Conquest Changes in Fallen Empire

[TUXs]

How do you not reach your conquest goal? I only have 1 toon that crafts for conquest and I still get at least 3 others at the conquest goal by only doing pvp and gsf.

Maybe you play a lot more than I do...or you're not being honest about HOW you reach your goal on those toons. /shrug

[RougeSentinel]

Maybe you play a lot more than I do...or you're not being honest about HOW you reach your goal on those toons. /shrug

 

Your right i might do one or 2 group finder quests a couple of times a week. But I still only pvp and gsf on my non-crafter toon. It's not hard to reach conquest and I don't know why they need to lower the goal from 35k to 25k. Sure I might only get 1 or 2 toons to the 50k by only doing pvp or gsf, but i only spend 2-3 hours a day on the game.

[tmwfte]

Oh bull lol. You couldn't even hit your point cap by PvPing dude, don't try to pretend it's been anywhere near comparable to crafting...that just makes you look silly.

 

25000-50000 target. Depending on bonuses 250-750 per match, 500-1500 per win, 1000-3000 per weekly. Even if you lose every single match, don't have a bonus, and are siting at a minimal SH%, that will indeed take you a fair amount of time, but it is possible. You'd likely be PvP'ing all day, but that's really no different from the crafters, running dailies, weekly, gathering mats, farming credits, etc.

 

Pretending that it's ridiculous, is well...short-sighted.

[TUXs]

Your right i might do one or 2 group finder quests a couple of times a week. But I still only pvp and gsf on my non-crafter toon. It's not hard to reach conquest and I don't know why they need to lower the goal from 35k to 25k. Sure I might only get 1 or 2 toons to the 50k by only doing pvp or gsf, but i only spend 2-3 hours a day on the game.

Because they looked at the numbers and they determined that most players don't reach the cap...you didn't. That's probably why they're changing it...because they believe it'll increase Conquest participation and awareness...I doubt their intent is to upset and destroy crafters and make them quit the game.

[TUXs]

Pretending that it's ridiculous, is well...short-sighted.

Pretending it was ever competitive with crafting is ridiculous.

[DawnAskham]

Maybe you play a lot more than I do...or you're not being honest about HOW you reach your goal on those toons. /shrug

 

Lots of variables to consider.

 

Do you both have all four strongholds unlocked and filled (even with junk , IMO a dumb aspect of conquest)?

Does your guild park the ship on the planet with PVP bonuses?

Does your guild organize PVP / GSF matches?

 

Also honest question - if you aren't hitting conquest goals today, will this change do anything to help you hit your goal?

 

If not, what else do you feel Bioware should change in order to do so?

 

Anyways, I still contend that PVP / GSF have more repeatable / natural play-style (e.g. PVPers get repeatable points for doing what they would do anyway) objectives, and that the solution isn't to nerf PVP but rather to increase the number of repeatable objectives for all styles of play (and remove all the idiotic once per legacy restrictions).

 

Extra points to Bioware if they can achieve this without allowing absurdities like 1 million crafting points on one character or being able to kill the last boss in level 10 BT all day on a 65 for points or abusing Operations lock-outs to farm Group Finder / weekly ops bonus points.

Edited September 9, 2015 by DawnAskham

[RougeSentinel]

By the way why can't more people craft in the game to start with it's not very complicated. I mean do your pve, endgame, pvp, gsf, fsp, ops stuff gather mats while you're on and just queue up a couple for crafts while you're offline. If you say this isn't fair for f2p or pref because they don't get all 3 crew skill slots than the whole conquest idea isn't fair to f2p of pref because they only have a limited number of pvp, gsf battles to begin with. Crafting really isn't hard and if you don't get it just google it.

[TUXs]

Anyways, I still contend that PVP / GSF have more repeatable / natural play-style (e.g. PVPers get repeatable points for doing what they would do anyway) objectives, and that the solution isn't to nerf PVP but rather to increase the number of repeatable objectives for all styles of play (and remove all the idiotic once per legacy restrictions).

I agree 100% with you Dawn. FP's that are at the same level as the player, should absolutely be repeatable for Conquest points, assuming they make you complete the bonus boss and no exploits are found to circumvent DOING the actual content.

[DarthDymond]

Seems like a good change - regardless of the actually math involved, the fact that you could log in on the first day of a Conquest and see that some guilds already had hundreds of thousands of Conquest points really put a damper on the whole feature for me.

 

I hope they continue to fine-tune the system so that Crafting can play a significant role, just not an overwhelming one - and by the same token if this change does mean that PVP or some other specific game aspect becomes the only way to win, all the time, then I certainly hope they continue adjusting and tweaking things to prevent that as well.

[jedip_enguin]

I'm still not going to bother though...

[tmwfte]

What are they removing from the game exactly? The fact that crafting was the ONLY way to win Conquests? They should have done this MONTHS AGO!!! The way it works NOW, is bad for the game. Craft or don't even try.

 

I agree that removing content is bad for the game...removing Craftings monopoly on Conquests, isn't.

 

You seem to not understand what removing crafting from conquest causes. They've already nerfed the viability and utility of crafting for PvE through the basic comms increase and mod/enhancement/hilt+barrell price reduction. Now they're nerfing the one thing that still drives crew skills, crafting for conquest. Essentially, they're making it such that crew skills are even more worthless than they've been in the past.

 

It's not just about conquest.

 

Your reply would make sense if they were removing Conquests entirely, But they aren't. They are simply making changes to the way it works. Who's to say that the changes won't result in an increase in "player investment?"

 

Removing a way that players are currently invested in the game is not going to suddenly make them do things that they already have the opportunity to do but choose not to. Forcing people to play a certain way, to participate a certain way, is not going to lead to more people doing conquest, it's just going to lead to people stopping doing conquest at all.

 

Or do you really think that someone who contributes to conquest through crafting alone is suddenly going to do Operations and PvP? What about the f2p and pref player who ONLY contributed through crafting? Do you really think that this change is going to make them buy OPS and WZ passes?

[TUXs]

By the way why can't more people craft in the game to start with it's not very complicated. I mean do your pve, endgame, pvp, gsf, fsp, ops stuff gather mats while you're on and just queue up a couple for crafts while you're offline. If you say this isn't fair for f2p or pref because they don't get all 3 crew skill slots than the whole conquest idea isn't fair to f2p of pref because they only have a limited number of pvp, gsf battles to begin with. Crafting really isn't hard and if you don't get it just google it.

I don't like it. That's all. Some people despise PvP, I hate crafting. You're not better than me, I'm not better than you...neither of us is right or wrong, just human and we like different things.

[TUXs]

You seem to not understand what removing crafting from conquest causes. They've already nerfed the viability and utility of crafting for PvE through the basic comms increase and mod/enhancement/hilt+barrell price reduction. Now they're nerfing the one thing that still drives crew skills, crafting for conquest. Essentially, they're making it such that crew skills are even more worthless than they've been in the past.

 

It's not just about conquest.

Stop being so dramatic lol. They're just making it so that crafting doesn't monopolize Conquests...that's it. My crews skills don't change with this at all.

[Heat-Wave]

Because they looked at the numbers and they determined that most players don't reach the cap...you didn't. That's probably why they're changing it...because they believe it'll increase Conquest participation and awareness...I doubt their intent is to upset and destroy crafters and make them quit the game.

 

How does removing a way to conquest, without adding a new one, increase conquest participation?

 

Lowering the goal to 20k? Yes, maybe... But that assumes the old 35k cap was the reason people didn't do it before.

 

That is an assumption, one I don't agree with. The problem with conquest are the rewards are designed for just two types of players. Crafters (the jawa stuff), and guilds trying to build a guild ship (encryptions). If conquest awarded a random piece of cartel loot, something from a pack (make the loot table everything from every pack, one item), then you might find more interest.

 

Lacking interesting rewards, the problem for conquest is that it really isn't new, it is just running old content over and over. Running a random FP or GF operation doesn't really have anything to do with invading Taris, now does it?

[TUXs]

I'm still not going to bother though...

 

YES YOU WILL! AND YOU'LL LIKE IT!!!

 

Ya know...that never worked for vegetables or chores...but it may work for Conquests...

[madlinn]

You want to know why anybody will reach for the weekly goal - this is what we found - lol

Crystal of Nightmare Fury:

5x Flagship Plans: Logistical Encryption

5x Flagship Plans: Command Encryption

5x Flagship Plans: Engineering Encryption

Use: Increases your damage, healing and health while in a Nightmare Mode Operation. Will be removed if you leave the area.

source

[TUXs]

How does removing a way to conquest, without adding a new one, increase conquest participation?

Crafting isn't being removed...the crafting monopoly is.

[Psychopyro]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by not being able to craft AFK, though...

 

What I was saying is that with this change, crafting AFK is a moot point to bring up. Since (except for 3 weeks) it is a one off objective, you can't do it anymore.

[Faardor]

tl;dr this thread

- Crafting is / was king (and toxic to conquest)

- PvP is secondary

- Buff PVE objectives or nerf PvP objectives

plenty of people have already pointed out why and you can always look at your metrics.

- making conquest be a minimum of 5 planets or more per week would be a GREAT help as well (as others have pointed out)

- Small guilds shouldn't win conquest (at least not through crafting, 5 people with 10-20 alts shouldn't grind out millions of points while a non crafting guild with 500 members who have like 5-20 players on at all times is struggling to get by. Yes hyperbole example w/e)

- Buff rewards / incentives to do conquest.

[tmwfte]

Stop being so dramatic lol. They're just making it so that crafting doesn't monopolize Conquests...that's it. My crews skills don't change with this at all.

 

You've already stated that you hate crafting. This is clearly a case of you don't understand. It's not the way that you play, so you don't care about the people that it does effect and its wider implications. I don't think anyone is saying that crafting has to remain the same in conquest, or that there isn't an issue, but they're nerfing it down to next to nothing, which will indeed have an impact overall on the game. They've already eliminated one of the purposes of crew skills, now they're eliminating another, were it not for augments, crafting would be near completely pointless now.

 

But hey, look at all that great new OPS and FPS content they're giving us with KotFE by scaling them up. Isn't that just great?

[Heat-Wave]

Stop being so dramatic lol. They're just making it so that crafting doesn't monopolize Conquests...that's it. My crews skills don't change with this at all.

 

Actually, he has a fair point, one you dismiss with a wave of your hand. You don't craft, so frankly you don't really understand what he is talking about,

 

He is correct, when hilts, barrels, and armor prices were dropped from 7/10 basic comms down to 2/4 basic comms, that really did hurt crafting. I used to do a decent business selling those items, but no longer.

 

Frankly crafting has been reduced to augments, and only three crafting skills make those. The other three crafting skills are largely worthless now. Yes, bio makes stims, but the price of stims was crushed in 3.0 due to grade 11 bio mats being made common as dirt, compared to grade 9 being much more rare before 3.0 (because using bio on a dead creature gives the same mats as a node for grade 11, while grade 9 creatures gave far less.)

[Heat-Wave]

Crafting isn't being removed...the crafting monopoly is.

 

You completely missed the point and did not answer the question.

 

So removing the crafting monopoly will stop crafters from conquesting... How does that get people who were not interested before to start caring? Remember, the rewards from conquest are largely of interest only to crafters and guilt ship builders.

 

You are making the assumption that this change will increase the number of players who care about conquest. I don't think it will.

[tmwfte]

You completely missed the point and did not answer the question.

 

So removing the crafting monopoly will stop crafters from conquesting... How does that get people who were not interested before to start caring? Remember, the rewards from conquest are largely of interest only to crafters and guilt ship builders.

 

You are making the assumption that this change will increase the number of players who care about conquest. I don't think it will.

 

I would agree with this. It really does nothing to bolster interest, it just removes one party that was interested before.

[Heat-Wave]

You've already stated that you hate crafting. This is clearly a case of you don't understand. It's not the way that you play, so you don't care about the people that it does effect and its wider implications. I don't think anyone is saying that crafting has to remain the same in conquest, or that there isn't an issue, but they're nerfing it down to next to nothing, which will indeed have an impact overall on the game. They've already eliminated one of the purposes of crew skills, now they're eliminating another, were it not for augments, crafting would be near completely pointless now.

 

But hey, look at all that great new OPS and FPS content they're giving us with KotFE by scaling them up. Isn't that just great?

 

TUXs is usually much more understand and even headed about things, his replies here surprise me. He is taking a very head in the sand approach about this, which isn't like him.

 

The irony is that I do agree crafting was how you win conquest, but as you say, they are nerfing it into the ground. biowarfare doesn't do middle ground, sad to say.

 

Crafting perhaps should have been limited to 25x per week, so you could hit your personal goal with it, but not hit a million points with it. Making it once per week, per legacy, makes it worthless.

[TUXs]

You completely missed the point and did not answer the question.

 

So removing the crafting monopoly will stop crafters from conquesting... How does that get people who were not interested before to start caring? Remember, the rewards from conquest are largely of interest only to crafters and guilt ship builders.

 

You are making the assumption that this change will increase the number of players who care about conquest. I don't think it will.

I was very interested when Conquests were first released. I'd hit my goal every week because I was focused on it...we'd do content as a guild that was focused on it.

 

Once Crafting became the only way to compete, we all gave up on Conquests.

 

When Conquests were released, I'd tell everyone about it and PvPers as well as PvEers would all join in on whatever we were doing for points...since Crafting has become the norm, I haven't bothered to tell one returning/new player about it because it's pointless imo. By lowering the personal caps AND removing the crafting monopoly, new players, and old, may be drawn back into it.