havokhead Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) To all those new players constantly floating out in open space during domination matches (there's been a lot this week)...Defend your already captured sats!! You're only hurting your team & your requisition by chasing people all over the map. During domination matches the goal is to take & hold the satellites and your requisition points reflect this. If you fight too far off the sats then you'll be lucky to get 350pts, defending a satellite for 4 mins will net you like 800+ pts so doubling your score or better. Don't play foolishly, it's much easier to defend then to attack, free up more experienced/better equipped squad-mates to attack while you hold the fort. Use situational awareness to see if anyone is heading toward you, look around & tab for nearest targets. If a gunship is eyeing you up...MOVE!! Use LoS and make him come get you. If it's a bomber engage him during his approach out in the open where he's more vulnerable. Be a team player and call out when your satellite is being attacked. A simple statement such as "2 inc A" or "gs on C" can make a big difference. Sometimes players get caught up attacking a sat and don't realize theirs is being attacked. It only takes 20 secs for a good players to uncap an undefended satellite. So stay there and at least slow him down until reinforcements come to help. Even though you may be new, you can still be an effective team player. You don't have to be gunship fodder, you can be a satellite defender!! Edited August 20, 2015 by havokhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caederon Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Even though you may be new, you can still be an effective team player. You don't have to be gunship fodder, you can be a satellite defender!! Very good post, and very necessary. This sort of behavior is epidemic lately. I've seen it become prevalent on Harbinger, particularly. I was in a Lost Shipyards match last night that was a solid friendly 2-cap early until people went off on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride or something, completely abandoning defense while a much more focused enemy team turned it around and 3-capped us. The match ended with 90% of my team in a green blob about 8000m off C, which I had just flipped before getting killed for the nth time from lack of support. It was pretty infuriating. Simple defensive flying would have earned a win. The objective in Domination matches is to capture and hold the satellites. Everything else is secondary. Despon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediBoadicea Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Good post, and as Despon pointed out, one that seems to be unusually necessary these days. I've seen far too many matches lately where a team that seems to think three-capping is the only way to victory eschewed defense in favor of a totally unnecessary assault and consequently lost the match. I'm one of those "honor code" pilots who prefers not to three cap in general, but surely three capping in this particular manner should seem crazy to everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardaneb Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 As a new player there is a great exercise you can do to help your flying. Go into the tutorial and click through all the windows without shooting the turrets. Then practice flying as hard and fast as you can around/over the satellite, through the structure, through the star destroyer. Push the boundaries of close flying, start stop, anything you can think of that is hard to do. You can only do it in a Sting/Flashfire, but it is great for learning how to control your vessel better. I probably did that something like 50 times in between matches when I was starting. It will quickly improve your offensive and defensive skill against the average player, especially around the satellite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashamam Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Very good post, and very necessary. This sort of behavior is epidemic lately. I've seen it become prevalent on Harbinger, particularly. I was in a Lost Shipyards match last night that was a solid friendly 2-cap early until people went off on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride or something, completely abandoning defense while a much more focused enemy team turned it around and 3-capped us. The match ended with 90% of my team in a green blob about 8000m off C, which I had just flipped before getting killed for the nth time from lack of support. It was pretty infuriating. Simple defensive flying would have earned a win. The objective in Domination matches is to capture and hold the satellites. Everything else is secondary. Despon I think I might have been in that match against you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShallowHal Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Very good post, and very necessary. This sort of behavior is epidemic lately. I've seen it become prevalent on Harbinger, particularly. I was in a Lost Shipyards match last night that was a solid friendly 2-cap early until people went off on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride or something, completely abandoning defense while a much more focused enemy team turned it around and 3-capped us. The match ended with 90% of my team in a green blob about 8000m off C, which I had just flipped before getting killed for the nth time from lack of support. It was pretty infuriating. Simple defensive flying would have earned a win. The objective in Domination matches is to capture and hold the satellites. Everything else is secondary. Despon Baloney. The objective in any match to avoid getting one-shotted by your gunship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sartt Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 New players! Get ready o die in 1 shot from a gunship! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolo_Yeung Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 ... and then you can read on forums how perfectly ballanced gunships are and how vulnerable to scouts... And seriously - in Domination, the basic rule is simple - ALWAYS fly CLOSE TO SATELLITES. Be it friendly or enemy, If the sat is in enemy hands (red) - you have a chance that enemies slips and it will go white/neutral. If friendly - it will NOT go white as long as you're near it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALaggyGrunt Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Sometimes you have to get off the sat. If there's a gunship with a clue pointed at it, you're not going to be on the sat for very long, so you have to make it run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caederon Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 It'd be really cool if we didn't turn a thread that has useful information for new pilots into another troll-fueled whinefest about gunships. They are even less of an issue in Domination matches than they are in TDM. And they are 100% necessary to counter bombers, which ARE a big issue in Domination matches. Yeah, you have to leave the sat sometimes to go deal with a threat. The important thing is to get back there after the threat is dealt with. And if you can't deal with the threat, get to the satellite while it is still green or neutral and fly around it evasively or park yourself somewhere hard to hit so the sat stays out of enemy hands until your team can reinforce it. There have been many matches where I have preserved a victory by going full power on shields and flying evasively close to a satellite to keep it green. Even in a gunship. When that satellite is flashing on your HUD, it is your responsibility to defend it. Despon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasja Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 The players who chase and don't defend satelites as well as abondon the defense of a satelite (killhungry senses maybe) are unlikely to read the forums. Worse, they are the ones who fly around UNARMED these days because of the last update! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caederon Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 The players who chase and don't defend satelites as well as abondon the defense of a satelite (killhungry senses maybe) are unlikely to read the forums. Worse, they are the ones who fly around UNARMED these days because of the last update! Not everyone who reads the forum posts on the forum, there are lots of lurkers, and if the message reaches even some of them, it is one worth spreading. The stupid 'component disabling' bug is indeed a problem. I recommend posting reminders in the GSF channel of your server when you log in, then copying that reminder and pasting it at the start of matches, especially when you see a lot of new or inexperienced pilots. Something like: "The last patch introduced a bug that can disable components of your ships. Every time you log in, go to your hangar and make sure all components have an option selected, or you may be without weapons or shields." Despon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediBoadicea Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 There have been many matches where I have preserved a victory by going full power on shields and flying evasively close to a satellite to keep it green. Even in a gunship. When that satellite is flashing on your HUD, it is your responsibility to defend it. This. So much this. I end up in this position frequently, whether it's preventing a friendly sat from flipping under assault, or preventing an enemy cap at the beginning of a game. An evasive pilot flying on full defense doing nothing but hugging a sat and avoiding death, even if they don't fire a single shot for minutes at a time, can make or break a whole match. This is something I wish more up and coming pilots could be taught. I have often been deeply frustrated to have been doing this exact type of sat-hugging evasive flying for minutes at a time, only to finally get killed and instantly see the sat fall because apparently I was the only person around in sat proximity. As Despon pointed out, in a domination match, the objective is the objective. It will do you no good to get kills out in midfield if the satellites fall. Unless topping the leaderboard in kills is your personal sole objective. Which definitely seems true for some people, but in the majority I imagine that newer players are thinking more about winning; better requisition reward, better experience, better feeling. So defend those sats; stay in close! If I could have only one single change to the leaderboard and recorded stats, it would be for people to get objective points for time spent in close proximity to a neutral sat as well as a friendly one. That's time spent preventing an enemy cap, and that's just as valuable as defense in a domination match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavaar Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I have often been deeply frustrated to have been doing this exact type of sat-hugging evasive flying for minutes at a time, only to finally get killed and instantly see the sat fall because apparently I was the only person around in sat proximity. I feel the anger flowing within me even reading this comment. It seems to me like it should be common sense, am I the only one around here that knows how to play the objectives? The worst part is that I know I could be doing so much more good if someone else were holding because I could punish the attackers better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mintas Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Couldn't agree more. My message at the start of any pug match is, "Fly near the sats do not get drawn away." This is not for the vets with good situational awareness but the newer pilots. I can't even count how many matches I have lost by the big fighter ball in the middle of B.F.E. Most pilots respond well to this direction but it can still equate to herding kittens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Additionally, if you see someone holding a sattelite, give support to that one by "healing" him or her, if you can do it (repair drones). I do wonder, however, why this bevahiour evolved in the first place ... There must have been a "starter point" where it all began ... Edited August 24, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximilianPower Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I do wonder, however, why this bevahiour evolved in the first place ... There must have been a "starter point" where it all began ... I don't think you need to look any further than the inadequate tutorial. Yes, it does lightly cover objectives, but doesn't really explain anything, and certainly doesn't hammer the point home. Plus it's pretty easy to skip past or completely ignore the tutorial. I don't know that satellite defense (at least, the proximity factor) is necessarily intuitive. Sure, it makes sense once you're aware of it, but is this really common sense to a brand new player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danalon Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Whenever I notice new players in my team in DOM matches I tell them to stay close to the satellites to defend them. Most of the time they still get lured away by enemy pilots. Very often I see clusters of 3-5 green arrows chasing 1-2 red arrows somwhere 20-25km away from the next satellite while we're losing control of it. The system of controlling is not that unintuitive. In a lot of games there are DOM-type maps, so most players should know what's the goal of the match. In fact, there are DOM-type maps in SWtoR ground PvP. The only difference is you don't need to activate satellites by manually clicking on them. Staying close to a point to take it over is also a common game mechanic. My guess is it's not only a problem of understanding the map. New players usually need a relatively long time to kill a target and if their target flees, they chase after it. In their tunnel-vision they probably just forget about the satellite. Edited August 24, 2015 by Danalon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavaar Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I don't think you need to look any further than the inadequate tutorial. Yes, it does lightly cover objectives, but doesn't really explain anything, and certainly doesn't hammer the point home. Plus it's pretty easy to skip past or completely ignore the tutorial. I don't know that satellite defense (at least, the proximity factor) is necessarily intuitive. Sure, it makes sense once you're aware of it, but is this really common sense to a brand new player? I believe that the "introduction to starfighter" mission from the PvP terminal should perhaps be multi-phased. Phase One: Complete the tutorial. Reward: Ship requisition. Phase Two: Successfully utilize the requisition system to upgrade and/or buy a new component. Reward: Fleet Requisition. Phase Three: Successfully complete a match and defend an objective for 2 minutes. Reward: Unique mount? Outfit? Title? Fleet comms? Requisition? All of the above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eztro Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Agree completely! It is sad that it's necessary to say it though. In every objective capture game ever the manta is always "FIGHT ON THE FLAG!" You would think that it would be automatic by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShallowHal Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I feel the anger flowing within me even reading this comment. It seems to me like it should be common sense, am I the only one around here that knows how to play the objectives? The worst part is that I know I could be doing so much more good if someone else were holding because I could punish the attackers better. Yep. First of all, my comment above wasn't another thing about overpowered gunships - my blood is just all splattered over Despon's because he's fully upgraded and really good. Secondly, amen to this. I'm sick of being the only person on a team that understands if you fly away from the objective to go chase kills, it's very easy for the enemy to fly right in and cap your satellite. But no matter how many times you say don't chase, guard your satellites, there is always at least half of every team that is full of guys who are there just to chase kill stats. And that includes guys who are good pilots in good ships, but are playing selfishly. Too many people going for 3-caps in matches where it's not a rout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Secondly, amen to this. I'm sick of being the only person on a team that understands if you fly away from the objective to go chase kills, it's very easy for the enemy to fly right in and cap your satellite. But no matter how many times you say don't chase, guard your satellites, there is always at least half of every team that is full of guys who are there just to chase kill stats. And that includes guys who are good pilots in good ships, but are playing selfishly. Too many people going for 3-caps in matches where it's not a rout. This reminds me of something : Bad All Stars... Game last night in regs and I call incs and told ssshhh... No help... We lose the node... I ask is there a problem with calling incs and someone coming to help and I get told L2P pvp... When I explain its objective pvp and the idea is to win... I'm told who cares it's regs... Do what you want... Nobody cares... These guys were from a a supposed pvp imp guild on Harbinger in a semi premade... They spent the whole match 3-4v1 people and then telling them they were scrubs... They rotated from a node they captured leaving it completely defenceless to attack another node... There was 1 other person on our team who knew how to play objective pvp... Between us we tried to carry this team by plugging the leaks... But it was point less as the other team knew how to play objectives... We lost civil war 400-0.. I would have left... But I wanted to witness the absolute baddness (and I don't mean in a good way) of these guys... I bet they are just as rubbish in ranked and probably don't even queue because it's too easy to dominate people 3v1 in regs and calling them scrubs... These are by far the worst bads I have ever seen on Harbinger... I suggest if you see them to just leave... Maybe if enough of us refuse to play with them, they may get the message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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