Game Update 4.0 Class Changes: Jedi Knight + Sith Warrior

[Icestar]

Blade dance, I think of war dancers then.

[Ichikai]

I do not think the developers are lazy, underpaid, or don't play the game. In fact, I think they have probably put a lot of time and effort into the KotFE expansion and class updates/changes, are paid decent enough, and love to play the game.

 

I don't know, everything about KOTFE sounds like a rushed expansion with the sole goal of riding the new movie hype in an attempt to attract the new fans, while totally ignoring their older playerbase. To give them an instant level 60, and what would be for them all new content with the scaled up Operations and Flashpoints.

If I were a new player all this would be totally awesome.

They're not lazy, nor underpaid. But they're not playing the game that you might think, they're playing the business game.

 

Is ignoring your loyal playerbase worth it for a cashgrab? Apparently so... I hope it doesn't blow up in their face. Though I think most will be put off by the F2P model, maybe they'll stick around because Bad Dash sounds so "fun" right?

Edited September 7, 2015 by Ichikai

[TapVallian]

I got to agree with this ^

 

Changing utilities seems rather poorly thought out. Gaining 5 levels to just to get back something you have had for over a year and all under the guise of power restraint? I don't but it.

 

Do something similar to what nala said,

Don't allow another utility point at 65.

Create a passive

 

Hell, they could allow an extra utility point because most of those things aren't all that great to start with. One extra point isn't going to cause some major power level jump or imbalance.

This readjustment seems way off. Today you have seven points. Tomorrow you will only have 6. This way you get to work yourself back to what you have had. UGH.....

 

This is exactly what I thought when I read the changes. All of it really and the post that was previously quoted but specifically what I highlighted in red.

[Ryuku-sama]

This is exactly what I thought when I read the changes. All of it really and the post that was previously quoted but specifically what I highlighted in red.

 

Sorc Could get BubbleStun, Electric Bindings AND Emersion. That would enhance Sorc's kiting power tenfold. Assassin, Operatives, PT.. Even Snipers and Merc would gain a lot of power with just an extra Masterful utility.

[Grieverheart]

I can't believe you guys are taking away a utility point that I earned by reaching 60. Are you daft? If anything, we should get another at 65. I am getting sick and tired of the stupidity you folks at Bioware continue to come up with. I appreciate the fact that you are doing things more class focused and story based for the expansion, but taking things away and then giving it back as a reward for leveling to 65 is retarded.

[Bugattiboy]

Yeah it's retarded. They've done it before (RotHC & SoR), they'll do it again, and keep doing it until it stops making money.

 

In other games you get stronger, get new skills, and get a nice chunk of new content in expansions. In expansions for EA games however, you re-grind the last 5 levels, get skills taken away from you, and play the same recycled content.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Bugattiboy

[Lord_of_Mu]

I went a head and did some searching on the net. It seems like every other class is getting similar movement related ability or something related to survival. I guess Christmas is coming early for the pvp community. Edited September 8, 2015 by Lord_of_Mu

[Asheris]

I went a head and did some searching on the net. It seems like every other class is getting similar movement related ability or something related to survival. I guess Christmas is coming early for the pvp community.

 

It will be insane. Everyone will be jumping, teleporting(!), dashing...or we will be standing in stunlocks like we do now. Only time will tell

[Alanbra]

I kind of wonder if pvp matches will be determined by who has a better server connection. I know I've been knocked into acid on my operative, rolled out of it, started healing myself, and then died from acid because the server thought I was still there. Make that 16 people on a map teleporting around, and I don't know how the engine will handle it.

[Lord_of_Mu]

It will be insane. Everyone will be jumping, teleporting(!), dashing...or we will be standing in stunlocks like we do now. Only time will tell

 

Every pvp match will be made up entirely of people avoiding combat.

[Captjohnsavage]

I think mad dash could be good if it grants an immunity and if you can mad dash at your target. when you mad dash a target it either knock-back the target or stuns/interrupts target doesn't make sense to dash away just to have them leap right to you anyway or just cc you when you stop also a knock-back or reverse stun would give you time to turn and reengage the target Edited September 8, 2015 by Captjohnsavage

[Fordbird]

I really don't understand what the combat team is thinking. Ok, mad dash to reduce all the stun lock crap that goes on in pvp...I kinda get that. But wasn't our gore window reduced to 3 seconds to get players to stop using ravage/master strike succinctly with it? Most of us have stopped using master strike for anything but a filler in pvp because of a long channel and telegraphed animation that almost always gets interrupted or stunned/knocked back (on sentinel/marauder)....so what is our new ability?....some lame burn/bleed attached to "blade dance" that will get interrupted/stunned/knocked back. I can see its use in pve but it will be a completely worthless ability in pvp. Some form of <unremitting> like the guardians/juggernauts have should be attached to this for Sents/maras to make it worth anything. Just mho

[Atalantia]

The utility point change is not real fun.

 

Why not add another utility point in that first group tier one at lvl 11 and keep the rest you have listed

[Kaizersan]

The utility point change is not real fun.

 

Why not add another utility point in that first group tier one at lvl 11 and keep the rest you have listed

 

Probably because a lot of classes become over power with 8 utility points.

[KaellSolaris]

Hello,

 

This is an HONEST AND CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK about your blog of 4.0 class changes : Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior

 

 

About General Class + Combat Changes :

 

Well, even if we lose an utility point after 4.0, we will get it back at level 65, if these change can help for later ok, but not every time we raise our levels.

 

 

Theses change will impact leveling, and also battleground brackets, do you intend to change the brackets level or do they stay as they are since last changes ?

 

 

 

About Warrior/Jedi Knight

 

Mad Dash - Blade Blitz

 

During previous feedback on Marauder - Sentinel forum, there was some people who launch the idea of such ability, and I'm glad to see that you listen to us and pick up that idea.

 

However, Mad Dash - Blade Blitz is the exact same ability for Juggernaut - Guardian and Marauder - Sentinel, and unfortunately, Juggernaut - Guardian already have a better movement capacity due to their abilities (Force Push), current utilities (Warmonger - Battlefield Command, Through Power - True Harmony) and the future skillful utility Unshackling Rage/Focused Freedom (When activated, Enrage/Combat Focus removes movement-impairing effects (immobilizes and slows) and increases the Juggernaut's/Guardian’s movement speed by 50% for the next 6 seconds.)

 

The needs of Juggernaut - Guardian and Marauder - Sentinel in mobility are not the same, is it intended to give to them exact same ability ? and to increase even more of Juggernaut's - Guardian's mobility option via utility ?

 

Another point is the range of Mad Dash - Blade Blitz , 20 meter is quite far and might cause several issues. It raises several questions :

 

 

 

• If I Pursue a target and she is closer than 20 meter, I risk to go through her and be as far as is was before using it
   
   
  
• In an operation if I used it I might risk to go through the boss and take damage that I should not be supposed to take, I might end my dash too far from the healers, and die. Is Mad Dash - Blade Blitz supposed to be add to our cycle in pve ?
   
   
  
• Is it slashing every target around us when we activated hit ( meaning slashing target in our back while we are moving away ) or do we absolutely have to face our target to damage it ?
   
   
  
• How is it supposed to be used by tank ? (I believe it can be use when a tank have to move the boss around, but if a tank want to benefit from the 100 % defense for a few moment and need to keep the boss exactly how he is, how is it supposed to be used safely for the raid group ?)
  

 

 

Suggestion :

 

 

• For Marauder - Sentinel :

 

Lower the CD of Mad Dash - Blade Blitz to 30 seconds, reduce his range to 12 meters and allow them to use it a second time 10seconds after the first dash.

 

This is voluntary very similar to the Operative's Exfiltrate and Scoundrel's Scamper, allowing 2 charges mean more flexibility in Marauder's - Sentinel's mobility, allowing them to rectify their trajectory. In addition the CD is lower to 30 seconds, because Marauder - Sentinel do not benefit from the same mobility as Juggernaut - Guardian

 

 

• For Juggernaut - Guardian:

 

Mad Dash - Blade Blitz can be very useful for tank, but it can be even more if they have the choice to benefit of the 100% defense while standing in position.

 

If you considerer that Juggernaut - Guardian tank already have enough protection, then no problem , let Mad Dash - Blade Blitz as it is, it fine.

 

But if you consider that it could be an interesting feature, then give tank the possibility to deactivate for a moment Mad Dash's - Blade Blitz's while conserving the 100 % defense ( in other word, doing it while not moving).

 

For example : during the 4.5 sec after a Smash - Force Sweep , your next Mad Dash - Blade Blitz will not move your character position (Smash - Force Sweep is just an example, that could be any other tank ability).

 

 

 

Blade Dance

 

There's a huge disappointment about this point, many people thought behind the change of name there was also a complete revision of this ability (like when you change Consumption - Noble Sacrifice on Sorcerer - Sage to become Consuming Darkness - Vindicate) and Blade Dance - Ravage will be able to be used while moving.

 

It was even more logic, because you allow Assassin- Shadow in tank discipline to use their Depredating Volts - Cascading Debris to be channeled while moving, so when you add Defensive Slashes/Defensive Swings (Ravage/Blade Dance grants a stacking increase to defense chance with each hit (stacks up to 3 times)) to Juggernaut - Guardian tank, i believe most of people think Ravage - Blade Dance will be able to be use while moving (after all, why would it be allow to move while channeling to Assassin - Shadow).

 

Last argument in favor of a Ravage - Blade Dance while moving: you give it yourself in the Developer blogs :

 

In Game Update 4.0, we wanted to increase the mobility of these formidable combatants in order to allow them to realize their full potential on the battle field, and to make them more difficult to kite.

 

Source : http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20150904

 

Ravage - Blade Dance is the only ability witch force us to stop moving while performing an attack, it cause many issue and if you want to improve our mobility, apply to it the same treatment you do to Depredating Volts - Cascading Debris.

 

Do you considered the possibility of allowing Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight to use Ravage - Blade Dance while moving ?

 

 

Suggestion :

 

 

Allow the use of Blade Dance - Ravage while moving.

 

This change will probably have a big impact on Jedi Knight - Sith Warrior mobility, all these disciplines will be able to stick in melee range while moving out of dangerous area.

 

( PS: if you intent to give us while moving, but not before you rework the animation, then no problem , just tell us and we will wait, i know it can take time to make a nice animation ).

 

 

 

utilities

 

- You have decided to add one more utility per tier, and this change is not welcome, many people are not fan of it and would have prefer an improvement of existing utility rather than new one.

 

Do you intent to keep 8 utility per tier ? or do you consider the possibility to go back to 7 par tier and an improvement " none popular " utilities ?

 

 

- Another point, since 3.0, utilities were design to impact on a few aspect of our characters :

• Defense
  
• Movement
  
• Enemies Control
  

 

The effect of these utility impact only on cooldown, improvement of abilities, and there wasn't any utility witch directly impacting on dps.

 

Then you tell us about a new utility : War Bringer/Ardent Advocate(Force Charge/Leap enables your next Vicious Throw/Dispatch to be used on a target with any health level for 15 seconds after activation) and there is a lot of question about this :

 

Is it intended to have a utility which can be use to improve dps ? don't you fear every Juggernaut -Guardian take it and add their Force charge - Force leap in their PVE rotation to benefit from it

 

How is it supposed to interact with Juggernaut -Guardian passive Destroyer - Keening witch do almost the same thing (without the Rage - Focus cost reduction), but trigger from Blade Dance - Ravage and Bleed - Burn effects) ?

 

 

- About Through Victory - Cut Loose (Mad Dash - Blade Blitz can be used while immobilized and purges immobilization and slow effects when activated), We already have a lot of utility dedicated to improve our movement, for example:

 

Why would I use this utility as a Marauder - Sentinel when I already have on the Heroic tier Unbound - Fleetfooted and Expunging Camouflage witch do already the same effect ? Furthermore, Unbound - Fleetfooted can be apply to a group - raid and Expunging Camouflage is much more powerful to flee from fight or run after a target, so why would i pick up such an utility while I already have 2 which are much more powerfull ?

 

Same argument for Juggernaut - Guardian, they have even more movement abilities, to allow them to move around freely.

 

Why would we choose such utility when we already have other witch are doing the same kind of effect on shorter cd ?

 

 

Suggestion :

 

 

Keep the 7 utility per tier and improve the existing utilities.

 

More utility can be interesting with more utility point, but at the moment some utility are not as interesting as others, and we don't really need more utility, instead if you can improve utility then we will more choice in our character customization.

[DarthBubba]

I can't tell you how disappointing this is. One of the main reasons for moving to Disciplines was to avoid having so many key powers come later and later in a character's career because of level cap increases. And what do you do? The very next time you do a level cap increase, you push everything back. Especially annoying is that everyone when they log in in 4.0 will have lost a utility choice that they had the day before.

 

If you don't want inflation, then just don't give a choice at 65. Or make it some weak passive that we get.

 

Sigh....

 

Or better yet just introduce some sort of Alternate Advancement System at 60 and you won't have to add new abilities or push back old disciplines or anything like that. For the life of me I can't understand why no mmo since Everquest has ever utilized this system. If constantly gives you something to work towards without making you supremely OP. I can remember some of them just being like a 1% increase of certain abilities. Of course EQ took forever to level up in compared to SWTOR but you could make them such small increases, maybe like .25% power gain with a total of 3% in all once you've maxed out that particular one. You can add anything from run speed, buffs lasting longer, increased healing, better crafting chances, etc. Really the potential is endless. I'd rather work towards that then keep having to wait longer and longer for key disciplines that just a few days ago I had at a much lower level. Not a fan of watering down skill systems in mmo's then constantly pushing it back to accommodate higher levels but I'll wait and see how it goes.

[Xaosage]

"Utility Grant Levels

Now you get utility choice points at the following levels to prevent excessive power inflation with each expansion, and to ensure a choice was present at level 65.

 

Tier 1: 17, 25, 33 (up from 11, 19, 27)

Tier 2: 41, 49 (up from 35, 43)

Tier 3: 57, 65 (up from 51, 60)"

 

um taking something away then giving it back to us 5 lvls later so we have a choice at lvl 65 isn't a choice your just returning what you stole to begin with. If 8 Utilities is too much then come up with something else like a minor passive power or a choice of Datacrons would be a better idea then changing the system every time you raise the lvl cap.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Xaosage

[RAVM]

They could have simply made it so that the utility you pick at 65 is a lower tier (skillful) one, as just one alternative.

 

It is pretty pathetic that the level cap increase removes one of our points and gives it back later. Especially when they redesigned the entire system with the last cap increase for the primary purpose of making scaling at later levels more manageable. The one thing I was looking forward to about the level cap increase was selecting another utility. Major failure.

 

What do we get for this level increase?

 

Higher gear: Oh yay, reset the gear grind again

 

More utility choices: Who cares without more points. And at least for my Sent, these new ones aren't better than the existing ones I already have or want.

 

More abilities: More ability bloat, quickbar clutter, mostly just more forms of gap closers and escapes that will make PVP even messier. I would have much preferred some passives on my existing abilities like lower cooldown on Force Leap. While the rest of the game is being made simpler (for better or for worse), the combat team wants to continue in the other direction. I guess they didn't get the memo.

Edited September 8, 2015 by RAVM

[Raansu]

Or better yet just introduce some sort of Alternate Advancement System at 60 and you won't have to add new abilities or push back old disciplines or anything like that. For the life of me I can't understand why no mmo since Everquest has ever utilized this system. If constantly gives you something to work towards without making you supremely OP. I can remember some of them just being like a 1% increase of certain abilities. Of course EQ took forever to level up in compared to SWTOR but you could make them such small increases, maybe like .25% power gain with a total of 3% in all once you've maxed out that particular one. You can add anything from run speed, buffs lasting longer, increased healing, better crafting chances, etc. Really the potential is endless. I'd rather work towards that then keep having to wait longer and longer for key disciplines that just a few days ago I had at a much lower level. Not a fan of watering down skill systems in mmo's then constantly pushing it back to accommodate higher levels but I'll wait and see how it goes.

 

FFXI did that with the merit system. After level cap you can switch xp to merit points and use those points to level up individual stats for a specific job. Could level up physical accuracy, or raise your strength, could increase the damage boost of specific magic spells/weaponskills etc....And of course one toon could swap to any job so it was pretty endless. Man I miss old school FFXI. MMO's just don't have that charm anymore.

[RAVM]

FFXI did that with the merit system. After level cap you can switch xp to merit points and use those points to level up individual stats for a specific job. Could level up physical accuracy, or raise your strength, could increase the damage boost of specific magic spells/weaponskills etc....And of course one toon could swap to any job so it was pretty endless. Man I miss old school FFXI. MMO's just don't have that charm anymore.

 

I like this kind of idea, but it'll never happen. The combat team doesn't think outside the box, they are set firm on the rails of the traditional MMO vertical leveling system.

[Team_Yates]

Thank you for creating a discussion thread on all class changes, allowing all players, even the haters, a voice. I play all classes and have been playing since launch. I love this game and keep coming back, no matter how many times I unsubscribe. With that said, I plan on only posting on this thread, as knight is the only class in my opinion in need of serious love. Blitz will definitely help to counter kiters. i'm intrigued. BUT, more than that, I'm pleading with y'all to change knight/warrior utilities, especially sent/mara. For example, make transcendence on demand base for all sents. Same with the root on "blade dance." Either that, or allow sents to select a utility to move while performing BD, as, in all honestly, the root is worthless -- at least against players with a mild clue of what they are doing. Still, you have to take the root utility if you hope to at least work in 2 hits with the move. I hope BW will either merge some utilities or make some base. If not, no worries. I'm sure I'll still have fun on my vanguard nuking melee from 15 meters away, laughing as they roll to me and I hit hold the line.

[Team_Yates]

Some ideas on utility points for sent/maras.

 

- Make the slow/trauma a ranged base ability. Make the utility a root/focus reduction.

 

- All classes can hit their raid buff on demand. Even mando dps can fire their green beam before a pull. Please, get rid of utility for meditate/centering and make it base. Or, allow sents to use inspiration without focus cost.

 

- Merge the trans utilities or at least make the on demand utility a base ability.

 

I get that sents were OP for a very long time. But it's time. But they've been punished long enough. It's ok to make them competitive again.

[pieceofjunk]

Not sure if this was asked already but what is happening with the Tanking Secondary Stats? Are shield, absorb and defense staying or is that changing like some of the other stats? Edited September 9, 2015 by pieceofjunk
Misspell

[Bugattiboy]

they are set firm on the rails of the traditional MMO vertical leveling system.

 

Except it's not the traditional MMO vertical leveling system. It's the EA MMO vertical leveling system. In the traditional system your character(s) get progressively stronger and are not required to continuously re-grind the last 5 levels over and over again. In the EA system your character(s) have a static power level and must continuously re-grind the last 5 levels to stay at that static power level.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Bugattiboy

[Kaizersan]

Not sure if this was asked already but what is happening with the Tanking Secondary Stats? Are shield, absorb and defense staying or is that changing like some of the other stats?

 

They are staying the same.