Jherad Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) they are not taking it away you are just being overly dramatic with your comment on range, weapons and cc because all those things like pulls knockbacks leaps etc have cooldowns therefore they are situational a vanguard isn't trying to pull you to him for 30seconds straight he will attempt to pull and then it's on cooldown Just like most stuff you use htl to avoid. Yeah, it's not like that increasing the cooldown by 50 *********** percent or anything. Oh wait. 50 percent is HUGE. HTL is our main DCD, and it's being gutted. Imagine our main attack being nerfed by 50%. Seriously, do you even play this game? There isn't a decent merc on SL, POT5 or Harby that I know who would think adding 15 secs to the cooldown of HTL isn't game changing. Which server are you on? When you are fighting a melee class, you use HTL the moment they start their burst on you. Because if you don't, you're going to DIE. Seriously, are you facetanking everything? Every time I wonder where they get these stupid ideas from, I imagine its from some eager sparky who only uses half his abilities and thinks 1000 dps is awesome. Again, if you're not being snared or rooted most of the time when you're fighting, then you're playing against terrible terrible people. THAT is why HTL is so important. Edited September 20, 2015 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Yeah, it's not like that increasing the cooldown by 50 *********** percent or anything. Oh wait. 50 percent is HUGE. HTL is our main DCD, and it's being gutted. Imagine our main attack being nerfed by 50%. Seriously, do you even play this game? There isn't a decent merc on SL, POT5 or Harby that I know who would think adding 15 secs to the cooldown of HTL isn't game changing. Which server are you on? When you are fighting a melee class, you use HTL the moment they start their burst on you. Because if you don't, you're going to DIE. Seriously, are you facetanking everything? Every time I wonder where they get these stupid ideas from, I imagine its from some eager sparky who only uses half his abilities and thinks 1000 dps is awesome. Again, if you're not being snared or rooted most of the time when you're fighting, then you're playing against terrible terrible people. THAT is why HTL is so important. Now you're fantasising about what I do in combat ha. what do you do when htl is on cooldown since it's all you got? wait at the respawn? They are increasing htl cooldown to 45 seconds and giving us a pretty powerful new ability on a 20 second cooldown I'll look forward to these changes and you can just keep stamping your feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Now you're fantasising about what I do in combat ha. what do you do when htl is on cooldown since it's all you got? wait at the respawn? They are increasing htl cooldown to 45 seconds and giving us a pretty powerful new ability on a 20 second cooldown I'll look forward to these changes and you can just keep stamping your feet. Oh FFS. You actually *are* facetanking melee aren't you. Of course you have other defensive options, but those other options are pretty much filler until HTL is off cooldown. Right now, you have 20 seconds of downtime when HTL is unavailable (assuming you've taken torque boosters, as most do) - with root, kb and stuns you can survive 20 seconds. 35 seconds is a different matter - if a meleer can't kill you, he's garbage. Again, which server are you on? I really want to see all these terrible meleers you're apparently fighting that don't need kiting. Enjoy mashing that disengage as the other player roots/snares you and laughs because your HTL is still on cooldown. Edited September 20, 2015 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Now you're fantasising about what I do in combat ha. what do you do when htl is on cooldown since it's all you got? wait at the respawn? They are increasing htl cooldown to 45 seconds and giving us a pretty powerful new ability on a 20 second cooldown I'll look forward to these changes and you can just keep stamping your feet. A pretty powerful ability, cannot be used while rooted! It can be powerful in 3.0 but in 4.0 it's just a meh. - PT jumped on you > fly to the wall > PT grappled you "come here bro"! - Mara/Jugg jumped on you > fly to the wall > dash "right to your face"! - Op popped out of nowhere, you are rooted and stunned > oh wait, nothing has changed since 3.0 you are dead already > he rolls/teleports to another target Mercs mobility and "you don't need it anymore" by Bioware... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Mercs lives a long time without HO, just saying. Design not for mercs. Edited September 20, 2015 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Mercs lives a long time without HO, just saying. Design not for mercs. Long enough to use aggro on the whole enemy team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Long enough to use aggro on the whole enemy team? I've got good experience as merc healer pre 2.0(not ranked) so no. This is question about LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Merc is one of the squishiest classes in the game under focus fire, having no anti-focus DCD. I don't know what he's talking about. Edit: Oh, healer. Yeah I'm concerned with DPS, specifically Arsenal/Gunnery. Edited September 20, 2015 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) U guys need to stop compare class balance around yolo que coz yolo is completely joke - 70%+ wins is matchmaking luck. Balance classes around luck - yeah thats a way to go. Edited September 20, 2015 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 U guys need to stop compare class balance around yolo que coz yolo is completely joke - 70%+ wins is matchmaking luck. Balance classes around luck - yeah thats a way to go. Who is comparing just for yolos? These changes are going to seriously impact mercs across the board, from regs to group ranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 A pretty powerful ability, cannot be used while rooted! It can be powerful in 3.0 but in 4.0 it's just a meh. - PT jumped on you > fly to the wall > PT grappled you "come here bro"! - Mara/Jugg jumped on you > fly to the wall > dash "right to your face"! - Op popped out of nowhere, you are rooted and stunned > oh wait, nothing has changed since 3.0 you are dead already > he rolls/teleports to another target Mercs mobility and "you don't need it anymore" by Bioware... And here comes all the hypothetical situations that always have you at a disadvantage Save it please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Who is comparing just for yolos? These changes are going to seriously impact mercs across the board, from regs to group ranked. Did u already test it on closed PTS with all changes dat should come? Edited September 20, 2015 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlightlySychotic Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Yeah, it's not like that increasing the cooldown by 50 *********** percent or anything. Oh wait. 50 percent is HUGE. HTL is our main DCD, and it's being gutted. Imagine our main attack being nerfed by 50%. Seriously, do you even play this game? There isn't a decent merc on SL, POT5 or Harby that I know who would think adding 15 secs to the cooldown of HTL isn't game changing. Which server are you on? When you are fighting a melee class, you use HTL the moment they start their burst on you. Because if you don't, you're going to DIE. Seriously, are you facetanking everything? Every time I wonder where they get these stupid ideas from, I imagine its from some eager sparky who only uses half his abilities and thinks 1000 dps is awesome. Again, if you're not being snared or rooted most of the time when you're fighting, then you're playing against terrible terrible people. THAT is why HTL is so important.[/QUOTe] Again, you aren't thinking about this at all beyond what you're losing. First and foremost, mercs and commandos can't survive getting focused for thirty seconds so the extra fifteen seconds isn't exactly going to make them more dead. Second, are you forgetting that you have the best knockback in the game? Omnidirectional, pushes further than any other knockback in the game without an additional utility, and snares at the end so you can't just leap back? Yes I know it has a lengthy cool down; see point one. Seriously, this new ability paired with the leap immunity is going to be a nightmare for melee. Stealth classes will still be able to get at you, sure, but that's not exactly less true now. But, hey, you don't want to take that leap immunity by all means go right ahead. It'll make my life just that much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Did u already test it on closed PTS with all changes dat should come? You can't theorise what is going to happen with the changes listed? Experience has told us that by the time it gets on PTS (If we're even going to see this on PTS at all), it is often FAR too late for changes, especially for expansions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) You can't theorise what is going to happen with the changes listed? Experience has told us that by the time it gets on PTS (If we're even going to see this on PTS at all), it is often FAR too late for changes, especially for expansions. Coz there is a lot of changes in 4.0. So no - its not ingame fix now. Need to test first then say something. Edited September 20, 2015 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Again, you aren't thinking about this at all beyond what you're losing. First and foremost, mercs and commandos can't survive getting focused for thirty seconds so the extra fifteen seconds isn't exactly going to make them more dead. But in those situations where we are fighting one or two players (split DPS), then we are going to stay alive long enough to need it. Unless you're saying that mercs should just get used to dying once after every HTL. Second, are you forgetting that you have the best knockback in the game? Omnidirectional, pushes further than any other knockback in the game without an additional utility, and snares at the end so you can't just leap back? Yes I know it has a lengthy cool down; see point one. this 'best knockback in the game' is useless when your target has KB immunity, which happens all the time fighting maras and juggs as you should know. Ops can cleanse the snare and roll back immediately, etc etc. Seriously, this new ability paired with the leap immunity is going to be a nightmare for melee. Stealth classes will still be able to get at you, sure, but that's not exactly less true now. But, hey, you don't want to take that leap immunity by all means go right ahead. It'll make my life just that much easier. See my earlier points about snares and roots. This is a team game and especially in arenas you spend most of your time snared. That disengage is going to be virtually useless there. The leap immunity requires a tier 3 utility - we only get to pick 2, and right now we have two that are pretty much mandatory. Lose/Lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arunas Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) This new ability sound awful. Backwards jump will be obnoxious to use, moreover you might be forced to rotate your character so you go to the desired direction which won't be always possible, and in huttballs it will be especially fun to use it without dropping down or getting into fire/acid. IMO having a jet out where you click on area where you want to go within X meters and relocate there while being immune would be better. Edited September 20, 2015 by Arunas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 And here comes all the hypothetical situations that always have you at a disadvantage Save it please. Lol wake up, mercs almost always stuck in these situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Do an actual comparison in game and I will guarantee that you will find yourself hard casting and standing still far more on your merc that you will on your sorc. On top of this, you will find it far easier to move around on your sorc as well. Actually my comments above are coming after I surprisingly found in-game that I was the same or more mobile in my noob gunnery mando than in my experienced sorc. I can guarantee you that gunnery is fine in terms of mobility and often even more mobile than tele kinetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToMyMa Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 more mobile than tele kinetics. But 9/10 play Balance because TK is trash, so that's irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlightlySychotic Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 But in those situations where we are fighting one or two players (split DPS), then we are going to stay alive long enough to need it. Unless you're saying that mercs should just get used to dying once after every HTL. this 'best knockback in the game' is useless when your target has KB immunity, which happens all the time fighting maras and juggs as you should know. Ops can cleanse the snare and roll back immediately, etc etc. See my earlier points about snares and roots. This is a team game and especially in arenas you spend most of your time snared. That disengage is going to be virtually useless there. The leap immunity requires a tier 3 utility - we only get to pick 2, and right now we have two that are pretty much mandatory. Lose/Lose. As you mentioned, it's a team game. If it's split DPS, as long as your teammates don't just abandon you then you just focus the same one they are. Nobody in this game is designed to survive under focused fire. If they pop an immunity, use the disengage. If they don't, use the knockback. If they have movement immunity but not stun immunity, use your stun and get some distance that way. Then pop HO and focus down whoever has the least health. Stay mobile. If they catch up to you use your root on your rocket punch and run through them. If you're not constantly moving your feet expect to get got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) If they pop an immunity, use the disengage. If they don't, use the knockback. If they have movement immunity but not stun immunity, use your stun and get some distance that way. I like how you laid it out. It looks like the disengage falls into place here. The only trouble is that it is harder to process and plan the backward movement rather than the forward one. But, on the upside you will maintain the facing. I dunno, overall the speed of the game at 65 I think will increase beyond what I can cope with, but the backward flip is not that bad per se. I just with the Smoke Screen was a Tier 2 ability, not Tier 3, because you need it in the midbies, since everyone can leap to you at those levels. EDIT: What level does the Disengage come at anyway? Is it a level 51 ability? Or is it like Force Speed, a low level one? Edited September 20, 2015 by DomiSotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) the dude who started this thread isn't a merc player. he may have one in a closet someplace. I think you have to consider the fact that EVERY AC is getting some sort of mobility buff, and frankly, many classes with their current closing and anti-cc abils could still keep up with a mando doing things with this 4.0 talent. so yes. I do think it's a nerf relative to the power creep of level 65 abilities. but...w/e. at least the "jet pack" thing is a reasonable lore related abil that ppl have been clamoring for since launch on BHs. Warriors are getting an uncontrolled charge forward for 20m - but that is on a 45 sec cd. That is their only "mobility buff". Compared to warriors, mercs have got a buff. Edited September 20, 2015 by Savej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenitsubasaChiyo Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Compared to warriors, mercs have got a buff. Sure, let's completely disregard the fact that mercs have literally zero survivability compared to both SW subclasses, mobility buff or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jherad Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) If they pop an immunity, use the disengage.. I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that. Try again later, when you're not snared or rooted. Edited September 20, 2015 by Jherad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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