Leaving SWTOR because of no new 'Operation' content

[Shwarzchild]

I

Voice chat is to me an pseudo-argument brought forward by people who are just too lazy to write or to wait or too unskilled in being specific and well pointed in expression what they mean through writing.

Explaining through writing merely takes more time - but people live nowadys in an very fast living culture.

 

Voice chat in PvP is an completely different thing, though.

 

I'm not sure I'm picking up what you're putting down. Let's say we're in say...Shield Squad. There's a bomb timer. It's way more efficient for me to tell you to go grab a bomb than it would be for me to type it out. Or, if you need to utilize the tank swap instead of ignoring it or if you're standing in too much avoidable damage.... If I have to type it to you, you've already lost health, and maybe you died to something and we wiped thus costing us one pull. I wouldn't say it's the lazy way to go at all.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Shwarzchild

[jojobanutz]

I'd probably leave if there are no new operations (yes, plural) or warzones (yes, plural again).

 

If they expect people to hang around and play old operations/flashpoints.. lol.

 

In fact, I'm a little upset they're supposedly increasing the level difficulty of old operations. I could never find a good enough group to go back and do NiM DF/DP for mounts and titles. If they bump those up to level cap, it's even less likely I'll get them.

I, on the other hand, think it's absoluetely great that Bio are upgrading all the old OPs, FPs etc !

 

One reason i never was interested in doing them was that there's no fun in facerolling through overlevelled missions. It will be great to have a large variety of OPs and FPs to choose from, I never had the opportunity to see the 50's for example at the correct level

[onegoldpls]

I hate ops, and the snobs who run them. It is now downright impossible for a new player to get into an op now because 99% of pugs advertising on fleet demand achievements, voice chat, perfect gear, a good "rotation", and knowing every in and out of the fights. Before you say, "do it with your guild", a lot don't even do ops, and many people don't even have a guild due to 12xp. Also not everyone has a gaming pc and gigabit internet to run the ops with any higher that 2 fps.

 

The hardcore raiders are a pain too. They think that whatever applies to HM Revan applies to the rest of the game. Every few threads on the forums usually involves someone from a top guild calling a solo player out on not being perfect, despite having no difficulty with the content he or she does. Sometimes there are the "classists" that trash talk players for picking a so-called "weak" class like sent/mara. Some even go so far as to accuse said players of trolling, saying they deserve to be banned for choosing the class that they did. Same goes for hardcore ranked pvpers.

 

/end rant

 

You are 100% right, I can tell you that from my ten years of mmo experience. But this game is very noob friendly for pve players except this expansion, because they ruined pug's fun with underlurker. Hardcore and pvp communities are always cancerous in every game and not just in swtor. Also only these players usually visit forums, so forums look bad too.

Most of ingame casual guilds and pugs are very noob friendly anyway.

[Torvai]

Also not everyone has a gaming pc and gigabit internet to run the ops with any higher that 2 fps...

 

back at 55 when it was actually somewhat hard. They cleared the fight. Nuff said.

 

And inb4 "healer got carried" crys: No, she didn't. She's one of the best sorc heals I've ever met in this game and cleared all content when it was relevant up until Revan. With fps like that. Next excuse?

Edited June 29, 2015 by Torvai

[onegoldpls]

back at 55 when it was actually somewhat hard. They cleared the fight. Nuff said.

 

And inb4 "healer got carried" crys: No, she didn't. She's one of the best sorc heals I've ever met in this game and cleared all content when it was relevant up until Revan. With fps like that. Next excuse?

 

Lolwut

What is the point of your post?

Who is "she"?

Why should someone care about someone playing slideshow?

Why should others be masochists?

[Torvai]

Lolwut

What is the point of your post?

Who is "she"?

 

And you accuse others of not reading:rolleyes:

Point is, Fidothegran implied you need a good pc to do ops(succesful). Video proofs you don't.

"She" is the healer that recorded the video.

[Shwarzchild]

I'm not really all that sure where to put this thought, but I guess it somewhat fits in here since the topic of pug groups is persistent here. For god knows how long I've trumpeted the whole...well everyone knows my positions since I said them way too much, and interjected far too often.

 

What I've found tremendously interesting post switch to a new server from POT5 is that pug groups are vastly different on a new server. On POT5 I could, with ease, form a ToS pug group and clear it in 45-60 minutes. If I wanted to start a group for old hard mode or nightmare level 55 content, within 20-25 minutes I've have a group formed and we'd be rocking out either poorly or greatly (usually somewhere in between). If I wanted to do a deco run from something like EV/KP/ and to a lesser extent SnV all I had to do was type in gen chat and bam I'd get whispers pretty regularly.

 

In this new server, you can still find a pug group for ToS or Ravagers basically at will which I'd guess is to be expected. However, clearing content is much harder it seems. on POT5 UL would take maybe 4-5 wipes and then a clear, on this new server it consistently takes about 8-10. Getting a group for old hard mode or nightmare content has been virtually impossible which is somewhat shocking since there's a classic operations weekly mission for it.

 

Maybe I just don't know the "lay of the land" as some would call it. And, maybe it's that with more people comes a more diverse set of skill levels. It's entirely possible that POT5 at it's pre cheap transfer level had a more tightly packed under the radar raiding community where we just felt more comfortable pugging since we all knew pretty much what people were capable of (since we were small much like a mom and pop store in a small mid west town or something where everyone is at least familiar with everyone else). Small town to big city syndrome or something.

 

Anyway, just wanted to share that observation somewhere. Just interesting to kind of see how I may not have been on the same page as everyone else in these "complain about difficulty as they relate to pug group" threads.

[Nabradiah]

First: Thanks Torvai for mentioning + compliment - are you on drugs? I didn't know you have lovely moments, too

 

 

Don't mind, this is the order of the day in our guild

 

 

Lolwut

What is the point of your post?

Who is "she"?

Why should someone care about someone playing slideshow?

Why should others be masochists?

 

Aren't MMO Players always a bit masochistic? I mean, every day there is the risk of flames, ninjalooters, bad players in general, intern and extern arguments and other stuff. You cannot control the whole thing, so I think every online player is somehow masochistic.

Some might say: You CAN control on which PC you're playing on, but even thats not fully true. Not every player can afford a new PC on which SWTOR is running (smoothly) - that's some new kind of science anyway

I was in that situation some years ago, and it was simply the wish to raid despite of all complications which occured when playing HM/NiM with 2-15 FPS. Everyone has to decide individually if he or she wants to bear this, but theoretically it's possible. That's everything Torvai wanted to show.

 

And before someone asks: Yes, I - and some others of the group - were slightly overgeared, but it was a new unexperienced guild which had to learn the easiest rules of raiding in general.

I merely was an average player at that time, but had some experience with HM and the NiM Bosses (except Endbosses at this time), so I decided to help them and we went through all the HMs with less or more difficulties.

Now I think I'm far better, but how good exactly, well....I think I let others decide

 

Greetings,

Nabradiah/Kalí

 

P.S.: Sorry for my bad english

Edited June 29, 2015 by Nabradiah

[DawnAskham]

I'm not really all that sure where to put this thought, but I guess it somewhat fits in here since the topic of pug groups is persistent here. For god knows how long I've trumpeted the whole...well everyone knows my positions since I said them way too much, and interjected far too often.

 

What I've found tremendously interesting post switch to a new server from POT5 is that pug groups are vastly different on a new server. On POT5 I could, with ease, form a ToS pug group and clear it in 45-60 minutes. If I wanted to start a group for old hard mode or nightmare level 55 content, within 20-25 minutes I've have a group formed and we'd be rocking out either poorly or greatly (usually somewhere in between). If I wanted to do a deco run from something like EV/KP/ and to a lesser extent SnV all I had to do was type in gen chat and bam I'd get whispers pretty regularly.

 

In this new server, you can still find a pug group for ToS or Ravagers basically at will which I'd guess is to be expected. However, clearing content is much harder it seems. on POT5 UL would take maybe 4-5 wipes and then a clear, on this new server it consistently takes about 8-10. Getting a group for old hard mode or nightmare content has been virtually impossible which is somewhat shocking since there's a classic operations weekly mission for it.

 

Maybe I just don't know the "lay of the land" as some would call it. And, maybe it's that with more people comes a more diverse set of skill levels. It's entirely possible that POT5 at it's pre cheap transfer level had a more tightly packed under the radar raiding community where we just felt more comfortable pugging since we all knew pretty much what people were capable of (since we were small much like a mom and pop store in a small mid west town or something where everyone is at least familiar with everyone else). Small town to big city syndrome or something.

 

Anyway, just wanted to share that observation somewhere. Just interesting to kind of see how I may not have been on the same page as everyone else in these "complain about difficulty as they relate to pug group" threads.

 

On Harbinger in the past two weeks, I've had multiple pug groups fly through ToS with no wipes, including a group that only had six players for the UL fight (one was DC'd and the other outside the room - tank just pulled without an RC).

 

I've also had a group that wiped three times with people failing cross after cross after cross and hitting enrage but those of us alive were able to get him down (and die to all the adds left up), and another group I dropped after a couple of wipes as the leader didn't want to kick anyone with his healer friend doing abysmal healing while dying every pull to rocks, with the dps failing to kill adds before cross, and with people failing every cross.

 

Maybe a larger server just has a higher variability in the level of player skill you find in a pug run. Could also be more players find guilds and run content with their friends / guilds (I need to find a guild if I keep playing this summer lol - sick of pugs).

 

Oh and my original server was something that was rolled into something that eventually got rolled into Pot5 (I rerolled long ago abandoning my first characters). I was so happy when they put up the cheap transfers as I was finally able to move my original character to a non-dead server.

 

Hope you are having fun on a larger server - after playing on high pop servers in several games, I'll never play on a low / dead server again.

Edited June 29, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Shwarzchild]

On Harbinger in the past two weeks, I've had multiple pug groups fly through ToS with no wipes, including a group that only had six players for the UL fight (one was DC'd and the other outside the room - tank just pulled without an RC).

 

I've also had a group that wiped three times with people failing cross after cross after cross and hitting enrage but those of us alive were able to get him down (and die to all the adds left up), and another group I dropped after a couple of wipes as the leader didn't want to kick anyone with his healer friend doing abysmal healing while dying every pull to rocks, with the dps failing to kill adds before cross, and with people failing every cross.

 

Maybe a larger server just has a higher variability in the level of player skill you find in a pug run. Could also be more players find guilds and run content with their friends / guilds (I need to find a guild if I keep playing this summer lol - sick of pugs).

 

Oh and my original server was something that was rolled into something that eventually got rolled into Pot5 (I rerolled long ago abandoning my first characters). I was so happy when they put up the cheap transfers as I was finally able to move my original character to a non-dead server.

 

Hope you are having fun on a larger server - after playing on high pop servers in several games, I'll never play on a low / dead server again.

 

I think you're "in the money" as some would say with a higher pop server. The more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that I just have to adapt to a change. Comparing a low pop experience to a high pop experience is just apples to oranges.

[onegoldpls]

I think you're "in the money" as some would say with a higher pop server. The more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that I just have to adapt to a change. Comparing a low pop experience to a high pop experience is just apples to oranges.

 

That's just a karma. After 10-20 more wipes and groupd disbands on your new server you will regret for not agreeing with me about underlurker in story mode, while I did hardmode in second time this week without any wipes.

Edited June 29, 2015 by onegoldpls

[Shwarzchild]

That's just a karma. After 10-20 more wipes and groupd disbands on your new server you will regret for not agreeing with me about underlurker in story mode, while I did hardmode in second time this week without any wipes.

 

Im not going to agree with you. The fight is fine. Players shouldn't be allowed to skate through everything at end game regardless of a fake label (story mode). If there was another level of difficulty so that we could have story, normal, and hard then I'd agree. But, since we don't I'm going to forever preach balance. And, this is balanced for those players who don't want to move to hard mode but enjoy a challenge, casual player, and super casual who is basically as green as green can get. I'd also support them changing the weekly to downing UL and then weekly done kind of like DF and Corruptor Z or DP and Rappy.

[benficakungfu]

Im not going to agree with you. The fight is fine. Players shouldn't be allowed to skate through everything at end game regardless of a fake label (story mode). If there was another level of difficulty so that we could have story, normal, and hard then I'd agree. But, since we don't I'm going to forever preach balance. And, this is balanced for those players who don't want to move to hard mode but enjoy a challenge, casual player, and super casual who is basically as green as green can get. I'd also support them changing the weekly to downing UL and then weekly done kind of like DF and Corruptor Z or DP and Rappy.

 

No. Weekly on lurker would be stupid weekly should always be on last boss, just because iy happened before ( to the more harm then good in promoting the absence of persistence).

 

Guys seriously i have 4manned both tos and rav and yet i still wipe on 8 mans cuz of this poor decadent self vctimizing mentality of "do wut a say !! Nerph it!!" I mean onegolds folks just ****** unninstal u have braindamage and are hurting pretty much any group of people that wants to ****** think.

[FerkWork]

No. Weekly on lurker would be stupid weekly should always be on last boss, just because iy happened before ( to the more harm then good in promoting the absence of persistence).

 

Guys seriously i have 4manned both tos and rav and yet i still wipe on 8 mans cuz of this poor decadent self vctimizing mentality of "do wut a say !! Nerph it!!" I mean onegolds folks just ****** unninstal u have braindamage and are hurting pretty much any group of people that wants to ****** think.

 

Dude chill those Mammaries lol.

[Shwarzchild]

No. Weekly on lurker would be stupid weekly should always be on last boss, just because iy happened before ( to the more harm then good in promoting the absence of persistence).

 

Guys seriously i have 4manned both tos and rav and yet i still wipe on 8 mans cuz of this poor decadent self vctimizing mentality of "do wut a say !! Nerph it!!" I mean onegolds folks just ****** unninstal u have braindamage and are hurting pretty much any group of people that wants to ****** think.

 

Chill Winston. Chill. This thread has basically been 95 percent saying it's fine and 5 percent saying it's not. Math is in our favor!

[DawnAskham]

Im not going to agree with you. The fight is fine. Players shouldn't be allowed to skate through everything at end game regardless of a fake label (story mode). If there was another level of difficulty so that we could have story, normal, and hard then I'd agree. But, since we don't I'm going to forever preach balance. And, this is balanced for those players who don't want to move to hard mode but enjoy a challenge, casual player, and super casual who is basically as green as green can get. I'd also support them changing the weekly to downing UL and then weekly done kind of like DF and Corruptor Z or DP and Rappy.

 

Devil's advocate here - but what if the seeming decline on Ops content (no NiM and no new Ops on horizon) is partially driven by metrics at Bioware showing fewer and fewer players participating in HM Ops and even new Ops in general / specifically ToS?

 

In other words, might it be possible someone at Bioware is using metrics of participation and success on HM to support / justify a decision to not make a NiM version and / or using similar metrics around participation in the current Operations in general to support / justify a decision to not produce new content at this time?

 

Anyways, I always felt we needed at least three difficulties per tier which should all be released at the same time.

 

An easy difficulty for group finder / casual groups / story runners that is tuned such that even a group of bads could realistically complete it without too much effort or risk.

 

A medium difficulty for competent pugs and casual raiders which may require progression over weeks of time (better players completing faster of course), possibly including the need to gear up from the earlier bosses (linear progression) and spend a reasonable amount of time wiping to learn each of the fights.

 

And a hard difficulty that only the better players would ever complete, mostly after gearing fully though normal mode and spending weeks on progression, with only the very best / those willing to spend 100s of hours beating it shortly after release.

 

Sadly with just two difficulties tuned as they are, the very top end burns out fast and the low end gets frustrated and left behind.

Edited June 30, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Leylea]

BW said some day ... its long, long ago ... maybe last year ... we will never have one operation tier for 1 year again ....

 

And now? The current HC ops were released in dec, 2014 ... thats more than half a year now ... and the next thing on the plan is 3.3 comming next month. There will be no operation or mode, thats clear. The following thing on the plan is probably the expansion, which is announced for Oct 2015, so thats another 3 month. I hardly doupt that there will be any content in between.

... so RiP NiM!

 

And with the new expansion ... they talked alot. about story...about companions, about a whole new feeling of story telling ... "its, all about story this year", WHAT? and operations? and playing with other ppl? Story is important and a lot of ppl claimed this ... but Story is nothing for a group or a raid, i can play that only alone ... but i want to play with other ppl. Ok so i play ur story BW, and then? Its taking me 20 Hours perhaps, and then? Even with an alt, its not keeping me busy for more than 1 month and then i have another 2 month to the next update.

 

And then? Then its 1 year i 'played' the same operation tier ... again ... so RiP credibility ...

 

Ok ok ... to be fair ... its not sure, that there will be no new operation with the expansion ... but its mosty likly now! Its speculation ... yes ... but if they wanna avoid those, they just need to confirm some REAL information about the operation ... about a new operation and NOT about rising lvl of the old ops ... thats just not new ... thats only recycling.

 

So ... why they dont give us any information? Story is cool, companions are cool and i fully understand why SWTOR tries to focus on those content ... because thats the only thing which is unique in this MMO ... and its probably the only thing which is really good in this game.

 

But sacrificing the real MMO (MULTI-player) content for the short pleasure of some story line. This cant work ... MMOs need repeatable content! And this is pvp, operations and fp (perhaps some daylies too), It takes me much more time to gear 2-3 Chars with the current gear than playing the story ... and for me its even much more fun ... but thats another point. Ok .. this would lead to a very different discussion.

 

BTT: No new operation would mean first, another 3 month without new raid/multiplayer content and second ... a full year raiding the same operation ... again ...

 

I DOUPT the main part of the raid community will accept this ... and an MMO without raids is just another version of an coop single player title ... and its absolutly unimportant how good the story will be ... its not a good MMO (any longer) ... and everyone who wanna play a story driven MMO will be hardly dissapointed here.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Leylea

[Shwarzchild]

BW said some day ... its long, long ago ... maybe last year ... we will never have one operation tier for 1 year again ....

 

And now? The current HC ops were released in dec, 2014 ... thats more than half a year now ... and the next thing on the plan is 3.3 comming next month. There will be no operation or mode, thats clear. The following thing on the plan is probably the expansion, which is announced for Oct 2015, so thats another 3 month. I hardly doupt that there will be any content in between.

... so RiP NiM!

 

And with the new expansion ... they talked alot. about story...about companions, about a whole new feeling of story telling ... "its, all about story this year", WHAT? and operations? and playing with other ppl? Story is important and a lot of ppl claimed this ... but Story is nothing for a group or a raid, i can play that only alone ... but i want to play with other ppl. Ok so i play ur story BW, and then? Its taking me 20 Hours perhaps, and then? Even with an alt, its not keeping me busy for more than 1 month and then i have another 2 month to the next update.

 

And then? Then its 1 year i 'played' the same operation tier ... again ... so RiP credibility ...

 

Ok ok ... to be fair ... its not sure, that there will be no new operation with the expansion ... but its mosty likly now! Its speculation ... yes ... but if they wanna avoid those, they just need to confirm some REAL information about the operation ... about a new operation and NOT about rising lvl of the old ops ... thats just not new ... thats only recycling.

 

So ... why they dont give us any information? Story is cool, companions are cool and i fully understand why SWTOR tries to focus on those content ... because thats the only thing which is unique in this MMO ... and its probably the only thing which is really good in this game.

 

But sacrificing the real MMO (MULTI-player) content for the short pleasure of some story line. This cant work ... MMOs need repeatable content! And this is pvp, operations and fp (perhaps some daylies too), It takes me much more time to gear 2-3 Chars with the current gear than playing the story ... and for me its even much more fun ... but thats another point. Ok .. this would lead to a very different discussion.

 

BTT: No new operation would mean first, another 3 month without new raid/multiplayer content and second ... a full year raiding the same operation ... again ...

 

I DOUPT the main part of the raid community will accept this ... and an MMO without raids is just another version of an coop single player title ... and its absolutly unimportant how good the story will be ... its not a good MMO (any longer) ... and everyone who wanna play a story driven MMO will be hardly disappointing here.

 

I'm pretty sure you're 10/10 right? You're in like the 1 percent of the raiding community which is like what 10-20 percent of this game's population at most (hopefully)? So while you may be done the operations from this tier you gotta remember most everyone else isn't and your wait is a big exaggerated comparatively speaking....so quit being good! jk grats on being 10/10. I'd love to be in your shoes.

 

We just have to wait until that blog comes out really. It does none of us any good to speculate since it just makes us all freak out.

[AhsokaTanorules]

I for one am glad to hear about the return to lore and the steering away from raid content. The story mode of this game is what converted me from WoW to this. I came here to play SWTOR, not a dumb downed WoW in outerspace.

 

And is story content truly only going to be 2-3 hours? From what I saw, there were going to be like 10 chapters at launch with at least 10 more released over time. How long is each chapter gonna be? I suppose it would be too much to ask for chapters that were like 2-3 entire planets in length like the classic.

[bdatt]

I for one am glad to hear about the return to lore and the steering away from raid content. The story mode of this game is what converted me from WoW to this. I came here to play SWTOR, not a dumb downed WoW in outerspace.

 

And is story content truly only going to be 2-3 hours? From what I saw, there were going to be like 10 chapters at launch with at least 10 more released over time. How long is each chapter gonna be? I suppose it would be too much to ask for chapters that were like 2-3 entire planets in length like the classic.

 

Most seem to be assuming Ziost sized chapters 2-3 hr first playthrough, then 30-45 repeats for the critical storyline. With 12xXP it would seem they're banking on multiple alt replay.

 

Maybe the majority of players had 22 lvl 60s by new year. I don't know, but my style is to level a character, do MMO stuff with it, then repeat (except on my main that I continually do HM content). I'll get bored fast without new MMO stuff.

[Shwarzchild]

Devil's advocate here - but what if the seeming decline on Ops content (no NiM and no new Ops on horizon) is partially driven by metrics at Bioware showing fewer and fewer players participating in HM Ops and even new Ops in general / specifically ToS?

 

In other words, might it be possible someone at Bioware is using metrics of participation and success on HM to support / justify a decision to not make a NiM version and / or using similar metrics around participation in the current Operations in general to support / justify a decision to not produce new content at this time?

 

Anyways, I always felt we needed at least three difficulties per tier which should all be released at the same time.

 

An easy difficulty for group finder / casual groups / story runners that is tuned such that even a group of bads could realistically complete it without too much effort or risk.

 

A medium difficulty for competent pugs and casual raiders which may require progression over weeks of time (better players completing faster of course), possibly including the need to gear up from the earlier bosses (linear progression) and spend a reasonable amount of time wiping to learn each of the fights.

 

And a hard difficulty that only the better players would ever complete, mostly after gearing fully though normal mode and spending weeks on progression, with only the very best / those willing to spend 100s of hours beating it shortly after release.

 

Sadly with just two difficulties tuned as they are, the very top end burns out fast and the low end gets frustrated and left behind.

 

 

There's no doubt in my mind that they are basing their production schedule on some sort of metrics. No doubt at all. Totally agree with you there. Me personally, I'm just not ready for a new tier of operations. I may want them because new stuff is fun. But, I'm not even close yet to downing Revan or Cortanni. I finally got in a competent progression group on Shadowlands (RIP PoT5..you were so many things) so I'm just now getting started on the Walkers after smacking Bulo upside the head. I just wonder how many groups really are 11/11 which if the majority was at say 9/11 (assuming Monolith HM kill) I could totally see the justification for wanting a new tier of raids. As it is though, I doubt a lot of groups have beaten Monolith on HM as I do doubt that many groups are above maybe 7/10. So I just don't see the true need for new operations yet. Seeing as how this is the first tier I've really tried to progression raid I'm just not ready to see a new set either based on the fact that I've worked pretty hard, and had to put up with some really nasty down times from a low pop server and losing raid team members, just to lose the gear in what I feel is too quick a transition. But, I know a lot of people have had very stable progression groups, so I probably shouldn't take my experience as anything more than an outlier.

 

This does highlight though why Nightmare content is still important and has a place in the game. The groups that have gotten past this content need something as a bridge to the next tier, and Nightmare should be it. I just can't fathom them not doing something with these operations and a nightmare difficulty. I just can't. Granted it's probably more me just being stuck in yesterday or something. The top end players deserve some content to keep them engaged since they definitely add a lot to the game no matter how many have finished the content completely. Without them we don't have starparse, and boss guides. Those are huge for the raiding community.

[meisterjedi]

New Operations on a regular schedule are not only important for the ones that cleared everything already. Every group that raids on a constant basis will eventually get bored of doing the same operations over and over again. It doesn't make much of a difference if that means sm, hm or nim. most groups will eventually hit a wall (or clear everything) and from then on it's a steady repeat every week for months upon months untill new stuff gets released.

 

From my experience every person has a limit of how many times you can do the same thing over and over again, especially if there are no meaningful rewards anymore (which will eventually happen because you have gotten everything in your reach).

So the question in fact is: how long does the average group keep playing the same thing after hitting their personal wall? by the time that wall is hit, there should be at least an anoucement of when new stuff will be released so they have something to hang on to instead of leaving the game.

And I'm pretty sure that 1 year or a minimum of 10 months this time around is in fact way too long for a lot of people.

 

As soon as too many people start leaving the game and their raid groups theese groups often get into big trouble trying to maintain enough people to raid and risk disbanding. Disbanding raidgroups often lead to chain reactions where more people stop playing because they don't want to go through the hassles of finding a new team or their friends left. On top of that the remainders often try to merge with other guilds which as well often leads to a lot of drama.

 

 

The only way you can extend the lifespan of old content would be to make sure that everybody keeps seeing some progress for mulitple months instead of hitting a brick wall (well that wouldn't help the players that cleared everything already, but they are still few and far between). This would need some targetet nerfs at bosses/mechanics that a lot of people have trouble with combined with some meaningful power creap on the players side. unfortuantely there is not happening much in this direction as monolith is too difficult for a lot of groups and gearing up in swtor is pretty fast, yet the itemlvl increases only marginally improve the players power. There has only been 1 wave of nerfs (besides some 16m tuning fixes) that didn't even touch some of the huge wall bosses (Mater&Blaster, Coratanni in hm)

Edited July 2, 2015 by meisterjedi

[Dark_Mithrandir]

New Operations on a regular schedule are not only important for the ones that cleared everything already. Every group that raids on a constant basis will eventually get bored of doing the same operations over and over again. It doesn't make much of a difference if that means sm, hm or nim. most groups will eventually hit a wall (or clear everything) and from then on it's a steady repeat every week for months upon months untill new stuff gets released.

 

From my experience every person has a limit of how many times you can do the same thing over and over again, especially if there are no meaningful rewards anymore (which will eventually happen because you have gotten everything in your reach).

So the question in fact is: how long does the average group keep playing the same thing after hitting their personal wall? by the time that wall is hit, there should be at least an anoucement of when new stuff will be released so they have something to hang on to instead of leaving the game.

And I'm pretty sure that 1 year or a minimum of 10 months this time around is in fact way too long for a lot of people.

 

As soon as too many people start leaving the game and their raid groups theese groups often get into big trouble trying to maintain enough people to raid and risk disbanding. Disbanding raidgroups often lead to chain reactions where more people stop playing because they don't want to go through the hassles of finding a new team or their friends left. On top of that the remainders often try to merge with other guilds which as well often leads to a lot of drama.

Have to agree +1

I think that new ops every 6 months (half year) is pretty much what should be aimed to mantain a healthy raiding community (sm,hm,NiM).

Edited July 2, 2015 by Dark_Mithrandir

[Shwarzchild]

I agree to an extent that there needs to be a constant raid release schedule to keep things fresh. Where I think there's room for debate is the true length of time it takes for someone to hit a wall/ and or the majority to progress to a point where it makes sense to really release another tier of operations. 6 months to me seems a little tight.

 

I say tight, not because of development time or anything but because of other factors player side. So SoR really came out in December (exlude pre order). With the story involved, did the majority of players jump right into operations? I would say no. I would say that for the first month to two months a lot of people were getting their toons through the actual story line content and flashpoints. Then probably around late Jan/ February progression started for the majority. Seeing as how they upped the difficulty on this tier is it realistic to say that 6 months was a viable time frame for the majority of the progression raiding community to get through or at least mostly through the new tier? If we say that six months from the Feb that would land us in August. Is that a time when nightmare should be coming out, or a brand new raid? Considering that the community only has a handful of 10/10 guilds as it stands maybe our time line needs to be longer anyway?

 

The kicker here is the Monolith release. Does that reset the clock?

 

I almost feel like a year (at this specific difficulty level) might be appropriate. Or at least maybe say 8-9 month cycles instead of 6. 6 just seems a little short to me when I look around and see so many still trying to progress.

 

And also: if we're looking just for a break from monotony is the monolith or even KOTFE enough to change the pace? They may not be raids, but they are fresh content that people haven't seen or have seen little of. Are we really being realistic?

Edited July 2, 2015 by Shwarzchild

[mastirkal]

I agree to an extent that there needs to be a constant raid release schedule to keep things fresh. Where I think there's room for debate is the true length of time it takes for someone to hit a wall/ and or the majority to progress to a point where it makes sense to really release another tier of operations. 6 months to me seems a little tight.

 

I say tight, not because of development time or anything but because of other factors player side. So SoR really came out in December (exlude pre order). With the story involved, did the majority of players jump right into operations? I would say no. I would say that for the first month to two months a lot of people were getting their toons through the actual story line content and flashpoints. Then probably around late Jan/ February progression started for the majority. Seeing as how they upped the difficulty on this tier is it realistic to say that 6 months was a viable time frame for the majority of the progression raiding community to get through or at least mostly through the new tier? If we say that six months from the Feb that would land us in August. Is that a time when nightmare should be coming out, or a brand new raid? Considering that the community only has a handful of 10/10 guilds as it stands maybe our time line needs to be longer anyway?

 

The kicker here is the Monolith release. Does that reset the clock?

 

I almost feel like a year (at this specific difficulty level) might be appropriate. Or at least maybe say 8-9 month cycles instead of 6. 6 just seems a little short to me when I look around and see so many still trying to progress.

 

And also: if we're looking just for a break from monotony is the monolith or even KOTFE enough to change the pace? They may not be raids, but they are fresh content that people haven't seen or have seen little of. Are we really being realistic?

 

A year is too long, we've seen plenty of complaints about year long content cycles. WoW has already released three tiers of raids in the last year and it came out after swtor SOR expansion, while we have only been given one. If they wanted to stay even semi competitive they should've released another raid by now. Saying we're being unrealistic is horse ****. Bioware simply isn't giving out content on a pace that would be considered acceptable. It also sounds like this new update isn't even given any new content which is a grave sin for an MMO. I have never heard of a expansion that didn't add another teir of gear and raids. The treadmill is there to give players something to do once they are done with the story. We're simply waiting for what they have to say this month about raids.

Edited July 2, 2015 by mastirkal