Heal Merc and his Oh-**** Button

[JouerTue]

Point of view from someone who actually plays a merc heal on a regular basis in solo ranked and has achieved tier1 on 2 mercs last season:

 

I often have more (sometimes much more) damage taken than the opposite healer but I still die first because I have literally no way to make the enemy dps switch target. Unless I get a lucky knockback on Orbital station / makeb mesa arena.

 

this is absolutely true, all melee outspeed the class exception made for maras even with htl/ho, and only if they don't waste predation, the other healers have one h2f-purge-godbubble and offcgd self heal, the other vanish+los+h2f+purge. heavy armor doesn't compensate even shield probe, let alone static and the shield is too important to be wasted pre-applying it, after that you are stunlocked to death.

 

also it's not balancing around 3v1, it's just that focus is an extremely valid tact for 3d,1h set ups and the most rewarding if there's a merc around, like you leave juggs last..

[fujeotwo]

Which mechanics exactly need to be changed that trump any individual's concerns for balance of their class?

 

Stunlocking, constant buffs to survivability to counter stunlocking, and the locking out of half the classes in the game from arenas because of stunlocking.

 

Oh and I forgot. The lack of reliable peeling and defensive CC to prevent 3v1 situations.

Edited May 15, 2015 by fujeotwo

[WannEras]

Merc/commando healer is fine. Team imbalance in WZs is the problem.

[foxmob]

To be quite honest I think this game could use less get-out-of-jail-free abilities. This is a team game for a reason

 

definitely true. but being honest with yourself, do you think there's a chance in hell BW's going to move in that direction? It doesn't look like it to me. they seem to have almost systematically given every AC something stupid powerful. but I guess it's not really systematic cuz a couple classes keep getting left out of the party, and one or two others get crazy, unasked for stuff (seriously, fire the guy who thought giving sins 12s of stun immunity was a good idea...and then solving their kiting problem with a 30m instant mezz).

[Lhancelot]

definitely true. but being honest with yourself, do you think there's a chance in hell BW's going to move in that direction? It doesn't look like it to me. they seem to have almost systematically given every AC something stupid powerful. but I guess it's not really systematic cuz a couple classes keep getting left out of the party, and one or two others get crazy, unasked for stuff (seriously, fire the guy who thought giving sins 12s of stun immunity was a good idea...and then solving their kiting problem with a 30m instant mezz).

 

100% correct. The fact is, other classes just happen to have very effective "get out of jail free cards", and the ones who do not have other types of abilities which support them.

 

Mercs are "left out of the party" and fail miserably when focused by multiple targets. Guess what? Other classes have effective ways to manage focus by multiple targets.

 

Making blanket statements like, "oh I think the game needs less oh-crap buttons for classes" is easy to say especially when speaking from the perspective of a class that is perfectly fine now, or maybe even OP'd.

 

From a merc/commando perspective it's not really fair and it shows not just in ranked, but when the class is focused by more than one target. They get completely shut down.

[DariusCalera]

First it's:

 

 

 

Then all of a sudden it's:

 

 

 

Make up your mind.

 

What you quoted does not mean either of those have to be mutually exclusive. If your team is cycling through its focus targets and one, i.e. one of the classes named, pops its focus break your are going to switch. Unless of course that focus is a merc/mando because then they're just gonna die.

 

 

You realize that the entire format of arenas is broke and that other, more important mechanics have to be changed before you whinge about your own class.

 

Yes, arenas suck, and BW was warned that they suck and that trying to balance around them was going to suck. But they didn't listen and now we are stuck with the suck. So, since we are stuck with it, asking for classes to be viable in them is perfectly acceptable. So either the under performing classes need to be brought up, or the other classes need nerfs.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Team imbalance in WZs is the problem.

 

I agree to this sentence - but why doesn't Bioware just stop it ? That's a pure riddle to me.

[JouerTue]

100% correct. The fact is, other classes just happen to have very effective "get out of jail free cards", and the ones who do not have other types of abilities which support them.

 

Mercs are "left out of the party" and fail miserably when focused by multiple targets. Guess what? Other classes have effective ways to manage focus by multiple targets.

 

Making blanket statements like, "oh I think the game needs less oh-crap buttons for classes" is easy to say especially when speaking from the perspective of a class that is perfectly fine now, or maybe even OP'd.

 

From a merc/commando perspective it's not really fair and it shows not just in ranked, but when the class is focused by more than one target. They get completely shut down.

 

this went rampant when they raised level cap to 55, ttk kinda halved there..

[Owynyo]

I don't get how people can say that mercs do not deserve an oh **** button.

 

The opener alone in ranked warzones is hell. Sorc has stun bubble, maybe root knockback. Operatives most likely won't be the first target to be attacked on their team. Merc? You just sit there and eat 2 stuns. Have to break the 2nd stun, use 1-2 cooldowns and then it's run or die. Can't cast anything without Shield / Power Surge because people on my server actually interrupt.

 

I haven't seen another merc in solo ranked this season. Not a single one.

[foxmob]

I don't get how people can say that mercs do not deserve an oh **** button.

 

as bad as your solo life is, be thankful mercs can heal, because healing solos is in a lot better place than dps - not that either are good, but.... you get a real sense of the problem when you look a the solo leader boards and see who's worse off than merc: snipers.

 

anyway, I was looking at merc leaderboards for JC the other day, and there was ONE person with double digit wins (20). two with 8 win (high 1300s & low 1200s), and everyone else was 2 & 3 wins or less. the better of the 8 wins is a healer. I'm not familiar with the 20 winner (1460s), and my IO was the lower 8 winner. that's it. top 3 on server all below 1500 with a total of fewer than 40 wins between them.

 

I don't know what the metrics are telling BW, but they're telling me that ppl aren't even playing (the class) anymore, and that's a HUGE problem. I put ~200 games on my merc in s3 and still managed more than that on my PT. s3 was not a good time to be a merc dps either. I was still the first person focused. I still contributed more by running than fighting. I don't know what s4 was like b/c I completely skipped it, but s5 feels like a worse version of s3, and there aren't any other mercs even in the queue anymore.

[DariusCalera]

as bad as your solo life is, be thankful mercs can heal, because healing solos is in a lot better place than dps - not that either are good, but.... you get a real sense of the problem when you look a the solo leader boards and see who's worse off than merc: snipers.

 

anyway, I was looking at merc leaderboards for JC the other day, and there was ONE person with double digit wins (20). two with 8 win (high 1300s & low 1200s), and everyone else was 2 & 3 wins or less. the better of the 8 wins is a healer. I'm not familiar with the 20 winner (1460s), and my IO was the lower 8 winner. that's it. top 3 on server all below 1500 with a total of fewer than 40 wins between them.

 

I don't know what the metrics are telling BW, but they're telling me that ppl aren't even playing (the class) anymore, and that's a HUGE problem. I put ~200 games on my merc in s3 and still managed more than that on my PT. s3 was not a good time to be a merc dps either. I was still the first person focused. I still contributed more by running than fighting. I don't know what s4 was like b/c I completely skipped it, but s5 feels like a worse version of s3, and there aren't any other mercs even in the queue anymore.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure who that merc is either. As for the rest, I recognize their names and what most of them run.

 

Last season I ended up with 40+wins and 30+ losses so I cam out ahead, but I'm willing to admit that most of this wins were dependent on how many assassins were on my team. Heck, a few times the tactics I told them to use was to wait until the other teams melee opened up on me and then to drop multiple death fields on them when they were all clustered. Worked more often then not.

 

I'm not even going to bother queuing this season for one simple reason: Trying to play a merc/mando in arenas is simply no fun.

[Transcendent]

You realize that the entire format of arenas is broke and that other, more important mechanics have to be changed before you whinge about your own class.

 

Stop dodging, answer the questions in that post.

[fujeotwo]

Stop dodging, answer the questions in that post.

 

If I must.

 

Blow Energy Shield, Kolto Overload, Warzone Adrenal and Medpack at the same time to survive the stunlock, kite away with mobile Unload/Blazing Bolts after the stun wears off, stun one target to blow his break, then pop Power Surge for Concussion Charge on same target, then continue DPS'ing/healing while kiting with the rest of your toolset, and hope for the best!

 

That's what I'd do anyway.

Edited May 16, 2015 by fujeotwo

[zZeroAgent]

If I must.

 

Blow Energy Shield, Kolto Overload, Warzone Adrenal and Medpack at the same time to survive the stunlock, kite away with mobile Unload/Blazing Bolts after the stun wears off, stun one target to blow his break, then pop Power Surge for Concussion Charge on same target, then continue DPS'ing/healing while kiting with the rest of your toolset, and hope for the best!

 

That's what I'd do anyway.

 

>implying you'll only be stunned once

 

lol

 

unless you mean survive both stuns, which is hilarious. maybe you should play a merc

Edited May 16, 2015 by zZeroAgent

[fujeotwo]

>implying you'll only be stunned once

 

lol

 

unless you mean survive both stuns, which is hilarious. maybe you should play a merc

 

No I mean both stuns.

[DariusCalera]

No I mean both stuns.

 

A merc/mando won't survive both stuns.

 

Your idea is the equivalent of arm chair quarterbacking. Unless you've actually played a merc/mando in ranked matches saying what you would do, and what actually works is two different things.

 

The only one of those abilities that you've named that can really be front loaded in the expectation of a stun is KO since it has a duration of a minute. All the rest have a duration of 12-15 seconds and can easily be wasted if your timing is off.

 

Hell I've actually been stun locked and killed on my merc though KO and Energy shield.

 

But besides that name one other class that, in order to survive, has to blow all of its DCDs at once. Sins/Shadows don't, Juggs/Guardians don't, neither do maras/sents, PT/VGs, sorcs/sages. Hell, even sniper/slingers don't need to and they're down on the bottom with us.

[Transcendent]

If I must.

 

Blow Energy Shield, Kolto Overload, Warzone Adrenal and Medpack at the same time to survive the stunlock, kite away with mobile Unload/Blazing Bolts after the stun wears off, stun one target to blow his break, then pop Power Surge for Concussion Charge on same target, then continue DPS'ing/healing while kiting with the rest of your toolset, and hope for the best!

 

That's what I'd do anyway.

 

And the rest....?

 

- What do Merc / Mando players do during Arenas? How do we contribute? How are we fine in comparison to the whole meta of PvP?

 

Please, "I'm all ears".

[fujeotwo]

Man you guys really are stupid.

 

A merc/mando won't survive both stuns.

 

Your idea is the equivalent of arm chair quarterbacking. Unless you've actually played a merc/mando in ranked matches saying what you would do, and what actually works is two different things.

 

I was asked what a Merc could do in that situation, and I answered with what I do, as a Merc player, in that situation. And it has worked for me. Having said that, your response is also armchair quarterbacking.

 

The only one of those abilities that you've named that can really be front loaded in the expectation of a stun is KO since it has a duration of a minute. All the rest have a duration of 12-15 seconds and can easily be wasted if your timing is off.

 

Sorry I forget to mention in my post. I would break the first stun, and then pop all those cooldowns. I guess I'll have to be more careful in future to explain every single step I would take to survive a stunlock. And of course if I'm not being focused enough to warrant the use of every cooldown I have, then there's no problem. It doesn't work all the time, but it does work some of the time, depending on what the rest of your team is doing while you're tanking multiple DPS.

 

But besides that name one other class that, in order to survive, has to blow all of its DCDs at once. Sins/Shadows don't, Juggs/Guardians don't, neither do maras/sents, PT/VGs, sorcs/sages. Hell, even sniper/slingers don't need to and they're down on the bottom with us.

 

I don't really care what other classes would do in that situation because I don't play other classes. I play an Arsenal Merc and I work with what I've got. The stupid amount of DCD's and survivability of certain classes is one of the problems that arenas and Solo Ranked PvP has contributed to this game and in my opinion the survivability of certain classes should be nerfed before any buffs to Merc survivability are considered.

 

And the rest....?

 

Then you do your job. Kill the rest of the team if you're DPS or you heal your teammates if you're heals. Obviously.

[DariusCalera]

Sorry I forget to mention in my post. I would break the first stun, and then pop all those cooldowns. I guess I'll have to be more careful in future to explain every single step I would take to survive a stunlock. And of course if I'm not being focused enough to warrant the use of every cooldown I have, then there's no problem. It doesn't work all the time, but it does work some of the time, depending on what the rest of your team is doing while you're tanking multiple DPS.

 

Any decent player, or group of players, is just going to restun you as soon as you break the first and well before you go through the 3-4 GCDs needed to activate all of your remaining DCDs. If they're giving you the time to use all of them in between the stuns, then they probably aren't one of those decent players and you probably didn't need to break that first stun.

 

I don't really care what other classes would do in that situation because I don't play other classes. I play an Arsenal Merc and I work with what I've got. The stupid amount of DCD's and survivability of certain classes is one of the problems that arenas and Solo Ranked PvP has contributed to this game and in my opinion the survivability of certain classes should be nerfed before any buffs to Merc survivability are considered.

 

But you should care what other classes would do in that situation because it gives you an idea of how they're going to react to being focused.

 

With that being said though, I agree that there are definitely some abilities that either need to be removed or severely toned down.

[foxmob]

If I must.

 

Blow Energy Shield, Kolto Overload, Warzone Adrenal and Medpack at the same time to survive the stunlock, kite away with mobile Unload/Blazing Bolts after the stun wears off, stun one target to blow his break, then pop Power Surge for Concussion Charge on same target, then continue DPS'ing/healing while kiting with the rest of your toolset, and hope for the best!

 

That's what I'd do anyway.

 

it's possible to pre-pop KO but everything else you listed is on the gcd. you cannot do that during or between stuns unless the stuns are spaced 3 gcd apart (possible but not likely). and you really shouldn't prepop adrenal or shield unless all of your opponents are visible.

 

as an aside, because pre-popping abilities came up, I don't really understand why snipers choose to entrench at the start of a match when neither team is advancing on each other. I just say, "wait 20s for entrench to die down and global the sniper."

[Ryuku-sama]

it's possible to pre-pop KO but everything else you listed is on the gcd. you cannot do that during or between stuns unless the stuns are spaced 3 gcd apart (possible but not likely). and you really shouldn't prepop adrenal or shield unless all of your opponents are visible.

 

as an aside, because pre-popping abilities came up, I don't really understand why snipers choose to entrench at the start of a match when neither team is advancing on each other. I just say, "wait 20s for entrench to die down and global the sniper."

 

Eh??? I can't think of any DCD that is actually on the GCD... They are all off the GCD.

[Lhancelot]

One thing I notice when looking at the last tier of utilities is, if mercs could pick 4 of them they MIGHT fair decently. It's hilarious because I honestly find myself wanting 4 of the tier 3 utilities. Sadly, I can only pick 2. I think the utlities are nice for mercs, what is not nice is how limited you are in getting what you really need.

 

It's like looking in the window of your favorite shopping store from the outside, wishing you could afford that awesome outfit on the mannequin inside the glass but knowing truthfully you only can afford half of it. What do you get? The socks and shoes? The shirt and pants? No matter what you pick, you are left with half an outfit knowing you should have more.

[Transcendent]

Man you guys really are stupid.

 

I'll think you'll find otherwise, but please do continue to keep insulting players.

 

Then you do your job. Kill the rest of the team if you're DPS or you heal your teammates if you're heals. Obviously.

 

Now go answer that last part of the question and stop dodging it.

 

How are we fine in comparison to the whole meta of PvP?

.

[fujeotwo]

Now go answer that last part of the question and stop dodging it.

 

Mercs are fine as I said. They are probably the most balanced class in the game right now. After Bioware gave us mobile Unload we now pretty much have the perfect balance in survivability, mobility and output. You might notice it if you weren't so obsessed with solo ranked.

 

Mercs are not the problem in the current meta. Assassins, Juggs, PT's, 3v1 stunlocks in arenas and overpowered survivability are the problem in the current meta.

[foxmob]

Eh??? I can't think of any DCD that is actually on the GCD... They are all off the GCD.

 

adrenals. sorry. 2 of 3 on gcd. outside of a macro, I don't (personally) see how one can break, shield and adrenal w/o getting stunned again. but w/e.

 

I've done something similar to what he describes in s3 (when life sucked but wasn't THIS bad). I would take the chance of breaking the first stun (usually this surprised players, even the good ones) but my first move would be to punt them away and pop HO and shield. it was reasonably effective. but when there were juggs involved their first move is to choke you so HO was useless and the sins/maras/sorcs would finish me off pretty easy if I tried to break early regularly.

 

edit: s3 took some work, but the ttk wasn't as low while stunned. even in s5, it's gotten worse, actually, now that hatred isn't fotm cuz fob was broken and even when it wasn't (on the merc) it ammounted to near 60% DR while stunned

Edited May 17, 2015 by foxmob