Some of the most visible F2P restrictions need to go before Exp launch

[Eillack]

So what exactly makes you think BW would be worried about a player that admittedly spends no money? You just made the subscribers argument valid in that 1 sentence.

 

There is a difference in choosing to spend money on something one might be interested in, and being forced to spend money to add quickbars, unify color, event armors, flashpoints / ops, purple armor, etc.

 

For STO, I honestly have no interest personally for the items being sold there, so I haven't spent anything beyond expansions. Strong-arming and forced nickel & diming has never made SWTOR look good.

 

I would have spent more money here most likely if it wasn't run by EA.

 

So you want SWTOR to lessen the restrictions or remove the completely as you said...

 

"... and there are virtually no restrictions there - definitely no game-breaking / limiting ones. "

 

... and so at this point you would not sub and outside of an expansion you would not spend any money on SWTOR. You want it so you can play SWTOR without spending money.

 

Excepting, surprisingly, Cryptic has been releasing more frequent content on STO, than SWTOR's content releases. Their store has much more variety anyway, but sadly they too use gambling boxes to get the quickest cash.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Eillack

[Upirlikhyi]

True. A lack of tanks (or healers) queueing results in long wait times for PvE content in many game, and throwing more people at it certainly doesn't do anything to resolve that situation. I have no idea whether SWTOR PvE queues suffer more from a population standpoint, or a role balance standpoint, but you do have a point.

 

PvP is a bit of a different story. SWTOR has a good system for dealing with faction imbalances, so it's really a matter of the more people queueing, the less wait time there is. There's little reason F2P players can't have unlimited Warzones with some other form of restriction (reduced rewards, lower priority in a queue, 20 minute cooldown between games, etc). At least they could become dedicated PvPers that way and help ensure that subs have insta-queues. Currently, a F2P player who has no interest in PvE probably isn't going to bother keeping the game installed for 5 WZ per week. The current system just doesn't benefit anyone there.

 

I can agree with that. Honestly right now I think PVE queue times are hindered by the 12x boost (while I love it) with the boost active there is no incentive to do FP's. And the ease at which we get comms and comm gear/mods also factors into this

[Upirlikhyi]

Actually those restrictions made me not want to resub, only reason I'm temporarily subbed now, is to get the new companion, then unsubbing until late October for the swoop.

 

SWTOR has way too restrictive F2P / Preferred options. I mean, hell, STO has been F2P for awhile, and there are virtually no restrictions there - definitely no game-breaking / limiting ones.

 

I may have misunderstood what I read but don't you have to stay subbed and get all the new rewards to quallify for everything? Like I said I may have misunderstood it but that was what I took out of it

[myrdinn]

I may have misunderstood what I read but don't you have to stay subbed and get all the new rewards to quallify for everything? Like I said I may have misunderstood it but that was what I took out of it

 

That particular poster, if I summarize correctly, is subbing exactly twice to get two of the four rewards. So, no, they aren't trying to qualify for everything, just the two things they want.

By inference, they are skipping the duster and gun.

[Upirlikhyi]

That particular poster, if I summarize correctly, is subbing exactly twice to get two of the four rewards. So, no, they aren't trying to qualify for everything, just the two things they want.

By inference, they are skipping the duster and gun.

 

Yeah I just went back and re-read it and to qualify for early access you have to get all 4 rewards. I read it late last night and misunderstood it

 

To qualify for the Early Access Bonus, you must have qualified for each of the four rewards by being a subscriber on each of the 4 listed reward dates. Once you qualify you may enter and play Knights of the Fallen Empire on October 20, 2015, seven (7) days prior to live launch on October 27, 2015.

 

thanks for clarifing it

[Bobs_YourUncle]

Actually those restrictions made me not want to resub, only reason I'm temporarily subbed now, is to get the new companion, then unsubbing until late October for the swoop.

 

SWTOR has way too restrictive F2P / Preferred options. I mean, hell, STO has been F2P for awhile, and there are virtually no restrictions there - definitely no game-breaking / limiting ones.

 

Seems to be a conflicting statement. The F2P is too restrictive for you, but you opt to remain playing unsubbed except to get a reward or two and presumably the expansion meaning you intend to continue playing even longer with the "over restrictive" limitations. Sounds like you are a good customer. F2P restrictions didn't run you off and you keep periodically spending and playing. If anything your situation, makes the case that the f2p model is working fine.

[Sardorim]

So you want SWTOR to lessen the restrictions or remove the completely as you said...

 

"... and there are virtually no restrictions there - definitely no game-breaking / limiting ones. "

 

... and so at this point you would not sub and outside of an expansion you would not spend any money on SWTOR. You want it so you can play SWTOR without spending money.

 

Going forward the expansions seem to be sub exclusive so what us your point exactly? If you want to play current content you must sub. This many of the restrictions are pointless.

[Sardorim]

Ill take C for 500 Alex...

 

SWTOR is pretty much unplayable with the F2P model, witch relies on cosmetics for its profits. Its an obtrusive and extremely limited experience. No amount of sugarcoating can change that. When The Change happened, it was almost unanimously agreed (by critics and gamers alike), that it was a horribly implemented model. It punishes F2P and doesn't particular reward subs.

 

Lets dismiss customization features like Unify and No Head, you are paying nothing after all. There are still Limited QuickSlots(UHG), extremely limiting chat, mail functions, very low credit cap ( especially considering price inflation, that Bioware introduced with the CM), no permanent escrow unlock, critically reduced exp gains (F2P don't get enough, Subs get way too much) and drops, that are useless. OH right limited revives and probes, so you can inconvenience other as well as yourself, alienating F2P even further. Those are hardly cosmetics, they are gameplay.

 

Most people couldn't stand it and either subbed (Star Wars/ KOTOR fans), or just dropped permanently. ( MMO gamers, that moved to less draconian F2P games) Every time there is a new SWTOR news related article on gaming sites, the discussion runs something like this:

 

"- Oh i heard it was F2P now, should i try it?

-Dont bother its horrible."

 

Refereed doesn't really fix the major offenders and friends bundle only fixes the cosmetics. The way i see it, the game doesn't know, what it wants to be.

 

1)F2P should drop all none-FP/ PVP gameplay restrictions, or at least heavily relax them. Instead, limit the playable races and classes. Like say, you can only play 2 Rep and 2 Empire classes up to lvl 50. Profit primarily from cosmetic shop, brand new expansion-exclusive content and potential class re-playability. New F2Players wont access all the available content, but the wont get gameplay, that constantly gets in the way of story enjoyment.

 

2)If F2P is just a taste, before you sub. Then subs need their value increased. What am i paying a Sub for, if things like new races are hostaged behind a pay wall. Cosmetic items and F2P unlocks are fine, but playable races? All other races are available, why are these so special? Cause they are new?

 

Its fine to pay for mayor content expansions, but why are you nickel and dimming me, if im a sub? And speaking of the Cartel market, why be stingy with 500 cartel coins for 15 bucks sub? I get that cartel coins have a monetary value, but it wouldn't really be a problem, if new customizations ( new eyes, skin, hair colors and hairstyles models) were free for subs. But they are not!

 

Why subs need to pay for any none-expansion content, like armors, companion looks and mounts is beyond me. But since WOW and half the market does it , i guess that argument is a lost cause. Guess i'm just Old School, I though the point of subs was, that i'm paying for my server mileage and the dev team's time after release, but now i'm paying for only part of that time. (CM)

 

I guess, Bioware is greedy, or desperate, as neither model alone seems like enough profit. They were dipping into both cookie jars, making profits from cosmetics and customization options (, but not giving the game for free, aka F2P model ) and subs and expansions from the exact same client, until recently. Either way, i think all three SWTOR models require value increases.

F2P needs to feel like its encouraging to sub, not discouraging to play. Not gimping player rewards and capabilities , but enticing you with extra expansions, more races and classes. And there needs to be tiers of preferred status, that differentiate - 5 bucks preferred / former long time sub that bought the CE -preferred and anything in between.

If you read this far, i thank you for your time.

 

Well said, the restrictions are ridiculous abd greatly hinder gameplay as well as making 1-50 a huge chore for f2p players. It's easy for them to decide to quit than sticking around and subbing in the future.

[Transcendent]

Color Unify, Hide helmet. Thes do nothing but off-put new F2P players. Clearly your goal is to keep them playing till they reach they point they feel they HAVE to sub (operations or Fallen Empire chapters). That's effective, but not if they drop from the game shortly after starting with nonsensical ugly & off-putting restrictions like unifying the colors/hiding helmet.

 

Sure, they can have that. In return they should be story capped at Chapter 2, and level capped at 35.

 

If the story / classes / balance / content is as good as BioWare seem to think it is, they should get a healthier conversion rate than the current model where F2P players can complete all of the stories for free.

[MajorMacMillan]

I leveld up to lvl 50 without any subsciption or Preffered status. I paid nothing but received a lot: interesting class story, unforgettable game experience(that was my first MMO), sort of a sequel to my all-time favourite KOTOR 1. I absolutely enjoed the game as a F2P and then subscribed not only to be able to purchase some high-value goods from GTN but to support developer as well. It is possible to enjoy a game as F2P, if you are not a spoiled kid and understand that you get a lot of good stuff for nothing.

[RAVM]

The quickbar limitations are really pathetic IMO. Is it still 2 quickbars for free-to-play and 4 for preferred? I find 4 very annoying and somewhat limiting, but 2 would be unplayable. It goes far beyond being just a cosmetic issue or minor inconvenience and affects playability. Are there any other free MMOs with such a ridiculous restriction? Edited July 30, 2015 by RAVM

[DarthMaulUK]

If anyone wants to see how F2P SHOULD be done - look at ESO and Wildstar. Not locking content behind paywalls, creates a thriving community and not a divided one.

[Atalantia]

While I agree some of the restrictions are bit over the top. if they lesson the restrictions then they will have to compensate the Subscribers in another way:

 

Tera uses

100% XP boost

100% Gold boost on quest turn ins

100% Rep bonuses

A Five location (U must save the location) travel portal to anywhere in the game

A travel atlas to any city in the game

A Instance reset scroll

Double instance entry

A subscriber mount

and 6 more character slots F2P= 2 Sub=8

 

OH and Death with the first DLC Imerial City and every DLC afterwards you either buy it or dont get it. If you're a sub yes you get it for free, however unlike DCUO where if u are subbed when the DLC comes out you have access forever, ESO you unsub the content and skill lines will not be usable

 

The new skill lines in the DLC will not be usable buy F2P

Edited July 30, 2015 by Atalantia

[Upirlikhyi]

If anyone wants to see how F2P SHOULD be done - look at ESO and Wildstar. Not locking content behind paywalls, creates a thriving community and not a divided one.

 

I wouldn't say ESO and Wildstar are thriving...but I haven't seen all the numbers....

 

But imho if everything is open to people who don't pay what are the advantages of paying? If you are going to offer both then there has to be advantages to subbing over being a f2p player...just my thoughts

 

Some of the restrictions should be eased but there still should be a clear cut advantage for being a sub

[DocCollo]

Population numbers > Your argument.

Furthermore, notice no Sub Numbers listed and you cannot get around the fact that most areas are deserted. What SWTOR has is whales, not a healthy stream.

 

Nothing to back up your fabrications? Didnt think so.

[Shirx]

Too bad you don't love it enough to want the game to succeed.

 

I'm sorry I'm a grown man -- I deal with reality. Most people once they hit a certain age learn to accept such things in life like -- nothing is forever. HOWEVER, because my comment said "if it fails it fails" that does not mean I'd be happy. That does not mean I want it to happen.

 

Finally apparently you didn't even skim my other points because it already spoke of my whole logic of F2P and who's really responsible for the success or failure of F2P --- HINT: its not the players. If you think so...well you are wrong.

 

The job of the customer in ANY business is not to make the business succeed. Its not their responsibility. My "job" as the customer for a video game isn't to make the game succeed...its to have fun and enjoy the game. That's my role.

 

Bioware's job is to make the customer WANT to play their game ....so much so that they pay to play it.

 

Also since I'm replying to you now anyway....I read your weak replies to other people and I see you defending the need for f2p heavily so ....I stand by my core belief on F2P systems.....Anyone that complains about FREE is outside their mind. (that's the polite way to put it).

 

I think EVERY single person in this entire thread whining that F2P needs more , are all nuts. Its FREE. Yes it sounds like a easy and cliche answer but in this case its a true answer "'what you get is what you pay for".

[Sardorim]

Well, I'm NOT Free so I'm very much entitled to point out that the current f2p system is a joke and harms the game a great deal. The fact that you can't see that is very sad indeed.

 

The restrictions need to be lifted somewhat for f2p AND preferred if the game is to continue for years on or it will die as more and more competition ramps up. Heck, WoW is even taking blows for bad decisions, greed and ignoring valid player feedback.

 

Sure, they can have that. In return they should be story capped at Chapter 2, and level capped at 35.

 

If the story / classes / balance / content is as good as BioWare seem to think it is, they should get a healthier conversion rate than the current model where F2P players can complete all of the stories for free.

 

You really want the game to die, don't you?

 

Making f2pers NOT feel welcomed is bad for business, it's that simple. Being spiteful over it doesn't change the facts.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Sardorim

[DocCollo]

I leveld up to lvl 50 without any subsciption or Preffered status. I paid nothing but received a lot: interesting class story, unforgettable game experience(that was my first MMO), sort of a sequel to my all-time favourite KOTOR 1. I absolutely enjoed the game as a F2P and then subscribed not only to be able to purchase some high-value goods from GTN but to support developer as well. It is possible to enjoy a game as F2P, if you are not a spoiled kid and understand that you get a lot of good stuff for nothing.

 

^ This guy. This guy gets it.

[Sardorim]

Nothing to back up your fabrications? Didnt think so.

 

Guess you don't log in often or queue for anything.

 

I leveld up to lvl 50 without any subsciption or Preffered status. I paid nothing but received a lot: interesting class story, unforgettable game experience(that was my first MMO), sort of a sequel to my all-time favourite KOTOR 1. I absolutely enjoed the game as a F2P and then subscribed not only to be able to purchase some high-value goods from GTN but to support developer as well. It is possible to enjoy a game as F2P, if you are not a spoiled kid and understand that you get a lot of good stuff for nothing.

 

Yes, hurl insults at other players. That'll definitely get them to stay and sub.

 

There's no point in 1-50 if most will quit before even leaving the first planet after the Capital World.

 

My brother lasted somewhat longer, he got to Hoth than quit. Even gave him 7 free days (For 12x EXP) yet he just wasn't interested anymore as f2p left a bad taste in his mouth that he would rather play other MMOs.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Sardorim

[DocCollo]

Guess you don't log in often or queue for anything.

 

Thats right, attack the person and not address the facts. Oh wait, you cant cause you still dont have anything but anecdotes.

[Kingsbount]

I love when people mention queue times in F2P vs Sub argue...

Seriously? Queue time is actually some sort of indication for you?

Long queue times means only one thing - stop making DPS and start playing as tanks and healers. Yep. We have a lack of them.

And no. Its doesn't count as "sign of death" for the game. It means people are lame in taking responsibility.

[Rafaman]

I love when people mention queue times in F2P vs Sub argue...

Seriously? Queue time is actually some sort of indication for you?

Long queue times means only one thing - stop making DPS and start playing as tanks and healers. Yep. We have a lack of them.

And no. Its doesn't count as "sign of death" for the game. It means people are lame in taking responsibility.

 

Very true. The balance is what hurts the PvE queue times more than anything.

[SuspectDown]

F2P restrictions need to be severe. They should really only be effective in giving someone an idea if they like the game enough to sub.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

I love when people mention queue times in F2P vs Sub argue...

Seriously? Queue time is actually some sort of indication for you?

Long queue times means only one thing - stop making DPS and start playing as tanks and healers. Yep. We have a lack of them.

And no. Its doesn't count as "sign of death" for the game. It means people are lame in taking responsibility.

 

Or it means you are on a pvp server which are suffering in population due to pvp issues, and need to move to a pve server which are thriving. But the guy ignores that or his role, or his play time might be in a low population time for his server. He's beyond arguing with. Everyone has shot down his suppositions and he just keeps repeating the same trumped up stuff with no evidence beyond the two guys he knows that quit the game.

[KinAster]

Hide head slot can be fixed by playing a Twi'lek or Togruta. As for Unify color? Nah, if they removed that what would BioWare give to those who already spent the cartel coins to unlock it?

 

One of the biggest restrictions that should be looked at is chat. In a new MMO you're going to have multiple questions about the game and what to do, but jokes on you, you can't chat till level 10, but good luck getting there with only our terrible tutorial to help you. I can get the restriction to prevent gold spammers from starting at level 1, but it's not like BioWare is doing anything about them now anyway?

 

But anyway, hide head slot and unify color would be stupid, chat should be what's looked at, for both F2P and Pref status. I think they should give a little more to Preferred tbd, unlimited unranked war zones with 3-5 ranked ques a week, 1-2 Ops a week. Everything else can stay the same.