No more cover points for Agents / Smugglers?

[OddballEasyEight]

Really, you are really saying this required RESOURCES? They simply had to add a static cover spot while developing the area. It takes less time than making a cup of coffee. I can say the exact opposite, I saw people using it all the time from RotHC and before. The reason you don't see anyone using it now? Because it doesn't exist. This is beyond lazy, I can not believe you are actually defending it.

 

You know this because you are well versed in developing the Hero engine?

 

Oh, wait, you're not.

 

So you're just making that up.

 

As for your claim that people were using it "all the time" from RotHC and before, I don't really belive you on that one. Because it doesn't mesh with my own personal experience.

[OddballEasyEight]

It's false. You lose 2 things gameplay wise :

1 - you lose a roll that get you in position and can cover up to 20m

2 - you lose 100% ranged defense from the targets that you are in position if you aren't doing any action (hiding behind cover)

The second ability is usefull in a close fight when you are waiting for a cooldown or your energy is low and you are attacked only by ranged. You can wait in cover and start attacking again. On my gunslinger, I can wait until my self heal max my HP for a few champion fights on Makeb. It enable me to solo those alone instead of in a group.

 

1 - yeah, that's a bit cheaty though

2 - not any longer. The shield now gives the same benefits as being in static cover.

[JamagsAwesome]

Uhh... My main is a 'slinger, and I've used cover points in several places across Yavin 4, at least. For example, the Imperial guard Academy, the little pits with enemies or Daily Mission objectives in them? Those have cover points. They're pointing away from what you would be shooting at, but they have them. They're not gone, just not there as much. They were kind of cool, I admit, and I wish we had more of them.

[MaximusRex]

Yeah, its been great not getting stuck on useless crap they had to stick all over that no one used anyhow.

[mmmbuddah]

You know this because you are well versed in developing the Hero engine?

 

Oh, wait, you're not.

 

So you're just making that up.

 

As for your claim that people were using it "all the time" from RotHC and before, I don't really belive you on that one. Because it doesn't mesh with my own personal experience.

 

It doesn't matter what engine you are using, I have developed maps for other games with dev kits, and this is the kind of thing that requires a single mouse click. It is a simple drag and drop, it isn't like they have to develop an entire vista. This is exactly what I am talking about with the BW defense force. No matter what it is, if you criticize, you are wrong , and know nothing. It is no more difficult than putting in a speed boost, a spawn point, or a power up in general. If you have designed ANY form of maps for ANY game you would know that.

 

Also, because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That is kinda like saying, if a tree falls in the forest, it doesn't make a sound, because I wasn't there to hear it. You aren't everywhere, all at once.

Edited May 19, 2015 by mmmbuddah

[mmmbuddah]

Yeah, its been great not getting stuck on useless crap they had to stick all over that no one used anyhow.

 

All you had to do was hit shift+ F, or disable the roll option. It was an option, if you didn't like it, you could shut it off. Now though, you cannot turn it on, if you like it.

[mmmbuddah]

Uhh... My main is a 'slinger, and I've used cover points in several places across Yavin 4, at least. For example, the Imperial guard Academy, the little pits with enemies or Daily Mission objectives in them? Those have cover points. They're pointing away from what you would be shooting at, but they have them. They're not gone, just not there as much. They were kind of cool, I admit, and I wish we had more of them.

 

I literally just ran around all of Yavin and could not take cover on a damned thing. Where was this spot? And are there enemies there for me to be able to even do it?

[Flintfire]

Yeah, I play sniper/operative in both pve/pvp and tbh in pvp, esp on my sniper I will look to pick a place with a little cover. That extra protection can save your life.

 

And for my operative I use it as an extra roll to get behind someone. Or if I am facing, say, a sniper, and am out of range, ill roll behind cover quickly so they miss their harder hits until I can close distance.

 

It is often ignored but a good player will utilize every option available, and cover is one of those.

[mmmbuddah]

Yeah, I play sniper/operative in both pve/pvp and tbh in pvp, esp on my sniper I will look to pick a place with a little cover. That extra protection can save your life.

 

And for my operative I use it as an extra roll to get behind someone. Or if I am facing, say, a sniper, and am out of range, ill roll behind cover quickly so they miss their harder hits until I can close distance.

 

It is often ignored but a good player will utilize every option available, and cover is one of those.

 

Well said. I don't understand how people can be against options that ARE ALREADY in game , which can be turned off if you do not like them. Baffling

[OddballEasyEight]

It doesn't matter what engine you are using, I have developed maps for other games with dev kits, and this is the kind of thing that requires a single mouse click. It is a simple drag and drop, it isn't like they have to develop an entire vista. This is exactly what I am talking about with the BW defense force. No matter what it is, if you criticize, you are wrong , and know nothing. It is no more difficult than putting in a speed boost, a spawn point, or a power up in general. If you have designed ANY form of maps for ANY game you would know that.

 

Also, because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That is kinda like saying, if a tree falls in the forest, it doesn't make a sound, because I wasn't there to hear it. You aren't everywhere, all at once.

 

I love how people always go to the "bioware defense force" card whenever someone disagrees with their complaints on these forums

 

Sure, it may "only" be a mouseclick (but to be honest, even if it was, it would still be more than "just a mouse click". They'd have to pick the correct stance since some are standing and some are crouching, and they'd have to position it correctly, and they'd have to make sure it was facing the right direction. At least.), but it's still ALOT of mouseclicks to place those all around the area.

 

As for me not seeing them, sure... if we're using your analogy, it's definately possible that a tree falls in the woods and I don't hear it... but if I spend several years in the woods and never see a single tree fall, I can say with certainty, that falling trees are not common.

[Raphael_diSanto]

I hear, Oddball

 

Mostly I love armchair developers who obviously know everything there is to know about how BW create content.

[mmmbuddah]

I love how people always go to the "bioware defense force" card whenever someone disagrees with their complaints on these forums

 

Sure, it may "only" be a mouseclick (but to be honest, even if it was, it would still be more than "just a mouse click". They'd have to pick the correct stance since some are standing and some are crouching, and they'd have to position it correctly, and they'd have to make sure it was facing the right direction. At least.), but it's still ALOT of mouseclicks to place those all around the area.

 

As for me not seeing them, sure... if we're using your analogy, it's definately possible that a tree falls in the woods and I don't hear it... but if I spend several years in the woods and never see a single tree fall, I can say with certainty, that falling trees are not common.

 

Obviously you have never used a dev kit in your life to add things like this. If you used the one for gears of war back in the day, you would know it is much easier than you are describing. You are just being a BW apologist now.

[mmmbuddah]

I hear, Oddball

 

Mostly I love armchair developers who obviously know everything there is to know about how BW create content.

 

I have used dev kits for the unreal engine, for all the Halo games, and for both starcraft games, adding a cover point is peanuts, once they have the map done, or part of the map done, it is as simple as adding the cover point, turning the cover point in the proper direction, and placing it. It is no different than adding a spawn point. Again, peanuts.

Edited May 31, 2015 by mmmbuddah

[OddballEasyEight]

Obviously you have never used a dev kit in your life to add things like this. If you used the one for gears of war back in the day, you would know it is much easier than you are describing. You are just being a BW apologist now.

 

I've been modding games since the days of Rainbow Six (the original), so don't give me that crap.

 

You should know as well as I do that every engine is different.

Some are incredibly laborous to do anything in and you have no clue how hard their version of the hero engine is to work with.

That said, even if it was as easy as clicking on a spot on the map and the engine actually took care of the exact placement, direction and stance, you'd still be looking at thousands of clicks on ziost alone.

That's hardly "a breeze" to implement.

 

You're just a stubborn hater now

[mmmbuddah]

I've been modding games since the days of Rainbow Six (the original), so don't give me that crap.

 

You should know as well as I do that every engine is different.

Some are incredibly laborous to do anything in and you have no clue how hard their version of the hero engine is to work with.

That said, even if it was as easy as clicking on a spot on the map and the engine actually took care of the exact placement, direction and stance, you'd still be looking at thousands of clicks on ziost alone.

That's hardly "a breeze" to implement.

 

You're just a stubborn hater now

 

lol. With all three of those dev kits it is a simple process that if done while developing the level reduces the time it takes to implement. Say they added a fallen log to the map, after that log was added, they add the cover point. If they did that they wouldn't have to spend oodles of time placing after they finished the entire map. All three of those dev kits are completely different, but you are telling me that the hero engine is SO complicated they cant click three times, place, and rotate a cover point because it is oh so difficult, please.

Edited May 31, 2015 by mmmbuddah

[dacentabaal]

OP seems you're turning into the latest spam troller on these forums who "always has to be right" on all his posts and answers and doesn't listen to reason on anything that's common sense...

 

But back on topic, if you're a Scoundrel/Operative and you are using cover you aren't playing your class properly, if you're a Gunslinger/Sniper.. well you don't need it as you have you auto cover that pops and again if you rely on covers outside your auto pop one then you aren't playing your class properly

[mmmbuddah]

OP seems you're turning into the latest spam troller on these forums who "always has to be right" on all his posts and answers and doesn't listen to reason on anything that's common sense...

 

But back on topic, if you're a Scoundrel/Operative and you are using cover you aren't playing your class properly, if you're a Gunslinger/Sniper.. well you don't need it as you have you auto cover that pops and again if you rely on covers outside your auto pop one then you aren't playing your class properly

 

It was just a matter of time before someone came in and said this. "You point out flaws, hacks, cheats in the game more than once a week, you are a spam troller". I give credit where credit is due, and I criticize where I see flaws, it is as simple as that, do not like it, too bad, not my problem.

 

The guy is right that if they made the ENTIRE map and add on without adding them in while they go, it would take a while to add them all in afterward, it would still be an easy task, but it would take a lot of time which could be spent elsewhere. That is 100% true, but if they would do it as they went, it would be an easy task, and would take minimal effort / time.

 

As for your "you are doing it wrong comment", you are correct, in pvp, if you are taking cover as an operative and scoundrel, you are doing it wrong, but in pve, it is nice to have some variety, and the fact that people like you crusade against that is just silly, because if you did not like it you could simply turn it off. It is also BEYOND handy and useful for there to be cover points for snipers and gunslingers in pvp, it keeps melee players guessing in tiny enclosed areas like the west and east nodes of alderaan, they can bevery advantageous there, and again, if you didn't like them, you can disable them.

Edited May 31, 2015 by mmmbuddah

[Aumvaar]

But back on topic, if you're a Scoundrel/Operative and you are using cover you aren't playing your class properly, if you're a Gunslinger/Sniper.. well you don't need it as you have you auto cover that pops and again if you rely on covers outside your auto pop one then you aren't playing your class properly

 

Then it would make sense to replace the Take Cover ability with something that is intended to actually be used.

[FerkWork]

Then it would make sense to replace the Take Cover ability with something that is intended to actually be used.

 

Because back in the day the base Class had more abilities as to give a sample of the AC. The point of cover points was too give a feel of Sniper AC and minorly to give some spy feel to the early levels. This why Maras had Retaliate, PT Unload, Op Exprosive Probe. It's an anachronism that is just harder to remove than to keep it in the game compared to removing say Unload.

[FerkWork]

It was just a matter of time before someone came in and said this. "You point out flaws, hacks, cheats in the game more than once a week, you are a spam troller". I give credit where credit is due, and I criticize where I see flaws, it is as simple as that, do not like it, too bad, not my problem.

 

The guy is right that if they made the ENTIRE map and add on without adding them in while they go, it would take a while to add them all in afterward, it would still be an easy task, but it would take a lot of time which could be spent elsewhere. That is 100% true, but if they would do it as they went, it would be an easy task, and would take minimal effort / time.

 

As for your "you are doing it wrong comment", you are correct, in pvp, if you are taking cover as an operative and scoundrel, you are doing it wrong, but in pve, it is nice to have some variety, and the fact that people like you crusade against that is just silly, because if you did not like it you could simply turn it off. It is also BEYOND handy and useful for there to be cover points for snipers and gunslingers in pvp, it keeps melee players guessing in tiny enclosed areas like the west and east nodes of alderaan, they can bevery advantageous there, and again, if you didn't like them, you can disable them.

 

If you are taking cover in PvE you are doing it wrong too.

[mmmbuddah]

If you are taking cover in PvE you are doing it wrong too.

 

If am taking cover in the story quests, you know, using a mechanic that is IN game for FUN because I like VARIETY, that is my choice, and if you don't like that choice, you can disable it. I cannot however ENABLE it if they take it away. Of course I won't be taking cover in operations or flashpoints, but while questing? Why not? It is a nice change of pace, and the fact that people are against variety is just ludicrous.

[FerkWork]

If am taking cover in the story quests, you know, using a mechanic that is IN game for FUN because I like VARIETY, that is my choice, and if you don't like that choice, you can disable it. I cannot however ENABLE it if they take it away. Of course I won't be taking cover in operations or flashpoints, but while questing? Why not? It is a nice change of pace, and the fact that people are against variety is just ludicrous.

 

Well BW has decided it isn't necessary to put them in for the reasons stated in this thread. Either deal with it or move on.

 

For me I would just remove the cover points and make cover/entrench a Sniper perk only,

[Sarfux]

You know this because you are well versed in developing the Hero engine?

 

Oh, wait, you're not.

 

So you're just making that up.

 

As for your claim that people were using it "all the time" from RotHC and before, I don't really belive you on that one. Because it doesn't mesh with my own personal experience.

 

I'm not everybody, but I have 12 Agents (can't get enough of them!!) and I use it "all the time" O.O I wish they were absolutely LITTERED on the battlefield of all planets. Every couple of meters should be one! I LOVE cover spots! I can't tell you how immersive it is to roll into a spot and play "sniper" with somebody while you are low health and they can't hit you because you are behind a box or a crate. It's A LOT of fun.

 

And I have worked a lot with the HeroEngine and I can say yes they do have to make separate mechanics for the roll system. They just didn't work on NEW ones. They just have the existing ones but didn't put new ones in for future content as much as they were in the original content.

 

No need to be so salty oddball

Edited May 31, 2015 by Sarfux

[Sarfux]

If am taking cover in the story quests, you know, using a mechanic that is IN game for FUN because I like VARIETY, that is my choice, and if you don't like that choice, you can disable it. I cannot however ENABLE it if they take it away. Of course I won't be taking cover in operations or flashpoints, but while questing? Why not? It is a nice change of pace, and the fact that people are against variety is just ludicrous.

I just am here to say also mmmbuddah. For all the bashing that is going on against you for your opinions and preferences, Agent is my favorite class in the game and have a ton of them. It's my most played class ever. And I support your idea 100 percent! I am behind you buddy

 

More cover points! \o/

[NeuroniaSW]

I just am here to say also mmmbuddah. For all the bashing that is going on against you for your opinions and preferences, Agent is my favorite class in the game and have a ton of them. It's my most played class ever. And I support your idea 100 percent! I am behind you buddy

 

More cover points! \o/

 

Wanted to ^5 this. I love cover and it's the big reason my main is a Sniper. Having to engage hand to hand sullies the experience to a point. I mean...I'll do it if classes demand it, don't get me wrong. But making someone's head explode like an overripe pineapple while I'm hiding behind a box and in relative safety? Good times....real good times...