It's impossible that Vitiate is Valkorion

[Tarbacca]

So are we completely disregarding leaks and instead going with headcanon?

[Diviciacus]

you are in error. first of all, the Emperor wasn't fighting Revan's mental control. the emperor had control of Revan and was rummaging around in his head for stragties, insights etc whenever the need arose.

 

secondly depending on how the timeline goes it might add up reasonably well. the Emperor basicly dissappered for a large span of time around the time the first war ended. it's about 14/15 ATC currently, and with the time jump it'll be 20 ATC. which means, assuming the twins are in their 20s, the Emperor would have been absent around the time he would have had to focus on training them

 

It's 13 ATC in Shadow of Revan. SOR is 3640BBY, and the Treaty of Coruscant is 3653BBY.

 

Illo dicto, the Eternal Empire attacks the galaxy before we are frozen in carbonite: this screenshot here clearly shows an absolutely MASSIVE fleet of Eternal Empire ships attacking a Terminus Destroyer, and the Defender alongside it. And no, they aren't mines, because if you look closely, the configuration matches the ships seen outside the window in the trailer (watch from 0:43-0:50). The trailer makes it obvious that we meet with Valkorion before being frozen (otherwise Lana Beniko/Koth Vortena/HK-55 would be there too, since we know they rescue you from LadyInsanity).

 

Ergo, the attack must also be before we are frozen, since it occurs before we meet Valkorion. Thus also must Arcann be an adult before the attack. You can even see him in the trailer, standing off to the side, face replaced with a convenient "aim here" mask.

 

Has Valkorion somehow become a meat puppet for Vitiate? Perhaps. But it is impossible for him to have been always one.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Diviciacus

[BrianDavion]

Has Valkorion somehow become a meat puppet for Vitiate? Perhaps. But it is impossible for him to have been always one.

 

ok, why?

 

why is it impossiable? the guy's schtick is running around controling multiple bodies after all.

[Infernixx]

Personally, I think Valkorian is the real entity and Vitiate was just someone that he consumed when Vitiate was young.

[Aeristash]

ok, why?

 

why is it impossiable? the guy's schtick is running around controling multiple bodies after all.

 

Because before ziost he was only able to handle one body at a time and those were accounted for.

After the Jedi knight mortally wounded his spirit and sent him into torpor, there is no way he could've been severely weakened on Yavin and controlling Valkorion half a galaxy away. It just doesn't make sense.

 

 

[Cruxa]

During the great hyperspace war, there were no pure human sith lords on korriban. Everyone was a 'pureblood' hybrid/human descendant due to centuries of mating with the first fallen Jedi and their descendants. Since Vitiate was the one who led the remnants of the empire into deep space, he would've had to have been a hybrid originally.

 

I don't think he meant that the Emperor led the Sith in the form of "Valkorion" to the Unknown Regions. If Valkorion would be the original body and Vitiate just a vessel, than it would be perfectly reasonable to use Vitiate as a disguise in the Sith Empire, while leaving his true form of Valkorion temporarily behind.

 

Besides, while it is true that Vitiate was in fact a pureblood, that wouldn't have been necessary to live in the empire during the Great Hyperspace War. Even in that time there were lots of "pure" humans in the Sith Empire. Otherwise it would not have been possible for the Sith Empire in the Unknown Regions to consist of a high amount of humans. The Great Hyperspace War lasted not long enough for them to be originally from the republic (and they wouldn't have been accepted that easily too), so they had to be there before.

Actually, Odile Vaiken from the timeline videos is an example for a human that grew up in the Old Sith Empire before the contact with the republic was reestablished, and was on Korriban in his youth.

So humans weren't uncommon in the Empire at all.

 

As for them being Sith Lords... in the journal of Gnost-Dural it is stated, that the original, "pure" humans who founded the order were for a long time considered by far superior than the primitive Sith. Just in the course of centuries, that began to shift due to the natural force-affinity of the Sith species and therefore potentially greater power. I think it can be concluded from that, that the number of the Jena'ri was much higher than just a handful, as it was possible for them to remain the dominant species over centuries. Later on, there were mostly hybrids, some with more, some with less human/sith blood. But it is nowhere stated that there were no more pure humans at all, although a high percentage of sith blood was know in contrary considered superior to human ancestry.

 

But that's just a sidefact, I also agree that it is highly unlikely/quite impossible for Valkorion being the original body. He ages, after all.

I would go by the theory that Vitiate didn't control Valkorion right from the beginning, even if he is controlling him in the end. The problem with that is just, that I don't think the Zakuul Empire developed independent from the rest galaxy/without the influence of Vitiate. So I definitely think he had his hands in there, but (as already stated) the timeline doesn't really fit the theory, that he controlled the Empire directly and the whole time.

[Viraxis]

This is simple. Vitiate took over the new Emperor's when he left Ziost.

[Aeristash]

I don't think he meant that the Emperor led the Sith in the form of "Valkorion" to the Unknown Regions. If Valkorion would be the original body and Vitiate just a vessel, than it would be perfectly reasonable to use Vitiate as a disguise in the Sith Empire, while leaving his true form of Valkorion temporarily behind.

 

Besides, while it is true that Vitiate was in fact a pureblood, that wouldn't have been necessary to live in the empire during the Great Hyperspace War. Even in that time there were lots of "pure" humans in the Sith Empire. Otherwise it would not have been possible for the Sith Empire in the Unknown Regions to consist of a high amount of humans. The Great Hyperspace War lasted not long enough for them to be originally from the republic (and they wouldn't have been accepted that easily too), so they had to be there before.

Actually, Odile Vaiken from the timeline videos is an example for a human that grew up in the Old Sith Empire before the contact with the republic was reestablished, and was on Korriban in his youth.

So humans weren't uncommon in the Empire at all.

 

As for them being Sith Lords... in the journal of Gnost-Dural it is stated, that the original, "pure" humans who founded the order were for a long time considered by far superior than the primitive Sith. Just in the course of centuries, that began to shift due to the natural force-affinity of the Sith species and therefore potentially greater power. I think it can be concluded from that, that the number of the Jena'ri was much higher than just a handful, as it was possible for them to remain the dominant species over centuries. Later on, there were mostly hybrids, some with more, some with less human/sith blood. But it is nowhere stated that there were no more pure humans at all, although a high percentage of sith blood was know in contrary considered superior to human ancestry.

 

But that's just a sidefact, I also agree that it is highly unlikely/quite impossible for Valkorion being the original body. He ages, after all.

I would go by the theory that Vitiate didn't control Valkorion right from the beginning, even if he is controlling him in the end. The problem with that is just, that I don't think the Zakuul Empire developed independent from the rest galaxy/without the influence of Vitiate. So I definitely think he had his hands in there, but (as already stated) the timeline doesn't really fit the theory, that he controlled the Empire directly and the whole time.

 

Disregarding recent republic defectors and conquered worlds, there are no pure humans in the empire. It is stated in the foundry flash point by hk-47 that the imperial population currently consist of 98.8% sith pureblood descendants. The entirety of the population sharing sith blood doesn't happen over night, it happens when that's all you have to breed with. It's more accurate to call them 'near humans'. Odile Vaiken was a non-force sensitive that grew up on a conquered world in the fringes of the old sith empire. During the time of ragnos, korriban was inhabited by purebloods. This is further emphasized on by that pureblood lord 'abadon?' in the sith academy. I would imagine these conquered humans are what allowed the hybrid siths descendants to once again take on a human mask.

[Atalantia]

This is simple. Vitiate took over the new Emperor's when he left Ziost.

 

 

Well after playing a new Sith Warrior through Ziost, I selected a different conversation option this time and knowing of the expansion this one line got me thinking

 

One of the last conversations with the Wrath, Wrath of course says blah blah stop you Vitiate goes on a ramble about blah blah I don't care, you can't and then at the end states he has a new plan. So this quoted post makes sense to me

[TigerClaww]

what we can judge from the trailer the new empire doesn't really have sith lords yes they are most probably all force sensitive they escape the infighting of the sith and are shaped in valkorian/vitiate's image. he says after ziost he has a new focus so the meaning I take from it is its time to show his true form the republic and empire are stretched thin it wouldn't be hard for a faction to come out of no where and destroy both they have been fighting for years there milataries would be tired morale would be low fighting a war on so many fronts. also it looks like the zakul empire has more advanced tech. in the sith warriors class mission on rishi vowran tells you of these droids following you after luring them out and destroying them you find out they are sent by the emperors hands and the tech is more advanced then anything seen to date. also during the warrior story you find out servant 2 has seen the emperors true form and has gone mad from it

[Pietrastor]

I'm beginning to agree with speculation that the Emperor is some entity that simply took over a pureblood child's body in Marka Ragnos' Empire and originates from somewhere else completely. Maybe Rakata Empire era, King Adas era, so many possibilites Edited August 7, 2015 by Pietrastor

[Cruxa]

Disregarding recent republic defectors and conquered worlds, there are no pure humans in the empire. It is stated in the foundry flash point by hk-47 that the imperial population currently consist of 98.8% sith pureblood descendants. The entirety of the population sharing sith blood doesn't happen over night, it happens when that's all you have to breed with. It's more accurate to call them 'near humans'. Odile Vaiken was a non-force sensitive that grew up on a conquered world in the fringes of the old sith empire. During the time of ragnos, korriban was inhabited by purebloods. This is further emphasized on by that pureblood lord 'abadon?' in the sith academy. I would imagine these conquered humans are what allowed the hybrid siths descendants to once again take on a human mask.

 

That was exactly what I wanted to emphasize with the apostrophes in "pure".

As I said, the original human population was large enough to allow them to maintain the status as the superior race (back then also truly in a pure form) over centuries, not just a short timespan. Of course, as there are roughly 3.000 years between the founding of the order and the Great Hyperspace War, that still leaves plenty of time for a mixing of the bloodlines, as soon as sith ancestry was considered a way to be more powerful. But that's exactly the point: It weren't due to that there were no alternative breeding partners but Sith anymore, it was just beneficial to gain Sith blood. Therefore humans were considered second class citizens over time (as well as non-force users, but as there were mainly Sith and human und nearly all Sith force-sensitive, that's rather synonymous), but they belonged to the empire all the way through, and not just on conquered worlds.

Of course the Sith Lords on Korriban and Ziost were mainly purebloods, that's just a result of the above. Therefore in all sources from that time there are mainly purebloods to be seen - they were considered to be superior and generelly stronger in the force, so nearly all of them had to a degree sith ancestry. That's just a statistical consequence, only the strongest ones came to the core worlds, and the more Sith blood the stronger one was on average (a bit generalized of course, but again, statistics...^^). But that says nothing about the fringe worlds of the empire. Vitiate, after all, was himself from Nathema, a rather unimportant world with a ruler which was considered not much more important. And there were many more of them.

So, it would have been perfectly possible to have a human Sith Lord at that time. Or rather call it "near human which looks from the outside perfectly human"... reminds me a bit of Vemrin and his alien ancestry, which is nowhere to be seen. Could also be true for Valkorion.

 

To the Emperor: I'd also say that he is much older than previously known. Rakatan was the time that came spontaneously to my mind. Always present and observing, changing bodies over time... at least that would explain, how an 8 year old without any training whatsoever could best a Sith Lord (even an unremarkable one). Was always a bit sceptical about that. There are outstanding talents, true, but alas...^^

[Diviciacus]

ok, why?

 

why is it impossiable? the guy's schtick is running around controling multiple bodies after all.

 

It is impossible because at no point is Vitiate ever actually shown controlling multiple bodies.

 

• The Imperial Guard are fanatically and insanely loyal martial combatants. They are ordered, but not directly controlled.
  
• The Emperor's Hand are fanatically and insanely loyal facilitators. They are ordered, but not directly controlled.
  
• The Emperor's Wrath is a fanatically and insanely loyal executioner. He/She is ordered, but not directly controlled.
  
• Children of the Emperor (Knight Story) can be directly controlled, but we don't see what is going on at the other end. There's no evidence that the Voice, who is also directly controlled, is still being controlled back on the cloaked space station in the Dromund system.
  
• Children of the Emperor (Consular Story) are never directly controlled (although the First Son's voice acting has the same modulator applied as Vitiate's voice does, the VA for the First Son is still the VA from the regular person). They serve Vitiate because most of them are pretty much stuck in the cogs of bureaucracy, and suddenly he whispers in their mind you could be so much more... if only you would embrace my power. Being that their lots in life aren't that great, of course they accept. Hell, only one is actually even a Jedi beforehand - the rest are regular people, even troopers and prison guards.
  
• Even on Ziost, we only ever see Vitiate control one body at a time. During cutscenes, yes, he speaks through more than one body, but never do two or more speak at the same time - it's as if he's toying with the Imperial populace, jumping between bodies on a whim just to show the player how outclassed we are.
  
• Again on Ziost, there's no evidence that the people going crazy and shooting up each other are in fact being directly controlled by Vitiate (that is, he is inside their heads, controlling their movements). The Dark Side turning people insane and murderous is old-hat by the time we reach Ziost. Dark Temple, anyone? Morrhage's curse? etc etc.
  

 

After consuming all life on Ziost, it's entirely possible Vitiate gained enough power to dominate the mind of someone similar in power to him, but still limited to a physical body. That is, Valkorion.

[DarthScruffy]

That's not possible. During the great hyperspace war, there were no pure human sith lords on korriban. Everyone was a 'pureblood' hybrid/human descendant due to centuries of mating with the first fallen Jedi and their descendants. Since Vitiate was the one who led the remnants of the empire into deep space, he would've had to have been a hybrid originally. Also in the sacrifice trailer Valkorion clearly ages from a young to old man, marking him as mortal in body at least, so he couldn't have been around too long.

 

What if he was a human force user in the ZE at the exact same time as the GHW stuff?

[DarkSaberMaster]

That is because he is really Kephess.

 

/thread

[Infernixx]

I'm beginning to agree with speculation that the Emperor is some entity that simply took over a pureblood child's body in Marka Ragnos' Empire and originates from somewhere else completely. Maybe Rakata Empire era, King Adas era, so many possibilites

 

Wouldn't it be just nuts if Val/Vit turned out to be one of the original Force Hounds used by the Rakatans?

[Aeristash]

That was exactly what I wanted to emphasize with the apostrophes in "pure".

As I said, the original human population was large enough to allow them to maintain the status as the superior race (back then also truly in a pure form) over centuries, not just a short timespan. Of course, as there are roughly 3.000 years between the founding of the order and the Great Hyperspace War, that still leaves plenty of time for a mixing of the bloodlines, as soon as sith ancestry was considered a way to be more powerful. But that's exactly the point: It weren't due to that there were no alternative breeding partners but Sith anymore, it was just beneficial to gain Sith blood. Therefore humans were considered second class citizens over time (as well as non-force users, but as there were mainly Sith and human und nearly all Sith force-sensitive, that's rather synonymous), but they belonged to the empire all the way through, and not just on conquered worlds.

Of course the Sith Lords on Korriban and Ziost were mainly purebloods, that's just a result of the above. Therefore in all sources from that time there are mainly purebloods to be seen - they were considered to be superior and generelly stronger in the force, so nearly all of them had to a degree sith ancestry. That's just a statistical consequence, only the strongest ones came to the core worlds, and the more Sith blood the stronger one was on average (a bit generalized of course, but again, statistics...^^). But that says nothing about the fringe worlds of the empire. Vitiate, after all, was himself from Nathema, a rather unimportant world with a ruler which was considered not much more important. And there were many more of them.

So, it would have been perfectly possible to have a human Sith Lord at that time. Or rather call it "near human which looks from the outside perfectly human"... reminds me a bit of Vemrin and his alien ancestry, which is nowhere to be seen. Could also be true for Valkorion.

 

To the Emperor: I'd also say that he is much older than previously known. Rakatan was the time that came spontaneously to my mind. Always present and observing, changing bodies over time... at least that would explain, how an 8 year old without any training whatsoever could best a Sith Lord (even an unremarkable one). Was always a bit sceptical about that. There are outstanding talents, true, but alas...^^

 

That's just the thing, there was no original human population. The first humans to ever arrive on the sith homeworld were Ajunta pall, Sorzus, Remulus and Xoxaan when they crashed on the planet after their exile from the order during the hundred year war. Before they set foot on the planet, the sith were a primitive species studying primitive magic and ignorant of space flight. Only one out of the five was female so even in the unlikely event that the others each took a turn breeding with her, the genetic pool would still bottle neck to impotency within a few generations. The only way there could have been a viable population is if the sith conquered & enslaved other humans from other worlds, which would still in no way allow them to rise in power as the sith are seen to just now be accepting slaves into their fold as seen in the si story. However seeing as the sith didn't discover space flight for close to a century after contact, the only people the sith lords could've mated with in that time is the original sith species themselves, creating the first hybrids.

 

And as Lord 'abadon'? states : "Korriban was wrought by the true blooded sith, a crimson race of conquerors who raised the statues around us. Over the centuries however our people mingled with slaves". Now seeing as the first fallen jedi were considered gods to the sith, the timeline of this statement has to have taken place after interbreeding with the species and bringing human slaves into the empire. Now seeing as the empire was in hiding for over a millennium, centuries would place the human induction back into the gene pool as fairly recently, thus maintaining my point that only hybrids were sith lords at the time of the great hyperspace war. As no slave would've been allowed to rise above fodder.

[Aeristash]

What if he was a human force user in the ZE at the exact same time as the GHW stuff?

 

That would be viable if he hadn't aged to an old man in the span of 20 years during the sacrifice trailer. If it only takes 20 years for his black hair to turn grey, I highly doubt he'd fare any better with 1000+. I'm pretty sure if Valkorion is a vessel that the body is a mortal one.

[typenine]

It is impossible because at no point is Vitiate ever actually shown controlling multiple bodies.

 

• The Imperial Guard are fanatically and insanely loyal martial combatants. They are ordered, but not directly controlled.
  
• The Emperor's Hand are fanatically and insanely loyal facilitators. They are ordered, but not directly controlled.
  
• The Emperor's Wrath is a fanatically and insanely loyal executioner. He/She is ordered, but not directly controlled.
  
• Children of the Emperor (Knight Story) can be directly controlled, but we don't see what is going on at the other end. There's no evidence that the Voice, who is also directly controlled, is still being controlled back on the cloaked space station in the Dromund system.
  
• Children of the Emperor (Consular Story) are never directly controlled (although the First Son's voice acting has the same modulator applied as Vitiate's voice does, the VA for the First Son is still the VA from the regular person). They serve Vitiate because most of them are pretty much stuck in the cogs of bureaucracy, and suddenly he whispers in their mind you could be so much more... if only you would embrace my power. Being that their lots in life aren't that great, of course they accept. Hell, only one is actually even a Jedi beforehand - the rest are regular people, even troopers and prison guards.
  
• Even on Ziost, we only ever see Vitiate control one body at a time. During cutscenes, yes, he speaks through more than one body, but never do two or more speak at the same time - it's as if he's toying with the Imperial populace, jumping between bodies on a whim just to show the player how outclassed we are.
  
• Again on Ziost, there's no evidence that the people going crazy and shooting up each other are in fact being directly controlled by Vitiate (that is, he is inside their heads, controlling their movements). The Dark Side turning people insane and murderous is old-hat by the time we reach Ziost. Dark Temple, anyone? Morrhage's curse? etc etc.
  

 

After consuming all life on Ziost, it's entirely possible Vitiate gained enough power to dominate the mind of someone similar in power to him, but still limited to a physical body. That is, Valkorion.

 

 

The Imperial Guard, as those elite warriors who served the Emperor were called, were a group of non–Force-sensitives who served the Emperor with fanatic loyalty and unmatched combat prowess. Trained in academies on dark side worlds, each member of the Guard was brought before the Emperor himself and bound to his will, making their loyalty absolute. Moreover, the Guard answered only to the Emperor—the Dark Council had no control over the group's activities

 

 

One of his first actions was to select twelve Force-sensitive pureblood Sith to become his Hand: twelve Servants who shared their master's longevity in exchange for allowing him to draw on their strength in order to sustain his powers. The Hand's leader, Servant One, was the first to be bound to the Emperor, while his constant companion Servant Two gained prophetic powers through a close connection to the Emperor's mind at the expense of his own sanity. The shadowy organization was known only to a few members of the Dark Council throughout the centuries, as they operated from obscurity to fulfill their master's will.

 

 

In his search for a way to completely escape death, the one thing he truly feared, the Emperor delved into many arcane and lost techniques of the dark side. Developing ways to link his consciousness with those of other beings, he soon gained a significant number of servants who were fanatically loyal to and intricately linked with their master. As the reach of his consciousness grew ever greater, he became capable of dividing his focus among multiple agents of his will across the galaxy while still maintaining complete possession of his current Voice. Because of that ability, those who received audiences with the Emperor often gained the correct impression that the Sith was listening to other conversations even while speaking.

 

 

Everything is subject to debate as we know too little

 

 

 

That would be viable if he hadn't aged to an old man in the span of 20 years during the sacrifice trailer. If it only takes 20 years for his black hair to turn grey, I highly doubt he'd fare any better with 1000+. I'm pretty sure if Valkorion is a vessel that the body is a mortal one.

 

 

Just thinking here, who said Arcann is only 25(ish)?

If Vitiate is Valkorion

Vitiate shared(for lack of a better word) his immortality with Lord Scourge so isn't it possible they could be older?

Edited August 7, 2015 by typenine

[Aeristash]

Just thinking here, who said Arcann is only 25(ish)?

If Vitiate is Valkorion

Vitiate shared(for lack of a better word) his immortality with Lord Scourge so isn't it possible they could be older?

 

Sacrifice clearly showed he and his brother aging and going to war with the empire & republic as very young men post pc actions. And seeing as one was nearly killed in a bomber attack, one brother died and Valkorion couldn't stand to look at either one before Arcann killed his brother, I highly doubt he blessed them with immortality. Especially when he himself was aging as opposed to Lord scourge staying youthful forever. So with that, no I don't believe it's possible they could be older than depicted.

[RameiArashi]

One only need compare Lana, the pc and Arcanns age proximity to see that during the sacrifice trailer, in the years when Valkorion was breeding his sons for the darkside, Vitiate was still very much fighting Revans mental control and ruling the empire. These are clearly two different dark emperors.

 

Revan was the one being controlled. by Vitiate. Everything that happens with Revan was part of Vitiate's plan. Revan was never in control of Vitiate. Revan is an arrogant fool.

 

Vitiate controlled everyone our character killed on Ziost. He didn't have more than one speak at the same time because that would have made him hard to understand if 3 o 4 people were talking at once.

Edited August 7, 2015 by RameiArashi

[neoraFIVE]

So far, it appears that Vitiate has different levels of possession.

 

Level 1 - Children of the Emperor: The Children are mentally linked to him. Usually, they are like sleeper agents. They can act on their own, but their Child personality comes out when they are under his influence. Here, they are bound to his will to an extent. However, he can speak through a single one (in his voice) and completely control them if he focuses on them. Full possession can be ended by fully embracing the Light Side (Wall of Light) or by killing them.

 

Level 2 - Ziost: Individuals are puppets with their personalities completely suppressed. They are completely bound to his will. He feeds them lines if they speak. Furthermore, he can speak through a single one (in his voice) if he focuses on them. Possession can be ended temporarily by knocking out the individual, or permanently by killing them.

 

Level 3 - Voice of the Emperor: This is Vitiate's actual host body. Unlike the other puppets, he actually resides in this body; it is his personal vessel. He completely destroys the original host's mind/personality. He speaks and acts directly through the Voice. Possession of this individual is permanent and can only be ended by their death.

[ToMyMa]

Personally, I think Valkorian is the real entity and Vitiate was just someone that he consumed when Vitiate was young.

 

Which was what I said but "that isn't possible"

 

Seriously, what Infernixx says is probably how it is.

[Cruxa]

That's just the thing, there was no original human population. The first humans to ever arrive on the sith homeworld were Ajunta pall, Sorzus, Remulus and Xoxaan when they crashed on the planet after their exile from the order during the hundred year war. Before they set foot on the planet, the sith were a primitive species studying primitive magic and ignorant of space flight. Only one out of the five was female so even in the unlikely event that the others each took a turn breeding with her, the genetic pool would still bottle neck to impotency within a few generations. The only way there could have been a viable population is if the sith conquered & enslaved other humans from other worlds, which would still in no way allow them to rise in power as the sith are seen to just now be accepting slaves into their fold as seen in the si story. However seeing as the sith didn't discover space flight for close to a century after contact, the only people the sith lords could've mated with in that time is the original sith species themselves, creating the first hybrids.

 

They were a bit more than five (about twelve, I think?), it's just that the other ones were too unimportant to be named.

And I also thought that's true once, but according to Gnost-Dural the story went a bit different. What was previously known, was that they had hyperspace travel from the beginning. Sorzus herself traveled far in the next years, und found new worlds/worlds that were previously lost. What we also know is, that the original Jena'ri thought the Sith to be a primitive species and practically enslaved them. And what is also known from Gnost-Dural is, that humans remained there for centuries at least.

So at least from my perpective it is the most likely alternative, that the original humans interbreeded at first with humans from fringe worlds, which were still considered worthier than a slave species. Only over centuries that changed to the known situation, but humans still remained in the empire, albeit not with their previous privileged status.

But maybe the question here is how reliable a source Gnost-Dural is. As I said, I also had your view a really long time, and just changed it a few years ago when reading the journal. But as he was accurate with most of his findings and conclusions, I think it's not far from the truth.

 

Sacrifice clearly showed he and his brother aging and going to war with the empire & republic as very young men post pc actions.

 

Just a sidenote: The complete aging of Valkorion and the brothers takes place before there is a definite timeline established in the trailer. Could be possible that he first wanted them to grow up, and then gained immortality. Theoretically it would be possible that whole first minute of the trailer takes place thousands of years in the past, as their appearance from the first attack to the end of the trailer remains the same (as it could have been for thousands of years before).

 

But really, I wouldn't believe that for a minute, it's really far-fetched.

And I don't think that Arcann could remain calm that long.^^

[Pagy]

Nay. To your first point: The treaty of Coruscant was only made possible due to Revan exerting mental control over the emperor. This is stated in game. I believe revan tells you during the foundry fp

this is stated in game by revan, a mentally unstable, self-absorbed lunatic revan.

 

doesn't mean its true or untrue.