Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Teloss]

Ability delay is not real, it's actually the intentional effect of "small" queue's that are added to skills before they are automatically triggered following prior keystrokes.

 

You are using abilities as fast as the game will let you, thanks to this new system. It only seems delayed because it does not activate right as you press it, but that is because the global cooldown has not expired.

 

THIS_WHOLE_THREAD_IS_A_SHAM

Edited December 27, 2011 by Teloss

[Korialstrazs]

Another good example is the shadows kinetic ward, an ability off the gcd. I will hit the button for it following an attack and even though I should activate it, I do not, I have taken to spamming it three-four times to get it to activate, rather than assuming it will go off after one press.

[tical]

I also agree with the OP and felt this way though out beta. The thing about responsiveness is that it adds an extension of yourself, you can feel like your charecters feels.

 

I would like to see SWTOR become a tighter game as well.

[Seismax]

Ability delay is not real, it's actually the intentional effect of "small" queue's that are added to skills before they are automatically triggered after you activate them prior to them becoming available.

 

No, I talked about this a second ago, there are abilities (like force kick) which you can actually cast in between abilities... sometimes. That's not intentional.

[samdbtto]

here it is as i stated earlier. you will notice the gcd on the instant starts when it is supposed to but the dmg on the target isnt taken until the animation of original cast ends and new animation starts.

 

Edited December 27, 2011 by samdbtto

[Teloss]

No, I talked about this a second ago, there are abilities (like force kick) which you can actually cast in between abilities... sometimes. That's not intentional.

 

Certain abilities don't share a global delay. Kick is one of them because it requires a stunned, or fallen oponent to use it on, which would typically require a skill within your global cooldown to stun the opponent with.

 

1: Use global cooldown to stun or KD opononent

2: Use force kick which requires prior use of skill within global cooldown.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Teloss

[Raurth]

here it is as i stated earlier.

 

 

Nice, your "Instant Ability" has a 1 second cast time. Awesome.

[baznasty]

here it is as i stated earlier. you will notice the gcd on the instant starts when it is supposed to but the dmg on the target isnt taken until the animation of original cast ends and new animation starts.

 

 

One thing would have been great is while the grenade was being thrown all of your moves were off CD, but you should have tried to cast one while your were locked in the grenade throw animation. That's where the issue really becomes apparent. You can't cast your next move at that point because your grenade animation is still going well past the GCD.

[ChimaeraUK]

yeah i agree with this, personally it feels like the animations are slowing things down, for example the trooper explosive round is instant and feels right, however full auto doesn't, and i think it's because the animation has the character make a wide stance pose before firing.

 

It looks really good, but just doesn't feel right, i would rather ditch the animation and have the ability fire instantly, because there's no point if something looks nice but isn't intuitive.

[McTurbo]

i know this.. if my "heal" spell has a 2.5 second cast time.. i cast it.. the cast timer goes off.. and i have to wait another 2-3 seconds while he holds his hand out to cast after the bar has stopped its casting timer.. thats 5 seconds of cast time.. for a single heal.. i simply cant heal in that manner.

 

when the cast timer goes off at what ever the timer is.. the spell needs to cast not wait an additional xx time on top of the cast timer.

Edited December 27, 2011 by McTurbo

[bvalley]

I have read multiple posts trying to explain this issue, and they have been moderately successful when it comes to getting feedback from many people. Thankfully, this post has brought so many more people to the table, all backing it is a EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING issue.

 

In the previous MMO I played, my class at end level had a large rotation, and changed dramatically depending on the situation. The only reason I was able to pull it off successfully, OVER and OVER again, was because the controls were so fluid and precise. I could activate the ability by ONE keypress when it absolutely needed to be cast, and... just like magic, it would activate.

 

However... In this game, even with a smaller rotation of abilities as I am only mid-lvl, I feel like I am in a cluster f*** every fight because stuff just doesn't activate when its suppose too. I find myself key mashing every flippin cast about 2 - 3 times just to make sure the ability goes off.

 

I want this game to be so successful, but sadly, I will not be able to keep an active subscription for long if this is not addressed. This is priority number one for me... I can deal with many of the other things people are complaining about, but not this one.

 

Thank you OP for making a succesful post on this very important subject.

[Teloss]

yeah i agree with this, personally it feels like the animations are slowing things down, for example the trooper explosive round is instant and feels right, however full auto doesn't, and i think it's because the animation has the character make a wide stance pose before firing.

 

It looks really good, but just doesn't feel right, i would rather ditch the animation and have the ability fire instantly, because there's no point if something looks nice but isn't intuitive.

 

imho, the queue system is a balance factor. If everyone is kicking out skills at a human rate, it will come down to how you apply them rather than how fast you spam certain keys. I don't see what people dislike, I am loving the combat system.

 

With this, Devs won't have to take into consider how abusable certain skills are. They will only have to manage how OP they are. It also makes it easy to transition the combat system balance between PVE and PVP.

 

IE: It's an extremely logical and streamlined system that will allow developers to work on more pertinent content rather than a million combat revamps like in WoW.

 

Maybe I like this, because I knew about how skill delays would work months prior to release?

Edited December 27, 2011 by Teloss

[Seismax]

Certain abilities don't share a global delay. Kick is one of them because it requires a stunned, or fallen oponent to use it on, which would typically require a skill within your global cooldown to stun the opponent with.

 

1: Use global cooldown to stun or KD opononent

2: Use force kick which requires prior use of skill within global cooldown.

 

Nope, wrong again. Force Kick is an interrupt, doesn't require anything other than it's focus cost to use.

[samdbtto]

Nice, your "Instant Ability" has a 1 second cast time. Awesome.

 

Good way to put it.

[TheJmoney]

Certain abilities don't share a global delay. Kick is one of them because it requires a stunned, or fallen oponent to use it on, which would typically require a skill within your global cooldown to stun the opponent with.

 

1: Use global cooldown to stun or KD opononent

2: Use force kick which requires of skill within global cooldown.

 

You just don't understand.

 

I am a commando healer. If I use Medical probe, and try to cast another after the first one is DONE casting, it will not begin casting until the first cast's animation is complete. Which is a .5 sec delay in most cases.

 

The animation for the probe fires at the end of the cast, the probe drops down, heals whoever and then flies away. THEN I can cast again.

 

There is no reason I should not be able to cast while the animation is going on, and it's causing deaths in pve AND pvp.

[CyberData]

I have to agree with the OP, this is an issue. Should be fixed, asap.

[Rafkin]

Couldn't they just make the GCDs match the proper animation.

 

I know its not the the fix that we would like however it would improve the situation.

 

maybe. But what about abilities that ignore the global cool down? They shouldn't have to wait for an animation to finish before going off. Especially makes interrupts difficult to use.

[samdbtto]

One thing would have been great is while the grenade was being thrown all of your moves were off CD, but you should have tried to cast one while your were locked in the grenade throw animation. That's where the issue really becomes apparent. You can't cast your next move at that point because your grenade animation is still going well past the GCD.

 

I just tried to recreate your video for the most part, showing the difference. I didnt want to get too cute with it. I'm open to making more movies illustrating the combat problems in game though.

[SeawolfX]

I agree with this post. Here's to hoping it's addressed... Has there been any developer comment yet?

[baznasty]

Good way to put it.

 

1 thing about doing a video where you are showing that it doesn't work is most of the fact that it doesn't work is felt. You can see it if you really really look closely and know what you're looking at; however, it is very discernible if you are the one actually playing.

 

I do see it in the video though.

[Teloss]

You just don't understand.

 

I am a commando healer. If I use Medical probe, and try to cast another after the first one is DONE casting, it will not begin casting until the first cast's animation is complete. Which is a .5 sec delay in most cases.

 

The animation for the probe fires at the end of the cast, the probe drops down, heals whoever and then flies away. THEN I can cast again.

 

There is no reason I should not be able to cast while the animation is going on, and it's causing deaths in pve AND pvp.

 

That's a world-wide, user limitation, hence being able to heal faster than the animation would in actuality break the class by gimping it beyond balance.

 

Maybe, deal with it? I can't fire a 50 cal like a rail gun either.

[Teloss]

I agree with this post. Here's to hoping it's addressed... Has there been any developer comment yet?

 

Yes the developers made commentary about this system about 5 months ago when announcing it, and how it would improve balance, and provide smoother game play even at higher game play, allowing more people to play.

 

The benefits outweigh the other trade-off, by far. It is an intentional, mechanical implementation that makes ability casting easier, and more efficient for everybody. If you feel "limited", that is imaginary, because you are no more constrained than any other playing.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Teloss

[Seismax]

maybe. But what about abilities that ignore the global cool down? They shouldn't have to wait for an animation to finish before going off. Especially makes interrupts difficult to use.

 

Yep this exactly, I've said this a whole bunch already, but this wouldn't be a problem if combat and the UI weren't clearly telling us we can use our skills nor if the animations weren't trying to go off. The game is obviously designed to try to do what people are saying, it just doesn't.

 

I'm not even sure why some people say it's not a problem, even if you feel the system is perfectly fine, then the UI is still broken.

[baznasty]

Yes the developers made commentary about this system about 5 months ago when announce it and how it would improve balance, and provide smoother game play even at higher game play, allowing more people to play.

 

The benefits outweigh the other trade-off, by far.

 

I believe this thread at least puts a large dent in your last sentence.

[shuffell]

That's a world-wide, user limitation, hence being able to heal faster than the animation would in actuality break the class by gimping it beyond balance.

 

Maybe, deal with it? I can't fire a 50 cal like a rail gun either.

 

 

That s fine at least your GCD matches how you fire the 50 cal.