Rafaman Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Fair enough, it matters to some for continuity etc. But it doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. I never finished and class quest and immediately checked wookiepedia to ensure it had continuity. Edited June 10, 2015 by Rafaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptSassyPants Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I don't understand how Star Wars is 'canon' at all. Isn't canon used to refer to legit scriptures or other sacred writings? The word translates from law, after all. Like the Bible, or the Quran; those are canon. Star Wars is some story some dude made up, this one time. Even if all are fiction, SW is the only one presented as fiction. Doesn't that disqualify it from ever calling itself canon, ever? So really, the whole thing is legends; they can change it however they want to. Plus as someone mentioned, they already began going the route of Marvel, where a bunch of books by other random dudes have come out, and some of them contradict, but they're all 'official,' so that continuity ship sailed in the 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monumenta Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I don't understand how Star Wars is 'canon' at all. Isn't canon used to refer to legit scriptures or other sacred writings? The word translates from law, after all. Like the Bible, or the Quran; those are canon. Star Wars is some story some dude made up, this one time. Even if all are fiction, SW is the only one presented as fiction. Doesn't that disqualify it from ever calling itself canon, ever? So really, the whole thing is legends; they can change it however they want to. Plus as someone mentioned, they already began going the route of Marvel, where a bunch of books by other random dudes have come out, and some of them contradict, but they're all 'official,' so that continuity ship sailed in the 80s. Yes a thousand years ago the term Canon meant a Canonized scripture which meant the old white dudes from the church approved the writings of long dead weirdos but since then this thing called pop culture and modern media have developed and the term has come to be used to describe a consistent narrative in a fictitious universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conundrum-NSA Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) SWTOR is not canon in any shape or form, I kinda wonder why it's so hard for some to accept that. I will admit watching the contortions for "sorta canon" and "might maybe someday be canon" are pretty funny. Edited June 10, 2015 by Conundrum-NSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Because many would like that fake universe to be one fake universe and not multiple fake universes. Some are really into SW, as they are into Star Trek, Dr. Who, etc. They want anything that's written in any of those fake universes to be consistent, otherwise the fantasy kind of falls apart. No it doesn't...look at how many freaking relaunches of Batman we've had...Superman...Spiderman...geezus...people want exciting stories, despite "reboots". Reboots happen. Nothing Disney says or does, removes the previous Star Wars adventures from our memories. The Thrawn Trilogy, despite being screwed over in this reboot, will remain one of the most epic Star Wars adventures ever written. I don't care if Thrawn never lived according to Mickey, because according to the awesome novels by Zahn, he did exist. There is no "canon" in fiction and fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senrie Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) No it doesn't...look at how many freaking relaunches of Batman we've had...Superman...Spiderman...geezus...people want exciting stories, despite "reboots". Reboots happen. I'm looking, and I see nothing but trash piled on trash because they didn't care enough about canon. That's why they had to reboot so many times because they let it get out of hand. Edited June 10, 2015 by Senrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 No it doesn't...look at how many freaking relaunches of Batman we've had...Superman...Spiderman...geezus...people want exciting stories, despite "reboots". Reboots happen. Nothing Disney says or does, removes the previous Star Wars adventures from our memories. The Thrawn Trilogy, despite being screwed over in this reboot, will remain one of the most epic Star Wars adventures ever written. I don't care if Thrawn never lived according to Mickey, because according to the awesome novels by Zahn, he did exist. There is no "canon" in fiction and fantasy. I don't often agree with Tux, but when I do I drink Dos Equis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm looking, and I see nothing but trash piled on trash because they didn't care enough about canon. That's why they had to reboot so many times because they let it get out of hand. Pfft...not at all...they had to reboot because their audience is ever changing and their end goal is $$$$, not continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I don't often agree with Tux, but when I do I drink Dos Equis. We shall drink together my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conundrum-NSA Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 No it doesn't...look at how many freaking relaunches of Batman we've had...Superman...Spiderman...geezus...people want exciting stories, despite "reboots". Reboots happen. Nothing Disney says or does, removes the previous Star Wars adventures from our memories. The Thrawn Trilogy, despite being screwed over in this reboot, will remain one of the most epic Star Wars adventures ever written. I don't care if Thrawn never lived according to Mickey, because according to the awesome novels by Zahn, he did exist. There is no "canon" in fiction and fantasy. Keep telling yourself that if you need to. Your precious EU is dead dead dead. MUHAHAHAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senrie Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Pfft...not at all...they had to reboot because their audience is ever changing and their end goal is $$$$, not continuity. They reboot because they write themselves into a corner with stupid concepts and bad storylines and can't do anything but start over. People want good stories, as you said, and canon is a tool to help do that. You've never said about a story "It would be cool if that happened"? Or "I wish they didn't do this"? Never found out something about a story later and said "That makes it so much better"? These are all examples of canon mattering. Canon also matters if you want to talk about the world with other people: what something meant, the implications, the possibilities. These discussions can be contentious enough without even being able to agree on what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Keep telling yourself that if you need to. Your precious EU is dead dead dead. MUHAHAHAHAHA I still have all 3 hard cover books, the 3 graphic novels, and the audio books. My EU is alive and well because I'm not the one who gives a flip about continuity...especially after the whole Vong debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) They reboot because they write themselves into a corner with stupid concepts and bad storylines and can't do anything but start over. People want good stories, as you said, and canon is a tool to help do that. You've never said about a story "It would be cool if that happened"? Or "I wish they didn't do this"? Never found out something about a story later and said "That makes it so much better"? These are all examples of canon mattering. Canon also matters if you want to talk about the world with other people: what something meant, the implications, the possibilities. These discussions can be contentious enough without even being able to agree on what happened. I understand the desires for it, but there are far too many bad decisions made that screw things up...ie, death of chewbacca, death of superman, death of Jacen Solo, destruction of Coruscant (and other worlds) by the Vong...those stories backed Disney into a hole just as much as anything in the DC Universe does. I agree that some consistency and continuity is important, but it needs to be taken in context...the context that it's all subject to change. EDIT: And...just be glad you're a Star Wars fan where we've had only ONE (semi) reboot in 30 years...cuz in that same time, I've seen Superman reinvented at least 4 times, Spider-man like 9 times, and every freaking one has to kill Uncle Ben the same freaking way...like we don't get that he's dead. Batman has been played by about 20 different "actors" and every Batman movie ever made seems to think they should re-dramatize Bruce Wayne's parents death. Geezus...at least with us, we have the freaking main story as canon - Rebel vs Empire, Luke vs. Darth, Jedi vs Sith...if DC Comics had bought Star Wars, we'd have to watch Darth Vader die again in slightly more dramatic way in every freaking new movie... Edited June 10, 2015 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senrie Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I understand the desires for it, but there are far too many bad decisions made that screw things up...ie, death of chewbacca, death of superman, death of Jacen Solo, destruction of Coruscant (and other worlds) by the Vong...those stories backed Disney into a hole just as much as anything in the DC Universe does. Well, that was the EU getting out of hand. I think most EU fans knew that the post-RotJ EU was in dire need of some changes. Just hoped it would be surgical instead of a complete purge. I'm not terribly bothered by what happened to the EU, but the level of disrespect I've seen some give it is annoying. Star Wars without the EU would not have sustained my interest for two decades. I just hope the new Star Wars canon is handled with more care. I agree that some consistency and continuity is important, but it needs to be taken in context...the context that it's all subject to change. Reboots should be the nuclear option, though. They should never let the canon get so bad that it's required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Well, that was the EU getting out of hand. I think most EU fans knew that the post-RotJ EU was in dire need of some changes. Just hoped it would be surgical instead of a complete purge. I'm not terribly bothered by what happened to the EU, but the level of disrespect I've seen some give it is annoying. Star Wars without the EU would not have sustained my interest for two decades. I just hope the new Star Wars canon is handled with more care. Reboots should be the nuclear option, though. They should never let the canon get so bad that it's required. We're largely in agreement. I think that, in a way, we were fortunate George retained all rights to Star Wars for as long as he did...that's what fostered the expansion of the EU to where it is today. And his insistence that he was done with Star Wars movies, allowed for people to become more attached to the canon that was being created. Now that Star Wars has become a brand for Disney, I highly doubt we'll ever have 30 years without rebooting again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumperPenn Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I don't care what canon is. To clarify I don't care that the expanded universe that existed for so long and gave me so much enjoyment with all the stories and 'history' of SW not filled in by Lucas because he was busy enjoying his money, doing other things and taking a mostly 'backseat' role to what would be used to make him more money. I understand how people think disney HAD to do the 'legends' thing but they really didn't, nothing said they had to follow the books word for word as many adaptations have not. There would be little chance that people wouldn't want to see the films because they already read the books. The only real issues would be with screenwriters/directors etc who would throw a temper tantrum because they couldn't do whatever they wanted with the story. So I don't think TOR NEEDS to be made canon, canon is just a word that doesn't effect how great or non-great material is. I think all companies want moar things to 'quench their corporate greed' because that's why businesses exist to make more money and be morally bankrupt as possible, business business business, numbers. But Disney has done fine with marvel and pixar so to think they'll ruin sw is silly (ahem episodes 1-3). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papazmurf Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm all for the discussion, except that it's been done to death and there hasn't been any recent news regarding the status. I play SWTOR because it's fun and just because some company said "this probably didn't happen in our version" doesn't mean I have to adhere to that. Plus the way things are currently, nothing has really been made SW wise that really makes this and most other material contradictory. Until something comes out that blatantly makes it's so story X Y Z did not happen, it's all SW and gravy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrupt-luck Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) They can't make everything under the sw title the same or people would lose interest fast. Edited June 10, 2015 by Corrupt-luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conundrum-NSA Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Well, that was the EU getting out of hand. I think most EU fans knew that the post-RotJ EU was in dire need of some changes. Just hoped it would be surgical instead of a complete purge. I'm not terribly bothered by what happened to the EU, but the level of disrespect I've seen some give it is annoying. Star Wars without the EU would not have sustained my interest for two decades. I just hope the new Star Wars canon is handled with more care. Reboots should be the nuclear option, though. They should never let the canon get so bad that it's required. The reason the EU gets a lot of "disrespect" is due to some of it's cult like followers who were virtually demanding that any future movies be about Thrawn and Luke and Mara Jade and whatever other nonsense. They're like comic book purist discussing superhero movies. They piss people off acting like they have some authority or they are the experts on the subject and then wonder why there is so much schadenfreude when their hopes get crushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiDonJorn Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The reason the EU gets a lot of "disrespect" is due to some of it's cult like followers who were virtually demanding that any future movies be about Thrawn and Luke and Mara Jade and whatever other nonsense. They're like comic book purist discussing superhero movies. They piss people off acting like they have some authority or they are the experts on the subject and then wonder why there is so much schadenfreude when their hopes get crushed. Ha ha, yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumperPenn Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The reason the EU gets a lot of "disrespect" is due to some of it's cult like followers who were virtually demanding that any future movies be about Thrawn and Luke and Mara Jade and whatever other nonsense. They're like comic book purist discussing superhero movies. They piss people off acting like they have some authority or they are the experts on the subject and then wonder why there is so much schadenfreude when their hopes get crushed. When I've encountered discussion of comics (I never got into because there were far too many issues/storylines crossovers and so on) I'm interested so long as the person isn't being a jerk. Knowing the subject matter never pissed me off nor threatened me that they might be an expert on something I knew little to nothing about. I haven't encountered jerks in that matter except typical internet one liners the real soandso was the one made by thatartist/writer everything else was crap. To me it sounds like if the person wasn't being a jerk about what they knew "expert in EU" then the real problem is with the person who's upset that they didn't know the information because this other nerd is a bigger nerd who consumed more of the sw content released into the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) I don't often agree with Tux, but when I do I drink Dos Equis. Oh, yeah? I agree with him less often than you do. Make it Tres Equis. Yes a thousand years ago the term Canon meant a Canonized scripture which meant the old white dudes from the church approved the writings of long dead weirdos but since then this thing called pop culture and modern media have developed and the term has come to be used to describe a consistent narrative in a fictitious universe. "Canon" has been used for decades in the form we are using it in this thread. Edited June 10, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobs_YourUncle Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 No it doesn't...look at how many freaking relaunches of Batman we've had...Superman...Spiderman...geezus...people want exciting stories, despite "reboots". Reboots happen. Nothing Disney says or does, removes the previous Star Wars adventures from our memories. The Thrawn Trilogy, despite being screwed over in this reboot, will remain one of the most epic Star Wars adventures ever written. I don't care if Thrawn never lived according to Mickey, because according to the awesome novels by Zahn, he did exist. There is no "canon" in fiction and fantasy. Sure there is, but if you don't believe there are any standards of officiality or whatever in any fiction universe, I guess the point is mute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timarick Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 The Old Republic era is so so far back, it doesn't even matter if they say it is or not. The reason they didn't say it's NOT canon is because it doesn't effect anything for the direction of the new movies. So until they say it's not, it is. Ummmm, they confirmed at Celebration that SWTOR was non-canon. If you like, you can watch the Canon Panel that was hosted at Celebration back in April (which I was at and even got one of my questions answered in fact), and they flat out said: SWTOR is not canon, but that doesn't mean they want to touch it because they like it. A lot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL9dsXuH8VE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) I'm confused... We're all playing a game in a pretend universe. Does this whole canon vs. Legend thing truly bother some of you so much that we needed another debate on it? Old Star Wars, new Star Wars and even future Star Wars...ALL OF IT IS FAKE! It could all change at any moment. Pretend everything you read, play, see, all happens in alternative universes. Some of us actually do roleplay and try to keep our roleplay as accurate as possible. Even though it is a story and someone wrote it, having things go off in a million directions can create a problem for some roleplayers especially if they are the type that write forum roleplays. I know the group I roleplay with (mainly the forum roleplay) do take the time to go and research something, whether it is a weapon, a planet, or something else so we can figure out how to tie the weapon, etc. into the time line we are working on. Edited June 11, 2015 by ScarletBlaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts