Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[dcinnitt]

It's an issue with coding. Synchronicity on WoW is apparently "not as good" because on YOUR screen everything is fluid and on your ENEMIES screen everything is fluid, but you're not actually pressing the keys at the exact same time in your house on opposite sides of the world... It's to do with the server interaction with players. I really don't know how it works but it is the one thing an MMO company needs to figure out. It's the 100 million dollars a month+ question.

[Nephrahim]

You will never see an official response from BW ever on this forum unless its to close a thread. And certainly not to answer issues like this or even the shoddy UI which will also make or break this game eventually if not improved.

 

They've answered a few stuff like this. Over here.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=696184#edit696184

 

Not saying that garuntees they'll talk about this here (Not sure they HAVE a fix, and if they don't, they might WANT to ignore it.) but I have hope.

[baznasty]

20 years of gaming since C 64. I did not figure it out. I think myself as average intelligent person but the logic behind this mechanic remains me a mystery. If we need to watch animation closely, why even have gcd? There is enough stuff to worry about in pvp and endgaming even without having to worry about interrupting myself by being too hasty pressing keys.

 

I think they should just remove the GCD and at the end of the animation for the move, have the character turn around and give you a thumbs up, letting you know that he is ready for you to tell him what to do next.

 

Problem solved.

[Xcore]

Arguing is pretty pointless at this point. I mean, I'm all for it because it keeps the thread up here, but what we really need is a response at this point.

 

I don't beg for dev posts very often, but it's very justified here.

 

58 Pages of agreeing voices and VERY GOOD Feedback and discussion to the topic and absolutely NO acknowledgment from Bioware either means they:

 

1) Purposely ignore it because they cannot fix it, know this and bank on the players who are "fine" with this or "don't notice the issue" to be enough to spell a profit to EA...

 

2) Don't know how to fix this issue, don't want to respond yet and are brainstorming behind the scenes.

 

3) Favor Animation over Responsiveness so much so that this is a non-issue to them...

 

 

All 3 are worrying to me and I would say are miscalculating on their end.

 

 

Bioware should really respond to this and open up the discussion... I've said it before and I'll say it again, Gamers are generally too intelligent to be ignored like this and it will show by this game's success over the next 6 months. I strongly recommend open (no lies) dialogue with the community on this subject.

[Drazzat]

Yeah, I am.

 

In WoW, I could hit a button and my character reacted on the spot.

 

Overpower? Instant reaction. Backstab, Ambush? Instant reaction. Raging Blow? Instant reaction.

 

In TOR, I hit Shadow Strike, Shiv, Backstab, Lacerate...they tend to lag. In a tiny way. But it's noticeable and impacts every aspect of the game, given 90% of the game is hitting buttons to hurt/heal things.

 

It affects damage, healing, interrupts, PvE, PvP. Is it a deal breaker to me? No, I've played other games with similar issues, and it sucks, but the pros outweigh the cons.

 

If we can get this refined, though? Why wouldn't you want a client as smooth as what's proven to exist elsewhere?

 

Pretty much loving every one of your posts.

[Xcore]

I think they should just remove the GCD and at the end of the animation for the move, have the character turn around and give you a thumbs up, letting you know that he is ready for you to tell him what to do next.

 

Problem solved.

 

lol.... bravo...

[dcinnitt]

58 Pages of agreeing voices and VERY GOOD Feedback and discussion to the topic and absolutely NO acknowledgment from Bioware either means they:

 

1) Purposely ignore it because they cannot fix it, know this and bank on the players who are "fine" with this or "don't notice the issue" to be enough to spell a profit to EA...

 

2) Don't know how to fix this issue, don't want to respond yet and are brainstorming behind the scenes.

 

3) Favor Animation over Responsiveness so much so that this is a non-issue to them...

 

 

All 3 are worrying to me and I would say are miscalculating on their end.

 

 

Bioware should really respond to this and open up the discussion... I've said it before and I'll say it again, Gamers are generally too intelligent to be ignored like this and it will show by this game's success over the next 6 months. I strongly recommend open (no lies) dialogue with the community on this subject.

 

I heard that they only need 500k subscribers to make a profit or something along those lines. So another option is that they are just human beings like us. They really aren't motivated enough and don't really care about making this game a top contender. This is their job and it pays their bills.

[Systam]

58 Pages of agreeing voices and VERY GOOD Feedback and discussion to the topic and absolutely NO acknowledgment from Bioware either means they:

 

1) Purposely ignore it because they cannot fix it, know this and bank on the players who are "fine" with this or "don't notice the issue" to be enough to spell a profit to EA...

 

2) Don't know how to fix this issue, don't want to respond yet and are brainstorming behind the scenes.

 

3) Favor Animation over Responsiveness so much so that this is a non-issue to them...

 

 

All 3 are worrying to me and I would say are miscalculating on their end.

 

 

Bioware should really respond to this and open up the discussion... I've said it before and I'll say it again, Gamers are generally too intelligent to be ignored like this and it will show by this game's success over the next 6 months. I strongly recommend open (no lies) dialogue with the community on this subject.

 

i agree but sadly we're also talking about EA! behind BW and EA is just terrible with Customers

[Nephrahim]

They only respond to one or two topics a day. Also, it's the holidays, and they don't really have a Ghostcrawler here.

[Systam]

I heard that they only need 500k subscribers to make a profit or something along those lines. So another option is that they are just human beings like us. They really aren't motivated enough and don't really care about making this game a top contender. This is their job and it pays their bills.

 

no im pretty sure when if u put in 3(or 4?) years into an mmo u want it to get a success. And they have EA behind them u think They're like o ok its fine if u guys are lazy even if we make any money.

 

This is a huge issue for me and many people in my guild. If its not fixed promptly we aren't going to be staying here much longer sadly

[AidanLightwalker]

I heard that they only need 500k subscribers to make a profit or something along those lines. So another option is that they are just human beings like us. They really aren't motivated enough and don't really care about making this game a top contender. This is their job and it pays their bills.

 

I don't think that's the case. I'm okay with "they don't know how to fix it." It happens. I work as a front end coder and there are lots of times I have to go back to the drawing board to resolve issues. You can tell that they love this game, nobody puts this much time and effort into something they don't love.

 

Give them time, I'm sure they will answer and hopefully have a solution to the problem.

[lordpharaohz]

I absolutely 100% agree with this post. The delay of abilities is majorly hindering me in PVP and making the game much less enjoyable. PLEASE listen to this poster and address this.

[Xcore]

They only respond to one or two topics a day. Also, it's the holidays, and they don't really have a Ghostcrawler here.

 

I hope this thread stays positive, active and on page 1 for them to see after the holidays then... either way, response is required to prevent bleeding the first subs (which we all know is a snowballing effect if its because of this very issue discussed here).

[dcinnitt]

no im pretty sure when if u put in 3(or 4?) years into an mmo u want it to get a success. And they have EA behind them u think They're like o ok its fine if u guys are lazy even if we make any money.

 

This is a huge issue for me and many people in my guild. If its not fixed promptly we aren't going to be staying here much longer sadly

 

No I totally agree with you. I have just logged out of my 33 Sage because I really can't be bothered playing. I logged in, casted a heal and then an instant and saw it was still there. Don't want to play.

 

I will be leaving within the month if things aren't changed. I will be back if I ever hear that it has changed though

 

I think it's a tougher MMO market out there than we think. I just don't think anyone has the ability to come up with coding as good as WoW's so we'll forever be waiting... Only 4 years to go until Blizzard's new MMO..

[Godsfear]

I don't get it?

 

Why would people want responsive game play in a video game?

 

Let's just look at some successful video game franchises.

 

 

Uncharted series

Gears of WAR. Flawless gameplay

Halo series. Perfect targeting gameplay

COD series. Flawless mechanically

WOW standard setting

League of legends. Competitive pvp environment.

Diablo

 

As we can see all of these games had loose gameplay mechanics and were super succesful.

 

Players don't want tight gameplay as demonstrated by my list. all of these games built there foundation on sloppy gameplay mechanics.

 

You guys just need to get on BW/EA's level.

[dcinnitt]

I hope this thread stays positive, active and on page 1 for them to see after the holidays then... either way, response is required to prevent bleeding the first subs (which we all know is a snowballing effect if its because of this very issue discussed here).

 

I've bookmarked it so I will try to remember to check and post every couple of days. I will keep you updated with my experiences as a Sage. I've also played WoW since release and I know 100% that the combat fluidity and instant feedback and responsiveness of WoW was there when it was released. It's something they have gotten right since the beginning; which no one else has since.

[Revsx]

I agree 100% with the OP and i'm reluctant to try pvp because of it.

 

First off, my playstyle is fast-paced and i play a sorc. My 2 bottom quickbars are all keybinded because quick actions and reactions during fights, be it pve or pvp, is what i take personal pride and enjoyment from.

 

Being able to control a fight thanks to good awareness, quick decision and actions is what i want. Because then i know my personal skill as a player defines winning or losing. Sadly, this game does not allow me to do that to the extent most competitive players would expect.

 

I've read through this entire thread and many others stating the same unresponsiveness and some good points have been made such as animations lasting longer then gcd and of course the noticeable 0.5s delay. I'd like to add the following:

 

I believe there is also an issue with the game client checks performed when activating abilities, for some reason i notice some abilities and their animation will fire only to be cancelled 0.5s later by the server. Why is this not being addressed client side? If certain conditions for an ability are not met then they shouldn't fire client side in the first place?

 

Anyway i expect that only a minority will experience this unresponsiveness. When i look at how slow paced some of my friends play but i can't understand why anyone would oppose a fix for this issue, the fix wouldn't affect you anyway.

[Leilei]

58 Pages of agreeing voices and VERY GOOD Feedback and discussion to the topic and absolutely NO acknowledgment from Bioware either means they:

 

1) Purposely ignore it because they cannot fix it, know this and bank on the players who are "fine" with this or "don't notice the issue" to be enough to spell a profit to EA...

 

2) Don't know how to fix this issue, don't want to respond yet and are brainstorming behind the scenes.

 

3) Favor Animation over Responsiveness so much so that this is a non-issue to them...

 

 

All 3 are worrying to me and I would say are miscalculating on their end.

 

 

Bioware should really respond to this and open up the discussion... I've said it before and I'll say it again, Gamers are generally too intelligent to be ignored like this and it will show by this game's success over the next 6 months. I strongly recommend open (no lies) dialogue with the community on this subject.

 

IF we want them to respond we need to make one single post explaining everything in detail.

 

We have a TON of other issues and making them sift through a bunch of anecdotal evidence then trying to reproduce it themselves THEN trying to figure out what would be the possible problems will make things go by slower o.o

 

How about we start with a list of abilities that are instant and have animation time longer than the gcd which cause the problems?

 

So far I have not gotten anything with that on my scoundrel. The animations always ends before the gcd is done ticking.

 

I already proposed a solution of making things have a "channel time" equal to the whole animation length even to the currently insta cast abilities so that it mimics Champions Onlines combat gameplay.

[Nargiley]

Mhh... so in my understanding not every Person got this Problem.

 

For me, Ive played WOW a long time and i Know how important it is to time ur spells perfectly. And it works well in SWTOR.

 

U Guys ever tryed to adjust ur "Render Ahead Limit" per Riva Tuner or ATI Toll?

[Gastranomick]

100% agree. I actually came to these forums to gripe about this. And it's not just .5 seconds. In warzones i get delays that easily last 1 second. 1.5 second cast, bar finishes casting, 1 second later it actually fires off. Sweet game bro.

 

But seriously. I'm not playing this game at the end of my free time unless this is fixed. What he said in this post is true. I'm the type of player he was talking about. I'm not going to stick around playing a game that doesn't play up to my standards. I enjoy a lot of other MMO's out there and i have no problems going back to ones that function properly. Same reason i quit WAR (though i don't remember having any issues in RIFT)

 

the game's playability is the real life equivalent of driving a car that has been modified to respond as if you were driving it drunk.

 

once i hit 50, I'm outa here. The only thing this game has worth it's weight is the story. after i finish it there is nothing else worth playing in this game.

 

but i Do love this game. was lots of fun questing--is lots of fun. Very enjoyable.

[Xcore]

I've bookmarked it so I will try to remember to check and post every couple of days. I will keep you updated with my experiences as a Sage. I've also played WoW since release and I know 100% that the combat fluidity and instant feedback and responsiveness of WoW was there when it was released. It's something they have gotten right since the beginning; which no one else has since.

 

I play a Gunslinger currently at 29 almost and my Fiancee is a 28 Sage, she is noticing it big time as well... thanks for the support. I hope Bioware will take this seriously because Warhammer and many other examples certainly did not...

[dcinnitt]

Remember on WoW when you got so used to how responsive the casts are you could start running on your mount before the animation had even finished? You'd have a split second of running really fast on your feet and then the mount would appear? That's responsiveness. We enjoy fancy animations and we enjoy the game looking good. But the technical side of the game is what's important to a LARGE portion of players and you're completely destroying their experience. Edited December 26, 2011 by dcinnitt

[baznasty]

misquote, repost inc Edited December 26, 2011 by baznasty

[baznasty]

I agree 100% with the OP and i'm reluctant to try pvp because of it.

 

First off, my playstyle is fast-paced and i play a sorc. My 2 bottom quickbars are all keybinded because quick actions and reactions during fights, be it pve or pvp, is what i take personal pride and enjoyment from.

 

Being able to control a fight thanks to good awareness, quick decision and actions is what i want. Because then i know my personal skill as a player defines winning or losing. Sadly, this game does not allow me to do that to the extent most competitive players would expect.

 

I've read through this entire thread and many others stating the same unresponsiveness and some good points have been made such as animations lasting longer then gcd and of course the noticeable 0.5s delay. I'd like to add the following:

 

I believe there is also an issue with the game client checks performed when activating abilities, for some reason i notice some abilities and their animation will fire only to be cancelled 0.5s later by the server. Why is this not being addressed client side? If certain conditions for an ability are not met then they shouldn't fire client side in the first place?

 

Anyway i expect that only a minority will experience this unresponsiveness. When i look at how slow paced some of my friends play but i can't understand why anyone would oppose a fix for this issue, the fix wouldn't affect you anyway.

 

It's not that people are against a fix for it, it's that they feel like we are spies sent here from Blizzard and we are trying to destroy the game from the inside. They see a contructive feedback thread as a conspiracy to keep this game from succeeding when, in fact, it is the exact opposite. We are all dying to get this game to succeed. We are here to watch it flourish, but as long this issue persists, we must work to get it changed.

 

We see the turd in the punch bowl, we try to get it removed. Other people don't see the poo in the punch and think we are just here to keep them from drinking their delicious turd-flavored beverage.

[dekey]

Im cybertech. Ill try the grenade thing. Sofar its working like WoW to me though. Blaster bolts in the air? SAfe to toss!

 

Anotehr thing is using your charge ability while rolling. Idk about you but my cast bar does NOT appear unless I am already in cover so it must be because you arent using the cover bar

 

 

1st its grenade then blaster which causes the problem, not the other way round.

 

2nd im referring to when you have reached your cover, not whilst still rolling. Yes im using my cover bar, I do know how to play a sniper