Level synch = death of SWTOR

[ZavienUK]

 

 

If they add a toggle, then what's the whole point of even adding the whole thing in? Might as well not just have bothered.

 

Because the system actually brings a LOT of benefits. Why would anybody be against that. It's about options.

[TravelersWay]

Why. Why would you do old content if you got zero reward from it. To look cool in lowbies eyes?

 

Why do people like romantic comedies? There's no car chases or hyper-big explosions, how can anyone like something so boring as ... dialogue?

 

How can people re-read the same book or re-watch the same movie over and over and over and over and over again?

 

How can someone still enjoy playing a game that they played over and over and over and over and over again 25 years ago? Heck, how can someone enjoy playing Monopoly? It's so old and doesn't have ultra-high graphics or hyper-big explosions.

 

Enjoyment of one's entertainment is an intensely personal experience and there is no right nor wrong when it comes to how one enjoys something. How incredibly dense and idiotic can people be to not understand such a simple concept?

 

Within the decade we will begin the see the first major title MMORPGs that completely abandon numerical leveling in favor of alternative forms of character progression.

 

We may. In fact I thought we had one or two try that already. However, like many other things, this will only be a niche design. Thanks to the nature of human psychology, those artificial things like levels will always be prevalent in games.

 

Oh I've read them. I just find them laughable and completely absurd.

As I do your posts.

Edited October 2, 2015 by TravelersWay

[Max_Killjoy]

Have you clowns ever considered the possibilities that are possible with Level Sync?

 

We have, and they're not worth the price... but what do I know, I'm just a clown.

[ZavienUK]

Yeah. Do go back and read what you said. I made a snarky comment, you told me to go back and read some comments because you replies to similar comment. So either you expected I'd by some miracle would have stumbled across said comment by just looking at "some" posts. Uhuh. I'm flattered you think my luck dice rolled that high, it didnt.

Oh, and btw, this thread is now merged with multiple other, and the posts are not even in order by thread. So you go back and try to make some sense of it if you were following just few threads and suddenly they all merged by time posted. See yellow BW post.

 

 

You are assuming I dont enjoy lvling. You assume I said you like oneshotting greys. I dont think you read my comment. I said "You like lvling, go do lvl. You like endgame, go do endgame. You like oneshotting grey mobs all day long, now you'll have to three shot them. You'd like to do lowbie WBs again without facerolling on your main, now you can." You= anyone. Not you personally, not me, anyone. Why you used word "you" was to adress this anyone who might be liking said thing, as saying "someone likes lvling, someone go lvl" would have sounded dumb like hell.

If I wouldnt like lvling I wouldnt have lvled 25+ characters to max on multiple servers. Dont assume. Read. I'm talking in general. You are taking this personal. Quit it.

 

I like lvling too, and i get to do all lowbie content just like before. Nothing will change when i go make another character to lvl from 1 to 60 for me. My point was, if you're not into that, whats wrong with the insta-60 option? You were saying, theres no point in lvling with insta 60, i dont see your logic in that. If you dont like the 60, dont take the 60? If you dont like lvl, take the 60. I dont see a problem here.

 

I did misread the intention with the 'you' part of your post. I did think you were meaning me rather than the 3rd party 'you'. I am not taking anything personally, but please don't try and tell me how to behave.

 

I like vertical levelling games. I would never in any game make use of an instant level 60 beyond perhaps a duplicating a character I already had on a different server. But they have now significantly neutered the point of levelling. For the way I play the game, I'm likely to only see my 'real' level on my ship or fleet. I play RPG's to get get more powerful, now I can only use that power on the combat dummy. That's not the game I got invested in.

[Chelan]

Because the system actually brings a LOT of benefits. Why would anybody be against that. It's about options.

 

IKR. And that's something we can agree on, which is actually the point: why would anybody not want the benefits? I mean putting it in as an option accomplishes nothing for BW since they are apparently making it mandatory for a reason.

[Kiesu]

Why do people like romantic comedies? There's no car chases or hyper-big explosions, how can anyone like something so boring as ... dialogue?

 

How can people re-read the same book or re-watch the same movie over and over and over and over and over again?

 

How can someone still enjoy playing a game that they played over and over and over and over and over again 25 years ago? Heck, how can someone enjoy playing Monopoly? It's so old and doesn't have ultra-high graphics or hyper-big explosions.

 

Enjoyment of one's entertainment is an intensely personal experience and there is no right nor wrong when it comes to how one enjoys something. How incredibly dense and idiotic can people be to not understand such a simple concept?

And how is this dialog and art compromised by lvlsync?

[Faelandaea]

Why. Why would you do old content if you got zero reward from it. To look cool in lowbies eyes?

 

They do not care about a reward. They already have everything you can possibly get from this game. Their issue is mainly because they want to grief lower level players. It makes them feel like they have a larger willie or something. I've personally seen these people in game. They will follow low levels around and grief them by killing everything around them before the low level can get in a hit. It somehow makes them feel better about themselves and now that this sync option is going into effect it is going to make them go back to cutting or something, I guess.

 

The sync still leaves the high levels so OP that they will still waste everything in sight really fast. We all watched Eric do it in the video and, again as a lot of people have observed and stated, he only had average gear on. But no one wants to hear that. No way. For the love of the gods do NOT tell these people that they will still be OP and still own everything in sight, and that the ONLY difference might be that they have to press 1 twice on their keyboard instead of once. It is the end of life itself.

 

To those against the forced sync, do not worry - from what I saw in the video there will still be PLENTY of power in your characters for you to continue trolling the lowbies.

[robertthebard]

Why MANDATORY syncing is bad:

 

1. I don't want to play with low level newbies. Sorry, but I had to learn with trial and error and researching, your newbie butt can do the same. Hell, I don't want to play with any low levels, new or vets. I did that when I was new/low level.

 

Care to point me to anything that says you will be forced to group with anyone, of any level, for anything? I haven't seen that yet, so I guess it's just your overactive imagination, or some delusion brought on by panic at:

 

2. Have they TRULY taken conquest, class missions, phased areas, GSI, etc into consideration when they decided on these changes?

 

OMG, you may have to actually conquest something to make your conquest???

 

3. I already fought my way through low level content when I was low level. If I want to do it again, I have 52 characters across many pve and rp servers.

 

OK? So, don't go to the lowbie planets?

 

4. It should be MY choice if I want to roflstomp low level npcs or not. I've never griefed other players. If I DID need to go to say Tython to finish achievements for killing x number of npcs, I made sure I was in a small area where not many lowbies were playing and did my killing there so as not to intrude on the low levels.

 

So you should have these all done now, yes? I know I've only been around a couple of years, but all my lowbie planets are 100%, at least, the ones that don't require PvP.

 

5. If I WANT to solo a world boss, that's my right unless Bioware actually changes the World Boss itself. I look around, make sure no other people are waiting in a group to down a WB. If there is, I come back later or switch instances, if there isn't, I kill the boss.

 

Until they actually make changes that affect the WB, and then you have a RIGHT to stomp it on a capped toon? Here's the rub, you only have the right to do the things they say you can or can't do. By adding in syncing, they are telling you that you don't have that right. Make a group from your guild or friend's list, assuming you have either, and go kill all the WBs you want, they're pretty easy in a 4 man group, except Dreadtooth, and I've heard that he can be done too. Hell, we did that Champ on Xiost, the roamer, with 3 guys, no way to outlevel that one, currently.

 

I'm all for the level syncing ITSELF. But I want CHOICE. Not someone ruining game play in general for me or others because they decided to make it mandatory. All we're asking for is an option to turn it on or off. You did it for 12xp, ffs do it for this.

 

They can't give you a choice. because when they do, people that choose to use it are going to be constantly trolled by people that choose not to, just like we are now.

[Quraswren]

Why. Why would you do old content if you got zero reward from it. To look cool in lowbies eyes?

 

Cause many times my entertainment and fun isn't always tied to a reward from a quest. Down leveling me isn't an exciting feature I would use on any consistent bases. No problem with it being there and optional as I see it's merits on occasion but not consistently.

 

That why it being optional is a much better design than forced.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Quraswren

[ZavienUK]

IKR. And that's something we can agree on, which is actually the point: why would anybody not want the benefits? I mean putting it in as an option accomplishes nothing for BW since they are apparently making it mandatory for a reason.

 

But here is the important point. If it couldn't be a toggle-able thing, and I had to choose between one or the other, I'd rather not have the system at all (and lose those benefits) than have it forced on.

 

I know this will be a contentious point , because this then gets down to what individual players prefer, and if it couldn't be toggle-able lots of other players would prefer to have it forced on.

 

I see no legitimate reason why this has to be mandatory.

Edited October 2, 2015 by ZavienUK

[Kiesu]

I like vertical levelling games. I would never in any game make use of an instant level 60 beyond perhaps a duplicating a character I already had on a different server. But they have now significantly neutered the point of levelling. For the way I play the game, I'm likely to only see my 'real' level on my ship or fleet. I play RPG's to get get more powerful, now I can only use that power on the combat dummy. That's not the game I got invested in.

I will never understand the joy of looking at the number ontop of your characters head get bigger as you lvl. I enjoy many games that dont use lvling system. They're just story, you adventure trough them. Swtor would be the same experience for me when lvling with or without that number. Without it, its more like an adventure anyway, rather than point gathering. With lvlsync, I can even choose which parts I want to do and where to go without wasting reward vs time, its like I can actually do those bonus missions now without having to worry about overlvling everything after. I'm quite happy about that. But thats just me.

[Quraswren]

I will never understand the joy of looking at the number ontop of your characters head get bigger as you lvl. ....SNIP.

 

You don't have to understand it. You just have to realize some don't play teh game the same way you do nor do they enjoy the same things.

 

SO having options on game play is a better design. That why down leveling needs to be optional. It lets you do what you like and other do what they like and have been doing for enjoyment.

 

Best of both worlds is how it should be design. Not a forced 65 going back to level 10 because he went to visit tython for whatever reason the gamer can come up with.

[Kiesu]

Cause many times my entertainment and fun isn't always tied to a reward from a quest. Down leveling me isn't an exciting feature I would use on any consistent bases. No problem with it being there and optional as I see it's merits on occasion but not consistently.

You didnt reply to my question either. Why do it with zero reward. "Because its not tied to reward". What is it tied to then though? Once again only thing that comes to mind from vague reply like this, is someone just likes to go oneshot things and feel powerful for 5 minutes.

[TravelersWay]

And how is this dialog and art compromised by lvlsync?

 

By not allowing someone the option of playing the game in a manner that they find enjoyable. If someone enjoys re-playing old heroics or flashpoints, or roflstomping a few Black Sun gang members now and again, or if someone finds visceral enjoyment by maintaining a character level near the recommended planetary levels, that's perfectly acceptable to me because they are playing the game and having fun doing it. The accelerated leveling pace and level syncing removes the ability for those players to do that.

[Kiesu]

You don't have to understand it. You just have to realize some don't play teh game the same way you do nor do they enjoy the same things.

I do understand that. You still see the number getting bigger though with the sync, so what is the issue.

[ZavienUK]

I will never understand the joy of looking at the number ontop of your characters head get bigger as you lvl. I enjoy many games that dont use lvling system. They're just story, you adventure trough them. Swtor would be the same experience for me when lvling with or without that number. Without it, its more like an adventure anyway, rather than point gathering. With lvlsync, I can even choose which parts I want to do and where to go without wasting reward vs time, its like I can actually do those bonus missions now without having to worry about overlvling everything after. I'm quite happy about that. But thats just me.

 

Thats ok, I get that, I actually understand it even if I don't totally agree, there is nothing wrong with what you are saying there. I have played/play other sorts of games that dont use a levelling system . But SWTOR has always been a vertical game, and I play it in part because it is. If SWTOR had never been a vertical game we wouldn't be having this discussion, but it has been for years, but they are now taking those levels (and power) away from people and in the process taking options away from people - this is what is getting people riled up.

 

Nobody here is against this system, they are just against it being mandatory. If can be on by default, and you can do those bonus missions in the way you described. Even the people against this being mandatory would use the system - just not all the time. Introducing it as a toggle doesn't affect those than want to use the system, but keep the options that have always been there, and allows people to experience the full power of their character if they want to.

Edited October 2, 2015 by ZavienUK

[Kiesu]

By not allowing someone the option of playing the game in a manner that they find enjoyable. If someone enjoys re-playing old heroics or flashpoints, or roflstomping a few Black Sun gang members now and again, or if someone finds visceral enjoyment by maintaining a character level near the recommended planetary levels, that's perfectly acceptable to me because they are playing the game and having fun doing it. The accelerated leveling pace and level syncing removes the ability for those players to do that.

So, because you cant go occasionally roflstomp Black Suns, game ruined?

Yeah, I always hated it when 60s facerolled lowbie content and you could never do lowbi raids coz nothing was ever alive. Was the game ruined for me because of this? No. Was it a bummer? Yes.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Kiesu

[ZavienUK]

You didnt reply to my question either. Why do it with zero reward. "Because its not tied to reward". What is it tied to then though? Once again only thing that comes to mind from vague reply like this, is someone just likes to go oneshot things and feel powerful for 5 minutes.

 

That is one reason, as well as doing exploration, datacrons, achievements, hk missions, seeker droid stuff, without it being made more tedious. Some people also enjoy doing lower level daily areas or prefer doing a lower level heroic than dailies. There are a million reasons. Asking to keep this as a toggle retains those options, and options are good.

[Chelan]

I see no legitimate reason why this has to be mandatory.

 

Then wouldn't it be a better use of time to ask BW why this system is mandatory rather than already asking them to change the system? I mean, most of us don't have any insight to what goes on in there. You never know, their reason might be a perfectly good one. Though for all we know, it's all jungle-themed parties with macadamia nut cookies and tiger-skin loincloths.

[robertthebard]

I did misread the intention with the 'you' part of your post. I did think you were meaning me rather than the 3rd party 'you'. I am not taking anything personally, but please don't try and tell me how to behave.

 

I like vertical levelling games. I would never in any game make use of an instant level 60 beyond perhaps a duplicating a character I already had on a different server. But they have now significantly neutered the point of levelling. For the way I play the game, I'm likely to only see my 'real' level on my ship or fleet. I play RPG's to get get more powerful, now I can only use that power on the combat dummy. That's not the game I got invested in.

 

Just how much time do you spend on lowbie worlds that you won't see your actual level? What dailies are being introduced with the expansion? Are they like level 10 or something? Seems snarky, but really, since they're increasing the cap, and buffing up the old Ops so they can be level appropriate at the new cap, how will you not be able to see your actual level there? You have a dummy, according to your post, so you practice for something. I sincerely hope you don't need that much practice to blow up the slugs on Korriban, at 60.

[ZavienUK]

I do understand that. You still see the number getting bigger though with the sync, so what is the issue.

 

No you don't. I spend some time hitting the combat dummy, then I travel to a planet and my numbers are a lot lower. For some people in an RPG that is a big deal. But not everybody is here for the RPG aspect, so options are good.

[EllieAnne]

Just thought of this.

A lot of us play non-optimum rotations because it's fun or we like the animation. I love the force choke/push combo. Are we going to have to optimize our rotation for the hardest heroics?

[Max_Killjoy]

Then wouldn't it be a better use of time to ask BW why this system is mandatory rather than already asking them to change the system? I mean, most of us don't have any insight to what goes on in there. You never know, their reason might be a perfectly good one.

 

Oh, I'm sure they think they have a perfectly good reason, from their perspective of trying to maximize profit while minimizing costs...

[TravelersWay]

So, because you cant go occasionally roflstomp Black Suns, game ruined?

Yeah, I always hated it when 60s facerolled lowbie content and you could never do lowbi raids coz nothing was ever alive. Was the game ruined for me because of this? No. Was it a bummer? Yes.

 

Again, how one gets enjoyment from one's form of entertainment is a deeply personal thing. If someone wants to pay $15 a month to roflstomp some lowbie NPCs now and again, and feel that level syncing ruins that for them, I have no problem with that and I do not judge them just because their idea of fun is different from mine.

 

Then wouldn't it be a better use of time to ask BW why this system is mandatory rather than already asking them to change the system? I mean, most of us don't have any insight to what goes on in there. You never know, their reason might be a perfectly good one. Though for all we know, it's all jungle-themed parties with macadamia nut cookies and tiger-skin loincloths.

Problem is that BioWare has a horrendous communication problem with the playerbase. It is unlikely that any such questions would receive any type of cohesive response. Therefore, the playerbase can only make their feelings known on the systems that we have or know are coming to the game. The reasons for such are mostly never known.

Edited October 2, 2015 by TravelersWay

[robertthebard]

No you don't. I spend some time hitting the combat dummy, then I travel to a planet and my numbers are a lot lower. For some people in an RPG that is a big deal. But not everybody is here for the RPG aspect, so options are good.

 

That's a very limited definition of RPG isn't it? Do you run out between sessions and whack stuff with your lightsaber in real life, thus playing a Sith or a Jedi isn't playing a role? That's part and parcel of RPG, it's even what it means: Role Playing Game, not SPG, Stat Playing Game.