Mercs getting a well-deserved nerf! ;(

[foxmob]

See my earlier points about snares and roots. This is a team game and especially in arenas you spend most of your time snared. That disengage is going to be virtually useless there. The leap immunity requires a tier 3 utility - we only get to pick 2, and right now we have two that are pretty much mandatory. Lose/Lose.

 

it looks to me like they envision this new "rocket roll" being paired with HO and the smoke screen utility. really...it needs like 2 other abils activated in order to work like a sniper who just rolls from cover.

[Theodulus]

I looked quickly at the changes and it seems like in 4.0 there is no point at all to play a merc healer in pvp. It seems mercs have awesome healing and no energy management issues in pvp right now so everything is nerfed across the board. I don't see how a 20m leap backwards that in reality will be 5m thanks to rubberbanding and nerf to HO is going to help keeping the distance at all. The roll on my sniper certainly doesn't help as much as I want to in pvp and with the sniper I have more slows and roots than I ever can get on a merc.

 

This expansion will most likely be a repeat of 3.0. I'll play 4.0 for a month and then unsub because there will be horrible bugs affecting mercs negatively in pvp that wont be fixed until some 9 months later. Or I'll just cave in and play the foty like everyone else and delete my mercs and commandos.

[foxmob]

II don't see how a 20m leap backwards that in reality will be 5m thanks to rubberbanding and nerf to HO is going to help keeping the distance at all.

 

merc/mando healing isn't (wasn't) predicated on making space anyway. they are (were) the "sturdy" heal class. the one that cannot retreat/runaway. they're mostly stationary and hard casters. of course in 3.0, everything got jumbled up. I would prefer they went back to being the stationary hard caster with tighter defenses. but it looks like BW's solution across the board is increased mobility and immunity to control of any kind.

[Theodulus]

merc/mando healing isn't (wasn't) predicated on making space anyway. they are (were) the "sturdy" heal class. the one that cannot retreat/runaway. they're mostly stationary and hard casters. of course in 3.0, everything got jumbled up. I would prefer they went back to being the stationary hard caster with tighter defenses. but it looks like BW's solution across the board is increased mobility and immunity to control of any kind.

Stationary healer doesn't work in pvp when melee classes have pushbacks and interrupt on a short cooldown. I hope Bioware adds a new awesome bug like mercs get 0 expertise that they wont fix until the next expansion so I finally can move on. If the nerf reason is that people are cheesing mechanics in PVE why don't they just balance the PVE content instead?

[Transcendent]

I also think that leap immunity for n secs should be baseline, and don't see the benefit of interrupt immunity. The new ability could be further buffed with a Tx utility that adds something to it. Like reduces cd, gives an extra 5-10m distance, extends leap immunity by 2s, can be used while CCed, gives interrupt immunity for 4s, etc.

 

I think the question is, why haven't BioWare opted to do this, and instead opted to make it a weak DCD that we have to spend yet another utility point on to make it viable? If they say it's internal testing, then I'd suggest that whoever is playing those Merc / Mandos is godlike, or their opponents haven't got a clue.

 

In order to be effective in death match, merc / mando's need to break this cycle. Either (a) better stealth detection, (B) better stun defense, or © some type of focus break when either of the other two failed. Giving us a 20 meter leap back does none of the three.

 

At this stage, I think the developers should be looking at the defences that Merc / Mando players have and amalgamating some of the abilities.

 

Defensively we now have what?

Active abilities;

1. Rocket Punch (and root with utility)
   
2. Jetboost (with extra knockback with utility)
   
3. Electronet (can be used as both defence and offence)
   
4. Hydraulic Overrides
   
5. Energy Shield
   
6. Kolto Overload
   
7. Chaff Flare (not applicable to healers.... stupidly)
   

Passive Abilities (Utility point required)

1. Torque Boosters
   
2. Power Barrier
   
3. Jet Escape
   
4. Suit FOE
   
5. Protective Field
   
6. Power Shield
   
7. Infrared Sensors
   
8. Energy Rebounder
   
9. Stabilized Armor
   

 

So pre 4.0 we have 7 active defensive abilities, and a potential 9 passive utility points that we can spend. That increases in 4.0 to 8 active defensive abilities and a potential 10-12 (can't recall all 3 new utilities offhand) passive utility points we can spend.

 

Downside is there are mandatory choices in utilities, making some of them pointless having in there. BioWare could easily make it so only Merc / Mando players have Jet Escape / Torque Boosters / Thrill of the Hunt as baseline for the AC. Equally there is the potential to combine Rocket Punch / Jetboost in some form, with a cooldown somewhere in between (Rocket punch only roots the player you hit, everyone else gets knocked back).

 

There are so many options open to them, instead of simply outright nerfing the class even more by adding another weak DCD (I mean cmon, it could have worked exactly like operative roll.... but with a jetpack ), that we have to waste another choice in utilities on to make it even worth having in the first place.

 

I mean I can live without some of the passives that powertechs get as standard, but there are options to improve our survivability by moving some of our own passive utilities across to core abilities.

 

I'm EXTREMELY frustrated by this stupidity.

 

I know you are, you're not the only one.

 

I don't see this working out well. but w/e. pretty much given up on the game.

 

Understandable.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Transcendent

[AmarantKando]

Reading things like this just make me angry. Commando healers have been the weakest healers in PvP for quite a while now, and still the Devs think they don't need to be buffed. With the nerf of HtL and the addition of a totally crap ability, they still aren't giving us anything to be as viable as the other healing classes. I honestly just dont understand... There are so many good things they could've given commando's. Instead they give us something to shoot yourself 20m away from the group, which can be easily countered immediately by abilities like Dash and Exfiltrate... Why not an ability like a big smoke bomb, which makes the commando untargetable for like 4 secs or whatever. Something like that would definitely give us some more survivablity.

It makes me so angry that it seems like they don't play their own game nor look at the leaderboards (where Sorc's and PT's are obivously dominating, and Commando's are all the way down) nor look at the forum's to see how people are experiencing the classes. As I said before, I just can't understand it.

Edited September 21, 2015 by AmarantKando

[foxmob]

Stationary healer doesn't work in pvp when melee classes have pushbacks and interrupt on a short cooldown. I hope Bioware adds a new awesome bug like mercs get 0 expertise that they wont fix until the next expansion so I finally can move on. If the nerf reason is that people are cheesing mechanics in PVE why don't they just balance the PVE content instead?

 

when they were good (op), they couldn't walk and chew gum. it was all stationary casting. thing is...they could take a lot of dmg and single target heal like beasts (espeically themselves with talents). and it was a bit ridiculous. but since then...? always third among 3 imo.

[Lalainnia]

The only time merc healers and arsenal were considered op was very early in the game around 1.0s when we had level 10s facing lv 50s with full battlemaster gear and we had pve adrenals plus clicky relics in pvp. One of the very biggest reasons why merc heals were also op at this time was operatives outright sucked and sages were squishier then they are now not to mention we actually had the best ammo management.

 

As for the taking a lot of damage this never changed and it was soley due to the talent that made reactive shield boost all healing received by 20%. The biggest change for us,when it came to burst was rapid scan and heat scan were switched in cast times which greatly reduced the cast speed of our burst healing under SCG even tho the overall healing of the move was increased it's slow as ever, which doesn't matter in a pve environment because we have firstly a co healer and secondly almost every single fight has specific parts which line up with our cds for being able to burst heal.

 

While an anti focus would help which clearly this new move isn't it doesn't stop actual damage. Once reactive shield is down can simply keep pressuring a merc heck even with it up. I still personally don't see why dps specs don't spec the same way as healers what exactly are they going to outrun with thrill of the hunt? I can see and tested it's use in war zones which makes sense so you don't get line of sighted but it's useless in an arena setting where it's pretty much do or die on top of the fact that mercs almost always get targeted first . Under Power shield and 3-5 stacks of tracer lock rapid scan and bacta infusion hit pretty hard. One of many issues as a dps spec is that they have no real small sustained healing like resurgence or kolto probe so you can continue dpsing ontop of the fact that those 2 acs can actually kite multiple ppl.

 

Any who maybe mercs aren't meant to be arena stars, but tbh if 8v8 were to come back again with no spec changes inside would just take a sniper over one which used to happen anyway. Funny thing is tho I would prob take a Merc healer for the raid buff and the fact that with a co healer and a tank we can take the most punishment of any healer once sorcs come back down to reality, and net ofc.

 

Pretty much new move isn't going to do crap.

[Floplag]

The idea had great promise, before they gave it median range, and were so terrified that we migh be viable they nerfed HO for no reason.

THEN, gave every other class new counters to make it pretty much null and void.

Never is my gaming life have i seen people so completely out of touch with parts of their own darned game for such an extended period of time.

[mmmbuddah]

The idea had great promise, before they gave it median range, and were so terrified that we migh be viable they nerfed HO for no reason.

THEN, gave every other class new counters to make it pretty much null and void.

Never is my gaming life have i seen people so completely out of touch with parts of their own darned game for such an extended period of time.

 

After playing some other mmos ( ESO and Wildstar ) I decided to try and come back to swtor after a one mnth break, and I can honestly say I don't know why I did, after seeing what a catastrophe pvp is in this game, I literally just said "what's the point". I will see how 4.0 plays out, if it doesn't blow my socks off, I will be done and go to a game where the devs actually CARE about the game. ZoS has done more balancing in a little over a year than BW has done in 4, not to mention all dlc has something for everyone, pvp, rp, and pve.

Edited September 22, 2015 by mmmbuddah

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

After playing some other mmos ( ESO and Wildstar ) I decided to try and come back to swtor after a one mnth break, and I can honestly say I don't know why I did, after seeing what a catastrophe pvp is in this game, I literally just said "what's the point". I will see how 4.0 plays out, if it doesn't blow my socks off, I will be done and go to a game where the devs actually CARE about the game. ZoS has done more balancing in a little over a year than BW has done in 4, not to mention all dlc has something for everyone, pvp, rp, and pve.

 

 

 

I agree, i do not like eso pvp though, too much ppl, too much chaotic

[Joesixxpack]

I'm convinced devs were traumatized back in 1.whenever it was and got face tanked by a few mandos. Since then their bottom lip starts involuntarily quivering and salt streams forth whenever they think about balancing them.

[Floplag]

After playing some other mmos ( ESO and Wildstar ) I decided to try and come back to swtor after a one mnth break, and I can honestly say I don't know why I did, after seeing what a catastrophe pvp is in this game, I literally just said "what's the point". I will see how 4.0 plays out, if it doesn't blow my socks off, I will be done and go to a game where the devs actually CARE about the game. ZoS has done more balancing in a little over a year than BW has done in 4, not to mention all dlc has something for everyone, pvp, rp, and pve.

 

100% agreed. I would suggest trying GW2 if you are looking for more of a true MMO experience that isnt the same old same old. I've been playing it for a fewm onths now since i took a TOR greak and it has a nice variety of PVP options including world v world siege style. The PvP is not CC centric, the game in general is not based on the trinity style of play, it has truly been a breath of fresh air. Its not perfect, like any game there are some issues, but its been a very nice time getting away from TOR without having to fall back into the trap that is WoW.

 

I really want TOR to be better, but TOR clearly doesnt want to right now. I dont know if they are intentionally putting off fixing it so as to not take away from the Battlefront hype or what but noone is this stupid, no team of developers that were good enough to create this game could suddenly goes dumb as a box of rocks. The thing that concerns me the most in TOR is that they arent even trying to address the real issues at this point, just giving out immunities and CCs to try to balance the broken system

Edited September 22, 2015 by Floplag

[BenitsubasaChiyo]

Let's look on the bright side

 

At least we get to become the Outlanders!

[Master-Nala]

100% agreed. I would suggest trying GW2 if you are looking for more of a true MMO experience that isnt the same old same old. I've been playing it for a fewm onths now since i took a TOR greak and it has a nice variety of PVP options including world v world siege style. The PvP is not CC centric, the game in general is not based on the trinity style of play, it has truly been a breath of fresh air. Its not perfect, like any game there are some issues, but its been a very nice time getting away from TOR without having to fall back into the trap that is WoW.

 

I really want TOR to be better, but TOR clearly doesnt want to right now. I dont know if they are intentionally putting off fixing it so as to not take away from the Battlefront hype or what but noone is this stupid, no team of developers that were good enough to create this game could suddenly goes dumb as a box of rocks. The thing that concerns me the most in TOR is that they arent even trying to address the real issues at this point, just giving out immunities and CCs to try to balance the broken system

 

I've been thinking about downloading GW2 again, especially since my favorite class in all fantasy (druids) will be coming as a Ranger specialization. It would be nice to play a game not so dependent on CC.

[foxmob]

I'm convinced devs were traumatized back in 1.whenever it was and got face tanked by a few mandos. Since then their bottom lip starts involuntarily quivering and salt streams forth whenever they think about balancing them.

 

heh. nice one.

[BrokenTangent]

I main a merc, and have for a long, long time. But if this change goes through to 4.0, I'm going to abandon the class (and most likely, the entire game not long after I finish the Kotfe storyline).

 

It's remarkable to me how a group of people can be so completely detached from the reality of how a class performs for the sheer amount of time BW has managed to be. My expectations of them have nosedived off a cliff in the past year, and frankly now I'm just relieved that they manage to keep the servers from burning up in a fire due to incompetence. Wishing for some semblance of real balance among the under-performing classes (merc/sniper) has become nothing more than a distant hope that I see as being very unlikely in the distant future.

 

The next time I hear metrics mentioned, I'm going to politely suggest they take their metrics, and stick them up their rears. And then (for once) consider actually PLAYING the class to see how terribly it's performing in pvp.

[-Bob-]

GW2, hmmm

Maybe I'll try and get back into that game.

[Floplag]

I've been thinking about downloading GW2 again, especially since my favorite class in all fantasy (druids) will be coming as a Ranger specialization. It would be nice to play a game not so dependent on CC.

 

Im enjoying it a lot, i sent you some info. The base game is free so if nothing else it will be a nice option to have once you finish the TOR chapters over the weekend and have to wait a month for new content

[Floplag]

Since there is some interest in GW2 it seems, check out the server "Henge of Denravi" if you give it a go. It has a good base across all time zones and active in all areas.

If anyone wants more info shoot me a PM, i dont want to hijack there thread any further than i already have

Edited September 22, 2015 by Floplag

[Transcendent]

finish the TOR chapters over the weekend and have to wait a month for new content

 

"You're doing it wrong" as another Mandalorian would say. I'm simply going to do the chapters, unless forced scaling is presented, and unsub until they've released the rest of it. I've no reason to stay in the meantime, PvP is naff for Mercs and there is no other PvE content such as new operations etc planned for this year. Don't see the point. I could level my operative and use that for PvP, but at this stage in the game with no new PvP maps and pretty pathetic balance I've got to the stage where my interest has waned.

 

Luckily lots of new games are on the close horizon. Well that's this thread hijacked.

 

[RvaKun]

Remove mercs from the game already. Too many bad ones.. Floplag being the worst of course lol Edited September 23, 2015 by RvaKun

[Glower]

Remove mercs from the game already. Too many good ones..

 

Fixed for ya! Skill/population ratio does not work with their metrics very well. I bet those 10-20 mercs per server in 4.0 pvp will ruin all these metrics once again, which will lead to new mercs nerf in 4.0+.

[Floplag]

Remove mercs from the game already. Too many bad ones.. Floplag being the worst of course lol

 

yeah i know, its a curse

[lavatsunami]

I don't like the change for either the merc or the pt. The majority of our moves for a pt are ranged, so why nerf hydraulic overrides and then give us a charge we don't want?

 

At least with the merc you are getting a move you can actually use, although having to attach a utility point to it is pretty dumb.

 

I'm pretty mad about it overall because I'm a diehard bounty hunter/trooper fan. Been playing IO merc and loving it.

 

Not to mention that two talent points for the pt are tied to hydraulic overrides, which could potentially make them useless, and one talent point for the merc is tied to it as well (same one for both).