"You've Got Bad Gear....."

[power-alex]

50,1k hp = not undergeared anymore.

 

I've got a fully augmented 14 piece set of token gear except armoring in braces and hilt in offhand, which are 198 - and I still have only 498xx hp - i'm a noob

[DawnAskham]

I've got a fully augmented 14 piece set of token gear except armoring in braces and hilt in offhand, which are 198 - and I still have only 498xx hp - i'm a noob

 

Unbuffed?

 

My unbuffed sorc sits just over 50K, and has all 198 token / low endurance mods / enhancements, though has a 192 hilt and one 192 set armoring - but does have most datacrons including Makeb endurance +10.

[fire-breath]

I've got a fully augmented 14 piece set of token gear except armoring in braces and hilt in offhand, which are 198 - and I still have only 498xx hp - i'm a noob

 

If you are sometimes causing a wipe by dieing at high hitting attacks like groundburst / lurker cross / bulo lifters+barrel throw AND you have (had) the ability to buy 198 commendation mods than I fear you are yes.

Or maybe just someone who was unaware that he wasn't minmaxed correctly.

 

1 extra freebe point. Try getting the 192 chestpiece since thats most likely the last 198 token you will replace. This gives you a longer timeperiod with 3x ultimate commed armorings.

[CheaterLL]

Sigh. Once again .......

commed 198 token mods = 127 mainstat + 52 power

192 token mods = 97 mainstat + 82 power

 

Step 1a

Current view on augments is that the difference between power and mainstats augments is really small.

Step 1b

This means that 1 mainstat rougly equals 1 power.

Step 1c

This means you can see power and mainstat as a total stat when comparing items

 

Step 2

198 mods: 127 + 52 = 179 total stats

192 mods: 97 + 82 = 179 totals stats

 

WOOOOOOT Yes its the same value. Meaning ..... during an ops you will NOT, I repeat NOT notice the difference between 14x 198 mods or 14x 192 mods.

 

This means 192 mods are as crap as 198 mods are

But ...........

each 198 mod has 16 extra endurence (74 vs 90). This rougly turns into 160 HP per mod when excluding endurence buffs from utility and/or discipline paths. When comparing 14x 198 mods vs 14x 192 mods you will get 2.240 HP for no loss in damage or healing.

 

So in conclusion:

Do you want to have ~5k DPS and 50k HP or do you want to have ~5k DPS and 52k HP? dps number is randomly picked

 

 

Ohw and in case there is a smarta## saying that even a tiny upgrade in DPS should be preferred.

Go play HM/NiM progression where people are making mistakes when learning fights.

A little story about my gunslinger.

Normal HP levels were back than around 35k HP. My guild was at that time progressing @corruptor zero HM. Since we did had enough dps I decided to use a fortitude stim for extra survivability and guess what happend?

I stayed to long in the red circle. After I got punished by corruptor zero's laser my 40k HP was down to 200 HP. Jip, 400 HP. Would have been dead without the endurence.

 

TL;DR

endurence saved my life AND a wipe.

 

Sigh. Once again .......

 

Do this calculation with enhancements.

[Halinalle]

That elite comm grind though, is gonna take a while

 

Yes. It takes very long. Armorings are locked to certain piece (you can't put wrist armoring to headgear etc.).

 

I've got a fully augmented 14 piece set of token gear except armoring in braces and hilt in offhand, which are 198 - and I still have only 498xx hp - i'm a noob

 

Now I can queue for 55HMs without fear. I still can't queue for 60HMs/ops because I'm still undergeared for those.

I'm not sure if I should stop queuing for 55HMs because today group finder locked me in and didn't let me leave. I panicked.

 

Funny thing is 55k tank must put Guard on me to hold aggro.

Do you know what's even funnier? Gunnery.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Halinalle

[Memo-]

1 extra freebe point. Try getting the 192 chestpiece since thats most likely the last 198 token you will replace. This gives you a longer timeperiod with 3x ultimate commed armorings.

 

If we go by this logic, then you should have the one non-setbonus armoring in the chestpiece, no?

[Memo-]

Sigh. Once again .......

 

Do this calculation with enhancements.

 

He knows, he's specifically talking mods.

[FerkWork]

Sigh. Once again .......

commed 198 token mods = 127 mainstat + 52 power

192 token mods = 97 mainstat + 82 power

 

Step 1a

Current view on augments is that the difference between power and mainstats augments is really small.

Step 1b

This means that 1 mainstat rougly equals 1 power.

Step 1c

This means you can see power and mainstat as a total stat when comparing items

 

Step 2

198 mods: 127 + 52 = 179 total stats

192 mods: 97 + 82 = 179 totals stats

 

WOOOOOOT Yes its the same value. Meaning ..... during an ops you will NOT, I repeat NOT notice the difference between 14x 198 mods or 14x 192 mods.

 

This means 192 mods are as crap as 198 mods are

But ...........

each 198 mod has 16 extra endurence (74 vs 90). This rougly turns into 160 HP per mod when excluding endurence buffs from utility and/or discipline paths. When comparing 14x 198 mods vs 14x 192 mods you will get 2.240 HP for no loss in damage or healing.

 

So in conclusion:

Do you want to have ~5k DPS and 50k HP or do you want to have ~5k DPS and 52k HP? dps number is randomly picked

 

 

Ohw and in case there is a smarta## saying that even a tiny upgrade in DPS should be preferred.

Go play HM/NiM progression where people are making mistakes when learning fights.

A little story about my gunslinger.

Normal HP levels were back than around 35k HP. My guild was at that time progressing @corruptor zero HM. Since we did had enough dps I decided to use a fortitude stim for extra survivability and guess what happend?

I stayed to long in the red circle. After I got punished by corruptor zero's laser my 40k HP was down to 200 HP. Jip, 400 HP. Would have been dead without the endurence.

 

TL;DR

endurence saved my life AND a wipe.

 

Or you can get 198 unlettered mods and do more dps

[DawnAskham]

If you are sometimes causing a wipe by dieing at high hitting attacks like groundburst / lurker cross / bulo lifters+barrel throw AND you have (had) the ability to buy 198 commendation mods than I fear you are yes.

Or maybe just someone who was unaware that he wasn't minmaxed correctly.

 

1 extra freebe point. Try getting the 192 chestpiece since thats most likely the last 198 token you will replace. This gives you a longer timeperiod with 3x ultimate commed armorings.

 

If you are just running story mode, it won't matter (don't stand in crap / use dcds). The fights have been nerfed since launch, which many of us completed pre-nerf back in December wearing 180 / 186 gear from level 55.

 

If you really need the extra endurance from 198 mods over token 192 to survive SM, you have much larger problems than gearing.

 

If you are running HM, you'll have 198 non-lettered / low endurance mods to use. No dps or healer is going to use the lettered high endurance comm mods over non-lettered token mods (though my tank uses the comm B mods).

 

If you love stacking endurance and farming old content for comms, and can't figure out how to move out of giant red circles before getting hit, then sure, grind away at old content to buy comm gear.

 

Otherwise, I would not bother to grind for comms if I were running Ops regularly just to replace token 192 mods with high endurance 198 mods for a few extra hit points.

 

For me, I haven't used anything from the comms vendors except OH hilt / armoring, B mods for my tank, and in a few rare cases, swapped to a lettered comm mod to balance my overall stats.

 

tl:dr bads need extra endurance, good players do not

Edited June 25, 2015 by DawnAskham

[fire-breath]

Sigh. Once again .......

 

Do this calculation with enhancements.

 

I actually have calculated enhancements in the past to check if it was worthwhile to get them but quickly found out that those are a loss. But like stated above I specifically stated mods, not the armorings or enhancements.

 

If we go by this logic, then you should have the one non-setbonus armoring in the chestpiece, no?

Yes, and crud I see what you mean lol. Not sure what I was thinking there. Guess it was the nerdrush of the earlier post.

 

My bad, you are correct at that one. 198 ultimate token armoring should be the chestpiece. My appologies there

 

Or you can get 198 unlettered mods and do more dps

Yes, but you can also go kill monolith HM for even more dps, or killing nightmare pilgrim

What I mean, I was rebuting the arguement that ultimate commed gear is crap in comparison to 192 token gear.

 

If you are just running story mode, it won't matter (don't stand in crap / use dcds). The fights have been nerfed since launch, which many of us completed pre-nerf back in December wearing 180 / 186 gear from level 55.

I was talking hardmode progression

 

If you really need the extra endurance from 198 mods over token 192 to survive SM, you have much larger problems than gearing.

Yes, in hardmode progression you have a very big issue. The one of making mistakes because content is new. No person is infalable and I can't imagine you to never make a mistake (or unlucky lag).

 

If you are running HM, you'll have 198 non-lettered / low endurance mods to use. No dps or healer is going to use the lettered high endurance comm mods over non-lettered token mods (though my tank uses the comm B mods).

Alex was saying he was using 192 non-lettered mods. Of course any dps or healer should swap to 198 token mods asap. The priority should be 204 (from the monolith weapon) > 198 token > 198 comms > 192 token when looking at mods.

 

If you love stacking endurance and farming old content for comms, and can't figure out how to move out of giant red circles before getting hit, then sure, grind away at old content to buy comm gear.

 

So you never make any mistakes when tackling new highend content? You do know zorz their tanks were gearing high endurence because it left room for mistakes? Not saying if they are correct but they were doing it because of possible MISTAKES

 

Otherwise, I would not bother to grind for comms if I were running Ops regularly just to replace token 192 mods with high endurance 198 mods

If you run HM progression than you will have enough ultimate comms quite fast. Also the bosses will drop high endurence 198 mods. Trust me, you dont need to grind ....

 

for a few extra hit points.

For me, I haven't used anything from the comms vendors except OH hilt / armoring, B mods for my tank, and in a few rare cases, swapped to a lettered comm mod to balance my overall stats.

And yet you apparently are taking the time to balance your overall stats? For a tiny change. Again. Feel free not to make the effort for a tiny change but don't call it crap because the change is small. Min maxing is all about small

 

For me, I haven't used anything from the comms vendors except OH hilt / armoring,

Than my friend, you are gimping yourself. Its a choice you can make but again, calling commsgear crap is far out of line.

 

tl:dr bads need extra endurance, good players do not

Wrong. Unless you call every progression guild in game bads. I have run with highend well know progression guilds who were making mistakes. Zorz themselves were admitting that they were making mistakes.

Who are you to call everyone bad when they make a mistake?

Edited June 25, 2015 by fire-breath

[DawnAskham]

I actually have calculated enhancements in the past to check if it was worthwhile to get them but quickly found out that those are a loss. But like stated above I specifically stated mods, not the armorings or enhancements.

 

 

Yes, and crud I see what you mean lol. Not sure what I was thinking there. Guess it was the nerdrush of the earlier post.

 

My bad, you are correct at that one. 198 ultimate token armoring should be the chestpiece. My appologies there

 

 

Yes, but you can also go kill monolith HM for even more dps, or killing nightmare pilgrim

What I mean, I was rebuting the arguement that ultimate commed gear is crap in comparison to 192 token gear.

 

 

I was talking hardmode progression

 

 

Yes, in hardmode progression you have a very big issue. The one of making mistakes because content is new. No person is infalable and I can't imagine you to never make a mistake (or unlucky lag).

 

 

Alex was saying he was using 192 non-lettered mods. Of course any dps or healer should swap to 198 token mods asap. The priority should be 204 (from the monolith weapon) > 198 token > 198 comms > 192 token when looking at mods.

 

 

 

So you never make any mistakes when tackling new highend content? You do know zorz their tanks were gearing high endurence because it left room for mistakes? Not saying if they are correct but they were doing it because of possible MISTAKES

 

 

If you run HM progression than you will have enough ultimate comms quite fast. Also the bosses will drop high endurence 198 mods. Trust me, you dont need to grind ....

 

 

 

And yet you apparently are taking the time to balance your overall stats? For a tiny change. Again. Feel free not to make the effort for a tiny change but don't call it crap because the change is small. Min maxing is all about small

 

 

Than my friend, you are gimping yourself. Its a choice you can make but again, calling commsgear crap is far out of line.

 

 

Wrong. Unless you call every progression guild in game bads. I have run with highend well know progression guilds who were making mistakes. Zorz themselves were admitting that they were making mistakes.

Who are you to call everyone bad when they make a mistake?

 

Everyone makes mistakes - though most mistakes in SoR kill you, and a few extra HP at the expense of dps or healing won't make a lot of difference.

 

And my point was a lot of your post came off as though players doing progression of any difficulty should be grinding out comms for endurance heavy mods ripped from commendation gear, which is something I don't agree with at all.

 

At least you agree the enhancements in comm gear are crap, though you seem to suggest one should still swap HM optimized 198 mods for endurance heavy 198 comm mods, which again is something I don't agree with at all.

 

If you are doing SM, most 198 comm gear is not an upgrade (armoring isn't over set pieces, mods are a push, and enhancements are highly inferior). Nothing wrong with using comms gained doing whatever contnt you enjoy to fill in where the parts are better, but not something I'd spend extra time grinding out comms each week.

 

If you are doing HM, the gear which drops in the Operation has optimized (low endurance) mods and enhancements, and thus even less comm gear is viable.

 

Again, nothing wrong with using comms gained doing whatever content you enjoy to fill in where parts are better, but outside OH armoring and ripping B mods for tanks, I can't think of anything useful for an HM player in comms gear (which is probably why I never ran a single HM FP or other group content outside of Ops until I rolled a character on a new server - I had capped comms just running HM Ops and yet nothing to buy).

Edited June 25, 2015 by DawnAskham

[Memo-]

though you seem to suggest one should still swap HM optimized 198 mods for endurance heavy 198 comm mods, which again is something I don't agree with at all.

 

He didn't say that.

 

All he's trying to convey is: since the dps/healing potential between a 198A and 192 mod is minimal, you can very well swap your 192's for 198A if you come by them, and you should, since there's really not much to do with Ultimate commendations. Token 192 enhancements are still better than 198 commendation ones, hell, even 186 crafted ones would surpass them.

[fire-breath]

He didn't say that.

 

All he's trying to convey is: since the dps/healing potential between a 198A and 192 mod is minimal, you can very well swap your 192's for 198A if you come by them, and you should, since there's really not much to do with Ultimate commendations. Token 192 enhancements are still better than 198 commendation ones, hell, even 186 crafted ones would surpass them.

 

Memo, may I hire you as my personal writer? In a nuttshell, what you are describing is exactly what I was saying

Edited June 26, 2015 by fire-breath

[LeonoraOmega]

From what everyone is saying on this thread it seems impossible to start to get geared at all, some HM flashpoints can be soloed at level 60, I can at least solo all the level 50 ones due to the obvious level difference, but if the better gear in pve is going to come from the token vendors....

am I right in thinking you only get tokens from like operations/story mode ops?

real confused now

[CheaterLL]

From what everyone is saying on this thread it seems impossible to start to get geared at all, some HM flashpoints can be soloed at level 60, I can at least solo all the level 50 ones due to the obvious level difference, but if the better gear in pve is going to come from the token vendors....

am I right in thinking you only get tokens from like operations/story mode ops?

real confused now

 

Level 60 HM Flashpoints can be done in 172 gear.

Level 60 SM Operations can be done in 180 gear.

You get a free set of 190 on Ziost, fill up the rest with 186 gear for basic comms, buy some crafted relics and mainhand hilt (178 or 186, depending on money), then put some augments on your gear (again, 178 or 186) and you're overgeared for SM 60 ops.

 

Better gear is just for allowing mistakes/making up for lack of skill.

[thewitchdoctor]

From what everyone is saying on this thread it seems impossible to start to get geared at all, some HM flashpoints can be soloed at level 60, I can at least solo all the level 50 ones due to the obvious level difference, but if the better gear in pve is going to come from the token vendors....

am I right in thinking you only get tokens from like operations/story mode ops?

real confused now

 

The 'problem' if you will is between what the FPs really require and what the herd mentality in most PUGs demand.

 

As the poster above pointed out, the required gear level for FPs is quite low. And with a modicum of skill and situational awareness, that is all you need.

 

But as the 600+ page thread of Weirdos You Meet in Group Finder shows us, those are two things sorely lacking in the average PUG. So, yeah, as Cheater mentioned, PUGs start demanding you be overgeared by an insane margin to make up for that by trying to faceroll the content. Wanting you to be in 192 gear, which is what the FP rewards, is the highlight of idiocy, but, well, that's the PUGLife.

 

Anyways, to further answer you beyond what Cheater wrote:

 

186 is bought with Basic comms;

190 is rewarded by doing the Ziost missions/dailies;

192 is bought with Elite comms; or

192 gear drops in SM operations; and

192 Tokens are won in SM operations; while

198 is bought with Ultimate comms; and

198 gear drops in HM operations; and

198 Tokens are won in HM operations.

 

If you only do HM FPs and open-world PVE, you will be just fine in comm-bought gear. Please note that no matter where you get your gear from, to get the best optimisation of stats you will need to swap around mods and enhancements.

Edited June 26, 2015 by thewitchdoctor

[UberSamoyed]

Three classifications of players in HM FP's:

 

1. Ones who carry

2. Ones who contribute

3. Ones who are carried

 

Before joining a progression guild and being somewhat new to MMO's, I ran daily HM's to grind gear. My experiences from this period generated a breakdown of the three classes as 10%/60%/30%. Lately, those ratios have slid further from the middle to something like 20%/40%/40%. Server transfers and new interest from the expansion might change these ratios even further. Regardless, how you gear and how familiar you are with the mechanics of each FP are in direct correlation to one another.

 

I doubt anyone who carries or contributes cares much about gearing questions in HM's. So...the question and answer primarily resides with those not familiar with the mechanics and/or not in gear state that makes up for mistakes. Familiarity will obviously weight requirements down as they progress. But, if one needs a current all-encompassing answer to how geared is enough to keep the gear hawks at bay, I would say 190 with some augs is safe. At least, the common gear hawk comment is "you can get easy 190 gear from Ziost".

 

If you want to avoid that conversation, go get it.

 

But it's not really that simple. Tanks need to know mechanics. Healers need to understand their abilities. There are added responsibilities for both roles. DPS can get away with a lot, except in DPS checks like the Blood Hunt first boss. I guess my point is that if you get your feathers ruffled by gear hawks, tanking and healing may not be the role for you until you get familiar and/or geared. Percentage-wise, the path of least resistance as "the carried" is as DPS.

 

Let me be clear, I'm not advising one to avoid the role you want to be. But, if you're a tank or healer, you better develop a thick skin. That's just life in SWTOR. Shoot, there are a few players who are just elitist, never happy, and always condescending. Learn to ignore them...both while you're in the group and afterwards by clicking "ignore."

 

Enjoy the game and don't let others take that away from you or discourage you from learning/grinding/gearing. Easier said than done...but if one lesson was apparent after my HM grinding was complete, it was this. If you are doing your best with the time you have to spend, then you're alright in my book.

[Halinalle]

mainhand hilt (178 or 186, depending on money)

 

You get 178 mainhand from last quest before ToS/daily choice on Yavin.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Halinalle

[CheaterLL]

You get 178 mainhand from last quest before ToS/daily choice on Yavin.

 

Yeah the 178 was for the relics, for mainhand you have the choice of Yavin or 186 GTN.

[LeonoraOmega]

Three classifications of players in HM FP's:

 

1. Ones who carry

2. Ones who contribute

3. Ones who are carried

 

Before joining a progression guild and being somewhat new to MMO's, I ran daily HM's to grind gear. My experiences from this period generated a breakdown of the three classes as 10%/60%/30%. Lately, those ratios have slid further from the middle to something like 20%/40%/40%. Server transfers and new interest from the expansion might change these ratios even further. Regardless, how you gear and how familiar you are with the mechanics of each FP are in direct correlation to one another.

 

I doubt anyone who carries or contributes cares much about gearing questions in HM's. So...the question and answer primarily resides with those not familiar with the mechanics and/or not in gear state that makes up for mistakes. Familiarity will obviously weight requirements down as they progress. But, if one needs a current all-encompassing answer to how geared is enough to keep the gear hawks at bay, I would say 190 with some augs is safe. At least, the common gear hawk comment is "you can get easy 190 gear from Ziost".

 

If you want to avoid that conversation, go get it.

 

But it's not really that simple. Tanks need to know mechanics. Healers need to understand their abilities. There are added responsibilities for both roles. DPS can get away with a lot, except in DPS checks like the Blood Hunt first boss. I guess my point is that if you get your feathers ruffled by gear hawks, tanking and healing may not be the role for you until you get familiar and/or geared. Percentage-wise, the path of least resistance as "the carried" is as DPS.

 

Let me be clear, I'm not advising one to avoid the role you want to be. But, if you're a tank or healer, you better develop a thick skin. That's just life in SWTOR. Shoot, there are a few players who are just elitist, never happy, and always condescending. Learn to ignore them...both while you're in the group and afterwards by clicking "ignore."

 

Enjoy the game and don't let others take that away from you or discourage you from learning/grinding/gearing. Easier said than done...but if one lesson was apparent after my HM grinding was complete, it was this. If you are doing your best with the time you have to spend, then you're alright in my book.

 

thanks for the kind words there, if I'm honest I think I fit in the contribute category, I know how to play my roles as I have been playing them not just in swtor but in just about every mmo I have ever played, my main problem is that I take condescension and such to heart, so guess I need to get that thick skin enhancement

 

currently rolling full armor set of 190 ziost gear, with 2 crafted gtn relics off hand 190, main hand 186 with gtn crafted mods and such, all thats left really is to grind ziost to get my earpiece/implants up to 190 aswell as they are really old.

Dont know if I will purposefully grind for elite/ult comms, as I actually enjoy the early/mid game more than the end game because of the story

(should add that the relics are both 186 and set me back a pretty penny of 60K creds)

Edited June 27, 2015 by LeonoraOmega

[AndoEyrune]

A somewhat random post going back to posting health values, my assassin tank is at about 58.5k hp (with a stim).

[CrazyGreggy]

thanks for the kind words there, if I'm honest I think I fit in the contribute category,

 

If you know your role/spec and are carrying out research on gearing etc, you ARE in the contribute category. The carried are those who neither know what they're doing nor care, because "it's a video game". Never understood how they can compartmentalise activities into "this other person is a person and I should treat their time like my own" (probably real life stuff with friends/relatives) and "I can't be bothered following normal rules of polite conduct because you're just an electronic ghost to me".

[Torvai]

A somewhat random post going back to posting health values, my assassin tank is at about 58.5k hp (with a stim).

 

I'm working on a full endurance shadow tank. Currently sitting at 66,7k. Still missing comm implants and earpiece, two 198 relics and 2 modifications and enhancements. So 70k should be possible:D

[AlrikFassbauer]

Anyways, to further answer you beyond what Cheater wrote:

 

186 is bought with Basic comms;

190 is rewarded by doing the Ziost missions/dailies;

192 is bought with Elite comms; or

192 gear drops in SM operations; and

192 Tokens are won in SM operations; while

198 is bought with Ultimate comms; and

198 gear drops in HM operations; and

198 Tokens are won in HM operations.

 

Personally, I'd add Ruishi and Yavin 4 to that list, because before Ziost, there are Rishi and Yavin 4. Sounds logical, doesn't it ?

 

You can't say that something is over there without mentioning the way one has to go through to get to "over there".

[AndoEyrune]

I'm working on a full endurance shadow tank. Currently sitting at 66,7k. Still missing comm implants and earpiece, two 198 relics and 2 modifications and enhancements. So 70k should be possible:D

Don't forget about the 204 MH, it's quite a significant source of endurance:D