Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Eroes]

Very good post, as a sniper focused on PvP, I find the delays unbearable. There is no way i can get the true measure of warzones with these issues.

 

Agreed. I always feel the delay when using snip, etc.... The animations seem to turn the 1.5 cast time into 2.5 cast time on snipe.

[The_Slenderman]

I agree with the OP, but only in Warzones. I don't seem to have this problem at all in Flashpoints or running around in the world, but when I get into a warzone, it is EXTREMELY noticeable for me, as in maybe 2 seconds, which is insane for PvP....

[Nafre]

I found this thread this morning and it was like the mothership was calling me home. I bought this game and after playing it for a week I told all my friends waiting to buy it don't bother it will just be another Rift.

 

Someone hit the nail on the head when they said it wasn't just a SWTOR issue, it was an issue with all mmos outside world of warcraft. I know that SOUNDS biased like I'm a fanboy, but I'm extremely objective. I've been playing MMOs for 15 years...I've played every MMO on the market. The OP wasn't kidding when he said this isn't just *AN* issue this is *THE* issue. This should be the ONLY thing game developers should be worried about. Everything comes second to a responsive and fluid UI and combat system. Building amazing story and music and immersive feel like SWTOR did is great, but it's like building a luxury suite on a boat that has a cracked hull.

 

We're all trying to word and show the same thing unsuccessfully. It really is almost unexplainable what feels sluggish about this game. I push my fire blaster button and my character has to raise his blaster, take aim, fire, then i see the white numbers a second after that. There is an inherent delay in everything I do even in just a single ability. Forget trying to chain together 3 abilities in a row its so buggy and unresponsive you feel like the UI and your character are enemies and you're trying to punch in codes to hack them.

 

As for as the pvp goes I'll take it a step further and go a little bit off topic about what someone said earlier. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, In WoW pvp I always knew what was going on in a battle, in this game it's a disaster and chaos. I'll tell you why that is. Not only is the game unresponsive which adds to the chaos, but animations and colors weren't designed to be distinctive to their function.

 

In WoW if a frost mage is casting a frostbolt at you, their hands are glowing blue and you know its coming. If a healer is sitting in the corner healing his hands not only are glowing white or green, the person he is healing is getting very visible flashes of white or green on them, and an audible sound effect for that matter. If a rogue vanishes a puff of smoke appears, if a pvp trinket is popped a swirl goes above their head, if a mage is channeling arcane missiles at you, you know it... it isn't tiny hard visible pebbles.

 

PVP needs to be visible and distinct so your mind can process a hundred things happening at once. No game except WoW has gotten this correct either. Hate WoW till the ends of the earth and burn anyone who praises it at the stake, but at the end of the day it will still just be a better designed game AT THE CORE and at everything that matters.

[dotNex]

I have noticed an issue when trying to interrupt spellcasts on my SA. I know exactly when i hit the Jolt hotkey (Assassin's interrupt) and if I do it 0,1-0,2 seconds before the end of the spellcast I have zero chance of interrupting it. It is extremely frustrating :|

 

Please work on this issue.

Edited December 27, 2011 by dotNex

[xarbie]

/signed

 

hopefully the large influx of player response will wake up the dev team

[Oneiros_IV]

Bioware this "feature" is worthless, when game's core and gameplay are killed by fancy animations wich going to amuse players for only so long.

[Oneiros_IV]

P.S. If you have buddies in gaming review e-magazines (pcgamer, ign and such), try to arrange an article adressing this.

[xarbie]

/signed

 

hopefully the large influx of player response will wake up the dev team

[Surrealdk]

I wish they would fix this...

 

This is a make or break.... several of my friends who started the game, the first thing they

ve said is EXACTLY this..... they've said it feels sluggish and un-responsive.

 

one already quit, only after trying 1 day and he just oculdn't stand it :/

[Springdancer]

I found this thread this morning and it was like the mothership was calling me home.

 

Well said, brother. I think you've nailed it better than the OP; although in the last paragraphs where you describe the features of W.o.W. pvp, I'd say you were used to act on cues than on effects. It may or may not have been a matter of personal preference, but still it allowed to utilize your reflexes - which was possible due to aforementioned game having a responsive UI/combat flow/the thing.

[GeLopez]

I think these issues were fixed today.

[Iga_Fudoshin]

As much as I love this game I am a little disappointed with this aspect. Everything else runs smooth and I don't have any problems but the click and delay is a problem.

[getdownsb]

Why hasn't this been addressed yet?

 

Secondly, in relation to the clunky feel of combat there is a bug that causes animations to stutter (start then re-start several times) during combat. This leads to instant abilities essentially having a 1-2 second pseudo cast time and even outright canceling at times. These are game breaking issues, especially for melee classes.

 

Why have these issues not been addressed yet?

 

We've now had our first major patch and quite honestly there are no major fixes or adjustments to the game in it. The fixes are small and mostly address the "fluff" of the game, while combat and character abilities, the "core" of the game is left unaddressed even though there are several major bugs.

[GeLopez]

I totally agree. On a sidenote: If you're having trouble understanding what this is, I think one of the best ways to see that this is really happening is to use your mount. As soon as the cast bar finishes, move forward or backwards. 90% of the time you will move for a second and then get dismounted. If you watch and wait for the mounting animation to finish and then move, you will remain mounted. Now just imagine this happening while using a casted skill instead of doing something as insignificant as mounting.

 

The mount example is terrible because it's on purpose. Some abilities have brief animations after the initial cast. Mounting is one of them. Force Wave is another.

[Raurth]

I think these issues were fixed today.

 

Not in the slightest.

[Ryzerion]

I think these issues were fixed today.

 

They weren't and if you can see that from lvl 1 on a sith warrior, vicious slice and smash have it tremendously.

[Viktir]

/signed.

 

As with other posters, I have come over from WoW and this post is EXACTLY what I haven't been able to describe to the others.

 

Well done, and THANK YOU .

[Berethos]

I have to agree that this is a major problem for this game if this problem goes unnoticed. I came from playing arena in WoW pretty heavily (gotten 2.2k in 2 seasons as a resto shaman). WoW does get the character animations/responsiveness really well. I like SWTOR, but if this is not fixed I am going to move on.

 

After the pve story what will there be to do? The conversations/story will become stale. At the core, this game needs to have good solid gameplay.

 

I am not a programmer so I am not quite sure how WoW does this so fluidly, but could it perhaps all of the WoW races have only two cast animations? I am sure this makes it much easier.

 

WoW separates it's simplistic animations from how the server interprets the damage. As a result, damage and abilities feel more immediate because the two aren't tied together.

 

Also as a result, you have a swath of players who think this is the only right way to do combat, and complain when the combat doesn't feel "right" when in reality it doesn't feel familiar.

[Raurth]

The mount example is terrible because it's on purpose. Some abilities have brief animations after the initial cast. Mounting is one of them. Force Wave is another.

 

No, the mount example is perfect, because this is the exact damn problem people are complaining about.

 

If an ability has an "Actual" cast time longer than the "Stated" cast time, there is a problem.

 

If it is intended, fix the bars, fix the ui and fix the tooltips. If it isn't intended, fix the problem.

[PandaShake]

It's one of the reasons why I'm playing a sorcerer as opposed to my melee jedi. That feeling of disconnect where my character is flailing around the lightsaber without any connection to what I'm inputting is really frustrating (not from spell queues).

 

Soloing as a sorc, my attention is focused more on my companion tank and cc. Even though the animation and responsiveness is just as janky (channeled spell animation doesn't even start until it's halfway over) or the lightning animation looks like flat textured cardboard (I can't believe recent updated WoW spell graphics looks so much better [smooth and slick like Final fantasy series]), it's more tolerable.

 

Overall, the game is incredibly fun and I hope this important aspect of the game is looked at.

[Heppuli]

I agree with the OP, but only in Warzones. I don't seem to have this problem at all in Flashpoints or running around in the world, but when I get into a warzone, it is EXTREMELY noticeable for me, as in maybe 2 seconds, which is insane for PvP....

 

And that's probably because in warzones there are over 20 people at the same time, which means that huge amounts of data are moving on a little area. For me going to warzones results in a 20 fps drop, and I dear say it's the same for you, hence the delay.

[rcbeemer]

I agree this is the most important problem facing this game right now. It must be fixed immediately I hope Bioware is paying attention.

[Nemmar]

I'm gonna keep saying, as many people here are confusing the real bug with what isnt a bug.

 

On preferences>controls, set your ability delay to 0.0 Everything is gonna feel responsive after you do that.

 

The bug in question here is not gamebreaking. Its just that the game isnt ruled by the casting bars but by the animations.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Nemmar

[drgnmstr_]

I'm not certain I follow what you're really talking about is the problem. I've read through your links and looked at the vids linked. I don't think it's lag or video card related but I think it is more player related than you want to believe. Now before people chastise me for it, let me explain.

 

In the first video you linked shows exactly what happens in WoW. With the mounting part, the player knew when to start moving to not cause a problem and you get the ghost effect for a brief moment. During the frostbolt - icelance combo, the player knew exactly when to press the button for it to take effect right after the frostbolt happened. I've done this many times in WoW and it comes from knowing when on the cast bar to press the next button. That's Player Experience. I can chain cast things all the time in WoW on my characters becasue I know when to press the next button. Spamming the button doesn't really help you and you can see in that first video that the person isn't spamming the ice lance button.

 

In the second video that is TOR based, The same thing is shown to be available and again I believe it's the player knowing exactly when to press the button. If you watch there is no spamming of the second ability button in his UI and he's effectively recreating the same effects in WoW in TOR. the effect was the same as both characters took damage as the same time.

 

In the third video that is trying to show how TOR doesn't do this, I believe the problem is the player spamming the second ability button while the first is still going off, which is attempting to trigger the GCD and causes the misplacement of the ability, resulting in the issue being pointed out. I've seen that same thing happen in WoW if I try to spam my buttons.

 

You are right though; this isn't about lag or FPS (frames per second) but more about player ability in my opinion. The reason I believe a lot of people don't have this issue in WoW is because most of them have been playing a long time and know exactly when to press the next ability button. Since TOR is a little fresher, it will take some learning. I'm sure people will figure it out and be just fine. One solution would be to not spam the buttons I think

[myrmexaw]

if people cannot see this problem it is very very obvious when you use mortar volley from the trooper arsenal ,it basically is a 2.5 second cast that does 3 mortar , during the first 2 second nothing happen then your character start shooting the 3 mortar while the cast bar is already over.