For those who criticize Bioware for focusing on story/solo play......

[HandOfKane]

Hello

 

I'm not sure why you felt the need to "translate" my post, I know English is not my native language but I thought the message was rather clear, but maybe not since you changed the meaning.

 

No, his analysis was pretty much spot on.

 

I did not say that feedback and critics -constructive ones, mind you- shouldn't be present here. They should, of course. What shouldn't be here is constant ranting and doomsaying. I'm sure you've provided some interesting feedback and I was not actually talking about you, specifically. I'm not sure why you'd feel "involved" when I wrote "those who would only drag the reputation of the devs through the mud only for the sake of trolling and instigating a negative atmosphere in the community".

 

Your mind-reading skills need some work.

[CDRWirbelwind]

No, his analysis was pretty much spot on.

 

No, it wasn't. See ? I can do that too.

 

Your mind-reading skills need some work.

 

And sarcasm doesn't suit you at all, buddy. But keep working on it.

[Billupsat]

Wondered how until I heard about that dead, failed game again. Not long was the answer.

 

Also if you weren't just trolling you would easily notice opinion is somewhat swayed though noticeably in favour of KoTFE. Even many of the people who are pissed at not getting new ops right now still don't think KoTFE will be a failure and basically suck. There are some of course ... haters gotta hate.

 

I know how you feel. If I never hear about that dead, failed game again. It will be too soon.

[HandOfKane]

No, it wasn't. See ? I can do that too.

 

Considering that the post he was talking about was pretty much just "You numbskulls who are against the direction of KOTFE are just out to get Bioware!!!", no, you really can't.

 

Not to mention that you seem to think that if someone doesn't like 100% of SWTOR, they think that SWTOR is the worst game ever and that BW devs should go die in a fire... which is what his "response" was about..

 

And sarcasm doesn't suit you at all, buddy. But keep working on it.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/BluesStringer/Point_over_your_head.jpg

[CDRWirbelwind]

Considering that the post he was talking about was pretty much just "You numbskulls who are against the direction of KOTFE are just out to get Bioware!!!", no, you really can't.

 

Not to mention that you seem to think that if someone doesn't like 100% of SWTOR, they think that SWTOR is the worst game ever and that BW devs should go die in a fire... which is what his "response" was about..

 

You should stop sharing your interpretations of what people meant in their posts, you're really bad at this.

 

And I don't like 100% of SWTOR. I'm first in line when criticizing the graphics and animations, for instance.

 

On topic ! ... Wait, where did the topic go... Yeah ! KotFE might not be the expansion pack some players are/were waiting for, but the thing is most players seem to be excited for it, every friend I play with, whether they are new players or present since launch are thrilled. In fact, the forums are the only place dedicated to SWTOR where I've seen negativity about KotFE.

[Ghisallo]

That is completely unrelated to what I wrote. You're using the "streamlining" comment from Bioware in the wrong context. The work they are doing on streamlining content only regards the lvl 1-50 (perhaps 55) content.

 

The leveling experience in KotFE will probably be similar to SoR but not because they're "streamlining it". At this point they have probably found their pace (SoR pace) considering what they wrote about 12XP: "This Boost does not affect Shadow of Revan as it was already designed to be a more streamlined leveling experience".

 

My guess is that we will reach lvl 65 some time before we get to Chapter 9.

 

The streamlining is perfectly relevant when we do a logical analysis of the situation vs a wishful thinking one. You use it in order to have the progression when the streamlining ends because the transition tends to have a predictable curve and I didn't want you or anyone else to say " you're just guessing"... This is not guessing but rather a logical deduction. When they made SoR they were indeed considering 12xp. They knew well in advance that they were going to give that as a subscriber benefit prior to launch. The idea is "balance around the subscriber benefit to get more subscribers prior to expansion launch."

 

As you acknowledge my ultimate point though I then have to ask, what in the name of sweet baby Jeebus makes you say that there will be that much play time? We know how much playable time there was in SoR and it was no where near the estimate you are now making. If we were to add Oricon, SoR and Ziost together i dont think we would not get the story based play time estimates you and a couple others are making.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Ghisallo

[HandOfKane]

You should stop sharing your interpretations of what people meant in their posts, you're really bad at this.

 

And I don't like 100% of SWTOR. I'm first in line when criticizing the graphics and animations, for instance.

 

Meh, since I'm criticizing you, you're naturally going to claim I'm "misinterpreting" you regardless if I actually am or not, so yeah... have fun with that.

 

On topic ! ... Wait, where did the topic go... Yeah ! KotFE might not be the expansion pack some players are/were waiting for, but the thing is most players seem to be excited for it, every friend I play with, whether they are new players or present since launch are thrilled. In fact, the forums are the only place dedicated to SWTOR where I've seen negativity about KotFE.

 

Anecdotal evidence is always reliable.

 

Anyway, I already stated my opinion, though I'll probably run through KOTFE at least once.

Edited August 23, 2015 by HandOfKane

[DogMeat]

Meh, since I'm criticizing you, you're naturally going to claim I'm misinterpreting you regardless if I actually am or not, so yeah... have fun with that.

 

 

 

Anecdotal evidence is always reliable.

 

Anyway, I already stated my opinion, though I'll probably run through KOTFE at least once.

 

OK you 2, take it offline will ya.... Kids these days.

 

The metrics are of course mucked up...

They offer 12xp for story/class missions/quest. what do you think would be teh outcome, everyone go PvP??

 

Point is this, it is what Bio does best and is cheapest for EA...so guess what we get?

 

I can only hope they fix ongoing issues "reorganizing dat, PvP FP/Ops bugs" then add some group content and new PvP stuff.

Just my 2cents.

[Ghisallo]

"It is NOT slander. I resent that. Slander is spoken, in print it's libel."

 

Props to anyone who can identify that quote without looking it up.

 

 

 

I agree, but I think BW knows this. They are going for the quick fix not only in game but in business as well. KotFE is designed to bring in new players and phase out the old ones, who BW might deem as being at the end of their (our) usefulness.

 

I honestly think this shows that people do not understand the gaming industry and, especially, how EA runs its business at this point. If you have a built in marketing bonus...like a movie coming out... You most often not only expect but demand growth. Look at how many more copies of a book you see in a book store if a movie that is based on it is being released. EA's CFO even PUBLICALLY voiced this expectation on their part for goodness sakes.

 

Well a rule of MMOs is a time comes when they do NOT grow after a period of time because as you get more levels and more powerful gear the bar to new entry or return gets raised progressively higher and higher. So you do all the reduxing that BW is doing to try and overcome this. They learned a lesson at launch though regarding lack of elder game content so they spread the story out rather than giving it to us in one lump sum. Plus they retune the old elder game to the new level cap range to A further entice new and return players with the scope of the game and HOPE elder game fans are at least appeased in the short term. It's so dang obvious it makes my head hurt that others don't see it.

 

For the story fans though I have a question. You do know that their retuning of the the old content is sorta against the "story is all" idea and not just on the front of resource expenditure correct? Scum and Villanny, Dread Fortress and DP etc ARE part of the story. All of the Operations are actually part of the story for the Chapter they are part of. As a matter of fact the story of ToS actually makes MORE sense and is MORE TOR like than that of the soloable bit. So they will actually be having elder game content that makes no sense in the context of the new story. It is ALL about business, about taking a gamble, that we bear the risk of, in the hopes of growth.

 

What is most frustrating I think is that acknowledging this is NOT saying anything bad about BW. It is simply acknowledging that they are first and foremost a business. This is simply fact. However it has to be painted that way because, if it isn't, the illusion that pure story players are a clear majority of players and special little snow flakes gets destroyed.

[Ghisallo]

My biggest fear is that up-scaling all the ops to level 65 will simply create 9 versions of ToS. Which means that I will not be able to complete an operation, and I am not even going to try it. I wiped so many times on ToS, I acquired a PTSD of sorts. Love doing Ravagers, and all the other Ops right now. But ToS... just no. It's just too humiliating, so it's better to stay away from it.

 

My ability to play L55s and Ravagers is not due to my skill, it's due to my character being over-geared. At level 65, my 192 set-bonus will be the same as the 172 or 186 was when ToS dropped.

 

So, realistically, once KotFE comes out, for my skill level, what I will be able to play is the solo story and (maybe) the PvP regs.

 

I do not think I want to pay for being continuously reminded of my shortcomings. Sadomasochism is just not my thing.

 

I have already leveled 11 characters and saw all the stories. I play more or less 2 ACs (4 characters) and trying to learn the 3rd. I have no time for every other character in my legacy. They gather dust and craft (sometimes). I don't want to level another character for gathering dust. I am posting this instead of running Rishi-Yavin for the 11th time.

 

The game right now simply became boring for me.

 

KotFE does not promise to alleviate any of it. It does not allow me to relive the fun of playing solo with all the different characters I have, when it is relatively simple and the gearing was not much of a problem and the stories are all so different and exciting.

 

On level 20 or 30, I can jump into a character and play on. On level 60, it takes a guide study and then training the muscle memory to play each AC. I am not interested in doing it to see the same story with a few minor nuggets of content specific to each AC.

 

And, simultaneously, KotFE takes away what little end-game content I could participate in.

 

So, yes, I am not renewing.

 

EDIT: IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT THE DEVELOPER'S FAULT. I am just a bad player, and I have had my fill of what I can do in the game.

 

Well in terms of SM Ravagers is VERY doable as long as people can not stand in fire and read red text.

 

ToS is only an issue with Underlurker, though since he got nerfed it is not as big a deal as it used to be and if you have a Vanguard tank it is pretty much lar for the course, so long as people can stand in the right place.

 

I really think people make SM OPs in general appear to be a lot harder than they really are tbh. And yes I run them casually 2 hours 1 day a week. That's it.

[DomiSotto]

I really think people make SM OPs in general appear to be a lot harder than they really are tbh. And yes I run them casually 2 hours 1 day a week. That's it.

 

I am not going off the hearsay, I am basing it on my own experience.

 

It is not so much about how many hours you invest into the game, it is about your gaming IQ. I play much more time each day (often 3 to 5 hours) than you do, trying and trying and trying, but I've reached my skill ceiling, and it is low.

 

I have been through at least 7 attempts at the Temple of Sacrifice, 6 of them post-nerf. It failed every time, save only 3 times. Three times I have seen the Underlurker die was when my friend just randomly pulled me into a run with one of the best guild on the server that was that NiM core raiders who not so much as carried me thought it, as dragged. The other two times I was in the runs staffed with the 'in between' guild that runs with a 7/10 core group.

 

Every other time, including a couple of runs with a not-HM raiding guilds, the UL failed after 8+ attempts.

 

If every bit of the mechanics associated with the L50-55 ops is back in place, and the damage dealt and the hp of the bosses are upgarded, it's going to be ToS.

 

The old ops has the same amount of movement and coordination the ToS UL requires. ToS is not some stand alone OMG, totally new thing. Every battle in the old ops has something. Rocks to hide behind, platforms to travel to, one-shot kills, a player that has to be in the specific place at the specific time (jealous male). The only reason the folks like me can get through those ops right now is because we are not hurting that much and whatever damage we can eek out is enough to get us through before the enrages.

 

I am not interested in running something that I know in advance I cannot do. Doing the first 2 bosses of the ToS and then having the lock-out for the week so you can't even try again....

 

///

 

Again, BioWARE does that while trying to restructure the game, and I understand that. I understand what they are trying to accomplish, slowly revitalizing every part of the game, one after another, dealing with the game maturing and different generations of the gaming populations, allowing easier entry for the new folks, trying to retain the folks that were there since launch. I also understand that the capital is not there to continue to build 8 games for the price of one. BioWARE is a very shrewd gaming company, always was, always will be.

 

I do not in any way think the developers are wrong. I will be playing Mass Effect after I am off the sub It's all on me, not them.

Edited August 23, 2015 by DomiSotto

[Ghisallo]

I am not going off the hearsay, I am basing it on my own experience.

 

It is not so much about how many hours you invest into the game, it is about your gaming IQ. I play much more time each day (often 3 to 5 hours) than you do, trying and trying and trying, but I've reached my skill ceiling, and it is low.

 

I have been through at least 7 attempts at the Temple of Sacrifice, 6 of them post-nerf. It failed every time, save only 3 times. Three times I have seen the Underlurker die was when my friend just randomly pulled me into a run with one of the best guild on the server that was that NiM core raiders who not so much as carried me thought it, as dragged. The other two times I was in the runs staffed with the 'in between' guild that runs with a 7/10 core group.

 

Every other time, including a couple of runs with a not-HM raiding guilds, the UL failed after 8+ attempts.

 

If every bit of the mechanics associated with the L50-55 ops is back in place, and the damage dealt and the hp of the bosses are upgarded, it's going to be ToS.

 

The old ops has the same amount of movement and coordination the ToS UL requires. ToS is not some stand alone OMG, totally new thing. Every battle in the old ops has something. Rocks to hide behind, platforms to travel to, one-shot kills, a player that has to be in the specific place at the specific time (jealous male). The only reason the folks like me can get through those ops right now is because we are not hurting that much and whatever damage we can eek out is enough to get us through before the enrages.

 

I am not interested in running something that I know in advance I cannot do. Doing the first 2 bosses of the ToS and then having the lock-out for the week so you can't even try again....

 

///

 

Again, BioWARE does that while trying to restructure the game, and I understand that. I understand what they are trying to accomplish, slowly revitalizing every part of the game, one after another, dealing with the game maturing. I also understand that the capital is not there to continue to build 8 games for the price of one.

 

I do not in any way think the developers are wrong. Bio is my favorite gaming company, and I will be playing Mass Effect after I am off the sub It's all on me, not them.

 

Yes and my experience is different but let me explain. Some of the below will also determine if you really are at what you call "skill" ceiling. I say this because I do not think OPs/raiding require skill, I think they require only two talents. 1 multitasking and 2 situational awareness.

 

Underlurker does have some remaining "issues". The thing is he is a KNOWN quantity. And various things need to be taken into account. First you need to see it as the " 2nd OP" in the teir, that there is an internal progression, and treat it as such. In doing so you ask the following questions.

 

1. Have the people you are with cleared Ravagers? If no do not try underlurker. If yes proceed to step 2.

2. Does everyone in your group have full 192 gear, preferably augmented, and even better do some have at least the 2 piece set bonus? If no do not try Underlurker, If yes go-to 3.

3. Can everyone in you group dps while doing the cross and hiding? If no on on just hiding do you have a Vanguard tank to help mitigate? Before doing any of the above are you willing to do number 4.

4. Are you willing to put A LOT of time on target so people get used to the mechanics etc. OPs at level are about wiping, A LOT, on the "check" mobs.

 

It made seem odd to some but doing even SM OPs at level these are the kind of questions that need be asked before proceeding because even there you have gear checks.

 

I suppose my reason for saying Lurker isn't as hard as people make it out to be is that in a very casual guild I killed it with dps being 1 gun slinger and the other 3 Sentinels and as the OT I was a Guardian who had swapped to DPS stance and meh dps (no augments, mix of 192 and 190 gear. Most of the others had only the 2 piece. That is a FAR from ideal make up. Once we got the cross down right and the Vanguard got the handle on using his Gas to mitigate the stage you are supposed to hide he died. Yeah it took some pulls. That was our 3-4 night on him over 3-4 weeks. We probably pulled him at LEAST 8-10 times each night until the kill night when it took us until the 3rd pull. Revan was a one shot.

 

Now while I will never say a "mid" mob has been like Lurker before in an Operation, all Operations have a gear/awareness check boss somewhere before the final fight. They require time on target and proper gearing. That is actually what makes an OP, even a SM one, an OP and not simply an 8-16 man FP.

 

This isn't to belittle your point by any means. I just become a sad panda when people get discouraged. I started MMOs in a RP guild in EQ and continued as such into EQ2. Eventually I wanted to see the rest of the Story because like here, in EQ2, the story that took you through the Open world and the FPs eventually led to the door of a Raid. This meant that, saddly, I had to leave and join guilds that were friendly/tolerant of my RPness BUT that also raided current content. Did we clear all that stuff before the next expac came out? Usually not tbh. BUT seeing what we could and doing it with 23 other people who I had a dang good time with made it a fun time worth doing. There was no "omg we suck..." Or "its all their fault!!!". We recognized our limits and had fun within them and, sometimes, transcended those limits. SM OPs, including Lurker, are easier than any of those other fights I did in EQ2 or RIFT as well so maybe that's another reason why I am sad with the discouragement I see at times. I feel like people maybsimply be psyching themselves out.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Ghisallo

[DomiSotto]

I say this because I do not think OPs/raiding require skill, I think they require only two talents. 1 multitasking and 2 situational awareness.

 

Those are hard to acquire talents. The third one is the muscle memory of how your 36 abilities are integrating with one another and where they are keybound. Which results in someone capable of moving freely, while reading the chat, watching the target bar and self-bar, re-targeting as necessary and executing abilities with a minimal delay in queueing them, while adapting that queue to what is happening. It is beyond trivial multitasking. I know people who play it like they breathe, and that is an admirable set of skills. I do not like when people diminish and trivialize it.

 

What you describe in your algorithm for success in the raiding, well, that's something I am very uncomfortable with. I am more comfortable with the all-inclusive approaches, when people just come together, instead of forging a permanent unit. And if people just banded together, well... Do they have their set, did they pass the Ravagers at least 4 times, and if they did it on the alt they are playing right now, what they are parsing... well, I can't go asking these questions. I just want to be responsible for myself and treat others with respect and assume they are doing the best they can, just like I do. I simply want to play with people who are Okay playing with me. Not overjoyed, but Okay.

 

I can't wrap my head around how the multiple wipes and repeat failures is some sort of a positive experience. I just can't. Every time I get that lockout of shame after all the wipes feels like a tremendous waste. All you get is a repair bill and an sick feeling.

[AshenK]

I agree, but I think BW knows this. They are going for the quick fix not only in game but in business as well. KotFE is designed to bring in new players and phase out the old ones, who BW might deem as being at the end of their (our) usefulness.

And that's going to hurt the game big time. That's what SOE tried to do with the NGE, phase out the people who love sandbox style games and it's freedom to the WoW style "I want to be X class!" SOE failed to see how big the outcry would be, and how the SWG Vet community did a great job in showing that the NGE wasn't the way to go about doing any kinda game change.

 

BioWare deciding the game has to be a single player game with a chatroom? It's not going to work.

[Ghisallo]

Those are hard to acquire talents. The third one is the muscle memory of how your 36 abilities are integrating with one another and where they are keybound. Which results in someone capable of moving freely, while reading the chat, watching the target bar and self-bar, re-targeting as necessary and executing abilities with a minimal delay in queueing them, while adapting that queue to what is happening. It is beyond trivial multitasking. I know people who play it like they breathe, and that is an admirable set of skills. I do not like when people diminish and trivialize it.

 

What you describe in your algorithm for success in the raiding, well, that's something I am very uncomfortable with. I am more comfortable with the all-inclusive approaches, when people just come together, instead of forging a permanent unit. And if people just banded together, well... Do they have their set, did they pass the Ravagers at least 4 times, and if they did it on the alt they are playing right now, what they are parsing... well, I can't go asking these questions. I just want to be responsible for myself and treat others with respect and assume they are doing the best they can, just like I do. I simply want to play with people who are Okay playing with me. Not overjoyed, but Okay.

 

I can't wrap my head around how the multiple wipes and repeat failures is some sort of a positive experience. I just can't. Every time I get that lockout of shame after all the wipes feels like a tremendous waste. All you get is a repair bill and an sick feeling.

 

If you are using 36 separate abilities something is... Off. Also the nature of a talent is that it is not acquired, it can be honed with practice but you either have it or you do not

 

Other than that what you describe is NOT raiding. The difference between raiding a "dungeons" is that raiding is about coordination. Here is what I think people forgot/miss about a theme park MMO like SWTOR. They are trying to cater to multiple preferences so over her you have a log floom, over there the roller coaster and yet again over there the tea cups. Not everyone is going to like every thing. Some people don't like PvP, some don't like raiding, some are bored to tears by soloing etc. What you propose would be great for you sure but it actually HURTS the game. How? Because if you make all content doable by any random group of people with no coordination whatsoever, OR the inverse, make every type of content require if not a fixed group people familiar with the encounter and coordination, you alienate the other group. They leave. The trick of MMO design is simply annoying every group. Okay the guy who doesn't like fixed groups can't raid everything BUT he can do everything else so he is content, if annoyed The guy who likes more challenge has his raids so he is content, again if annoyed.

 

You also miss another point. The great part of the fixed group is, so long it is people you like hanging out with, the social aspect of an MMO, in the end it doesn't matter if you clear the raid zone at all, anymore than it does if you and you friends won the soft ball game. All that matters is that you had fun with your friends. This is the difference between an MMO and every other game genre. It's not about saying "I won SWTOR" its about saying "I had fun with my friends."

[DomiSotto]

I play PvP and PvE on my characters, so yes, my layout is 24-26 buttons on the keyboard and 12 on the mouse, to account for attacks, defenses, interrupts, cc's, 6 targeting options, and re-usables.

 

I have nothing to forget - SWTOR is my first and only MMO. I am not sure why it is so wrong to want to enjoy every aspect of the game on the lowest difficulty setting to the extent your abilities permit. When I started trying the end-game group content I found it very interesting. Among my strongest impressions of the game is the Ravagers. Only yesterday I went on a run of a TfB as a DPS for the first time, and experienced the wild ride of the platform hopping looking for the tentacles.

 

And I have been playing this game for a good year not even considering either the end game PvE or any form of PvP because of that attitude that a solo player should STAY OUT! and don't walk on the good guy's lawns.

 

I do not see why it would kill a game to have the entry level end-game content opened and all-inclusive with the other tiers like ranked PvP and HM.NiM reserved for the accomplished players who do form the permanent companies.

 

I admire the skill, always did, always will. I am also happy that people bond over Underlurkers and the like. Why don't those folks co-exist with me and mine and want to stake out the whole areas of the game out of my reach, not just the advanced parts of them?

 

As for social...

 

I like SWTOR because it was so different from SP games, with all the other players walking around. I like crossing the fleet and noticing the PvP champions. I see folks as I travel the world, and sometimes whisper or wonder about a great name or outfit. I also like anonymously and quietly joining the group content when I can. I don't think folks really want to befriend someone who is going to drag them down. Well, with rare exceptions, but not in general.

 

I have no dreams or ambitions left after getting to the point of being good enough to know how bad I am. I do not want a 204 mainhand or a super-special mount. I just want to have fun without leaning on or offending anyone, while seeing everything there is to see in the game.

 

I am very glad that there was this period of time when someone like I could take a peek in the world normally reserved for the better players. Of course, having seen it, it's hard to let go off it.

 

It saddens me that KotFE may close the gates without opening up anything remotely as spectacular as the vanilla stories were.

Edited August 24, 2015 by DomiSotto

[MeNaCe-NZ]

My biggest fear is that up-scaling all the ops to level 65 will simply create 9 versions of ToS. Which means that I will not be able to complete an operation, and I am not even going to try it. I wiped so many times on ToS, I acquired a PTSD of sorts. Love doing Ravagers, and all the other Ops right now. But ToS... just no. It's just too humiliating, so it's better to stay away from it.

 

My ability to play L55s and Ravagers is not due to my skill, it's due to my character being over-geared. At level 65, my 192 set-bonus will be the same as the 172 or 186 was when ToS dropped.

 

The old ops were nothing like ToS and don't let anyone scare monger you into thinking they were either.

 

If you are doing Rav now you'll be fine on the older ops. You could find a couple of tough fights but as I've pointed out in another thread there will be a ton more knowledge and help for those fights than what there is for ToS now.

 

Rav and ToS have the same gearing requirements also, they dropped at the same time. So you are at level for Rav ( 186's is minimum really ) for the most part. Also ToS isn't really damage that gets people but more the unforgiving mechanics that really doesn't leave much room for mistakes - not really SM friendly.

 

They've also not mentioned whether or not they are tweaking the older ops for SM. I would doubt they would for mechanics but quite possibly on the damage output/input areas.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

 

If every bit of the mechanics associated with the L50-55 ops is back in place, and the damage dealt and the hp of the bosses are upgarded, it's going to be ToS.

 

 

No it really won't be and that's kind of a silly thing to say especially in light of the point you seem to imply that you are doing Rav fine ( which is far more akin to the old ops than ToS ) .

You've basically surmised in the rest of your post that ToS isn't the problem but mostly underlurker is and from experience that's not entirely the players fault but more how BW implemented a mechanic that really just isn't suited for PVE style MMO play.

 

Anyway you should stop being so self defeating before they've even launched and give it a go first.

 

If you know the mechanics for the 55's now and aren't dieing you won't die much when they are scaled either.

Why? Because you already know the mechanics and that is key on those fights, not how much damage you put out or absorb.

Gear won't matter now because there is bolster so it's just mechanics basically and knowing your rotations fairly well, it sounds like you already know both of those things ( if people are letting you in groups regularly I would assume you know your rotations ) so you're sweet.

 

I of course assume you don't tank/heal operations based on your attitude also? I mean if you do ... what on earth reason do you have to doubt yourself especially if you tank or heal Rav?

 

Long story short, you'll be fine as long as you have the confidence to try and do what you already do. ToS was a freakish fail of an SM op for players who have a harder time with gaming like yourself, don't base any of the other ops on this.

[DomiSotto]

I did not mean to sound so negative, particularly repeating myself. We simply cannot know until November. It is also obvious it cannot stay at status quo.

 

Obviously, the community is divided in that some of us want to see 9 SM modes like Ravagers, and others - 9 SM modes like ToS or even more challenging than that. It can go either way. It remains to be seen.

[mmmbuddah]

I dont understand what people find difficult about ToS, it is ridiculously easy, just know your left hand from your right hand. Is that asking too much?

[DomiSotto]

Good for you to be so accomplished you don't even get it.

[Draqsko]

I dont understand what people find difficult about ToS, it is ridiculously easy, just know your left hand from your right hand. Is that asking too much?

 

Obviously you've never been in Voidstar... Leader says all Left or all Right, half the team goes left, half the team goes right.

[Grayseven]

Wow, step away for a week and all heck breaks lose...

 

For those who seem to want to attack anyone when they mention flawed metrics:

 

No, we don't know how they are analyzing their data...or even collecting it. In truth, all we have is a vague mention by a developer that their "numbers" point to people playing for story.

 

When someone mentions "their numbers" it typically points at metrics they've collected.

 

And while I personally only have experience with the data collection and analysis for the corp I work for, I can say with all certainty that no matter how EA/BW collects and analyzes their data it is very easy for those who do the collection and analysis to make the numbers show what they want them to show. Just as an example, the time range of the data collected is important. Does it encompass the entirety of the games life? Does it encompass the last 6 months before the decision? Was the data collected when players were burned out on the two current ops? All of these are possibilities.

 

And with the revamp of the old ops one has to wonder if they saw people going back to run the old stuff and thought it meant something more than people trying to get deco's, mounts and titles.

 

No, this isn't a conspiracy. It's simply human nature. If the bosses expect to see something the underlings will make sure they see it. Starting with preconceived notions immediately flaws the data especially in a bureaucratic hierarchy.

 

And regardless if the numbers are by character or by account, the simple fact remains that story is what the majority of players have done because it has to be done. There are so many variables and qualifiers that any sane person has to wonder how the metrics could even be valid. If an account has 20+ characters and only a few of those have done operations and/or flashpoints it doesn't mean that the player of that account prefers story, only that they prefer a few characters to do operations and flashpoints.

 

There is such a thing as too much data which can also explain the recent dev decisions.

 

Regardless, I'm now in "wait and see" mode. It's entirely too late for EA/BW to change anything and too close to the holidays to expect anything like new fps and ops until the end of the first quarter of next year at the earliest. We'll see how the movie release and game changes coincide. It's been almost a week since I last logged into the game and almost 3 weeks since I've done anything except post auctions and file tickets for missing Conquest rewards. That'll teach me to sub for more than a month at a time...

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I did not mean to sound so negative, particularly repeating myself. We simply cannot know until November. It is also obvious it cannot stay at status quo.

 

Obviously, the community is divided in that some of us want to see 9 SM modes like Ravagers, and others - 9 SM modes like ToS or even more challenging than that. It can go either way. It remains to be seen.

 

Yes you are right we won't really know until October when it all launches and you give them ops a go for yourself.

 

Another point is if the pugging picks back up again to how it used to be it will mean more opportunities for you to get into ops, give it a go and learn where as lately the pickings are very slim.

 

Also I don't think the community is split on the last point you make, barely anyone wants 9 operations like ToS heh.

[DarthMaulUK]

Wow, step away for a week and all heck breaks lose...

 

For those who seem to want to attack anyone when they mention flawed metrics:

 

No, we don't know how they are analyzing their data...or even collecting it. In truth, all we have is a vague mention by a developer that their "numbers" point to people playing for story.

 

When someone mentions "their numbers" it typically points at metrics they've collected.

 

And while I personally only have experience with the data collection and analysis for the corp I work for, I can say with all certainty that no matter how EA/BW collects and analyzes their data it is very easy for those who do the collection and analysis to make the numbers show what they want them to show. Just as an example, the time range of the data collected is important. Does it encompass the entirety of the games life? Does it encompass the last 6 months before the decision? Was the data collected when players were burned out on the two current ops? All of these are possibilities.

 

And with the revamp of the old ops one has to wonder if they saw people going back to run the old stuff and thought it meant something more than people trying to get deco's, mounts and titles.

 

No, this isn't a conspiracy. It's simply human nature. If the bosses expect to see something the underlings will make sure they see it. Starting with preconceived notions immediately flaws the data especially in a bureaucratic hierarchy.

 

And regardless if the numbers are by character or by account, the simple fact remains that story is what the majority of players have done because it has to be done. There are so many variables and qualifiers that any sane person has to wonder how the metrics could even be valid. If an account has 20+ characters and only a few of those have done operations and/or flashpoints it doesn't mean that the player of that account prefers story, only that they prefer a few characters to do operations and flashpoints.

 

There is such a thing as too much data which can also explain the recent dev decisions.

 

Regardless, I'm now in "wait and see" mode. It's entirely too late for EA/BW to change anything and too close to the holidays to expect anything like new fps and ops until the end of the first quarter of next year at the earliest. We'll see how the movie release and game changes coincide. It's been almost a week since I last logged into the game and almost 3 weeks since I've done anything except post auctions and file tickets for missing Conquest rewards. That'll teach me to sub for more than a month at a time...

 

Of course their metrics are flawed. Let me remind you that class progression is based around STORY. Its like saying that road A is the most popular route in to a city, when its the ONLY route in to the city.

 

Its essentially language from Bioware saying that they have streamlined content updates in to these short cut scenes because they simply can't deliver additional content 4 weeks, then 6 weeks, then 8 weeks and now over SIX MONTH cycles.