KalElc Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Tell me what other good this will do in nwz and rank war zone to switch to tank spec. Just to protect anyone or yourself by switching stance and even gear at the start to do so. BioWare have already dealt with hybrid spec, i figure out that Stance swapping and guard as dps should be the next step for them to do if they want to have a bit more balance in Solo Rank. Atm. its part of the game so i have already accepted this. but i want some input, like whats your stance on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ershiin Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I greatly appreciate it when I end up without a Tank and someone decides they'll be helpful to the team and go tankstance so they can guard. Dont see what the problem is.. I mean should we get rid of healers' ability to do damage aswell? Completely ignoring how bad it is, and just remove it on principle? Should I stop offhealing on my Operative too? They're just squishy DPS who are considerate/smart enough to help fill a gap created by the RNG that made their team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) Ahaha! Solo...ranked...this ez mode if u lucky to get T1 Do ever try to tunel tank hybrid? He died very quickly, no matter what class he is. This issue is not an issue. If there is a healer - healer wins, not dat guy who just switch stance/use tank gear. If srsly i'm really suprized dat smdy still playing this game. Edited June 7, 2015 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalElc Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 true true, my issue is mostly on x3 dås game with a heal and u know skank tank, seen it to often lately but o well. My goal was to bring this discussion up and see everyone opinion on this and hopefully if a dev can answer to this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmenks Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think guard should be tied into just the tank tree, while the stances are open to everyone if they want to get the defense and survivability increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) I greatly appreciate it when I end up without a Tank and someone decides they'll be helpful to the team and go tankstance so they can guard. Dont see what the problem is.. I mean should we get rid of healers' ability to do damage aswell? Completely ignoring how bad it is, and just remove it on principle? Should I stop offhealing on my Operative too? They're just squishy DPS who are considerate/smart enough to help fill a gap created by the RNG that made their team. short answer: there is matchmaking in solo raked (IKR?!?), and skank tanking breaks the matchmaking. long answer: this is a solo ranked issue. solo ranked matches are determined, first and foremost, on roles. after roles, they are determined by ratings. ACs and disciplines have nothing to do with it whatsoever. basically, if one team has two jugg dps, a sorc dps and a sorc healer and the other team has an op dps, a sniper, a mara and a sorc healer, the team with the juggs CAN skank tank (effectively play with a tank to guard the healer) while the team without a guard-capable AC CANNOT skank tank at all. furthermore, even if both teams have ACs capable of guarding, there's a slim possibility that they both have tank gear that they can throw on. however, someone who does skank tank a lot in order to cheat the matchmaking system will often have some pieces (shield generator!) if not a full set of gear he can throw on to bump up his hp, making the guard infinitely more effective. lastly, while it's technically possible for all three ACs to skank, it's really only something that juggs can do without swapping to tank gear because of the nature of jugg DCDs (every dps jugg has DCDs that directly refill or inflate their hp, which is the most important stat for guard). juggs also have the best tank-centric abilities while in their dps trees (intercede, force push, awe). indeed, juggs can also change stance at a moment's notice, leap to an enemy and dps at full bore w/o skipping a beat. the upshot here is that not only would both teams need ACs and players capable of tanking in dps spec, but even of those ACs that are capable, there's one that is ridiculously more capable than the others, meaning you're far less likely to have a player on each team who can do it -- I'll say it again, this circumvents the only universally good thing about solo ranked, which is to create teams that are (supposed to be) role balanced. so you see, there are a few reasons why skank tanks should be eliminated. as far as regs go, there is no matchmaking, so throwing a guard on a friend doesn't affect a damn thing. the other team could have 8 tanks. I will often queue on my jugg when a healer friend runs regs with me. that's no big deal. I could respec tank and queue with him too. it wouldn't affect who else was on our team or our opponents team. but it directly affects the composition of a solo ranked team. the system wouldn't allow me into the match as a tank unless it could find a tank for the other team. edit: it struck me as crazy that I didn't get my veng stance until around level 40 or something. a lot of stances are tied to disciplines, although I think it's more common for this to occur at the very beginning of the discipline (e.g, aturu). this change wouldn't be a big deal for regs. you'd just have to respec before you queue (that's a minor inconvenience). it would not affect grp ranked whatsoever as far as I know. and it would eliminate the skank tank's ability to circumvent solo q matchmaking. Edited June 7, 2015 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramhez Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 guard should be disabled in solo ranked games if you are queued as dps. they should have done this ages ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraz Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think guard should be tied into just the tank tree, while the stances are open to everyone if they want to get the defense and survivability increase. I like this even more. Great and simple idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twithep Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) I don't see any reason why DPS should be allowed to go into tank stance/cylinder and guard. This creates insanely unbalanced matches, especially when the tank classes carry a seperate tank set to use if they end up in 3dps+healer matches. When two 3dps+healer teams have the same skill, and one team has a skanktank (DPS that guards), the team with the tank wins 90% of the time unless someone does something very stupid. Edited June 7, 2015 by Twithep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 gimmick specs and builds are, for lack of a better word, lame. of course tank skills should be disabled in dps specs.. just as healing skills arent available to healing hybrids or we get nerfed versions of them. i understand someone "tying to help", but lets be real, thats not why its done. gear and skills should ne tied to specs... no tanks in dps gear either for example Skank tanks are just gimmicks... not intelligence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraz Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 gear and skills should ne tied to specs... no tanks in dps gear either for example Skank tanks are just gimmicks... not intelligence I disagree with the underlined quite a bit. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean we should arbitrarily put a rule-set that prevents certain classes from using armorings/mods of choice. Dps Speced players using a stance that was not intended for the spec and, in turn, an ability not intended for the spec(Guard). Is not the same as a Tank speced player opting to min/max in a unorthodox way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarast Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't know... skank tanks give up alot of dps potential to become a gimped tank. I mean, is this really sich an important issue that it should be prioitized over other pressing matters, like merc survivability in yolo q? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Healius- Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I think guard should be tied into just the tank tree, while the stances are open to everyone if they want to get the defense and survivability increase. Indeed, dont see why they are allowed guard if they are not a tank!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanFM Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 guard should be disabled in solo ranked games if you are queued as dps. they should have done this ages ago. This. There's nothing wrong with people wanting to "skank tank" in regs in my opinion. You can decide to guard the ball carrier in huttball, for example, or try to keep your healer alive in a tight spot in any warzone. I don't think there's anything wrong with that in regs. The issue arises in Solo Ranked because the only reason it is semi-functional is because the roles on each team are equal. So rather than stop people from using whatever stance they want or stop dps from using guard in the rest of the game, just disable guard in Solo Ranked if you queue as dps. That way it only effects Solo Ranked as that is where the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flintfire Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 IDK Why people complain about this. It is a very easy situation to counter. Realize a tank dps is not prepared to take the amount of damage a true tank would. The only situation this would happen is without a tank and with a healer, so I am assuming you have 3 dps. Get 2 people to focus the healer as usual. The skank tank tries to stay near healer and guard and takes the damage. However, without that extra 10kish health and mitigation tank gear provides they will start to take a beating. Now that 3rd dps should then attack the skank tank. Put more pressure on his health. It will be too much for the skank tank and he will either have to stop guarding the healer or die. He is not only taking damage from 1 dps, but 50% of damage from an ally who is getting tunneled. Unless that healer is the best I have ever seen or the dps sucks, he will die. Then you get the situation of 3v4 in ranked, which is usually very hard to recover from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't know... skank tanks give up alot of dps potential to become a gimped tank. I mean, is this really sich an important issue that it should be prioitized over other pressing matters, like merc survivability in yolo q? is it a priority over other things, no, of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I disagree with the underlined quite a bit. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean we should arbitrarily put a rule-set that prevents certain classes from using armorings/mods of choice. Dps Speced players using a stance that was not intended for the spec and, in turn, an ability not intended for the spec(Guard). Is not the same as a Tank speced player opting to min/max in a unorthodox way. A gimmick is a gimmick is a gimmick. whether its the dps going skank or the tank going for dps... he is still out of role. We both know the intent of this.. to inject guard where it would otherwise not be and should not be based on the chosen roles to maximize and in many ways skirt the mechanics of the WZ to gain advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalElc Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) IDK Why people complain about this. It is a very easy situation to counter. Realize a tank dps is not prepared to take the amount of damage a true tank would. The only situation this would happen is without a tank and with a healer, so I am assuming you have 3 dps. Get 2 people to focus the healer as usual. The skank tank tries to stay near healer and guard and takes the damage. However, without that extra 10kish health and mitigation tank gear provides they will start to take a beating. Now that 3rd dps should then attack the skank tank. Put more pressure on his health. It will be too much for the skank tank and he will either have to stop guarding the healer or die. He is not only taking damage from 1 dps, but 50% of damage from an ally who is getting tunneled. Unless that healer is the best I have ever seen or the dps sucks, he will die. Then you get the situation of 3v4 in ranked, which is usually very hard to recover from. I only wish i had competent players that want to listen to this tactic most that skank these days knows what they are doing and some people know how to prevent to get counter by that strategy. I haven't lost with skank tank yet this season so it might be different in some other servers. I guess the outcome can go both ways. Edited June 8, 2015 by KalElc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I'm not sure why they left all these stances in 3.0. Tank/healing and dps stances i.e. all of them. They are all redundant by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zabrak Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I think it's fine as it is for reg warzones, it's added team utility, on my assassin I might switch stances to guard ball carrier or on my dps jugg if I see my healer getting pounded tradeoff? I neuter my dps for a while and am definitely not built to tank so I'll be taking a pounding. They should simply disable it for solo ranked as it breaks matchmaking when people specifically use the feature to game the system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalElc Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'm not sure why they left all these stances in 3.0. Tank/healing and dps stances i.e. all of them. They are all redundant by now. Maybe...hm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure why they left all these stances in 3.0. Tank/healing and dps stances i.e. all of them. They are all redundant by now. not at all redundant. they needed a way for opponents to figure out what BHs, Wars, and sins were spec'd before fighting them, but agents and sorcs should be able to "hide" what spec they're running until you catch them casting something particular to a certain spec. /sarcasm in all seroiusness, though, I find that if I'm not marking the healers, 80% of the time they don't get marked at all. and then random markers go out to dps mandos and stuff. these are WZs, mind you, not arenas where marking all four actually serves a purpose. anyway...I'll be halfway through the 2nd round of vstar and find a sorc healing (with puddle and channel) and then just facepalm cuz I was on the other side all match so nobody else marked him. he was just free casting all match. groan. mercs never get away with that. green beam of death even worse! (but I do like green beam for finding where my teammates are in a scrum). Edited June 9, 2015 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberDuberSoldat Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 There are too many other issues with matchmaking that disabling tank stance will not solve anything, just make it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJollyRogers Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I thought the whole idea of making the discipline trees like they are was to avoid cheese strategies like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_McSkill Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 DPS spec'd scorcs, ops and mercs should have their healing abilities disabled in solos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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