Level synch = death of SWTOR

[Infernixx]

I got this image in my head of some dumb insta-60 Sith Assassin who doesn't know anything about the class or about level syncing, derping it up on DK, trying to gank lowbie pubs and getting punked out repeatedly and having no idea what the hell is going on...

[Warrgames]

UGH!! I'm not coming across well or explaining myself well enough. It's not coming out what I'm meaning to say!! Dammit guys. Does anybody understand what I mean?? I wish I could explain things better

 

I understand you perfectly clear. You like the system, you are happy for the system. I choose to not play GW2 because of the system. I've canceled my sub here because I don't want the system.

[Kiesu]

And one more time - that's what friends, guildies, and Global chat are for!

Once again, how about giving one good reason to keep the current system over scaled, rather than trying to find excuses.

[Max_Killjoy]

Some people don't like change, change scares them.

 

Hey, that's a new one. We've never, ever seen that sorry, tired, worn-out fallback "argument" around here before.

[Sarfux]

If you're not for or against it why do your posts read like an ESL version of SWTOR community managers' posts?

 

Because I have been on this game since 2008, with devs, I've given ideas, I've been here since the idea phase, and joined the forums on 1/1/11 because of this goofy 1 thing I have in my head.

 

I LOVE this game and LOVE star wars! I know some people from BioWare and they are really good people! They are just trying to bring good things to the game and make people happy. They read like community manager posts because that's just the way I talk. I'm trying to talk to people to reassure them that nothing what they think is going on, is actually going on. It seems it's LIKE GW2 system. Please, understand! I will be here all night to answer questions and explain!

 

I will always be here! Yes! I AM a white knight of SWTOR and BioWare! I have admitted that before. But that does NOT mean I'm blind to not right decisions that happen for the game. I've been against things before but this isn't a thing to be against. It's beneficial to the game. You can do things always, everywhere, anytime, anywhere, all the time! NOT just level cap!!

[Kelaso]

If you're not for or against it why do your posts read like an ESL version of SWTOR community managers' posts?

 

Because he works for Bioware. I thought it has been pretty obvious since the launch of the game.

[leehambly]

I understand you perfectly clear. You like the system, you are happy for the system. I choose to not play GW2 because of the system. I've canceled my sub here because I don't want the system.

 

You don't even know what the system entails or means.

[Infernixx]

Because I have been on this game since 2008, with devs, I've given ideas, I've been here since the idea phase, and joined the forums on 1/1/11 because of this goofy 1 thing I have in my head.

 

I LOVE this game and LOVE star wars! I know some people from BioWare and they are really good people! They are just trying to bring good things to the game and make people happy. They read like community manager posts because that's just the way I talk. I'm trying to talk to people to reassure them that nothing what they think is going on, is actually going on. It seems it's LIKE GW2 system. Please, understand! I will be here all night to answer questions and explain!

 

I will always be here! Yes! I AM a white knight of SWTOR and BioWare! I have admitted that before. But that does NOT mean I'm blind to not right decisions that happen for the game. I've been against things before but this isn't a thing to be against. It's beneficial to the game. You can do things always, everywhere, anytime, anywhere, all the time! NOT just level cap!!

 

How's that Rome-building coming along?

[arpey]

Because he works for Bioware. I thought it has been pretty obvious since the launch of the game.

 

Yeah, I see that now. I usually avoid these forums because of the white knights who can't see the problems in the game, but Bioware astroturfing is a new low.

[-Sullster-]

This really really irritates me but it won't be something I will cry and unsub over, likely means I will now main a stealth character for an easier time. The one thing I will miss is farming lower level Heroics for credits or materials or just stomping level 20's under my boots.

 

I'd personally prefer a toggle similar to how City of Heroes did it back in the day - The sidekick and lackey system, but as they have likely done it to revitalize old content and possibly link in with the alliance system unless the the outcry is as major as the 12xp toggle was, which actually forced a change - it is unfortunately likely here to stay.

 

Hopefully as shown in the stream the extra abilities and "power" gained by being a downgraded 65 will be enough to still solo some of the easier Heroics, especially with 2x Heroic moment!

Edited October 1, 2015 by -Sullster-

[Uruare]

Because I have been on this game since 2008, with devs, I've given ideas, I've been here since the idea phase, and joined the forums on 1/1/11 because of this goofy 1 thing I have in my head.

 

I LOVE this game and LOVE star wars! I know some people from BioWare and they are really good people! They are just trying to bring good things to the game and make people happy. They read like community manager posts because that's just the way I talk. I'm trying to talk to people to reassure them that nothing what they think is going on, is actually going on. It seems it's LIKE GW2 system. Please, understand! I will be here all night to answer questions and explain!

 

I will always be here! Yes! I AM a white knight of SWTOR and BioWare! I have admitted that before. But that does NOT mean I'm blind to not right decisions that happen for the game. I've been against things before but this isn't a thing to be against. It's beneficial to the game. You can do things always, everywhere, anytime, anywhere, all the time! NOT just level cap!!

 

Well then, you self appointed Bioware spokesman, give the whole class one good reason why this can't be optional.

 

Just one. We'll wait.

[Sarfux]

How's that Rome-building coming along?

And where did that come from? What are you implying Infernixx? That this game is going to die? What does my quote "rome wasn't built in a day" have to do with this discussion?

 

Do you want to mock me? Or make fun of what I said before?

[leehambly]

especially with 2x Heroic moment!

 

Someone is working it all out those dots are joining up, right

[Quraswren]

I'm nor FOR it OR AGAINST it! That's what I have been trying to say!

 

I'm simply explaining WHAT the system is without putting my personal thoughts into the matter Qura That's what I'm trying to do so people understand what it is!

 

I'm neither FOR or AGAINST it. That is until I see it and play it for myself. Then, only then, can I decide.

 

Gamers in SWTOR know what the hell it is. IT's a rather simple concept.

 

You put in effort (ever how you want to explain your level expereince) and BW will take that **** away at the drop of a hat if you go back to a planet you have out leveled.

 

Not something I'm interested in. I don't need to play it to know that. Gamers know what this sytem is. If that is what you're trying to accomplish, Please stop because you're not good at it.

 

But there is absolutely NO logical reason to be mad, upset, at the change or new systems coming or be down about it because that makes no logical sense whatsoever.

 

I disagree. I didn't level up 16 toons to be brought down to a planets level because BW can't be bothered to make it optional. Can't be bothered to allow gamers that have been playing for some time now to play like they enjoyed. Must force them to play another way instead of having the option for both types of game play.

 

This is a negative moment for me in SWTOR. There is nothing positive about it. Why the hell would I sit back and act complacent?

 

You must always be optimistic about things and be rational, and level headed. Force yourself to think positive!

 

Not a chance in hell of that happening. You don't have emotions so you can ignore them. Go with your gut.

 

and if things don't end up the way you want, cut your losses and move on

 

I fully plan to do that.

 

do NOT set yourself up to be dismal. It's not good for you life. MMOS are supposed to be our escape, not stress us out!

 

Sadly BW cant see that and something as simple as making this optional would have made all the difference. to bad BW couldn't see the logical endpoint to this and how simply all this could be avoided. How something as simply as entertainment for all could have been achieved but oh well. Too "F"ing bad for those guys who enjoyed that other "game destroying" game play. Got to get rid of that.

 

They are suppose to be enjoyable. To bad BW is making sure to mess that up,

Edited October 1, 2015 by Quraswren

[DakhathKilrathi]

If I'm out on some planet to capture a Kingpin, I am NOT there to fight random local scum over and over. If the weekly on some planet requires me to do a Heroic, I want to get to the point where I can solo it reasonably, so I don't have to roll the dice on whatever random PuGtard I come across on the planet.

 

This. So much this.

[ZavienUK]

A toggle might not work for a few reasons.

 

1) PVP as listed.

 

 

This is the only potential argument against a toggle I've seen. However It's already been established that the down-levelled character would still be more powerful than a natural character of that level (you even mention that further in your post) rather neutralising this argument. If a down levelled character can still beat the natural level one, it doesn't stop ganking, it might just take them more than a single cooldown now, the result will still be the same.

 

With a toggle, you could actually dial back the power of the level synced character (because there is always the option to not be level synced). Then on PvP servers you could have separate instances for toggled and non toggled characters. So lower level characters (synced and natural) are in the same instance on a level playing field, and no more ganking. Isn't that what PvP players want?

 

2) The game Engine itself. From what I was reading it is pretty limited. It could have some thing to do with quest rewards, Getting max level reward for 1 shotting mobs is not cool. So it could be the scaling thing was a all or nothing system.

 

I don't think this is relevant. For example the system can already prevent non subscribers from getting lockbox rewards, so I think the engine is certainly capable. It would just be reading a different variable (level toggle vs subscriber status) to determine rewards

 

3) World Bosses

 

What about world bosses? Being able to go back to earlier world boses at a higher level is fun for a lot of people.

 

4) Future, They might have more plans set up for it.

 

Can't speculate on the unknown really. And I can't see a circumstance where a level toggle would cause an issue.

 

So no it does not have to be optional, I see no reason why it should be. If you can still kill things with ease, (mind you will be a tad slower.) I think you will be fine with it not being optional.

 

No it does have not have to be optional. But please go and read some of my posts for the reasons why it should be.

 

It depends on your definition of fine. For a lot of players, taking their levels away in a vertical levelling game is a deal breaker in itself, but even beyond that forcing players to group where they wouldn't have had to group before, making exploration, datacrons, heroics and achievements more difficult is not 'fine'. Not impossible sure, but not fine either.

 

In a RPG with levels a lot of people enjoy getting those levels and power, and having been doing so for a few years it's an about turn that turns a lot of people off. It might not be an issue for you, not everybody plays for the vertical levelling, but it is for many. A toggle would suit both parties, you can play down levelled and be 'fine' but other people don't have to play the same way you like to play.

[divinecynic]

Actually as I am looking at how it actually works, I am not seeing that big of an issue. In fact this is freaking great. Let me explain. They are making all the old heroics viable for endgame farming. You can even qt directly to the site. The actual power loss is not that big really consider what you keep in the sync. My level drops and my stats do too but I keep all my abilities and passives. That's will make you insanely strong even with synced gear.

 

Should it be optional? Yeah I kinda see that. It does make mat farming a bit more difficult. As to drawing aggro, well honestly your max level toons have little reason to just hang out and cruise on lower level planets anyway, especially with the direct travel now.

 

As to datacrons and lore objects, that is or will be legacy wide. Sure I guess you can go the lore object for each toon even after getting the achievement, but that is just a tiny bit of xp. As to rp locales, honestly there are plenty of places to play that you will get aggro at no matter your level.

 

So I am seeing all these heroics becoming nice farming spots for my high levels. Maxing to 65 is going to be faster than ever. Added in more mats, comms...err crystals, and reasons to go back and look at heroics I haven't done in a long time. My character level drops but in the local environment they are still tough as nails.

 

So I struggling to see much of downside practically. Is it a big change, sure it is. The games has been changing since launch.

 

Edit: I get it. We earned the levels and all that. Ok let's be real here. I don't know about others but my 60s are not hanging on anything but endgame worlds as it is. They are doing endgame content not running around Balmorra for kicks. This actually give a reason to go back there. Now I am down with a toggle for the non-heroics areas. That would make folks happy. However leave the current stuff with Heroics alone, I want my crops of new farms.

Edited October 1, 2015 by divinecynic

[minty]

And where did that come from? What are you implying Infernixx? That this game is going to die? What does my quote "rome wasn't built in a day" have to do with this discussion?

 

Do you want to mock me? Or make fun of what I said before?

 

He is ether mocking you with relation to things taking time to do right or its a coded message about some Germans in funny hats coming to burn down the servers.

[leehambly]

Can't speculate on the unknown really.

 

And yet...

[ZavienUK]

Ok, thats were we truly differ then.

 

The purpose of a level system is to (mechanically) demonstrate the power you have gained over the course of time spent playing. By forcing players to play at lower levels than they have earned, it makes the point of levels mute. While not losing the abilities you have gain, you still lose the power.

 

Using DK as an example given level 18 is the scale to level based on the stream:

 

A player who is level 18 might have helped expand the Empire's grasp on Taris but,

A player who has defeated Revan and thus gained "the most powerful and advanced gear available" should be demonstrably different. - The abilities do not reflect the fact that you killed "the most dangerous threat to the Empire", they reflect that you have learned much (since you helped on Taris)

 

Thats the "immersive" argument.

 

The "real world" argument that I would make is this: I have spent 100s of hours working on improving my character. (In rotation/gear/etc) and it is simply not fair that I must be "reset" to the equivalent of 5 or 6 hours. That (to me) seems to be the major issue with a forced sync.

 

Me personally? I would use the sync if I happened to be on X planet and wanted to help someone lfg for a heroic. However, if I am there for another reason, I should be able to choose if my countless hours (RL time) spent should count for something or not.

 

Seconding this. All of this is my exact same feeling.

[Quraswren]

SNIP...

 

Should it be optional? Yeah....

 

SNIP...

 

And thats where BW should have started and stopped when it came to this down scaling design.

 

Should it be optional? Yeah. I can see where it should be.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Quraswren

[RAVM]

I LOVE this game and LOVE star wars! I know some people from BioWare and they are really good people! They are just trying to bring good things to the game and make people happy.

 

Well, I don't have a problem with this level sync, but I had to say something about this. A lot of players are not happy with some of the new abilities for some classes coming in 4.0 (Sins, Sorcs, Ops ... ***) but Bioware will go ahead and do it anyways.

Edited October 1, 2015 by RAVM

[Bakakiba]

This. So much this.

 

I wonder how some people ever leave the starter planets.

[Sarfux]

Well then, you self appointed Bioware spokesman, give the whole class one good reason why this can't be optional.

 

Just one. We'll wait.

 

There is absolutely no reason to even do this if they made this optional. The whole reason why they are making this mechanic is so everybody can do something in the game at all times regardless of level. They are doing this for a reason and I believe that in later times this is a big stepping stone towards open world pvp, repeatable quests so you ALWAYS have something to do.

 

If they made an npc where you could disable the scaling feature, what would be the point of doing that? What would be the point of them doing this mechanic of level scaling on the planets so you can enjoy all the content regardless of level at any time for the duration of the game so you don't JUST have things to do at max level, and do the same 3 or 4 things over and over again?

 

What would be the point of making a level scaling system optional? That would just create major hassle for the dev team, the game and players alike. It would create turmoil in the game's systems. There is no reason to make this optional if they did a thing THIS much.

 

Also, to let you guys know. EVEN THOUGH I am a defender of bioware and an admitted white knight of this game, I am simply explaining things and explaining my posts and trying to get people to understand this system more. I am not for it or against it yet! I NEED to see for myself how they are implementing it. From my understanding it seems it's more like GW2, which, if they are doing a scaling system (which from the news now they are) I would rather have them do it LIKE GW2, than any other system.

 

That's not to say I fully blindly support the system! NO. I am just trying to explain to those that don't understand a system like this, how it operates and how people are supposed to play in this type of scaling environment.

 

I am NEITHER for or against this. I need to see for myself what it entails, how it's approached, what the mechanics are and how it's played before making any decisions or jumping to any conclusions. As does everybody before we make any rash decisions. But I have a feeling, this is good for the game! Just as many many other things have been before.

 

Cmon, you guys know me by now. I'm always optimistic about things. It's how I live my life in everything. And if things don't turn out how I like them, I don't get down at all because I was optimistic about the thing before and now it didn't turn out good. and I don't get down because I don't set myself any expectations at all. I just go with the flow and see how the "thing" in this case SWTOR turns out. There is NO need for good or bad expectations. We must all see how things turn out for rational, sane thinking on a level that does not make us blind, naive or anywhere near ignorant.

 

THATS what I'm trying to say!

Edited October 1, 2015 by Sarfux

[DakhathKilrathi]

I wonder how some people ever leave the starter planets.

 

Just like I wonder why some people like to punish themselves with random PUGs. It's not fun. If you enjoy it, that's great Good for you! I'm glad you found something in this game that you enjoy, and I hope you can find plenty of other people who also enjoy it to play with you. I'm not one of them. Why should I be forced into it?