Heal Merc and his Oh-**** Button

[Underpowered]

The mando/merc community doesn't know what they're talking about. All they care about is how the situation affects them. No foresight, no interest in the bigger picture.

 

Could you please elaborate on how buffing Mando heal survivability in PvP has a negative impact on the bigger picture?

[Nebdar]

i would propose small steps allow us to activate chaff flare, shield, kolto overload while stunned/incapacitated and increase the damage reduction from shield by 5% and see how it will do...

[Osxoba]

Could you please elaborate on how buffing Mando heal survivability in PvP has a negative impact on the bigger picture?

 

He won't but I will. You see, this would be "bad" because then people wouldn't have their easily shutdown, free kills anymore.

[Osxoba]

i would propose small steps allow us to activate chaff flare, shield, kolto overload while stunned/incapacitated and increase the damage reduction from shield by 5% and see how it will do...

 

I really think it was a major oversight issue by the devs to not let mercs activate Kolto Overload while stunned, yet pts can. I think it was a horrible decision to only let PTs have that ability.

[fujeotwo]

Could you please elaborate on how buffing Mando heal survivability in PvP has a negative impact on the bigger picture?

 

Because buffs just lead to more buffs for other classes when people complain that healer Mercs are too hard to kill, perpetuating this constant arms race between classes.

 

Cramming DCD's down our throats and making survivability the responsibility of the individual does not promote teamwork in a team-based setting.

 

Balancing PvP around 3v1 is just plain stupid. Get your teammates to help you survive, that's their job. Protect the healer.

 

That's pretty much the jist of it.

[Osxoba]

Because buffs just lead to more buffs for other classes when people complain that healer Mercs are too hard to kill, perpetuating this constant arms race between classes.

This is true to an extent. Large buffs are the ones that cause the issues. No one is asking for Mercs to have Enraged Saber Shroud, nor would an anti focus ability cause issues if there is a trade off of reduced healing on the part of the merc. Perhaps something that buffs defense but reduces their healing, as power is diverted from kolto to armor.

Cramming DCD's down our throats and making survivability the responsibility of the individual does not promote teamwork in a team-based setting.

I think many mercs would prefer to not to be given another subpar defensive ability. In my opinion, I would prefer to see what we have be enhanced, or redesigned rather than give us a new ability.

Balancing PvP around 3v1 is just plain stupid. Get your teammates to help you survive, that's their job. Protect the healer.

Unfortunately, unless you pvp in Group Ranked, which consists of a minority of PVPers, this advice is futile. Balancing around 3v1 is a bad way to design. However, a class also should not be designed around requiring teammates to carry you in order to be useful. Which would be just as bad as balancing around 3v1, just in a different frame of reference.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Osxoba

[Mirthadrond]

I don't have a particular issue with an Oh S*%@! button for healer mercs. The 2 DPS disciplines don't get it though.

[Osxoba]

I don't have a particular issue with an Oh S*%@! button for healer mercs. The 2 DPS disciplines don't get it though.

 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but why not? Both Sorcs and Ops have with all three of their disciplines.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Osxoba

[fujeotwo]

This is true to an extent. Large buffs are the ones that cause the issues. No one is asking for Mercs to have Enraged Saber Shroud, nor would an anti focus ability cause issues if there is a trade off of reduced healing on the part of the merc. Perhaps something that buffs defense but reduces their healing, as power is diverted from kolto to armor.

 

All anti-focus abilities have trade-offs. And mercs will take a trade-off for their anti-focus. And then you'll probably die just as fast when the anti-focus wears off because your team will not be able to kill anyone in the time your anti-focus runs out because the survivability of certain classes is already too high.

 

I think many mercs would prefer to not to be given another subpar defensive ability. In my opinion, I would prefer to see what we have be enhanced, or redesigned rather than give us a new ability.

 

Except practically every merc on these forums ARE asking for another DCD.

 

Unfortunately, unless you pvp in Group Ranked, which consists of a minority of PVPers, this advice is futile. Balancing around 3v1 is a bad way to design. However, a class also should not be designed around requiring teammates to carry you in order to be useful. Which would be just as bad as balancing around 3v1, just in a different frame of reference.

 

Balancing around bad teammates is also plain stupid. And supporting teammates isn't carrying them. You keep the healer alive, the healer keeps you alive. You might as well have said all DPS and Tanks are bad and the healers are carrying them all.

 

Ranked PvP is a team effort. 4 players vs 4 players. An individual player in a 4 player team does require the support of his/her other teammates, because there are 4 players on the other side who want to kill him/her. Without support from the other 3 players on his/her team, the game turns into a 4v1 (minus the guy your teammates are zerging). Balancing classes around the inevitability of a 4v1 or 3v1 is again, just plain stupid. Otherwise, why have team based PvP at all?

[ZygomaticBone]

I disagree with Fuj. Sure your team members can support you. They can tank swap and heal you. This does not change the fact that as a merc you are a huge liability that is very vulnerable to enemy aggression that will die at a faster rate. Your damage output does not compensate for this at all.

 

You even admit it's survivability is very low. Thus, there is no reason not to take a jugg for DPs or an operative for heals.

Edited May 15, 2015 by ZygomaticBone

[KalElc]

They should copy the hunter from WoW and watch the years roll from people's faces but for real we need like and antimatter assult plasma ultra heatseeker missle replacement if we can get the super swap target move. Or you know... Like a 5s stealth. Would be nice. Just saying. It would simpliy solve problems. Ok.

 

Imagine mercs with Force Cloak . That would be priceless and riot ofc. - Actually that docent sound so bad, or?

Edited May 15, 2015 by KalElc

[fujeotwo]

I disagree with Fuj. Sure your team members can support you. They can tank swap and heal you. This does not change the fact that as a merc you are a huge liability that is very vulnerable to enemy aggression that will die at a faster rate. Your damage output does not compensate for this at all.

 

You even admit it's survivability is very low. Thus, there is no reason not to take a jugg for DPs or an operative for heals.

 

That isn't a problem on the merc's side. Certain classes (mostly melee) are doing too much damage to compensate for a supposed lack of uptime.

[Osxoba]

All anti-focus abilities have trade-offs. And mercs will take a trade-off for their anti-focus. And then you'll probably die just as fast when the anti-focus wears off because your team will not be able to kill anyone in the time your anti-focus runs out because the survivability of certain classes is already too high.

Yet the anti focus abilities of sorcs and ops don't result in them immediately dying. Seems to me there is an issue when all but one healing class can escape without immediately dying.

 

 

Balancing around bad teammates is also plain stupid. And supporting teammates isn't carrying them. You keep the healer alive, the healer keeps you alive. You might as well have said all DPS and Tanks are bad and the healers are carrying them all.

It is considered carrying, when the person is shut down easily and killed within a few GCDs. If a sorc receives that kind of pressure, they have force barrier. If an operative receives that kind of pressure, they have cloaking screen/evasion. If a merc receives that kind of pressure, they have Kolto Overload and Shield, which can easily be bypassed with focus.

 

Ranked PvP is a team effort. 4 players vs 4 players. An individual player in a 4 player team does require the support of his/her other teammates, because there are 4 players on the other side who want to kill him/her. Without support from the other 3 players on his/her team, the game turns into a 4v1 (minus the guy your teammates are zerging). Balancing classes around the inevitability of a 4v1 or 3v1 is again, just plain stupid. Otherwise, why have team based PvP at all?

Group Ranked is a team effort. Solo Ranked is chaos. Everything is reasonably viable in Group, and even then, mercs still don't have the anti focus that sorcs and ops do.

It is inevitable that 3v1 will occur during pvp on a healer, and yet again the other two classes have ways to survive that temporarily, and yet the merc does not.

What should we balance around? 1v1, 8v8, 2v2, 2v1? In either of these cases, the other two healing ACs still have greater survivability.

[fujeotwo]

Perhaps the problem is Solo Ranked and not mercs? Hmmmm?

[fujeotwo]

Perhaps the problem is Solo Ranked and not mercs? Hmmmm?

 

Personally I would nerf all DCD's, remove all stuns except operative's, and buff peeling vie removing the cooldowns on all CC (mezzes for the *******). Survivability becomes a co-ordinated team effort, stunlocking is gone, and everyone has fun.

[ForceWelder]

You know how you counter the Merc / Mando's lack of an "oh, $#%$" ability?

 

Oddly enough you queue up in group with three other Merc / Mandos.

 

With thee combined set of utilities, a four man cammando / merc team would be defestating. Separately, this group of utilitiies is quite weak. But with three other players having them, it could be quite formitable. All your team has to do is stick together and focus target while spreading the love from the combined offheals and CC.

 

The problem?

 

Have often does 4 commandos get together to actually see how truly powerful they are combined?

[DariusCalera]

You know how you counter the Merc / Mando's lack of an "oh, $#%$" ability?

 

Oddly enough you queue up in group with three other Merc / Mandos.

 

With thee combined set of utilities, a four man cammando / merc team would be defestating. Separately, this group of utilitiies is quite weak. But with three other players having them, it could be quite formitable. All your team has to do is stick together and focus target while spreading the love from the combined offheals and CC.

 

The problem?

 

Have often does 4 commandos get together to actually see how truly powerful they are combined?

 

Not really it wouldn't be. That team would still get wrecked by pretty much any full team of toons. Only full set that I could really see them doing well against is 4 sents/maras and maybe sorcs/sages.

 

4 Shadows/Sins? They're all going to open up on one of the mercs/mandos or 2 on one and 2 on another and in either case, the merc/mando teams is at a disadvantage from the git go.

 

4 Guardians/Juggs? They're going to pretty much do the same thing and focus one down first. With their DCDs they could easily outlast a full merc/mando team.

 

4 scoundrels/operatives? Just like what would happen with the sins/shadows. Stealth in and take one out before their teammates could really do anything.

 

Don't even get me started on what a team of 4 snipers/slingers would do to a team of mercs/mandos.

[Owynyo]

Point of view from someone who actually plays a merc heal on a regular basis in solo ranked and has achieved tier1 on 2 mercs last season:

 

I often have more (sometimes much more) damage taken than the opposite healer but I still die first because I have literally no way to make the enemy dps switch target. Unless I get a lucky knockback on Orbital station / makeb mesa arena.

[klham]

I don't have a particular issue with an Oh S*%@! button for healer mercs. The 2 DPS disciplines don't get it though.

I don't follow the rationale for making it exclusive to the healing spec. Regardless of spec, the AC is the favoured focus target because it's seen (correctly) as a quick free kill that reduces the opposing team by 1 member with the least investment and risk, combined with recognition of the opportunity costs of not taking out the commando/merc right away (since they perform well if allowed to free-cast).

[Transcendent]

Cramming DCD's down our throats and making survivability the responsibility of the individual does not promote teamwork in a team-based setting.

 

Yes it does, it requires co-ordination of you and your team to burn the DCD's of any given player, so ultimately you can kill them when they've all been used.

 

We see it as Merc / Mando players all the time, downside is, for all of our DCDs, this takes about 5-20 seconds at the start of anything that has the word Arena in it.

 

No doubt you've got some smartarse comment to come back on this. Instead, how about to go away and play a Merc / Mando for a considerable length of time in PvP, then come back and say Merc / Mando players are fine (with proof - aka video of you winning consistently).

 

When you can do that, then you may actually get other players to not dismiss you as a troll.

[fujeotwo]

Yes it does, it requires co-ordination of you and your team to burn the DCD's of any given player, so ultimately you can kill them when they've all been used.

 

We see it as Merc / Mando players all the time, downside is, for all of our DCDs, this takes about 5-20 seconds at the start of anything that has the word Arena in it.

 

Here's my smart*** comment. Doesn't take much teamwork to burn through a single players DCD's beyond "Focus the X".

 

No doubt you've got some smartarse comment to come back on this. Instead, how about to go away and play a Merc / Mando for a considerable length of time in PvP, then come back and say Merc / Mando players are fine (with proof - aka video of you winning consistently).

 

When you can do that, then you may actually get other players to not dismiss you as a troll.

 

Won't stop morons from labeling anyone who disagrees with them a troll, only to fail miserably in challenging their argument.

Edited May 15, 2015 by fujeotwo

[Transcendent]

Here's my smart*** comment. Doesn't take much teamwork to burn through a single players DCD's beyond "Focus the X".

 

Ok, in response to that.

 

What happens when you focus a Sin / Shadow? What happens when you focus an Operative / Scoundrel? What happens when you focus a Sorc / Sage? What happens when you focus a Jugg / Guardian?

 

Every single one of these classes has a DCD that can force a hard switch. Literally every AC aside from Powertech / Vanguard or Merc / Mando or Sniper / Slinger has at least one DCD that forces that hard switch, without any exception.

 

- Powertech / Vanguard is in a pretty good spot right now, most of the defence is pretty much standard and they don't have to spend too many utility points to have extra survivability.

- Sniper / Slinger has the option to roll, alongside extra range (and it can definitely be argued that Arenas do not suit this class and they're in a similar situation to Merc / Mandos)

 

So, unlike those main AC, not a single DCD in Merc / Mando players abilities can force a hard switch. Can we kite? Not really, we have a weaker version of the PT / VG Hydraulic Overrides / Hold the Line as well as less range than Snipers / Slingers. Can we heal to full? Not as DPS we can't. Can we reflect damage back to the enemy or negate burst with a trollroll? Nope. Do we have a fair amount of stun immunity? Nope. Can we stealth out of combat and run away? Nope.

 

So what exactly do Merc / Mando players do? You seem to think the class is absolutely fine as it is, so how about you tell the Merc / Mando community;

 

- What do Merc / Mando players do during Arenas? How do we contribute? How are we fine in comparison to the whole meta of PvP?

 

Please, "I'm all ears".

[fujeotwo]

First it's:

 

Yes it does, it requires co-ordination of you and your team to burn the DCD's of any given player, so ultimately you can kill them when they've all been used.

 

Then all of a sudden it's:

 

What happens when you focus a Sin / Shadow? What happens when you focus an Operative / Scoundrel? What happens when you focus a Sorc / Sage? What happens when you focus a Jugg / Guardian?

 

Make up your mind.

 

So what exactly do Merc / Mando players do? You seem to think the class is absolutely fine as it is, so how about you tell the Merc / Mando community;

 

- What do Merc / Mando players do during Arenas? How do we contribute? How are we fine in comparison to the whole meta of PvP?

 

Please, "I'm all ears".

 

You realize that the entire format of arenas is broke and that other, more important mechanics have to be changed before you whinge about your own class.

[Osxoba]

You realize that the entire format of arenas is broke and that other, more important mechanics have to be changed before you whinge about your own class.

 

Which mechanics exactly need to be changed that trump any individual's concerns for balance of their class?

[Zoom_VI]

To be quite honest I think this game could use less get-out-of-jail-free abilities. This is a team game for a reason