No more cover points for Agents / Smugglers?

[mmmbuddah]

I just recently noticed that with SoR , BW seems to have completely forgotten about cover points, like the areas where you actually roll to cover. Now, I know some people didn't like those, but for me, it was one of the more attractive reasons I actually started a gunslinger / sniper in the first place. Was there some sort of post from the devs saying "oh hey, we decided to take away an entire aspect from agents / smugglers because of X reason" anytime in the past that I seem to have missed? Or are they really getting - THAT - lazy now that they are actually leaving it consciously out?

[Suromir]

no they didn't actually say they were purposely not putting in "cover points" for agents/smuggs anymore.

 

But they did say that those points no longer offer any benefit over just "taking cover" in place (I believe ACTUAL environmental cover gave more of a defense bonus)

 

it is a shame if they're not putting things in for those that like them. I never used them and perhaps that's one of their little "statistics" gathered and saw not many used em. Who knows.

 

either way their aesthetic at best. You're not really losing anything (gameplay wise) by them not being there.

[BjoernR]

I wish they would grant a better defense than the static cover, looks just so awesome.

[mmmbuddah]

no they didn't actually say they were purposely not putting in "cover points" for agents/smuggs anymore.

 

But they did say that those points no longer offer any benefit over just "taking cover" in place (I believe ACTUAL environmental cover gave more of a defense bonus)

 

it is a shame if they're not putting things in for those that like them. I never used them and perhaps that's one of their little "statistics" gathered and saw not many used em. Who knows.

 

either way their aesthetic at best. You're not really losing anything (gameplay wise) by them not being there.

 

But I am actually losing something. This was one of the original reasons I played those classes, because I knew they could take cover behind things, making it slightly more realistic. I mean, this is just another example of BW getting lazier and lazier. It is a mechanic in the game, and it served its purpose. Now they just completely took it away though, it's just sad really.

[Suromir]

But I am actually losing something. This was one of the original reasons I played those classes, because I knew they could take cover behind things, making it slightly more realistic. I mean, this is just another example of BW getting lazier and lazier. It is a mechanic in the game, and it served its purpose. Now they just completely took it away though, it's just sad really.

 

I said "gameplay" wise. i.e. mechanically. I didn't say you weren't losing anything as a whole and why I specified "gameplay" wise..and mentioned it's a shame for those that liked it.

[Raphael_diSanto]

I suspect their statistics showed that very few people used them.

 

Operatives and Scoundrels aren't supposed to be in cover anyway, and since Snipers and Gunslingers come with their own portable shield, my suspicion is that most people used that, because it makes for more flexible and accurate battlefield positioning to avoid the dreaded "You cannot see your target" which happened entirely too frequently with environmental in-cover preset locations.

 

That said, I'm sorry to see it go. Watching my scoundrel roll and vault over 30 feet of obstacled terrain in an improbably acrobatic leap (not to mention the vertical offset one could also achieve) that would make any force leap-enabled Force user jealous was always hilarious.

 

I am not sure how long it took to go through and predefine all the cover points in a map, or how the engine figured it out, but deadlines are deadlines, and they may simply have decided - for Ziost - that the overlords were breathing down their neck and someone didn't want to put in the overtime to enable those cover points.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto

[IsserWoloch]

The people saying that you don't lose anything mechanics wise through cover point removal are wrong. I don't even play sniper, but if someone is standing near a cover point, rolling into it is a great way to close distance. Ditto if your trying to get away from someone. It's a small thing, but sad to see another little trick falling by the wayside.

[Cedia]

If you target an enemy, the cover points and green man rolling points become visible.

[Orizuru]

I always hated the cover points. They would often result in pulling before I had a chance to precast Snipe or Ambush. I always used the Cover In Place option instead to ensure I took cover where I wanted to avoid unintended pulls.

[mmmbuddah]

If you target an enemy, the cover points and green man rolling points become visible.

 

On all content PRE SoR, yes, they do, on all content since SoR, they don't, I tested it quite thoroughly today. They could have easily implemented this AS they were developing, it would be as easy as pie, but like I said, this seems to be part of the slippery slope I have been seeing lately where BW is just skating by with bare minimum effort.

[Sarfux]

I actually...agree on this O.o

 

I wish there were cover points EVERYWHERE, even more places than there are now. I dont use the automated system I bound my f key to take cover in place and use my own cover but I have mastered the other way now. I have 3 snipers in addition to my operatives and I MUST say it is very, very cool sometimes to "roll in, take out targets, roll to another area, take out targets, roll away" it's really cool!

[mmmbuddah]

I always hated the cover points. They would often result in pulling before I had a chance to precast Snipe or Ambush. I always used the Cover In Place option instead to ensure I took cover where I wanted to avoid unintended pulls.

 

You could easily disable it, but the option was there for people who enjoyed it. Now they are saying "screw the people that used it", pretty much.

[mmmbuddah]

I actually...agree on this O.o

 

I wish there were cover points EVERYWHERE, even more places than there are now. I dont use the automated system I bound my f key to take cover in place and use my own cover but I have mastered the other way now. I have 3 snipers in addition to my operatives and I MUST say it is very, very cool sometimes to "roll in, take out targets, roll to another area, take out targets, roll away" it's really cool!

 

Exactly. The fact that they made a conscious decision to not implement a mechanic that has been there, a UNIQUE mechanic to the smuggler / agent class, since launch is very worrying. I know scoundrels and operatives TECHNICALLY weren't supposed to use it, but you could use it in story mode just to change things up.

[Max_Killjoy]

The stinking "combat roll" never made sense anyway... and yet all of a sudden, you had supposedly-trained and/or experience fighters doing clown-moves in the middle of combat in all sorts of games... GoW, ME3, SWTOR, and others.

[mmmbuddah]

The stinking "combat roll" never made sense anyway... and yet all of a sudden, you had supposedly-trained and/or experience fighters doing clown-moves in the middle of combat in all sorts of games... GoW, ME3, SWTOR, and others.

 

Yet the 20 meter roll that snipers / gunslingers does?

[Cedia]

On all content PRE SoR, yes, they do, on all content since SoR, they don't, I tested it quite thoroughly today. They could have easily implemented this AS they were developing, it would be as easy as pie, but like I said, this seems to be part of the slippery slope I have been seeing lately where BW is just skating by with bare minimum effort.

 

That really sucks. Guess I won't be taking my sniper to any new content.

[OddballEasyEight]

But I am actually losing something. This was one of the original reasons I played those classes, because I knew they could take cover behind things, making it slightly more realistic. I mean, this is just another example of BW getting lazier and lazier. It is a mechanic in the game, and it served its purpose. Now they just completely took it away though, it's just sad really.

 

It's not really "lazy" if their statistics tell them that hardly anyone is using them.

 

It's simply more effective to not waste resources on implementing something that hardly anyone uses.

 

In fact, I haven't seen anyone use them since... well, since the first year of the game, to be honest.

Well, I still see low-level players do it, but once they get the shield, they just plop that down anywhere instead of rolling into cover.

 

Sure, it looked cool, but if hardly anyone uses it, there's no point in putting it in.

[ludoviccb]

 

either way their aesthetic at best. You're not really losing anything (gameplay wise) by them not being there.

 

It's false. You lose 2 things gameplay wise :

1 - you lose a roll that get you in position and can cover up to 20m

2 - you lose 100% ranged defense from the targets that you are in position if you aren't doing any action (hiding behind cover)

The second ability is usefull in a close fight when you are waiting for a cooldown or your energy is low and you are attacked only by ranged. You can wait in cover and start attacking again. On my gunslinger, I can wait until my self heal max my HP for a few champion fights on Makeb. It enable me to solo those alone instead of in a group.

[Max_Killjoy]

Yet the 20 meter roll that snipers / gunslingers does?

 

What? No, of course it doesn't make sense.

 

How are you even getting that out of what I posted?

[Etikofe]

It's false. You lose 2 things gameplay wise :

1 - you lose a roll that get you in position and can cover up to 20m

2 - you lose 100% ranged defense from the targets that you are in position if you aren't doing any action (hiding behind cover)

The second ability is usefull in a close fight when you are waiting for a cooldown or your energy is low and you are attacked only by ranged. You can wait in cover and start attacking again. On my gunslinger, I can wait until my self heal max my HP for a few champion fights on Makeb. It enable me to solo those alone instead of in a group.

 

All of this plus if roll is on cool down it was nice when swarmed by melee.

[mmmbuddah]

It's not really "lazy" if their statistics tell them that hardly anyone is using them.

 

It's simply more effective to not waste resources on implementing something that hardly anyone uses.

 

In fact, I haven't seen anyone use them since... well, since the first year of the game, to be honest.

Well, I still see low-level players do it, but once they get the shield, they just plop that down anywhere instead of rolling into cover.

 

Sure, it looked cool, but if hardly anyone uses it, there's no point in putting it in.

 

Really, you are really saying this required RESOURCES? They simply had to add a static cover spot while developing the area. It takes less time than making a cup of coffee. I can say the exact opposite, I saw people using it all the time from RotHC and before. The reason you don't see anyone using it now? Because it doesn't exist. This is beyond lazy, I can not believe you are actually defending it.

[mmmbuddah]

It's false. You lose 2 things gameplay wise :

1 - you lose a roll that get you in position and can cover up to 20m

2 - you lose 100% ranged defense from the targets that you are in position if you aren't doing any action (hiding behind cover)

The second ability is usefull in a close fight when you are waiting for a cooldown or your energy is low and you are attacked only by ranged. You can wait in cover and start attacking again. On my gunslinger, I can wait until my self heal max my HP for a few champion fights on Makeb. It enable me to solo those alone instead of in a group.

 

Thank you, like I said, this is further evidence that BW is skating by with minimal effort. I mean really, what is next? What will they take out because a percentage of players don't use it?

[FalmeseReb]

Well considering they don't even let you pvp on ziost on pvp servers bioware has thrown all their cards in with casual levelers that play exclusively jedi and sith classes I guess? This is just one more thing they have given up on. I remember before release and in early alphas they had standing cover points in the game, not just the crouching ones.

[Aumvaar]

I'm with the OP.

[mmmbuddah]

Well considering they don't even let you pvp on ziost on pvp servers bioware has thrown all their cards in with casual levelers that play exclusively jedi and sith classes I guess? This is just one more thing they have given up on. I remember before release and in early alphas they had standing cover points in the game, not just the crouching ones.

 

I mean, it literally is a single mouse click, like placing a power up on the map. It takes literally one second to place a single one, and if they were to add it as they went along, it wouldn't be any extra effort at all. I mean, what happens when we get ( if we do ever get one ) a new warzone map? Are they not gonna have them there? That would be catastrophic for snipers and gunslingers whose roll is on cool down!