Why combining main-stats is neither bad nor "dumbing down' anything.

[Grayseven]

The obvious continuation of this system simplification is to award every GF member a choice of drop at the end of the flashpoint instead of having a drop for each boss. This ensures that everyone stays until the end (unless the group is so bad someone can't take it any more) and that everyone gets something for participation. Eliminates the chance one person gets all the drops.

 

That really doesn't seem like it would work for ops since current design has each boss dropping specific pieces. Of course, that design could change.

 

Regardless, the whole possibility of this change simply means that the new focus for this game is new players unfamiliar with MMO's. God forbid anyone be required to think or put forth effort.

[Khevar]

I'll be honest, I would much rather have the occasional nitwit who Needs on something that isn't their main stat(which doesn't happens anymore near mid-game content),

than having the entire party Needing on one particular item just cause it's an upgrade for everyone

I guess.

 

For me personally, the only drops I really care about are those that are not class-specific anyway. Token-based drops, or a deco, or a mount, etc. In a pug, the entire party usually needs on those anyway.

[DCFDTL]

I guess.

 

For me personally, the only drops I really care about are those that are not class-specific anyway. Token-based drops, or a deco, or a mount, etc. In a pug, the entire party usually needs on those anyway.

 

Exactly, now everyone is gonna Need on them Implants and Earpieces or whatever since itemization pretty much lost its INDIVIDUALITY.

 

Classes that has access to heavy armor can pretty much Need on medium or light and give the ******** excuses of

"I can use em' too!", and they just made RNG even worse for random PUG/GF(more Need rolls than usual) but made it easier for organized Guild runs or OPs

[AlrikFassbauer]

Mashing up Crit and Surge into one thing continues to be a terrible idea, that reduces the flexibility of builds.

 

Nonsense. There have NEVER been individual builds - because, as soon as you tried something REALLY individually, you'd get kicked. Absolutely.

 

3. If you are not using the accepted builds you are useless and I will abandon you. You should just accept that we know what works best and learn to adjust, if you don't then I will drop any group I see you in.

 

These are the overall viewpoints I saw repeated in conversation over time.

 

The more I read about KotFE the more I come to realise.... it's not really an expansion. Sure they call it an expansion, but really it's not coming across like it. Seems to be more like the sequel MMO to SWTOR.

 

Looks more and more like SWTOR NGE to me as well.

 

 

 

Your argument is entirely and thoroughly unpersuasive and smacks of Chicken Little-ism

 

You do very much offline RPGs, do you ?

 

In offline RPGs, each stat is of quite an importance. Take PS:T, for example, where the most important stat is - at least to the main character / protagonist - in hard contrastz to ALL combat-based RPGs : WISDOM !

 

Or Charisma : In some offline RPGS you are even able to fulfill a quest WITHOUT COMBAT AT ALL ! That's not what those who love combat-based RPGs want.

 

And MOST RPGs are combat-based, anyway, especially since Blizzard destroyed everything with their creation of the "Action-RPG" sub-genre -

- a genre which modst players of now believe it is the ONLY viable one.

 

Micro-management - doomed as "unplayable" by players of now. Younger generations of gamers don't even know how to handle micro-management.

 

I, personally, like micro-management.

 

I can see that there is a desire to use only 1 stat in the end, I can even understand the underlying reasoning ( I think ) - but it's nothing I would want.

 

In the end, I'll probably have to "eat it", because I have no other coice.

 

But in the end, it's just another nail into the coffin of well crafted, complex offline RPGs - because of the MMO influence.

Edited August 27, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Apoll]

Seems I am one of the few that do not care about the "mainstat" changes?

 

Isn't that something critical changes in the game, on the contrary, new players aren't going to get lost, companions will be easier to equip while leveling and going to reduce the crafting items/schematics significantly.

[Max_Killjoy]

Nonsense. There have NEVER been individual builds - because, as soon as you tried something REALLY individually, you'd get kicked. Absolutely.

 

I have never been kicked for any build that I have ever tried in any MMO I've played.

 

Stop pretending that the game is "hardcore raid or get out".

 

In SWTOR, I've fastidiously avoided Surge on any mods I've put in any gear, in favor of (in no particular order, details varying by AC) Accuracy, Critical, Power, Alacrity, Shield, Defense, and/or Absorption. That option will end, and somehow things will be re"balanced" around the fact that Crit always comes with both rate of crit and magnitude of crit built in.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Tallwyn]

companions will be easier to equip while leveling and going to reduce the crafting items/schematics significantly.

You have to go watch the SWTOR livestream from yesterday. Companions no longer benefit from equipping gear in the same was players do. They have their own stats that increase with level, so equipping gear is purely cosmetic now.

 

Changes to crafting is what i would like to learn more about aswell. It will take alot less effort/time and money to learn all the schematics, thats for sure. What this will cause to the prices is everyones guess. I belive they will go up abit.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Tallwyn

[Max_Killjoy]

You have to go watch the SWTOR livestream from yesterday. Companions no longer benefit from equipping gear in the same was players do. They have their own stats that increase with level, so equipping gear is purely cosmetic now.

 

Which is a shame, because we lose the ability to set up the stats on our companions as we see fit, the option to choose how important it is to keep them max-geared for level or let things slide, etc.

[Ghisallo]

That would hardly be a "nightmare", or a "$#!t" show.

 

The biggest drama is over someone needing on obviously wrong stats (e.g. Sent needing on Cunning Gear). Eliminating that possibility is hardly going to make things worse. Heck, it might even reduce drama.

 

So 4-16 people all needing on the same piece vs a handful does not create a problem? Gotcha:rolleyes:

[Lynnx]

I definitely agree with the OP. It would be different if every attribute had a purpose, just a different one was emphasized for each class. For example, if Str was useful for all melee attacks, Will was useful for all force attacks, etc. A JK would need str because it is mostly melee, while a sage would need mostly Will. A shadow would need both Str and Will.

Of course, this is not the case. Having each class needing a certain attribute doesn't fulfill a purpose.

I've had times when I've been in an FP and no gear would drop that used my class' attribute. I've also had times when a different class would need roll my gear, either by mistake or on purpose.

When I pug, I usually only accept groups that don't have anyone else in my class because I want gear.

With this new system, everyone has a chance to get good gear. Weapons would be different, since they have barrels and hilts, but in most cases, everyone can use the mods.

[Heat-Wave]

Exactly, now everyone is gonna Need on them Implants and Earpieces or whatever since itemization pretty much lost its INDIVIDUALITY.

 

Classes that has access to heavy armor can pretty much Need on medium or light and give the ******** excuses of

"I can use em' too!", and they just made RNG even worse for random PUG/GF(more Need rolls than usual) but made it easier for organized Guild runs or OPs

 

There isn't any more light or medium armor. It is all adaptive these days.

[Heat-Wave]

So 4-16 people all needing on the same piece vs a handful does not create a problem? Gotcha:rolleyes:

 

Roll your eyes all you like, but it doesn't create a problem. Those people will gear up faster with gear that works for all, then roll need less on it as they are better geared.

 

This is a good thing.

[Tallwyn]

Which is a shame, because we lose the ability to set up the stats on our companions as we see fit, the option to choose how important it is to keep them max-geared for level or let things slide, etc.

 

Some see it as a shame, and some dont... i never much desired the "ability" to set up the stats on my companions as i saw fit, it was too much of a hussle for me to gear them up properly, so i just played dress up with them.

 

All my Havoc Squad members in the same uniform, but colour defined to their rank, red/black for command blue/black for medic, yellow/black for security... atleast now i can summon and use those companions i never bothered to equip with actual gear, i always only geared up one per char.

 

I am really excited that now i will be able to level up my JK with Kira, when i usually was playing with Doc, who i only used as my personal healbot. Its not that i could not level with Kira out, but it was "quicker" that way...

 

TLDR: I like the changes to companions.

[Bachannal]

Accusations of my intent regarding my comments make you look like an ******e, and I will call you out on that since you decided to "dress me down" on my opinion, while arguing so called convictions that you claim I have, even though I don't have them. You would do well to gather more facts than running your mouth. SMH...

 

Does combining all main stats into Mastery dumb it down? The obvious logical answer is yes.

Does combining all main stats into Mastery really matter? Absolutely not.

Is crit broken? Probably.

Is rolling crit into surge and making it one stat in and of itself dumbing it down? Definitely.

 

I work in IT. Back in the 90's and barely into the early 2000's, there was some prestige to being knowledgeable about how everything worked, and it took effort to learn it and understand it. Today people only have to click buttons, not really understand how it works. They just have to understand how to click the buttons correctly. Are we better for it? No. Just dumbed downed catering to those whom choose not to try harder.

 

Extrapolate that to end game PvE or PvP. Are we better for it? Probably not. There is a reason the guys at end game are the best.

 

 

Yea, and there's also a reason the term "neckbeard" exists. Funny, innit?

[Max_Killjoy]

Yea, and there's also a reason the term "neckbeard" exists. Funny, innit?

 

So... waiving the white flag on actual argument, and going with the ad hom now?

[ajiehblr]

Actually, it DOES change things for you...

 

Before, you couldn't swap gear between a Sniper and a Bounty Hunter. Both need, more or less, the same gear... but, the Sniper needed Cunning, the BH needed Aim. Now they both use Mastery, so you can now have 1 set of DPS gear, 1 set of tank gear, and 1 set of healing gear...

 

Of course you can have everyone in basic comms gear for basic PvE stuff, since that stuff is fine for anything normal, but you no longer need to build multiple sets of "elite end game gear" for raiding.

 

This actually makes setting up for HM ops much, much easier.

 

I currently have 2 toons decked out in 192/198 token gear, one Trooper and one Guardian, for DPS and tanking in HM ops. Otherwise everyone else is in a mix of 186 basic, 192 token, 192 elite, and 198 ultimate comms gear. Those toons are fine for everything but 60 HM ops.

 

The 2 elite toons could now share their gear with just about all my toons, for end game stuff.

This!!! How is this not simplification? You now need only 1 DPS gear for all possible toons you have... if this isn't simplification then I don't know what else to say.

[Trinid]

You'll be wanting rid of the trinity next.

 

You say that like getting rid of the trinity would be a bad thing. The holy MMO trinity is a scourge, I would fall to my knees and weep with joy if SWTOR ditched it.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Trinid

[Mewmaster]

I am confused as to what people mean by "stat builds", because despite all of that talk, it is total BS. Companions NEVER MATTERED, just give them whatever gear gives them the correct stat and poof, they are fine. If you actually went out of your way to give them a VERY specific build, guess, what, it meant ZERO, nothing, it did not help you one bit, nor did yo get anything for actually doing it. You wasted loads of time to do something that did not matter at all.

 

as for players, yeah, sorry, there was, and is, no such thing as "multiple builds" when it came to stats, everyone wore the exact same things, and had the same stats. IF you say differently, well, guess what, it did not matter anyway because you played the exact same as everyone else with that class.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Mewmaster

[ElZaguero]

Dude, it was dumb to begin with. If you thought that was some kind of mental challenge in the first place, maybe you should rethink what you define as intelligent.

 

You know, if this was the removal of how certain powers activate given a specific rotation to do more dmg, mitigate dmg, etc in a way that makes it even more faceroll, then that'd be dumbing it down. But let's face it, there's not enough aspects of this game outside of PvP that really challenge us all that much. You're puzzle-solving skills are not greatly enhanced by playing this game by any stretch. If y ou think that they are, or if you think that you risk losing brain cells due to playing the upcoming xpac, then it's worrisome as to how much you have currently.

 

Korban, why do you insist on personally attacking people, just because they disagree with you? This is at least the second time just in this thread that you have insulted someone's intelligence simply for expressing a contrary opinion.

 

Perhaps you should re-read the forum rules.

[KorbanShepard]

Korban, why do you insist on personally attacking people, just because they disagree with you? This is at least the second time just in this thread that you have insulted someone's intelligence simply for expressing a contrary opinion.

 

Perhaps you should re-read the forum rules.

 

I was responding to a post where the guy questions my proficiency in language at the very beginning of the post. If they had wanted a civil discussion then leaving that part out would have helped. Otherwise, it is fair game.

[Sobekeus]

I just want all the stats to be beneficial to everyone to a greater degree.

[ElZaguero]

Personally, I hate the idea of these changes.

 

I have a strong philosophical objection to changing basic mechanics of a fully mature MMO. I've seen it done before, and a plurality of the existing players always get screwed somehow.

 

I hate the idea of combining main stats because anything that makes the game more blandly generic is always a mistake.

 

I hate the idea of no longer being able to gear up my companions the way I choose, because they're my companions, dammit. This, for me, is part of the fun of the game, and they're taking that away from me.

 

And I greatly fear these changes will mean crafters getting even more screwed than we already have been by the greed of the Cartel Market. Changes to crafting are one of the most common ways for players to get shafted by "reforms" like this.

 

But whatever, my opinion means nothing. I'm just one more face in the crowd, one more insignificant little ant in the great internet ant hill. Full steam ahead to blatant worship of the dumbed-down, brain-dead least common denominator. Click and drool uber alles.

[Mewmaster]

Personally, I hate the idea of these changes.

 

I have a strong philosophical objection to changing basic mechanics of a fully mature MMO. I've seen it done before, and a plurality of the existing players always get screwed somehow.

 

I hate the idea of combining main stats because anything that makes the game more blandly generic is always a mistake.

 

I hate the idea of no longer being able to gear up my companions the way I choose, because they're my companions, dammit. This, for me, is part of the fun of the game, and they're taking that away from me.

 

And I greatly fear these changes will mean crafters getting even more screwed than we already have been by the greed of the Cartel Market. Changes to crafting are one of the most common ways for players to get shafted by "reforms" like this.

 

But whatever, my opinion means nothing. I'm just one more face in the crowd, one more insignificant little ant in the great internet ant hill. Full steam ahead to blatant worship of the dumbed-down, brain-dead least common denominator. Click and drool uber alles.

 

You mean how the games stats already was no different except for the name? Agents used cunning the same was a Bounty Hunter used Aim, or a JEdi Knight used Strength. There already WAS no difference besides name. It is not as if there was a difference in stats to begin with. It is not as if the reason the warrior/knight used Str was because it increased melee damage. nope, it did the same thing as cunning does for an agent

 

why? because the companions NEEDED a specific set of stats? because that is completely bull and you know it. Every trooper companion used aim gear for example, just give them stuff with aim on it and ta da, perfectly fine. if you say differently, i am sorry to say, you must not have been playing the same game i was.

 

crafters already were only useful for the outfit designer and biochem/cybertech were the only ones that actuyally had any real use. if anything, they made crafters more relevant now because now you can change the loot of companions with gear without worrying, as well as the player.

[DreadtechSavant]

Really there is nothing, NOTHING I agree with you in your post.

 

This is just insulting beyond belief.

[GordoKhan]

Personally, I hate the idea of these changes.

 

I have a strong philosophical objection to changing basic mechanics of a fully mature MMO. I've seen it done before, and a plurality of the existing players always get screwed somehow.

 

I hate the idea of combining main stats because anything that makes the game more blandly generic is always a mistake.

 

I hate the idea of no longer being able to gear up my companions the way I choose, because they're my companions, dammit. This, for me, is part of the fun of the game, and they're taking that away from me.

 

And I greatly fear these changes will mean crafters getting even more screwed than we already have been by the greed of the Cartel Market. Changes to crafting are one of the most common ways for players to get shafted by "reforms" like this.

 

But whatever, my opinion means nothing. I'm just one more face in the crowd, one more insignificant little ant in the great internet ant hill. Full steam ahead to blatant worship of the dumbed-down, brain-dead least common denominator. Click and drool uber alles.

 

well said.... too many changes for no real reason.