Death_By_Smiley Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 snip People who expect no bugs to be released don't have even a basic understanding of software engineering. That said, when a critical vulnerability is identified, you HAVE to address it immediately. I just don't get why they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejbsuperbat Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 So- players are banned for 2 weeks if they use this to buy. Ok- if I do to a vendor and it says "temple chair for 1 credit" I will leave the vendor. How long till this is fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) So- players are banned for 2 weeks if they use this to buy. Ok- if I do to a vendor and it says "temple chair for 1 credit" I will leave the vendor. How long till this is fixed? Where are you getting the 2 week ban length from? Edited June 24, 2015 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death_By_Smiley Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Where are you getting the 2 week ban length from? This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Comtois Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) I think a 30 day ban and a character reset are in order. If your toon had very little, you farmed creds, bought all kinds of expensive gear with said creds then everything on your toon be reset to the day of update so anything earned thereafter be taken. That's just my opinion. Edited June 24, 2015 by Matt_Comtois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDiggler Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 There will be many people who benefited from this due to ults simply because they can't ban everyone who benefited. If you created an account to simply get banned, you could of bought up tons of stuff off the market including stuff from your main and hide your exploit. They will then either have to remove the money from everyone who got some from you, ban everyone including people who had nothing to do with it, or let it slide. Its clear they will let GTN transactions slide and ban the fake account, thus the exploiters will feed their ults lots of credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) So- players are banned for 2 weeks if they use this to buy. Ok- if I do to a vendor and it says "temple chair for 1 credit" I will leave the vendor. How long till this is fixed? Then buy 50 and use them all and be done with it. What part of Eric's post you don't understand? Edited June 24, 2015 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 People who expect no bugs to be released don't have even a basic understanding of software engineering. That said, when a critical vulnerability is identified, you HAVE to address it immediately. I just don't get why they aren't. Sadly it appears they don't have the people and / or processes in place to quickly deal with these kinds of bugs, nor the ability to simply hotfix / restart servers as is possible with other MMOs. From what I've seen with SWTOR, even something simple like changing the vendor price or removing the item requires a new client build with the associated patch and server update process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejbsuperbat Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Then buy 50 and use them all and be done with it. What part of Eric's post you don't understand? Why would I buy them? I said I would go away from vendor AND not buy any. I don't want to be banned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Comtois Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 This has nothing to do with selling on gtn. I see people sell anniversary art in gen chat. It has to do with selling the item back to vendor. Personally I really think they should perma ban everyone who used exploit or character reset. Halo did it long ago when people used an explout all gear earned through exploit was taken, this should happen here. Not comparing this game to Halo but it can be done and should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Why would I buy them? I said I would go away from vendor AND not buy any. I don't want to be banned! Ok, let's try again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) This has nothing to do with selling on gtn. I see people sell anniversary art in gen chat. It has to do with selling the item back to vendor. Personally I really think they should perma ban everyone who used exploit or character reset. Halo did it long ago when people used an explout all gear earned through exploit was taken, this should happen here. Not comparing this game to Halo but it can be done and should. Sorry but laundering the ill gotten credits through the GTN is the problem. If all players could do with the exploit was to say gain items or currency that could not be traded, then sure, the easy solution would be to ban the account which would remove the items. However, in this case players can use the exploit to gain unlimited credits, then in turn use those credits to buy and sell items off the GTN and use any number of methods to try and hide the credits / items: Buy items and send / trade the items to another account (their own / friend / random). Buy expensive / rare items and simply destroy them to drive prices higher. Buy items posted by themselves (on other account) or friends at hyper-inflated prices to move the credits. Buy expensive items and relist for low prices to buy themselves (on another account) or for their friends to buy. In those scenarios, especially if they chain several transactions and spread the buying and selling between their own / friends accounts and random accounts, how is Bioware going to remove the items / credits? Edited June 24, 2015 by DawnAskham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death_By_Smiley Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 This has nothing to do with selling on gtn. I see people sell anniversary art in gen chat. It has to do with selling the item back to vendor. Personally I really think they should perma ban everyone who used exploit or character reset. Halo did it long ago when people used an explout all gear earned through exploit was taken, this should happen here. Not comparing this game to Halo but it can be done and should. The problem is people can USE that money in the meantime. Let's say I rob a bank, then go buy 40 sandwiches at subway. At that point, getting the money back is tricky. Do you go to Subway and say "You have to give us back that money. It was ill-gotten." Subway can't get the sandwiches back (the same is the case with many consumable items, mounts, gear that binds on equip, etc. What if Subway has already spent the money on new ovens, and doesn't have it? Do you go to the oven maker and get their money? The longer you wait, the larger the effect becomes. Once money is circulating in the economy, extracting it becomes difficult to impossible. At this point you're looking at a large scale rollback as the only way to get the money out of the system. Which has a ton of other negative side affects. Money can also be laundered through the GTN by buying and selling items at low prices. But then you have to determine the difference between a legitimately good deal and laundering. It's a massive clusterf***, and the only way to stop it is to take the servers down the SECOND it's noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraah Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 And what is your justification for that? Do you think that should make you immune to sanctions? Exploiting is exploiting. You even admit you knew it was an exploit when you did it. As for people "accidentally" doing it, maybe it's possible someone bought a stack of 99 (since you can), discovered after using the first 50 that that was the max, then sold the excess 49 back. Other than that, claims of "accident" don't hold any water: "Oh, I 'accidentally' bought 10,000 because I thought I could unlock 10,000 for my SH and then I had to sell them back after the first 50." So if it were my policy and it were easily discoverable, anyone who sold more than 49 back to the vendor would get a spanking (and not the good kind). Justification? I wasn't thinking it through in that much detail, it was more along the lines of "They didn't, did they? Oops they did. Hmm, maybe that wasn't the cleverest thing I ever did, I should probably buy those back from the vendor, so I don't profit from it..." which is what I did at that point. At no point was their any malicious intent, much less any thought of using the exploit to make money. I guess that is the reason I don't think I should be punished. Of course ignorance is no excuse per se, but the major factor is that no harm came form it at all (to use the bank example, I saw the open door, wandered through wondering what's going, picked up a bag of money, put it back and left, leaving everything as I found it. ) Personally I think only people who used this to actually make money (infact, more than 10k, ie more than 1 stack, which *could* conceivably be accidental, more than this is almost 100% certain to be intentional) should be punished. Having seen the draconian sanctions some people (unfairly if true) got for Ziost, I realise I might still be banned, but I don't actually see a good reason for it. Others might disagree. As for your last point, I have regularly bought stuff from a vendor, tried to equip it and then discovered I had forgotten tip closer the vendor window and sold it instead. I am sure this has happened to a few people with these chairs too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 The update was released with the exploit in place, they told people not to do it. They told people not to do it hours after the servers went back up. Not before, the launcher wasn't updated to show this upon logging in after the servers went back up, only hours afterwards. I'm not defending my actions, or anyone else's actions, but get your facts straight before going down the "holier than thou" route. The bit that gets me is that (on my server) players are still doing it, I've seen at least one player sat by the vendor for hours (no doubt using a macro). Why anyone would do that, after a launcher warning was added is beyond belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 They told people not to do it hours after the servers went back up. Not before, the launcher wasn't updated to show this upon logging in after the servers went back up, only hours afterwards. I'm not defending my actions, or anyone else's actions, but get your facts straight before going down the "holier than thou" route. The bit that gets me is that (on my server) players are still doing it, I've seen at least one player sat by the vendor for hours (no doubt using a macro). Why anyone would do that, after a launcher warning was added is beyond belief. An hour after they went live. And everyone was well-aware of the exploit right from the start since Fleet Chat was thick with talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CmdrShpd Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 False. There has been an increase in number of people using the speed hack program, just not everyone uses it at 100 % speed. Why is that? Because BW doesn't do anything about people ACTUALLY cheating in game. In turn you will eventually see it spill over to pve, it is just a matter of time. The speed hack is also causing people to quit the game because they see that BW doesn't care enough to ban speed hackers, but they ban the people reporting them. That is a bit more damaging than a damned chair glitch. Yeah, I'm not buying your argument. Like I said, speedhackers should be punished. But this exploit will deal far more critical damage to the game very quickly if left unchecked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkajion Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I know this may sound stupid, but I'd feel more content with myself by gaining my own credits via legitimate safe methods. There's more pride that comes with it, gaining a million credits after long and difficult work feels much more rewarding than standing before a vendor and mashing the mouse button, and the possibility of getting banned by doing that makes it even less rewarding and more pathetic. On another note, people should get perma-banned over temp-banned. If it's a temp-ban, make sure the credits they gained and the items they've bought using it are removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaarrrgon Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I suppose Bioware figured there was enough knowledge about the exploit to warrant a mass warning to those who were thinking to do it. Actually their warning was the only way how I noticed it. The update was released with the exploit in place, they told people not to do it. They shouldn't tell people. Just fix it. Btw. credis don't do anything to game balance at all. Can't buy gear with it, only cosmetic "crap". So consequences are minimal anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Wulff Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Btw. credis don't do anything to game balance at all. Can't buy gear with it, only cosmetic "crap". So consequences are minimal anyway... Right the in game currency can't be used to buy gear. I guess I've been playing wrong buying things with those credits all these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Right the in game currency can't be used to buy gear. I guess I've been playing wrong buying things with those credits all these years. I can buy my way into a HM TOS and/or HM Ravagers run and get 198 Set pieces for 10mil a piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Actually their warning was the only way how I noticed it. They shouldn't tell people. Just fix it. Btw. credis don't do anything to game balance at all. Can't buy gear with it, only cosmetic "crap". So consequences are minimal anyway... i agree with you.. but the cosmetic crap does the game for a lot of players..hypercrates, the GTN, now with the outfits..also 38 grade items became craftable..so if someone can buy 10 198 MH eyes closed you've a probelm i guess. btw i'll buy one and place it next to my meat tree, cora mount and cartel slot.......lel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) This has nothing to do with selling on gtn. I see people sell anniversary art in gen chat. It has to do with selling the item back to vendor. Personally I really think they should perma ban everyone who used exploit or character reset. Halo did it long ago when people used an explout all gear earned through exploit was taken, this should happen here. Not comparing this game to Halo but it can be done and should. GTN is not the problem in this case. GTN is a money laundering tool after you get these credits! So lets say one gold-seller can do this on "fake" acc, get an item from GTN or another vendor and resell it 2 times. Lets track this crap now without legit users banning. ALSO! Do not forget that with 60cc you can sell it on new server. A perfect solution with no tracks. Edited June 24, 2015 by Glower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CmdrShpd Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Btw. credis don't do anything to game balance at all. Can't buy gear with it, only cosmetic "crap". So consequences are minimal anyway... So all those crafted hilts I've payed for by buying the mats with credits and trading them to the crafter never existed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaarrrgon Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Right the in game currency can't be used to buy gear. I guess I've been playing wrong buying things with those credits all these years. Well, what do you buy? Not many 198 stuff available for credits I'd say. 192 is probably quickly obtained though Operations anyway. Without those you don't need it anyway. So all those crafted hilts I've payed for by buying the mats with credits and trading them to the crafter never existed? Really? Even before 3.0 you got mats to get a hilt from the operations storyquest anyway. Edited June 24, 2015 by Aaarrrgon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts