3.3, the death of dps spec off heals? lol

[fujeothree]

And yet no one posted in the relevant feedback demanding nerfs.

 

Why is this.

 

I wasn't around when that thread was up, but I would've posted that Priming Shot needs to be nerfed to a 1.5 second cast time and the instant Tracer Missile proc should be removed.

[cs_zoltan]

In the post just above mine, you whine about Mercs not being able to get off their 1.5 second cast heal. So how the hell do you expect Sorcs to spend 2 seconds trying to recover a piddling amount of force?

 

On that point, people whined and whined and whined about Sorc off-healing. Most of which was Dark Heal with its 1.5 second cast. People literally begged for a spammable heal (besides Kolto Shot.)

 

But you complain that Mercs can't get off a 1.5 second cast without their instant cooldown. DPS Sorcs/Sages don't have a way to make Benevolence instant, so why was it so great for us, but you're complaining about it now?

 

Stating facts now is considred whining? I don't even know why I'm surprised about you hostility. A man can't say a bad word about Sages, whether they are right or not, or challange your biased comments without you white knighting.

 

Maybe if you were to think through what you just said you wouldn't make such a fool of yourself.

 

1. Interrupting selfhealing is of the highest priority, I'm baffeled that you think anyone would care to interrupt Vindicate as much as Rapid Scan.
   
2. Vindicate can be used on the move, Rapid Scan can't. That's a huge advantage right there.
   
3. TK has additional interrupt immunity at a possible 26.6% uptime.
   
4. Both Sage dps specs have a good enough resource management to not need to worry about it at all (Madness only in AoE situation), while Mercs are ****ed after 2 Rapid Scan.
   
5. Quote me where I complained about Benevolence, I'll be waiting...
   

 

Maybe tone down the bigotry next time. I only said Sages still have a resource cooldown and then you snap at me...

[Owynyo]

I wasn't around when that thread was up, but I would've posted that Priming Shot needs to be nerfed to a 1.5 second cast time and the instant Tracer Missile proc should be removed.

 

http://i.imgur.com/iYxCSIx.gif

 

You're not funny. Go away.

[fujeothree]

http://i.imgur.com/iYxCSIx.gif

 

You're not funny. Go away.

 

I'm not trying to be funny.

[Armisaell]

Don't bother with sorcs/Mercs, they have to manage their energy and stay in one place.

Go with healing scoundrels/ops, they don't give a **** about energy, spam instant heals, have HoTs all over, laugh at your focus and will soon get buffed in order to run even more around freely while keeping an entire team alive

[Master-Nala]

Stating facts now is considred whining? I don't even know why I'm surprised about you hostility. A man can't say a bad word about Sages, whether they are right or not, or challange your biased comments without you white knighting.

 

Maybe if you were to think through what you just said you wouldn't make such a fool of yourself.

 

1. Interrupting selfhealing is of the highest priority, I'm baffeled that you think anyone would care to interrupt Vindicate as much as Rapid Scan.
   
2. Vindicate can be used on the move, Rapid Scan can't. That's a huge advantage right there.
   
3. TK has additional interrupt immunity at a possible 26.6% uptime.
   
4. Both Sage dps specs have a good enough resource management to not need to worry about it at all (Madness only in AoE situation), while Mercs are ****ed after 2 Rapid Scan.
   
5. Quote me where I complained about Benevolence, I'll be waiting...
   

 

Maybe tone down the bigotry next time. I only said Sages still have a resource cooldown and then you snap at me...

 

First, please learn what the word "bigotry" means. You are the first one who resorts to personal attacks when someone disagrees with you.

 

Vindicate can be used on the move with Force mobility. That's a utility cost, even if many people take it anyway. And, there's the whole point of it still costing two seconds of cast time.

 

Dark Heal can't be used on the move, however. And it's the directly analogous power to Rapid Scan. I note that you didn't mention that. And you talk about being biased.

 

Where is this great resource management for Balance/Madness? Please enlighten me, especially how AoE has anything to do with it? I'm genuinely confused by that comment. After these changes, there is no way for either Balance or TK to spam Benevolence over and over without crashing their force. And we don't have a power like recharge cells. Just Vindicate which costs us 2 seconds of cast time to recover less than half the force Benevolence costs.

 

Next, I never said YOU complained about Benevolence, I said people. Unlike you I am careful with my word choice.

 

Finally, I absolutely will defend the class I like to play against the irrational hate people exhibit on these boards. I have called for nerfs for Sorcs/Sages in the past (actually I have argued for it just yesterday in the thread about Backlash), and I will again if warranted.

[Lhancelot]

Perhaps Lightning spec against PvE geared players. That's nowhere near typical and it is literally impossible for Balance/Madness.

 

As for the "buff" to Sorc/Sages, you people do understand that DPS specs are effectively losing their energy recovery tool. As for the larger heals they come with an outsized force cost increase. Which gels with all the whining about Sorc 'infinite force'.

 

Yeah. After reading all of the different opinions and theorycraft before PTS is even up, what I get is people say "sorcs buffed! Mercs nerfed!"

 

From what I get out of the PTS notes so far is, sorcs use more energy now, will run out of energy faster... And mercs lose an oh-crap heal and gain a smaller spammable heal?

 

In effect, the sorc change could overall lessen the healing output of the sorc in a long battle.

 

The dps merc change will allow the merc to sit off to the side and give some limited support healing but loses an on-the-run instant heal. Unless I missed something?

 

Anyway, if this happens, the dps merc will still be in the same boat of inability to survive any type of focus. Their biggest problem is totally ignored. As is the healing merc.

 

I am surprised they actually think they need to nerf some of the healing output on the healing mercs instant no-cost heal though. It's already pretty crappy?

 

I believe the change to the 6 piece set bonus for PVP set lowering the cooldown by 3 seconds on kolto waves is to stop ops from using the 2 piece bonus set from PVE that gives +15% to recuperative nanotech (3 targets healed AE).

 

Right now, most ops in PVP mix the PVP set with 4 pieces and use 2 pieces from the PVE set because the 1 second cooldown for kolto cloud was not as beneficial as the bonus to that 2 set. I am curious as to if this change will change ops preference to using the pve set fro the two piece bonus.

 

All the theorycrafting is fun. But, don't complain on forums before trying it. All of you, if you care enough to create posts on the changes, log into PTS try it, and then give your opinion on how it goes gamewise.

 

We all know metrics and theorycrafting is useful to get an idea of how things MIGHT will be, but until you get in the game and try it, it's not fair to judge or assume anything.

[leonlotus]

Death of every DPS spec.

 

I really wish they see the errors of neglecting PvP like this, when the last PvPers unsub.

[Master-Nala]

Yeah. After reading all of the different opinions and theorycraft before PTS is even up, what I get is people say "sorcs buffed! Mercs nerfed!"

 

From what I get out of the PTS notes so far is, sorcs use more energy now, will run out of energy faster... And mercs lose an oh-crap heal and gain a smaller spammable heal?

 

In effect, the sorc change could overall lessen the healing output of the sorc in a long battle.

 

Exactly. I'm going to test it out, but Sorcs/Sages do have some experience with Benevolence/Dark Heal costing this much. And it wasn't a good idea to try an spam it.

 

So I'm guessing it's more healing, but at more cost.

 

The dps merc change will allow the merc to sit off to the side and give some limited support healing but loses an on-the-run instant heal. Unless I missed something?

 

Mercs are trading a slightly longer cast, but significantly more power heal (Healing Scan) for a slightly shorter cast, weaker but spammable heal.

 

So more healing at more cost. But it's really worse for the Merc because if the nerf to Kolto Shot is as bad as it was the last time this was on PTS, this is a massive nerf to Mercs. I really hate that people complained so much about Kolto/Med Shot. It really wasn't that bad, but everyone treated it like it was irrelevant so the devs went ahead and made it so.

 

We all know metrics and theorycrafting is useful to get an idea of how things MIGHT will be, but until you get in the game and try it, it's not fair to judge or assume anything.

 

Agreed. Can't wait to try all this out.

[cs_zoltan]

First, please learn what the word "bigotry" means. You are the first one who resorts to personal attacks when someone disagrees with you.

I highly doubt I'm the first one, and I didn't resort to personal attack because you disagree with me, but because you were hostile toward me without provocation. I didn't turn this conversation into this mess, you did.

 

Vindicate can be used on the move with Force mobility. That's a utility cost, even if many people take it anyway. And, there's the whole point of it still costing two seconds of cast time.

 

Dark Heal can't be used on the move, however. And it's the directly analogous power to Rapid Scan. I note that you didn't mention that. And you talk about being biased.

You brought up Vindicate vs Rapid Scan out of nowhere, I never mentioned that comparison. And now you even bring up DH vs RS. How the hell is it biased that I didn't???

Where is this great resource management for Balance/Madness? Please enlighten me, especially how AoE has anything to do with it? I'm genuinely confused by that comment. After these changes, there is no way for either Balance or TK to spam Benevolence over and over without crashing their force. And we don't have a power like recharge cells. Just Vindicate which costs us 2 seconds of cast time to recover less than half the force Benevolence costs.

Here:

Devour: Force Leech deals 25% more damage when used on a target affected by your Affliction. In addition, each time a charge of your Deathmark is consumed, you gain 2 Force.

 

Do you even know your class?

Next, I never said YOU complained about Benevolence, I said people. Unlike you I am careful with my word choice.

Not careful enough:

But you complain that Mercs can't get off a 1.5 second cast without their instant cooldown. DPS Sorcs/Sages don't have a way to make Benevolence instant, so why was it so great for us, but you're complaining about it now?

Finally, I absolutely will defend the class I like to play against the irrational hate people exhibit on these boards. I have called for nerfs for Sorcs/Sages in the past (actually I have argued for it just yesterday in the thread about Backlash), and I will again if warranted.

How is this irrational hating?

Vindicate/Consuming Darkness is still AC wide and can be used on the move with Force Mobility, so I'm not sure what you mean.

If anyone here is irrational, it's you.

Edited June 4, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[Technohic]

I definitely took it as an overall off-healing nerf but at the same time, I was sitting there looking at the merc part like "Is that really necessary?" I really just don't know how it will all work out though.

[AlrikFassbauer]

What I noticed from the PTS notes is that most basic healing talents are now spammable.

 

"Hm", I thought, "wasn't 'spammable' what made Operative Healers so OP ?"

[Master-Nala]

Here:

Devour: Force Leech deals 25% more damage when used on a target affected by your Affliction. In addition, each time a charge of your Deathmark is consumed, you gain 2 Force.

 

Do you even know your class?

 

Serious question, I'm not trying to antagonize you here. Do you really know how little that is in relation to Sage/Sorc force pools. I wondered if that was what you meant. In practically terms that does little more than take the edge off. Even if we assume 8 people got hit with a DoT spread that's 16 force. That's not nothing, I guess, but it really won't allow constant spamming of a 65 Force heal.

 

Not careful enough:

 

But you complain that Mercs can't get off a 1.5 second cast without their instant cooldown. DPS Sorcs/Sages don't have a way to make Benevolence instant, so why was it so great for us, but you're complaining about it now?

 

You were complaining about the cast time on Rapid Scan. There is nothing in this quote which asserts you are complaining about Benevolence. You DID complain about Rapid Scan. I ASKED you why, if it's good enough for Sorcs why are you complaining about it for Mercs.

 

If anyone here is irrational, it's you.

 

Perhaps. But, I'm reminded of a a saying about pots and kettles.

[TheCourier-]

Serious question, I'm not trying to antagonize you here. Do you really know how little that is in relation to Sage/Sorc force pools. I wondered if that was what you meant. In practically terms that does little more than take the edge off. Even if we assume 8 people got hit with a DoT spread that's 16 force. That's not nothing, I guess, but it really won't allow constant spamming of a 65 Force heal.

 

Not picking a side between you and CS, but madness spec played well in PVP has 0 issues with force power. Deathfield dot spread will easily regenerate force power (even if deathfield only hits 2-3 targets, that is 60 force power returned), and force lightning regenerates force power. Each deathmark regenerates 2 force power.

[cs_zoltan]

Serious question, I'm not trying to antagonize you here. Do you really know how little that is in relation to Sage/Sorc force pools. I wondered if that was what you meant. In practically terms that does little more than take the edge off. Even if we assume 8 people got hit with a DoT spread that's 16 force. That's not nothing, I guess, but it really won't allow constant spamming of a 65 Force heal.

Actually if you hit 8 people with DoT spread you recover 240 force (15 deathmark * 8 people * 2 force). The Aff-->CT->DF combo costs 95.5 - 36 (force recovered during the 3 gcd) force, so it's a net gain of 180.5 force. More realisticly with 4 people you gain 60.5 force.

 

You were complaining about the cast time on Rapid Scan. There is nothing in this quote which asserts you are complaining about Benevolence. You DID complain about Rapid Scan. I ASKED you why, if it's good enough for Sorcs why are you complaining about it for Mercs.

You seriously can't see the difference? I wasn't complaining, I was stating a fact. Can you are can you not get off casted heals without cooldowns (and/or utilities) when you are focused? I never once mentioned Sorcs in that conversation. (I used strong language with him, because he was an *** in this whole thread.)

And what I said for you, again, was just stating a fact that dps Sorcs do have resource cooldown. I wasn't picking a fight, I wasn't attacking you, nor the Sorc class.

 

It's just you who act like everything I say is an attack on Sorcs.

[Gyronamics]

What I noticed from the PTS notes is that most basic healing talents are now spammable.

 

"Hm", I thought, "wasn't 'spammable' what made Operative Healers so OP ?"

 

Spamming /= spamming while running around.

 

Cast spamming is you standing there like a lemon.

[Master-Nala]

Actually if you hit 8 people with DoT spread you recover 240 force (15 deathmark * 8 people * 2 force). The Aff-->CT->DF combo costs 95.5 - 36 (force recovered during the 3 gcd) force, so it's a net gain of 180.5 force. More realisticly with 4 people you gain 60.5 force.

 

That doesn't happen instantly. Sever Force and Weaken Mind don't tick constantly. And getting 8 people to consume all Deathmarks is nigh impossible. Put the argument aside for a moment, since you acknowledge that the max result is impractical. Even with 4 it's is very unlikely they will eat all the Deathmarks. That's not bias, that's just the truth. And ultimately gaining 60.5 force is one Benevolence cast in 3.3.

 

 

You seriously can't see the difference? I wasn't complaining, I was stating a fact. Can you are can you not get off casted heals without cooldowns (and/or utilities) when you are focused? I never once mentioned Sorcs in that conversation. (I used strong language with him, because he was an *** in this whole thread.)

And what I said for you, again, was just stating a fact that dps Sorcs do have resource cooldown. I wasn't picking a fight, I wasn't attacking you, nor the Sorc class.

 

It's just you who act like everything I say is an attack on Sorcs.

 

We're getting to the point where we're arguing about the argument so I will walk away from that at this point. I apologize if I misread your post.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Master-Nala

[diadox]

Yeah. After reading all of the different opinions and theorycraft before PTS is even up, what I get is people say "sorcs buffed! Mercs nerfed!"

The reason we are able to make judgements before pts is up is that most of these changes are the same as the ones from the previous pts testing that got reverted. It's true that numbers may have changed, but when the mechanics and even the wording of the changes are the same it's imo more likely than not that numbers have in fact not changed.

 

For instance, the Dark Heal buff was proportional to the increased force cost. So same healing per force, 30% buffed healing per time spent.

Edited June 4, 2015 by diadox

[Floplag]

I don't get it. Mercs are losing a heal with a cooldown for a spammable heal. How is that not a buff?

 

While perhaps spammable, it is reduced in effectiveness and we don't live long enough to spam it, thats why. Simple

[Floplag]

In the post just above mine, you whine about Mercs not being able to get off their 1.5 second cast heal. So how the hell do you expect Sorcs to spend 2 seconds trying to recover a piddling amount of force?

 

On that point, people whined and whined and whined about Sorc off-healing. Most of which was Dark Heal with its 1.5 second cast. People literally begged for a spammable heal (besides Kolto Shot.)

 

But you complain that Mercs can't get off a 1.5 second cast without their instant cooldown. DPS Sorcs/Sages don't have a way to make Benevolence instant, so why was it so great for us, but you're complaining about it now?

 

While true, sorcs have many ways to extend and escape that mercs do not. plus, i dont know abut you but when i play a sorc i cant remember the last time i actually had resource problems

[Floplag]

Yeah. After reading all of the different opinions and theorycraft before PTS is even up, what I get is people say "sorcs buffed! Mercs nerfed!"

 

From what I get out of the PTS notes so far is, sorcs use more energy now, will run out of energy faster... And mercs lose an oh-crap heal and gain a smaller spammable heal?

 

In effect, the sorc change could overall lessen the healing output of the sorc in a long battle.

 

The dps merc change will allow the merc to sit off to the side and give some limited support healing but loses an on-the-run instant heal. Unless I missed something?

 

Anyway, if this happens, the dps merc will still be in the same boat of inability to survive any type of focus. Their biggest problem is totally ignored. As is the healing merc.

 

I am surprised they actually think they need to nerf some of the healing output on the healing mercs instant no-cost heal though. It's already pretty crappy?

 

I believe the change to the 6 piece set bonus for PVP set lowering the cooldown by 3 seconds on kolto waves is to stop ops from using the 2 piece bonus set from PVE that gives +15% to recuperative nanotech (3 targets healed AE).

 

Right now, most ops in PVP mix the PVP set with 4 pieces and use 2 pieces from the PVE set because the 1 second cooldown for kolto cloud was not as beneficial as the bonus to that 2 set. I am curious as to if this change will change ops preference to using the pve set fro the two piece bonus.

 

All the theorycrafting is fun. But, don't complain on forums before trying it. All of you, if you care enough to create posts on the changes, log into PTS try it, and then give your opinion on how it goes gamewise.

 

We all know metrics and theorycrafting is useful to get an idea of how things MIGHT will be, but until you get in the game and try it, it's not fair to judge or assume anything.

 

im sorry but again... how do you run out of resources on a sorc? i never do on mine.

plus you wont have to consider they didnt just raise the cost but also the effectiveness... its a net zero differential most likely and ian increase to burst healing at the simplest levels.

[cs_zoltan]

That doesn't happen instantly. Sever Force and Weaken Mind don't tick constantly.

That doesn't matter at the end of the day.

And getting 8 people to consume all Deathmarks is nigh impossible. Put the argument aside for a moment, since you acknowledge that the max result is impractical. Even with 4 it's is very unlikely they will eat all the Deathmarks.

That's true, but I can't predict what enemies you face so every calculation like that is obviously just a theoretical maximum.

 

We're getting to the point where we're arguing about the argument so I will walk away from that at this point. I apologize if I misread your post.

Well we are both at fault here, you snapped at me, I attacked back. Apology accepted, and I aplogoize too.

[Glower]

So you're crying because you don't have a HEAL2FULL. Will you cry about any buff if it doesn't make you god-mode?

 

And also, who said anything about 50k health pools?

 

Any spammable incombat heal is great for healing between fights to tide you over until you can get out of combat.

 

I can do fairly good damage, about 900-1mil offheals (not just my char, but almost everyone in my team!) on my dps sorc with 3 healing skills. And this is before 3.3. Again - i can do it as dps... Try to explain that.

 

Also "spammable" lol, with 100 energy and no energy reductions from healing tree. Good luck!

 

And try to offheal your team members on dps merc. Especially to full health.

[TUXs]

And of course the kolto shot nerf.

That's the one that infuriates me. It was a worthless heal to begin with...and they nerf it? What the hell are they thinking? I'm pretty sure my 1.8k heal every 1.5 seconds, while doing no damage at all, wasn't an issue...

Edited June 4, 2015 by TUXs

[AlrikFassbauer]

im sorry but again... how do you run out of resources on a sorc? i never do on mine.

 

Which spec ?