PvP Power Leveling Bug? Rumor?

[Pulpp]

And what if I just want to PvP? Am I supposed to not play the game until this is "fixed?"

 

Yup. Welcome to day 1 of release of an MMO and/or content.

 

Feigning ignorance is not a defense of exploiting. At a certain point, you can be expected to know something is broken and you should leave it alone. If that responsibility is too much, then you shouldn't have accepted the ToS.

[Beleb]

Pretty simple here. You go to a bank machine, and request 20 dollars from you account. Instead you are greeted with 200$ dollars instead, by accident of the bank. If you take that 180$, pocket it walking away thinking 'yippy' free money. Wrong, you've actually stolen 180$, you can, and will be charged by police if you did not report it. (or they will simply take whats was rightfully there's from your account anyways) Same deal here, just because the bank machine (The warzone) is spewing out loads of cash (xp), it does not make it there fault, it's yours for turning into a thief.

 

What if I had more than $200 in my acct? I would just assume that it was my money either way...

[Zocat]

Hit them hard - hit them swift.

Complete rollback to lv1 for affected chars, where you see the described behaviour multiple times (leaving, always queing with people leaving, ...).

[mandrillagon]

Perhaps, it still doesn't change the fact. The second you know its broken, and you simply do it anyways. Theft, plain and simple. In a sense, they are 'stealing' xp from bioware. Using a known broken system. If it happens by accident during the bonafide match, it wasn't fraudulent. If you change the bonafide match, to on purpose. That is a fraudulent act. Hence, exploit. Very simple.

 

Yup, a great way to phrase it.

[Slowne]

I personally think this does need to be fixed - those who gained from the bug need to be situated. But how? I'm not going to say ban those affected or remove their characters.

 

The situation is, to my knowledge, that there are just enough players in the servers for the warzone queues to work properly. This is not, and I repeat, not the fault of the players. Some may legitimately be wanting PvP, and it is not in their control whether or not they gain from this situation.

 

In short, this is caused by Bioware not letting enough people in initially. Something should be done, but punishing the players feels unfair.

 

In short? Probably going to have to suck it up.

 

Please read what they maybe doing...

 

1) Group of co-ordinated players all queue up for a warzone at the same time and are placed in the same shard.

 

2) WZ starts and thus is removed from the list so that people still in the queue will be placed in the next available shard.

 

3) After a brief period of time, a specified number of people drop out, and the rest wait for the shard to close.

 

4) .....rinse and repeat.

 

5) Profit.

 

Server population has nothing do to with it, nor would cross-server WZ have anything to do with taking care of the problem.

 

As for catching them.....BW trawls the database for anyone over level 20 after, say 12 hours, and then trawls those characters for activity levels. Believe it....if Turbine could catch the skirmish exploiters with all that buggy programming, BW will get these guys.

 

Not my words but needs repeating

[mnemonic]

I just hope they fix this somehow I will be on a pvp server that's my only issue with this

 

EDIT: Oh yeah I joined Oct. 08 so I am epic blah blah /endsarcasm

Edited December 14, 2011 by mnemonic

[BaskaN]

did anyone share this thread on twitter or fb ?

[SneakyErvin]

If BGs weren't meant to start without enough players, it would have either been fixed in beta or put on the known issues list to be fixed in live.

 

But it seems like you don't understand how BG queueing works.

 

A BG starts when enough players hit the "queue" button, however not all of those players will hit the"accept" button to join the queue. Therefore there will be a few spots empty that would normally be filled with players that queued afterward. At this time, there aren't enough people to re-fill the queue. Thus, the game waits 120 seconds for more people and if not enough show up, the instance closes.

 

This has nothing to do with the queue starting too soon, it has everything to do with the lack of people hititng "accept."

 

Then they should just remove exp for BGs that end prematurely or have the game run its full time. And I doubt there are less players per server than what we had during the last 2 betas, where this wasnt an issue.

 

Its still an exploit because people keep doing it over and over, normal people would stop after maybe 5 games, mostly because there wouldnt be any PvP going on and leveling would be a better option. But its the min/maxers that do it probably, the honor per hour *********s that litter WoW. They see the honor rolling in even when the game ends early, do some calculations and keep doing it.

[joeypesci]

My goodness, now people are using the join dates of others on the forums as an argument for their lack of knowledge? This is almost as bad as the "CE VIP KEYHOLDERS" and "I PREORDERED, THEREFORE I DESERVE EVERYTHING" entitlement kiddies.

 

Yep, it's a sad day.

 

And I was hoping the forum wipe was gonna clean the place up. But in a about an hour of the forums opening up all the crap came back

[stealthrider]

Guess what people? Not everyone enjoys PvE. Plenty of people will want to level through PvP because

 

1) they enjoy PvP

 

2) they can then enjoy the story without having to deal with fighting stupid AI

 

So stop calling for the removal of PvP exp. And for those saying PvPers should just not PvP until this is fixed, doesn't that give PvEers an unfair level advantage? Won't the PvEers then have higher levels and better gear once the PvPers are "allowed" back into PvP zones?

[Rezimo]

I personally think this does need to be fixed - those who gained from the bug need to be situated. But how? I'm not going to say ban those affected or remove their characters.

 

The situation is, to my knowledge, that there are just enough players in the servers for the warzone queues to work properly. This is not, and I repeat, not the fault of the players. Some may legitimately be wanting PvP, and it is not in their control whether or not they gain from this situation.

 

In short, this is caused by Bioware not letting enough people in initially. Something should be done, but punishing the players feels unfair.

 

In short? Probably going to have to suck it up.

 

I could be completely wrong, and if I am then bring about the full punishment.

 

Wrong, sorry. It needs to be fixed and immediately. When population dwindles on some servers post launch the same issue will reappear. When the population is at its lowest during night time the same situation will reappear, etc, etc.

 

You cannot use the "if it works don't fix it" rule here because it doesn't work. The servers need to come down and be patched with an immediate fix for this. How they deal with the players who "exploited" this issue will then be up to Bioware. If they slap them on the wrist then my impression of Bioware will be not very high. If they ban those who blatantly used this then my impression of Bioware will be very high. Action needs to be taken and imho should already be underway!

[Nanotech]

I never really understood why some people believe to be more entitled to post something or to judge others because of their join date.

 

Nor have I. Pretentious? Forum elitism? Didn't get enough gold stars in elementary school? Who knows?

Edited December 14, 2011 by Nanotech

[itivino]

All you elitists think people will somehow know BW's intentions when they just want to pvp.

 

Do you think an 11 year old who loves star wars and wants to pvp who doesn't know any better and just keeps queuing for battlegrounds to pwn some jedi should be banned? You have to assume that a large portion of the population is >13 and don't know anything about "bugs" or "exploits"

[mountains]

I don't blame the players, I blame Bioware for not catching this issue before it became an issue.

 

You absolutely have to blame the players. If you don't, every single player interested in competing for server first boss kills, or just getting a head start on PvP, will abuse Warzones. It's just simple economics, if anyone here is familiar; you keep on repeating an action until the cost of an action is greater than the benefit. If you're hungry and someone is handing out free slices of pizza, you'll keep on eating pizza until you aren't hungry any more.

 

Marginal benefit of exploiting: half an hour of leveling in a few minutes work

Marginal cost of exploting: zero

 

The best decision is to abuse this Warzone bug until the marginal cost equals the marginal benefit, which is to say until you're level 50 and there's no benefit from abusing Warzones any more.

[noctivagus]

Guess what people? Not everyone enjoys PvE. Plenty of people will want to level through PvP because

 

1) they enjoy PvP

 

2) they can then enjoy the story without having to deal with fighting stupid AI

 

So stop calling for the removal of PvP exp. And for those saying PvPers should just not PvP until this is fixed, doesn't that give PvEers an unfair level advantage? Won't the PvEers then have higher levels and better gear once the PvPers are "allowed" back into PvP zones?

 

So there's no one actively exploiting PVP that's doing it solely for the fast leveling? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

 

Also, if you don't want to PVE at all, don't you lose out on your spaceship, companions, etc? You can't purely PVP...

Edited December 14, 2011 by noctivagus

[stealthrider]

Please read what they maybe doing...

 

1) Group of co-ordinated players all queue up for a warzone at the same time and are placed in the same shard.

 

2) WZ starts and thus is removed from the list so that people still in the queue will be placed in the next available shard.

 

3) After a brief period of time, a specified number of people drop out, and the rest wait for the shard to close.

 

4) .....rinse and repeat.

 

5) Profit.

 

Server population has nothing do to with it, nor would cross-server WZ have anything to do with taking care of the problem.

 

As for catching them.....BW trawls the database for anyone over level 20 after, say 12 hours, and then trawls those characters for activity levels. Believe it....if Turbine could catch the skirmish exploiters with all that buggy programming, BW will get these guys.

 

Not my words but needs repeating

 

 

This is not how a BG queue system works. Once the second group leaves, the instance is still open for other players to join, for another 120 seconds.

 

Unless BW did something completely new and different, BGs do not simply "disappear" from queues once they are full. If a player leaves a BG, his spot is opened for another player to take his place.

[Aiyana]

If you only go a few times and realize what is happening then no exploit , but if you keep doing it time and time again then yes its a exploit. Ban hammer time please.

[stealthrider]

So there's no one actively exploiting PVP that's doing it solely for the fast leveling? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

 

Also, if you don't want to PVE at all, don't you lose out on your spaceship, companions, etc? You can't purely PVP...

 

Yes I can. I can enjoy the story on my own time. I don't need my ship, companions or anything but gear to PvP, and I can get gear through PvP.

[Zorvan]

For someone that barely joined about two months ago, you got quite the mouth of demands there friend. Patience, or do the rest a favor, and keep your demands to yourself. You're not helping anyway.

 

You joined after me, and I say your opinion is null and void and you need to keep them to yourself.

 

Using a join date as some sort of lame indicator of authority to make yourself seem more important than you are is wonderful isn't it?

[Nanotech]

You absolutely have to blame the players. If you don't, every single player interested in competing for server first boss kills, or just getting a head start on PvP, will abuse Warzones. It's just simple economics, if anyone here is familiar; you keep on repeating an action until the cost of an action is greater than the benefit. If you're hungry and someone is handing out free slices of pizza, you'll keep on eating pizza until you aren't hungry any more.

 

Marginal benefit of exploiting: half an hour of leveling in a few minutes work

Marginal cost of exploting: zero

 

The best decision is to abuse this Warzone bug until the marginal cost equals the marginal benefit, which is to say until you're level 50 and there's no benefit from abusing Warzones any more.

 

Well said, but I think the grey area comes from the fact that this is still early access. No one officially owns the game, yet. Bans are a little melodramatic at this point; however, rollbacks would be suitable, indeed.

[silvanaion]

Yep, it's a sad day.

 

And I was hoping the forum wipe was gonna clean the place up. But in a about an hour of the forums opening up all the crap came back

 

The problem was anyone who preordered including those that "cancelled" get access till the 20th still, then..then it will at least be legit:confused: whiners

[mountains]

Reposting my take here RE: Noviru's request.

 

(FW: Not a permanent ban. Read the thread)

 

Ban players who are abusing Warzones.

 

There's a few quick points to get across here:

 

1) This exploit uses game mechanics. No "hacking," no "cheating."

 

2) This is not an intended use of game mechanics. Bioware clearly didn't think players would use Warzones like this. It's not the way you're intended to level in this game. It's an exploit of a somewhat flawed game mechanic, and should be treated as such.

 

3) Players who make exploit or make unintended use of game mechanics should be punished. It's a hard line to cross, but players shouldn't be encouraged to abuse the game like this. Right now, if the bug is simply fixed and there's no punishment handed out, it it is in every powerleveling player's best interest to abuse Warzones to level quickly. There's no cost to exploiting, and a heck of a lot of gain to be had (you'll probably be close to 50 by the end of the day tomorrow, if not sooner).

 

Like I said, it's hard for MMO developers to come to a decision to punish players like this. But it's necessary. Blizzard had a problem just a few weeks ago where players used a bug in the Looking For Raid loot mechanics to obtain loot from the same boss multiple times within a single week; even the very best guilds did this because they were afraid of falling behind their competition and missing out on world ranked boss kills. Blizzard was brave enough to bite the bullet and give players who exploited the mechanic an 8-day suspension, and that's exactly what Bioware ought to do.

 

I have absolutely no interest in abusing Warzones myself, but the incentives right now are very wrong if Bioware doesn't act. It's the same thing that happened in World of Warcraft; competitive or endgame-focused players don't want to exploit, but they will if they feel they have to in order to stay competitive with other players.

 

You absolutely have to blame the players. If you don't, every single player interested in competing for server first boss kills, or just getting a head start on PvP, will abuse Warzones. It's just simple economics, if anyone here is familiar; you keep on repeating an action until the cost of an action is greater than the benefit. If you're hungry and someone is handing out free slices of pizza, you'll keep on eating pizza until you aren't hungry any more.

 

Marginal benefit of exploiting: half an hour of leveling in a few minutes work

Marginal cost of exploting: zero

 

The best decision is to abuse this Warzone bug until the marginal cost equals the marginal benefit, which is to say until you're level 50 and there's no benefit from abusing Warzones any more.

Edited December 14, 2011 by mountains

[noctivagus]

This is not how a BG queue system works. Once the second group leaves, the instance is still open for other players to join, for another 120 seconds.

 

Unless BW did something completely new and different, BGs do not simply "disappear" from queues once they are full. If a player leaves a BG, his spot is opened for another player to take his place.

 

That's why the scarcity of PVP queuers is important. Without a lot of people in the queue, there are better odds that no one will fill those spots.

[Anwarr]

All you elitists think people will somehow know BW's intentions when they just want to pvp.

 

Do you think an 11 year old who loves star wars and wants to pvp who doesn't know any better and just keeps queuing for battlegrounds to pwn some jedi should be banned? You have to assume that a large portion of the population is >13 and don't know anything about "bugs" or "exploits"

 

So your kid was cheating I take it? Maybe you should try supervising your child when playing or at least give them some moral compass to be able to realize when they are breaking the rules?

[mandrillagon]

If you only go a few times and realize what is happening then no exploit , but if you keep doing it time and time again then yes its a exploit. Ban hammer time please.

 

Can't wait for the banhammer or rollbacks to hit these people exploiting.