problem. I don't know this sounds like the same kind of discussion I've had in the past while I scratch my head trying to figure out why the person doesn't just play on a bluebie server.

No, you didnt get what i meant at all. Typical.

Imagine a lvl 30 downscaled kills your lv 25. Ok all fine and good move on. Said downscaled starts stalking you killing you every time you pull a pack or w/e. Now, instead of having to drive your 60 over, you can just call on the planet for someone to come and lend a hand. This was common on vanilla when lowbiekilling wasnt that popular.

However, without downscale, if that 60 is camping your butt, another player of 25 cant do anything to lend a hand as you cant even touch a player that high above you, but you can if they're downscaled. Instead you need to drive a 60 over to kill the 60. There is a very big difference that you are failing to see. I hope you understood now.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Kiesu

[Teladis]

Sorry if this comes off as rude, but that kind of thinking probably applies to every kind of religious justification out there.

 

"X says Y and we will obey cause that's good enough for me", and puts way too much faith in Bioware. They're a business, not martyrs looking after the orphans or anything.

 

 

 

Personally, I think it's clear the reason it's not optional because most everyone who I've seen/talked to about it says they'd disable it anyway. They don't want to have something that like 10% of the population will use, especially when it seems to be a method to deal with credit farmers and that kinda stuff as well.

 

It is called being level headed.

 

I understand that a game design is not going to be 100 percent of what I want. In a MMO with tons of people paying a fee. I am just a single person. If I had my way, many things would change in this game. I can find a list of things that I hate and find unfun with the system we have now. Yet, many people like it, So i am understanding of it and find my fun in other ways.

 

It is what it is. If this change is enough for you to hate the game, and find no fun in anything with it. It is time to move on. If you can accept the change, and still not like it. While still having fun. More respect to you. Life can't always be what we want it to be.

[Rhyltran]

No, you didnt get what i meant at all. Typical.

Imagine a lvl 30 downscaled kills your lv 25. Ok all fine and good move on. Said downscaled starts stalking you killing you every time you pull a pack or w/e. Now, instead of having to drive your 60 over, you can just call on the planet for someone to come and lend a hand. This was common on vanilla when lowbiekilling wasnt that popular.

However, without downscale, if that 60 is camping your butt, another player of 25 cant so anything to lend a hand. Instead you need to drive a 60 over. There is a very big difference that you are failing to see. I hope you understood now.

 

Except given the nature of level scaling and given how powerful people are claiming to be one level 25 won't matter. This level 30 player is going to have more CC abilities that you will have at that level. Ways to keep one of you out of the fight while he easily kills the other. Not to mention his companion is going to be a lot stronger as well which also means it's going to be outputting a lot more healing.

 

In vanilla there were more people but the pvp servers have been a dying breed. In fact, many people have been transferring off them. Still sounds like a bluebie server might be better.

[Juromaro]

Well 1 reason for me: The ones who won't use it, the ones who will remain max level and continue to farm the world bosses, continue laying waste to quest mobs etc...An optional toggle while nice means not everyone would use it. And while not everyone would grief there are those that their sole purpose is to make gaming here extremely difficult, take for instance Ebon Hawk server, a week or so ago some level 30ish empire player was trying to complete a quest while a 60 pub scoundrel kept healing the guys quest mobs, preventing him from completing said quest, resulted in me and a few others having to log into our mains/60 alts to go put the beat down on this person. While this is rare it did stop me from enjoying my game because he/she could have done that to me, while a level sync won't stop actions such as this it won't help the situation if a level sync is optional or not.

 

Either do away with the level sync(which won't happen this late in development), or make it mandatory, because while you and others may not be griefers a large majority of people are, just the nature of online gaming.

 

It doesn't have to be a pvp situation either, I couldn't finish a heroic 4 with my group on DK because some Merc was running around killing all the mobs. Now while he would still be able to wreck those elites it would give my group time to tag the mobs needed to finish the quest.

 

Not to mention you can barely find and set up groups to take down World Bosses because some level 60 has already gone and killed it, so now you got to wait for however long it takes to respawn and hope that you can get a group together again to kill it before a level 60 comes around and tags it.

 

Again this doesn't speak for everyone in the "Anti-level sync" camp, but it does happen.

 

World PvP is another issue, while I relish the idea of being able to fight a level 60 downlevel on my level 30, I know I will still lose because he/she will have more abilities and better gear than I, but I know at least because of level sync it won't be an instant death situation and I could possibly win. But that is a moot point for me as I play on Ebon Hawk and open world pvp is all but dead except for the griefers.

 

There are both pros and cons to the level sync, and while both camps have members who resort to flame tactics the point stands, either don't have it or make it mandatory. And since they have it well you know.

[Eleonora]

I don't understand why anyone is against level scaling.