Nico Okarr's Coat - What a disappointment

[Reno_Tarshil]

When you were a kid, you probably got those "free" prizes in the box of cereal, or the "free" toy with your fast food kids' meal. But what you come to understand as you grow up and start paying for things yourself is that none of those items were ever truly free, as their cost was factored into what you paid for the product they came with. They were included as an enticement to get people to buy the more expensive brand or product instead of cheaper alternatives which did not include such offers. It's a marketing gimmick, plain and simple. But make no mistake, you do most definitely pay for those items, and they are not free.

 

The exact same thing is true of these digital bonus items being given away to subscribers. Nico, his blasters, his coat, etc., are all being given away "free with subscription" as an enticement to get players to subscribe instead of playing free or preferred. But there is a development cost and paid man hours to develop those items (although the quality of the items indicates that BW is trying to keep such costs at the barest minimum), and BW has to pay those costs somehow. Make no mistake that those costs are factored into your subscription, and you have paid for them.

 

Your subscription gets you monthly access to the game. That access includes regular maintenance and fixes of the game and its content, as well as events and other updates used to keep customers paying and playing. The KotFE bonus items, and the expansion itself, are all part of that subscription payment. BW uses a portion of each subscription to fund continued development of the game (such is the nature of MMOs, or any ongoing service), and the expense for each of these comes from that allocated budget. There is an opportunity cost involved, so you could also consider that you have paid for these items in terms of giving up whatever else would have been done with that development money in order to receive them. But however you look at it, when the items are being given as part of paid service or product, they are not in any way "free", and to believe such is ignorance.

 

As my high school physics teacher was fond of saying, "there is no free lunch in the universe." The cost for everything has to come from somewhere, and the cost for these items is coming directly from the subscribers who receive them.

 

You are being given free bonus perks for being a subscriber by Bioware without any additional charge to you. Enticement or not, they are still being given away for free to those who qualify for them. You can try to discount them as not being free in the sense you are describing but that still doesn't change the fact that you are being given them for "Free".

[Reno_Tarshil]

Your late night info-mercial based opinions are certainly unassailable.

 

Who would waste time watching info-mercials when Billy Mayz is dead?

[Blackbird]

False you are buying 1 item and being given another item for free for purchasing said item. Just like Bioware is giving subscribers free things for being subscribers. Please try to keep up with your lack of understanding.

 

You are being given free bonus perks for being a subscriber by Bioware without any additional charge to you. Enticement or not, they are still being given away for free to those who qualify for them. You can try to discount them as not being free in the sense you are describing but that still doesn't change the fact that you are being given them for "Free".

 

All I can say is that you need to go take a high school economics course if you really think any of the above is "free".

 

At the very least, you owe it to yourself to go look up the term "opportunity cost", and understand how it applies to this situation.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Blackbird

[Monumenta]

 

"THE ADVENTURE BEGINS ON OCTOBER 27th, FREE FOR ALL SUBSCRIBERS!

 

PREPARE TO FACE YOUR DESTINY."

 

You were saying?

 

The adventure begins for free for all subs as it says, your false equivalency to the bonuses only proves you are a know-it-all that is willing to use any means to prove yourself on a forum, you've already proved yourself lacking in reason or basic intellectual discourse to most of us, good luck on your wafflings.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Monumenta

[Reno_Tarshil]

All I can say is that you need to go take a high school economics course if you really think any of the above is "free".

 

Bioware isn't making you jump thru any extra hoops or pay any extra costs (Which they have with the last two expansions) and in return they are giving you extra rewards for free for being a subscriber. If you can't see how that is free, then you need to read again. Again it's not hard to understand how you are getting stuff for free.

[Reno_Tarshil]

The adventure begins for free for all subs as it says, your false equivalency to the bonuses only proves you are a know-it-all that is willing to use any means to prove yourself on a forum, you've already proved yourself lacking in reason or basic intellectual discourse to most of us, good luck on your wafflings.

 

You asked where it was said the expansion was free to subscribers and I showed you. No need to get upset at me for helping you out. Also I love waffles.

[Monumenta]

You asked where it was said the expansion was free to subscribers and I showed you. No need to get upset at me for helping you out. Also I love waffles.

 

Nope, i asked you to show where the bonuses were referred to as free but I don't expect you to follow a basic logic sequence as you have proved this is impossible for you. Also, I don't believe it is in your power to upset anyone with this moronic string of free claims you are making, certainly not me, most of us are probably just worried about weather you have the ability to take care of yourself in your day to day given your inability to reason through this very basic mental exercise. Take care, enjoy your waffles.

[JourrnoRush]

Lol I wasn't going to use that coat anyways because everyone and their mother will have it.

 

I'm putting him in just his undies dyed pink

[Eanelinea]

Hate to burst your bubble, but you're going to be beta testing the game for BioWare, so they can fix the f**kups they've left in there for the real release date. Let alone the new server lag that'll be introduced into the game making it nigh on unplayable for everyone in that week.

 

We've seen it on every expansion so far, there isn't any reason to think it'll be different this time around either.

 

Oh, I know perfectly well I'll be beta testing their **** since they're not. Hell, almost a year later and the SoR romance intros are still broken on Imperial side. THIS is why they should have only had two intros. One for those who romanced and one for those who didn't. Instead of three, one for romancers, one for non romancers, and those who were stupid and didn't get all 5 of their companions or finish their class story.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Nope, i asked you to show where the bonuses were referred to as free but I don't expect you to follow a basic logic sequence as you have proved this is impossible for you. Also, I don't believe it is in your power to upset anyone with this moronic string of free claims you are making, certainly not me, most of us are probably just worried about weather you have the ability to take care of yourself in your day to day given your inability to reason through this very basic mental exercise. Take care, enjoy your waffles.

 

Nope your exact words were:

 

Buy one get one is 2 items at half price each, you are really trying very hard to prove your lack of critical thinking skills here.

 

Can you link a dev post or add for KotFE where the word free is used? nope can't, cuz nothing free was offered...

 

You only asked about KOTFE and the usage of the word free. I showed you what you asked. No need to try and back track. Also I will enjoy my waffles. Is that why you're upset? Because you don't have "Free" waffles? I'll share some of mine so you can have "free" waffles too.

[Eanelinea]

I don't care how many of you keep on thinking that because you are paying your subscription, like you are supposed to, to be subbed and get your subscriber rewards, that the expansion isn't free.

 

IT IS FREE.

 

IT IS FREE.

 

IT IS FREE!

 

You're NOT paying more money than your normal monthly, semi-yearly, or yearly subscription. Doesn't matter if you buy time cards every month or not.

 

THE EXPANSION IS PART OF YOUR SUBSCRIPTION! HENCE IT IS FREE!

 

Yes, you are paying for SOMETHING, but the expansion isn't one of them. It's PART of your subscription. Whether you wait until October 26th to subscribe or have been subbed non-stop since the game released, it's *********** free.

 

If you paid EXTRA money for the expansion, then and only then, it wouldn't be free.

 

Seriously, how hard is it for you guys to comprehend this? It's free.

 

The end.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

False you are buying 1 item and being given another item for free for purchasing said item. Just like Bioware is giving subscribers free things for being subscribers. Please try to keep up with your lack of understanding.

 

Also:

 

http://www.swtor.com/fallen-empire

 

"THE ADVENTURE BEGINS ON OCTOBER 27th, FREE FOR ALL SUBSCRIBERS!

 

PREPARE TO FACE YOUR DESTINY."

 

You were saying?

 

Added emphasis.

 

Pretty sure they've put that on every piece of promotional material that also includes the word "free" and, in that context, it's the truth. It is free, for subscribers. You already pay your subscription fee, which gains you all the benefits a subscription has always given, and you get whatever the bonus item was on top for no additional charge. You're not paying for the jacket, you're paying for the subscription.

 

I'd probably agree with those that are complaining too, honestly... if it wasn't for the fact that Bioware made it clear this was going to be a reskin of the Troublemaker Duster from the start. Here's the promotional image of the jacket from the link above. Troublemaker Duster. Here's the promotional image for Nico from that same link. Still the Troublemaker Duster. You're free to dislike that they reskinned it but you weren't misled into believing it was something else. The promotional pictures they put up of Nico use that jacket and those promotional pictures have been up since the perks were announced. So if you subscribed for the jacket and the jacket alone, you subscribed for that jacket and you're getting what you "paid for" (plus the added perks of the free monthly subscription that came along with your jacket, if we're gonna assume you paid for the jacket).

 

My honest opinion, I wouldn't be upset if they made a new model but I'm not upset about a reskinned Troublemaker Duster either. To my knowledge there are only two jackets for Republic characters that have that look, the Troublemaker Duster and the Subversive Jacket, neither of which are cheap on my server (Subversive is 770k while there isn't a single Troublemaker Duster up outside of the full armor set, which is 9 million at the moment). So getting one for free is fine by me, will probably end up using it on an outfit for my Gunslinger and maybe as some armor for one of my Sentinels' Doc. Can understand why people would feel differently but I disagree with acting like you've been lied to. Those promotional pictures have been up since June.

Edited September 11, 2015 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[Monumenta]

Nope your exact words were:

 

 

 

You only asked about KOTFE and the usage of the word free. I showed you what you asked. No need to try and back track. Also I will enjoy my waffles. Is that why you're upset? Because you don't have "Free" waffles? I'll share some of mine so you can have "free" waffles too.

 

We were talking about the bonuses when I asked the question, so again, you are the only person backtracking, that's that logic I was referring to which I already pointed out you do not possess.

 

You enjoy your 'free' items when 4.0 drops, the rest of us will be fine with our bonus items, either disappointed or not.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Monumenta

[Aeristash]

When you were a kid, you probably got those "free" prizes in the box of cereal, or the "free" toy with your fast food kids' meal. But what you come to understand as you grow up and start paying for things yourself is that none of those items were ever truly free, as their cost was factored into what you paid for the product they came with. They were included as an enticement to get people to buy the more expensive brand or product instead of cheaper alternatives which did not include such offers. It's a marketing gimmick, plain and simple. But make no mistake, you do most definitely pay for those items, and they are not free.

 

The exact same thing is true of these digital bonus items being given away to subscribers. Nico, his blasters, his coat, etc., are all being given away "free with subscription" as an enticement to get players to subscribe instead of playing free or preferred. But there is a development cost and paid man hours to develop those items (although the quality of the items indicates that BW is trying to keep such costs at the barest minimum), and BW has to pay those costs somehow. Make no mistake that those costs are factored into your subscription, and you have paid for them.

 

Your subscription gets you monthly access to the game. That access includes regular maintenance and fixes of the game and its content, as well as events and other updates used to keep customers paying and playing. The KotFE bonus items, and the expansion itself, are all part of that subscription payment. BW uses a portion of each subscription to fund continued development of the game (such is the nature of MMOs, or any ongoing service), and the expense for each of these comes from that allocated budget. There is an opportunity cost involved, so you could also consider that you have paid for these items in terms of giving up whatever else would have been done with that development money in order to receive them. But however you look at it, when the items are being given as part of paid service or product, they are not in any way "free", and to believe such is ignorance.

 

As my high school physics teacher was fond of saying, "there is no free lunch in the universe." The cost for everything has to come from somewhere, and the cost for these items is coming directly from the subscribers who receive them.

 

No I'm sorry that is very incorrect. Subscribers didn't pay for anything. When you pay your 15 dollars for your sub, you are paying for obligatory access to the base game, content updates & full features. That's the extent of your contract on the exchange of goods for services. The terms of your contract do not state you are obligated to enter any other entity that you have not purchased access to such as hutt cartel, shadow of revan or kotfe since these are each different game entities. As soon as you log into the game and Bioware has honored the contract by providing you access, your 15 dollars becomes their 15 dollars. It is no longer yours and you have no merit to claim entitlement to it. If they so choose to take their money, finance a new project and provide it as no extra charge to the base access you pay for, then this is indeed free, as it is outside the original contract and you are not obligated to have access at all. Just because you buy a pizza and they use the proceeds from your order to purchase more product doesn't entitle you to a seat at the investors table. It's just a monetary exchange of goods & services.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Aeristash

[Reno_Tarshil]

We were talking about the bonuses when I asked the question, so again, you are the only person backtracking, that's that logic I was referring to which I already pointed out you do not possess.

 

You enjoy your 'free' items when 4.0 drops, the rest of us are fine with our bonus items, either disappointing or not.

 

The expansion is included in the bonuses and was included as part of my discussion about the free rewards being given out. (Your original quote of me where you asked proves this) So I was following the flow of the conversation just fine. You however were not specific in what you were asking for. You simply asked where KOTFE was associated with the word free. I showed you what you asked. You are back tracking because you weren't specific enough at first and it bugs you that you were wrong.

 

But I'm glad you're going to be fine with your free bonus rewards for being a subscriber.

[JourrnoRush]

I don't care how many of you keep on thinking that because you are paying your subscription, like you are supposed to, to be subbed and get your subscriber rewards, that the expansion isn't free.

 

IT IS FREE.

 

IT IS FREE.

 

IT IS FREE!

 

You're NOT paying more money than your normal monthly, semi-yearly, or yearly subscription. Doesn't matter if you buy time cards every month or not.

 

THE EXPANSION IS PART OF YOUR SUBSCRIPTION! HENCE IT IS FREE!

 

Yes, you are paying for SOMETHING, but the expansion isn't one of them. It's PART of your subscription. Whether you wait until October 26th to subscribe or have been subbed non-stop since the game released, it's *********** free.

 

If you paid EXTRA money for the expansion, then and only then, it wouldn't be free.

 

Seriously, how hard is it for you guys to comprehend this? It's free.

 

The end.

 

You are 100% correct.

 

People here want more free, but don't want to be F2P. Just let them waste their subs crying on the forums, keeps the game I actually play afloat

[Blackbird]

I don't care how many of you keep on thinking that because you are paying your subscription, like you are supposed to, to be subbed and get your subscriber rewards, that the expansion isn't free.

 

IT IS FREE.

 

IT IS FREE.

 

IT IS FREE!

 

You're NOT paying more money than your normal monthly, semi-yearly, or yearly subscription. Doesn't matter if you buy time cards every month or not.

 

THE EXPANSION IS PART OF YOUR SUBSCRIPTION! HENCE IT IS FREE!

 

Yes, you are paying for SOMETHING, but the expansion isn't one of them. It's PART of your subscription. Whether you wait until October 26th to subscribe or have been subbed non-stop since the game released, it's *********** free.

 

If you paid EXTRA money for the expansion, then and only then, it wouldn't be free.

 

Seriously, how hard is it for you guys to comprehend this? It's free.

 

The end.

 

I'll give you the same advice I gave that other fellow: "Opportunity cost", look it up. If you're paying a subscription, you're paying for this stuff. X% of your subscription pays for maintenance and further development of the game. When BW gives us a new shiny, it comes out of that X%, and in place of something else that those dollars could have funded instead. When they give out something visible like this, it usually comes at the expense of something less visible, such as time spent working on some other fix or upgrade that when accomplished would only get a short line in the patch notes instead of big enticing images on the loading screens.

 

So yes, you are paying for it; the money for it comes from your subscription. You just aren't getting something else that you normally would have for that subscription cost. No, it is not free.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Blackbird

[Monumenta]

The expansion is included in the bonuses and was included as part of my discussion about the free rewards being given out. (Your original quote of me where you asked proves this) So I was following the flow of the conversation just fine. You however were not specific in what you were asking for. You simply asked where KOTFE was associated with the word free. I showed you what you asked. You are back tracking because you weren't specific enough at first and it bugs you that you were wrong.

 

But I'm glad you're going to be fine with your free bonus rewards for being a subscriber.

 

Best straw man I've seen in awhile, congrats, line up for your idiot badge at your local union hall.

[Sorwen]

All I have to say is if you think you are getting anything for free then you are exactly the type of person companies and advertising agencies love.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Best straw man I've seen in awhile, congrats, line up for your idiot badge at your local union hall.

 

You need to calm down, it's okay to be wrong. I mean I understand that you thought that words KOTFE and Free weren't mentioned together, but when proven wrong because you failed to specify what you really meant, you got upset. I mean I would be upset as well if I got made a fool on the internet, but I have "free" waffles so I'm happy as a tacocat. Will that make you feel better? Some "free" waffles?

[neoraFIVE]

Added emphasis.

 

Pretty sure they've put that on every piece of promotional material that also includes the word "free" and, in that context, it's the truth. It is free, for subscribers. You already pay your subscription fee, which gains you all the benefits a subscription has always given, and you get whatever the bonus item was on top for no additional charge. You're not paying for the jacket, you're paying for the subscription.

 

I'd probably agree with those that are complaining too, honestly... if it wasn't for the fact that Bioware made it clear this was going to be a reskin of the Troublemaker Duster from the start. Here's the promotional image of the jacket from the link above. Troublemaker Duster. Here's the promotional image for Nico from that same link. Still the Troublemaker Duster. You're free to dislike that they reskinned it but you weren't misled into believing it was something else. The promotional pictures they put up of Nico use that jacket and those promotional pictures have been up since the perks were announced. So if you subscribed for the jacket and the jacket alone, you subscribed for that jacket and you're getting what you "paid for" (plus the added perks of the free monthly subscription that came along with your jacket, if we're gonna assume you paid for the jacket).

 

My honest opinion, I wouldn't be upset if they made a new model but I'm not upset about a reskinned Troublemaker Duster either. To my knowledge there are only two jackets for Republic characters that have that look, the Troublemaker Duster and the Subversive Jacket, neither of which are cheap on my server (Subversive is 770k while there isn't a single Troublemaker Duster up outside of the full armor set, which is 9 million at the moment). So getting one for free is fine by me, will probably end up using it on an outfit for my Gunslinger and maybe as some armor for one of my Sentinels' Doc. Can understand why people would feel differently but I disagree with acting like you've been lied to. Those promotional pictures have been up since June.

 

They altered the art for the Nico pic recently. New Art

[talonmke]

Here's a question for all those who called the devs lazy or who said the duster was a reskin (same with the blasters): Whoever said that you would be getting the duster or blaster from the trailer for the Republic prior to creating a Republic character? Did a dev specifically say that they'll use the assets from that trailer for Nico Okarr or did you imagine that they did and are getting upset because your imagined wish wasn't realized? I have not seen any dev make a statement about whether they'd be using the Duster as it looked in the trailer prior to character creation. So, I don't see why this whole thread is needed nor do I see the argument that it's a reskin. If you don't like the way that the duster looks, you don't have to keep it.

[Joesixxpack]

Here's a question for all those who called the devs lazy or who said the duster was a reskin (same with the blasters): Whoever said that you would be getting the duster or blaster from the trailer for the Republic prior to creating a Republic character? Did a dev specifically say that they'll use the assets from that trailer for Nico Okarr or did you imagine that they did and are getting upset because your imagined wish wasn't realized? I have not seen any dev make a statement about whether they'd be using the Duster as it looked in the trailer prior to character creation. So, I don't see why this whole thread is needed nor do I see the argument that it's a reskin. If you don't like the way that the duster looks, you don't have to keep it.

 

Still a Troublemaker reskin though isn't it

 

nogotcha4u.exe

[EnkiduNineEight]

It seems like the apologist crowd, including the 'I QUIT Forever!' shill are back at it again and failing to understand basic logic.

 

I think everyone understands that the 'free' download is part of being subscribed. BUT since you only get it IF you were subscribed AND only if you were subscribed by 'such and such' a date, then it is an inducement to subscribe.

 

Meaning, BioWare/EA is begging you to pay them a subscription fee and as a part of this subscription fee they will give you this item (these items).

 

So, given the inducement, people spent money to subscribe that they would not have normally spent on subscription (due to various reasons) in order to get a bonus.

 

The bonus they were promised was quite specific and there were numerous images available to entice the players into thinking that this may be a desirable item.

 

So, they are rightfully upset when the item turns out to be a simple re-skin of an existing item they may very well already have and just need to apply an available dye in order to make it look just the same.

 

They feel, perhaps rightfully, they were induced by a false promise.

 

Mind you, I was already subbed and remained subbed due to choosing a 6 month recurring subscription since prior to release. I don't have a pony in this race. I could take or leave the inducements.

 

But arguing semantics, and stretching like you are, is absolutely silly. Just admit that BioWare/EA was less than honest in their dealings here. If you tell me that depositing my money in your 15$ a year annual fee checking account by X date you'll give me 100 dollars, and then after I do so you laugh and point and say, HAHA He's 100 doll-hairs! get it? Hahahaha that I might be reasonably disappointed with you as a business and upset you induced me to spend money for something that you did not provide.

 

In this case the inducement was Nico's Duster. There are lots of images of Nico's duster and it was seen multiple times in a cinematic. People subscribed by such and such a date to specifically get 'Nico's Duster'. So allow them to be upset that they are not getting nico's duster, but an item already present in game given a new base color and named 'Noci's Duster' even though it doesn't even look like Nico's Duster.

 

Of all people Andryah 'I quit! because of BioWare's lies/CSM debacle' should be honest and _consistent_ and accept that people can be upset when they are sold a bill of goods that is not what was promised.

 

People spent money they would not have to obtain an item they are not receiving. They are getting a different item. One less desirable. Its not 'Free' because the ONLY way to obtain it was a cash transaction with BioWare by a certain date. If they missed that date, they do not receive the inducement. It is a specific request by the seller to purchase a product from them and in return receive an additional bonus. But cash HAS to change hands, so it is indeed not free.

Edited September 11, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[Reno_Tarshil]

Still a Troublemaker reskin though isn't it

 

nogotcha4u.exe

 

Yes in a sense. We just don't know if it's the good troublemaker variant or the bad troublemaker variant. (Basically one that has a dyable chest plate and one that doesn't. because the chest plate is mostly covered up in the promotional picture.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Reno_Tarshil