Kiesu Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Except given the nature of level scaling and given how powerful people are claiming to be one level 25 won't matter. This level 30 player is going to have more CC abilities that you will have at that level. Ways to keep one of you out of the fight while he easily kills the other. Not to mention his companion is going to be a lot stronger as well which also means it's going to be outputting a lot more healing. In vanilla there were more people but the pvp servers have been a dying breed. In fact, many people have been transferring off them. Still sounds like a bluebie server might be better. Now you are thinking too much about the powerhouseness of scaled characters. It was not my point. I'm not sure if you're ignoring my point or just trying to find a way to excuse the current system. Exactly how is the current system better then pvp wise, compared to scaled? And no "it makes farming lowbis easier" is not a good reason. Indeed, a load of people are tired of current pvp world griefing on pvp servers and I dont blame them. I'm pretty fed up myself as well. If I wouldnt have played on the same server for 4 years I'd transfer off myself too, but I dont want to leave all old relations behind tho some have already left. It is grim and I've been noisy about server-merges on forums as well. Edited October 1, 2015 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaraExas Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I don't understand why anyone is against level scaling. because, they want to stomp on mobs 40-50 lvls below them, and solo world bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Now you are thinking too much about the powerhouseness of scaled characters. It was not my point. I'm not sure if you're ignoring my point or just trying to find a way to excuse the current system. Exactly how is the current system better then pvp wise, compared to scaled? And no "it makes farming lowbis easier" is not a good reason. Indeed, a load of people are tired of current pvp world griefing on pvp servers and I dont blame them. I'm pretty fed up myself as well. If I wouldnt have played on the same server for 4 years I'd transfer off myself too, but I dont want to leave all old relations behind tho some have already left. It is grim and I've been noisy about server-merges on forums as well. People griefing on pvp servers isn't why there's so few people on pvp servers. If that was the case every mmo's pvp servers would be dead. They aren't. WoW has the exact same problem. The reason why PvP servers are pretty dead is because you're right, most people don't like being ganked but it isn't just by higher levels. It's by too many people, someone being better, etc. Most people can't handle being jumped while questing. So why do some mmo's have healthy PvP servers? It's because the game's population is overall higher than SWTOR's population. Level scaling by itself isn't going to help the game's population. I don't think people are going to jump on it because it's level system is similar to guild wars. It really mostly effects the people currently playing in fact as old as this game is bringing in "A ton" of new blood is unlikely. You're never going to see the pvp servers have a population surge. It's a very unrealistic expectation. Ganking just comes with the territory and I saw your point. The problem is I countered it. You claim I'm looking too much into a leveled character's power level, how so? Your argument was it's easier to get a partner that is in the level range of the planet than grabbing a level 60. I shot back with how does that matter given how small a pvp server's population is if the people you convince to come help you aren't enough to stop the leveled player? How does it stop you from being farmed? How is the current system better? It isn't but I was pointing out the level scaling doesn't really improve it either. In fact it's mostly pvers that are complaining about it. This isn't going to be some magical bandaid fix. Edited October 1, 2015 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allamirr Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Its just forced grouping, yet there is no group finder for Heroics, they never even mentioned Heroic 4s. No option to solo them, instead were forced to have to beg for stupid groups, fight over stupid loot, wait for stupid players who dont know how to play the game. I left Everquest after 11 years to come to SWTOR to get away from having to group. Now this game is heading in that direction. I loved to play this game my way, only grouping when i felt like it, so much for that. Im already beyond frustrated trying to get a group or anyone to help on the Seeker/Macro Hero 4s, downscaling just sends me over the edge the more i think about it. Also, Why would anyone want to kill trash mobs every step you take on every stupid planet, or get knocked off your mount by trash and forced to fight? Make it so you cant be knocked off your mount when scaled at the very least. All powerful Sith and Jedi getting knocked off there mounts by every freaking newbie mob they come in contact with. Im annoyed just thinking about it, how the hell is that fun or challenging. I repeat, HOW IS KILLING TRASH MOBS FUN and CHALLENGING? ITS NOT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowermanx Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Is this confirmed or just speculation? Dulfy put up a YT link for it, watch it in 1080 and you have much better tools than twitch to see that every one of them on all the planets are H2's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The idea that they would - or could - make this optional, to me, is implausible. I think you'd do better to realise this isn't SWTOR 4.0. This is KOTOR 3. KOTFE is, seemingly, for better or for worse, a different game. They aren't 'taking something away from you;' they are giving you something different. Personally, I'll keep my panties untwisted and see what's what on 20 Oct 15 for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeneas_Falco Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Because you people complain about everything that Bioware does. This game holds your freaking hand through every last thing and STILL you complain about them doing something meant to keep the game from being overly trivial. People complain about it because it is a bad idea. Why should high level characters have to grind through bolsered mobs on low level planets just to go back to get the datacrons they missed, or when gathering materials for crafting? Why should they have to waste time dealing with the increased aggro of those now bolstered mobs just to get to a heroic to help out a lowbie? Why should they have to deal with that when revisiting low level worlds for a class or companion character mission? What is fun about that? Level scaling makes sense for heroics and flashpoints, particularly when it is optional. It doesn't make any sense at all when applied across the entire game world, and there it serves no purpose other than being a pointless time sink. Grinding blows and so does any feature that encourages it. Edited October 1, 2015 by Aeneas_Falco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Just like the 12xXP threads, there is a group of people that want to play the game their way and so everyone should play their way. Many of us want this new level syncing to be optional just like 12xXP is because WE want to play the style WE want to. But the Pro side doesn't want to hear it "I want to help level up guildies." Good for you and if I want to do the same I'll choose the level-sync. "You get XP and great door prizes." If that is important to me then I'll choose the level-sync. "Why bother going to a low level planet just to one-shot grays?" I have my reasons and if those don't satisfy me, I'll choose the level-sync. So you ProLSers out there, why are you so anti-optional? Why can't we play the way we want to and instead need to do it your way? And PvPers, I understand your concerns completely but you have a different issue with ganking that us PvEers don't have. On PvP servers having it optional defeats the purpose. I don't see myself as being in either camp on this, because to me it all depends on what the reason is why they are doing this and what their limitations are. First of all, because of the angle of your topic we need to assume that level-syncing will actually happen. I haven't seen it officially confirmed but it might be true. But even still we don't know much about it. So we all fill in the blanks in the way we choose and we are now having discussions about something we don't really know anything about. So here's another possibility for people to consider. From what we know the known galaxy is under threat and it's not looking good. What if BW wanted to give us a feel of this universal threat by placing quests on all current planets, linkd to reputation. We had something like this in the past with GSI but I am not sure how successful that was. My feeling is not that many people bother with it. The issue with such a quest range...probably dailies, is that planets and players are at a variety of levels. Also having high level players more actively going around lower level planets may disturb things there for people that are lower levels, not to mention unreasonable ganking on pvp servers. So the idea of level-syncing may come from there. And then there is the issue of choosing to level-sync or not. My feeling is that if I am right about what they're doing with it, that allowing players to turn it off might not fit. The dailies wil be too easy and you will still have high levels that can gank or grief lower level players. Ok. So then let's have a look at the concern of some players. I've seen a few players worrying about leveling not counting for anything and those who overlevel on purpose as they feel they are not very skilled. When I look at a game like Guild Wars 2 where they have a system like this, I can see that it may not be a real issue. The game bores me to death but the downleveling system does work in an interesting way. In their gear the stats don't just go up with higher levels but get more stats. SWTOR also has this. Whereas a level 11 piece of gear might have some strength and endurance a level 60 piece has 4 stats generally like strength, endurance, power and surge. What this could do is that even when leveled down you still have more stat points available than someone who is actually of that level. Also you are downleveled to the top end level for that planet. All this to say that even when downleveled to, for example level 24, you are likely to be more powerful than an actual level 24. Another thing is that this game is an MMO. The reason I say this is that MMOs are about improving yourself as you progress. This change, may push out a few players who consider themselves totally unskilled or just too lazy to bother, but I find it difficult to feel much sympathy for these players because they are basically playing the wrong type of game. Most of the people I saw complaining about how difficult a quest was were either underleveled or undergeared or both. If you can't even figure out that your gear level is much more important than your actual level, you don't understand how this game works. The vast majority of your stats come from gear, not your level. Just look at your stats, take off your gear and then see what's left. If this is already too much too handle, then really, don't play a game like this. SWTOR is already one of the easiest MMOs to level in and I don't see why people would need to be 5-10 levels over to do story quests. And that brings me to another point. Who knows what will happen with the story quests? BW said they are streamlining the current leveling process from 1-60. Have you considered that maybe it will even be easier than now to level through to 60? And that's my point. I don't mind people having the option to turn level-syncing on and off, IF it makes sense in the new game situation. At this point I do not know if it's warranted. The only reason why we have 2 camps here, just like with the 12 x xp, is because people have different fears and the fears are only there because we simply don't know enough. Let's just wait and see what things look like in less than 3 weeks and see if it makes sense what they did. Right now we're just arguing about assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitchdoctor Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I am not against it. I think it is simply implausible that they would make it optional - even if they could. I think you are all looking at it the wrong way, basically. This isn't SWTOR 4.0. This is basically KOTOR 3. KOTFE is, for better or worse, a different game. Sadly, it is built on SWTOR's frame. So, I think, 'they aren't taking something away from you;' they are giving you something different. So it isn't about making it optional for SWOTR 4.0 - it is rather part and parcel to KOTOR 3. I'll wait til 20 Oct 15 to see it in action for myself before I get worried about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) People griefing on pvp servers isn't why there's so few people on pvp servers. If that was the case every mmo's pvp servers would be dead. They aren't. WoW has the exact same problem. The reason why PvP servers are pretty dead is because you're right, most people don't like being ganked but it isn't just by higher levels. It's by too many people, someone being better, etc. Most people can't handle being jumped while questing. So why do some mmo's have healthy PvP servers? It's because the game's population is overall higher than SWTOR's population. Level scaling by itself isn't going to help the game's population. I don't think people are going to jump on it because it's level system is similar to guild wars. It really mostly effects the people currently playing in fact as old as this game is bringing in "A ton" of new blood is unlikely. The amount of people is not the current problem. It was the problem at Launch and has since long past (though factions are still unbalanced player amount wise). The current situation is, due to long period of time with no real content to do people started griefing and "achievement hunting", resulting in lowbi farming and killtrading to pass the time. This is a common thing you see people talk about though done is secret as killtrading is supposedly not allowed. Well, plenty of peeps get away with it as we've seen. You're never going to see the pvp servers have a population surge. It's a very unrealistic expectation. Ganking just comes with the territory and I saw your point. The problem is I countered it. You claim I'm looking too much into a leveled character's power level, how so? Your argument was it's easier to get a partner that is in the level range of the planet than grabbing a level 60. I shot back with how does that matter given how small a pvp server's population is if the people you convince to come help you aren't enough to stop the leveled player? How does it stop you from being farmed? Indeed its sad to see PVP servers go down in population. I mean jesus even RP server is heavier half of the time. But the fact is, world pvp is still something true pvpers want to do, and getting jumped is not the problem. Atleast its not for me but I can only speak for myself here. Its rather the corpsecamping and lowbiefarming that seem to be a new trend on pvp server. Imps getting on Ancorhead to farm rep lowbies for easy achievements is a common thing to see complained about on tatto chat while sitting in tatto stronghold. And why i think you are looking too much into player power lvl when scaled? Because you literally brought it up multiple times yourself let me quote you "Except given the nature of level scaling and given how powerful people are claiming to be one level 25 won't matter." Scaled lowbie vs lowbie is the lesser bad compared to lowbie vs 60. If you dont agree then then I cant help but to throw my hands in the air and say you exceeded my expectations of illogicality on this forum. Edited October 1, 2015 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) And one more time - that's what friends, guildies, and Global chat are for! And if you want to solo play? BioWare can shove level Sync, I'm not buying into it unless it's optional. 4 Years into the game, you don't make massive changes like this without bothering to sound the idea out with your community. Either way, I wish those of you who actually like this idea all the best of luck going forward. Edited October 1, 2015 by Transcendent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 And its forced. Not optional. Worst. Decision. Ever. You lost entrance to my wallet Bioware and I hope this goes for many others. Really don't get why its not optional and why they thought it was a good idea to force this on everyone. Yes it's nice for those that want it, BUT I DON'T WANT IT! So, where's the link to this confirmation? I haven't seen this official confirmation yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmobile Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Seriously ... title says all. Lots of people DON'T WANT THIS, still you force this upon us. I would be happy if this level synch means through terminals, but now you just get punished if you want to play the game in any way you want. Seriously considering unsubbing right now. RIP SWTOR.No it wont be the death of SWTOR, as usual that is an extreme assessment of things. It will however be harmful to the game. For myself it will take away a great deal of my freedom of play. I am primarily a soloist so any scaling that makes grouping more of required is a detriment to me. This will give me less incentive to go to lower planets as well as finish achievements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JabbaWabbA Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 so level sync was the big one they've been holdin out on us eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fynnlagh Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I didn't find any confirmation for this yet, so I asked here: Does the down scaling effect the quest hubs only or does it affect ops and dungeons too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leklor Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Well, apart from flashpoints, it doesn't seem to make grouping required. Heroics can still be completed with a Infuence 1 companion, wearing level 60 blue gear and having no utility points attributed. It would seem that heroics are just going to be slightly challenging (As in, you'll need to actually look at your screen instead of sipping a cocktail while watching TV and hitting an AoE every 10 secondes) instead of not at all. But from what the stream shows, even downleveld, you're still quite strong, enough to solo Heroics. To note, I'm not fully on board with the idea but I'm now in "Wait & See" mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 True. If i go to level 20 planet and i become level 20, what's the point of levels then ? get rid of levels ? It is very stupid to go to a planet and be level 20, what about open world pvp ? and other things ? If downscaling goes live, i will never visit and low level planets that's for sure. The whole point of levels is content gating, so you can go through a progression line. A lot of people like this idea of working towards something. You will still not be able to do level 65 content as a level 30 so there's the point of leveling. If you ever thought that the point of leveling was to be able to swat flies I think that's just something lazy people invented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 We really need no reason. If Bioware felt they could do it optional I am sure they would have. . Oh BS Level Sync was called Mentoring in EQ2 over a decade ago and was 100% optional Lets at least keep the excuses remotely realistic If EA can not do a system over a decade old then there is real issues in the development group of SWTOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZavienUK Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) I don't understand why anyone is against level scaling. You actually posted that in a 50page thread? Go back and read some of the posts why. I don't want to keep repeating everything, so I'll pick one thing: Are you going to enjoy at level agro radius and at level dismount chance everywhere you go? Sounds super tedious to me. Edited October 1, 2015 by ZavienUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JabbaWabbA Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 NGE truthers out late tonight and BW is hellbent on proving them right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fynnlagh Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I still think it's a good idea. I really like the down scaling system from GW2 and I disliked not being able to level my 34 sniper together with my friends newly started bounty hunter. We tried questing on DK a while ago and the xp gain was horrible for both of us. With the new system mentioned on stream yesterday those level differences aren't an issue anymore and that is basically a really good thing. As first impression from the video it seemed easy enough still but I guess we gotta wait how it works out. I'm looking forward testing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZavienUK Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 because, they want to stomp on mobs 40-50 lvls below them, and solo world bosses. There is an awful lol more to it than that, go back through the pages. See my example above. I'll also give you more: RP being interrupted by at level mobs and agro, rather than adding ambience. Achievements being tedious Getting datacrons being tedious Making life more difficult for the HK missions Seeker droid missions Oh and yes, stopping on low level mobs, thats a big thing to a lot of people in a level based RPG. It's nice to be able to go back. This just made getting levels pointless, except for when I fight the combat dummy, I'll get to enjoy the increased levels there :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkTrooperV Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Ok, help me understand something. So...when people "beat the game" they complain that they have nothing to do and threaten to quit. So Bioware has given us something that well...gives us something to do. Adds a little challenge. And now people are complaining that it's not what they wanted, so now they're up in arms about it and they are not going to do it and then will, at the end of KOTFE, "beat the game" again, and then complain that there is nothing to do and threaten to quit again. Am I missing something here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallerine Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Seriously?!?!? Who thought this was a good idea?!?!? Edited October 1, 2015 by Vallerine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Oh BS Level Sync was called Mentoring in EQ2 over a decade ago and was 100% optional Lets at least keep the excuses remotely realistic If EA can not do a system over a decade old then there is real issues in the development group of SWTOR Ah so you know what this engine can handle. You understand the ins and outs. Good to know kiddo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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