Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Fuub]

go back to wow

[PerpetualGamer]

go back to wow

 

Go back under your bridge.

 

Still think this feature would be great to fix

[Myrmedus]

I have noticed an issue when trying to interrupt spellcasts on my SA. I know exactly when i hit the Jolt hotkey (Assassin's interrupt) and if I do it 0,1-0,2 seconds before the end of the spellcast I have zero chance of interrupting it. It is extremely frustrating :|

 

Please work on this issue.

 

This.

 

One of the worst cases of this is in interrupts. Pretty much any reactive ability is virtually unusable at present. When I was trying to Force Kick on my Jedi Sentinel I thought for a second that Kick was on the GCD since it didn't go off nor was the cooldown initiated. At first I just sighed since an interrupt should never be (WoW made this mistake) but when I watched my bars in the next fight I realised it wasn't.

 

So why the heck wasn't it going off?

 

Simple. Because my previous animation hadn't finished the game completely ignored my interrupt. What's the point of having reactive abilities in the game when issues like this exist?

 

This game has certain things that, at least IMO, go waaaaay beyond WoW in terms of their quality so please patch this up and it'll be great.

[Radlance]

man (topic starter) your are awesome, its exactly how i am feeling about this mechanics

[Darren_Kitlor]

This needs a bump.

 

I sincerely hope members of the development team take the time to read this well-though, earnest appeal to improve the game. PvP is a mess due to this issue.

[Xcore]

go back to wow

 

But I don't really want to, I realize you have not read my early review of SW:TOR but i'll indulge. I actually like SW:TOR a lot, I'd argue everyone in this thread does... That is why we are raising this issue in hopes to not have to/be forced to go back to WoW for superior gameplay.

 

I know you're just a little troll and thats fine! But if you'd actually take a few hours of your timeand read the OP as well as all the following discussions, you may find yourself interested, intrigued...

 

 

I hope it isn't too cold this time of the year under your bridge... I do sympathize.

[Brodsk]

Regarding the Sith Sorcerer's video response:

 

That worked because of the Sorcerer's Crushing Darkness animation "connects" instantly to the target after the casting is complete.

 

But abilities that have "connecting" animations after the casting time, for example most blaster shots, thrown grenades, the Disturbance from Jedi Sage, etc, which you need to wait for the abilities' effect to reach the target to deal the damage, those won't allow you to do that you saw in the video.

 

Most Sorcerer animations instantly "connect" to the target, Lightning Strike, Shock, CD, Aff, etc. so Sith Sorcerers have an easier time with the issue.

 

I played a Jedi Sage and a Sith Sorcerer and I can tell you with no doubt that the Sorcerer's gameplay in PVP is much more fluid.

[xivik]

/agree

 

I can live with it during leveling although it is surely annoying as hell.

 

An example on my Sith assassin: When I use maul it starts the animation, cuts it off then replays the animation before it hits. This entire process takes roughly 2 GCD's ie. 3 seconds.

If I use a different ability before the cut off+full animation is played it won't hit at all.

 

As I said I can live with it during the leveling process but if this doesn't get fixed it is going to ruin any sort of serious endgame. I'm loving the game and so far any other flaws are minor and not gamebreaking. However in the long run I can see this ruining the game for me.

 

 

Please bioware fix this, I really want to stay with this game. And I will for a while, but if this doesn't get fixed within the starting months I'm afraid I'll be waiting for a new MMO to switch too asap.

[SiskoEP]

I'm enjoying this game immensely, but I must agree with the OP. Coming from WoW, I also felt controlling my character during combat felt clunky and unresponsive at times and I didn't quite know why, this is why.

 

I think BW should definitely work hard on fixing this.

[CVSiN]

Yes default is 0.5 but it is important to understand that it is not the Queuing of Abilities that is the issue, it is the execution of an ability.

 

It has nothing to do with this sadly, for example... I cast "Aimed Shot"... about 0.5 seconds after I hit my button it starts to cast (at 40-50 FPS and 20ms Latency). Also, my "next ability" that I am spamming already before the Aimed Shot Cast Time is completed (as to not miss any time between) never goes off and no animation ever happens...

 

I mean, the whole system is just messed up, not smooth... not responsive.

 

this is NOT happening to me except in VERY laggy (server side PVP WZs) most of the time it doesnt happen at all..

but what you are describing is server side lag.

 

if you cast the same ability elsewhere it immediately executes.

 

if the ability has an animation before the damage hits or heal goes off then you will have to deal with that animation.. there is NOTHING wrong with that.. it is a SLOWER paced game in PVP than CRAPTASTIC 2 hits and you are dead in WoW..

the slower more tactical gameplay give a chance to fight back where in WoW and Rift you were 3 shotted in 2 secs.

 

This game is NOT WoW and it doesn't want to be... you can have those instadeath type of warzones and PVP we dont want it here.

[MarsX]

I'm late to this post, and I haven't read past the first page, but I agree completely with the OP. well said.

[Fuub]

But I don't really want to, I realize you have not read my early review of SW:TOR but i'll indulge. I actually like SW:TOR a lot, I'd argue everyone in this thread does... That is why we are raising this issue in hopes to not have to/be forced to go back to WoW for superior gameplay.

 

I know you're just a little troll and thats fine! But if you'd actually take a few hours of your timeand read the OP as well as all the following discussions, you may find yourself interested, intrigued...

 

 

I hope it isn't too cold this time of the year under your bridge... I do sympathize.

 

go first try more mmo games beside wow and maybe u will understand different gameplays.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Meluna

[Rendekar]

This discussion has already jumped to mmo-champion forums and probably many others sites will follow. Bioware will have to answer to this thread one day before the masses leave the game for good. Well, If they do not comment on this issue, Swtor will be remembered as a good rpg that is worth playing 1 or 2 months for story.

 

If I was responsible for the current system, I would be ashamed to make this huge mmo that will be sadly remembered with its delayed abilities and broken combat.

[lukistke]

Hahaha! I couldn't stop thinking of the Chris Farley SNL skit while readin the OP. Whats with all the quote marks?

 

Uhh.. I don't.. "change my underwear".. uh.. I'm not "buff".. uh.. I don't have.. "firm breasts".. uh.. I don't.. "exercise". And when I do sweat, I don't.. "shower". I'm not.. "spic-and-span".. I don't.. "clean the area between my crotch and legs".

[Curtishansen]

me and my buddy were trying to put our finger on what we werent liking about this game and this pretty much nails it on the head. (ps we are loving the game just having some minor complaints).

 

Thanks for articulating and I hope this gets some attention

[Shouku]

Hello,

 

Before you label me a Troll please read my Early Review here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=76222

 

Video Examples of the Discussed Subject

 

Thank You - Baznasty (Page 87) -- MUST SEE!:

 

Thank You - Sanchpanza (Page 123) -- TOR Example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzP0xjNLyX4

 

Thank You - Samdbtto (Page 124) -- TOR Target Switch Responsiveness

 

 

Note: Please, if you agree with these points and this subject, rate the thread. Perhaps this will raise Bioware's awareness. Anything we can do to make SW:TOR the best it can be because the truth is you and I are here because we want it to succeed and we see it's potential.

 

The game has been out long enough for the masses to finally realize the negatives. As people are getting out of the starting planets and the "new and shiny" feeling starts to subside, the cracks in this new wonderous world are becoming apparent.

 

Ability Delay and Character Responsiveness: -- It is not Latency or FPS Lag

 

I will attempt to discuss this issue and I will do so in a manner that I hope will make everyone understand it better. The "Character Responsiveness" for lack of a better term, is how "smooth" the game plays from your avatars perspective. I have played SWG and EQ to a lesser degree as well as Warhammer Online and several other MMOs and I must honestly say that Bioware has gotten this all too important aspect much better than any previous MMO that I have experienced (with the obvious exception, to which we will get soon).

 

You see, I really want you (The Reader) to understand the importance of this topic. To drive home "how" important this is. In fact I will say this: I am in no way shy to say that, the reason Warhammer Online, EQs, Rift, SWG etc. etc. could never "ever" get to anything near WoW subscriptions is the Character Responsiveness. All these games failed for many reasons, and a game "can" fail for many reasons and on many fronts but this single-one-category... is by "far" the #1 Reason why World of Warcraft is World of Warcraft.

 

Again, I must drive home the fact that no matter if you understand this issue or are new to the subject (and perhaps MMOs) or if you believe the game is fun and enjoyable and think that this is just a vocal minority piping up on something nonsensical. This is the undeniable truth and any game developer or serious gamer worth their salt will agree.

 

 

What is Character Responsiveness and Ability Delay? -- It is not Latency or FPS lag

 

It is the feeling of connection between the person behind the keyboard and the Avatar that is being controlled. Basically, the better the Character Responsiveness is, the smoother the Game Plays! You may HATE World of Warcraft and believe it is the worst abomination on the planet... that is fine. HOWEVER, you "must" objectively admit that it is the absolute, smoothest Character Responsiveness in a Western Available MMO ever.

 

If you are a WoW player, and have played WoW with any amount of skill, competitiveness, you cannot help but cringe when in a Warzone in SW:TOR. It feels unresponsive, frustrating... as if something is wrong with you! but there is nothing you can do about it!

 

If you have never played WoW, perhaps you come from SWG or EQ2 or Rift etc. that is fine! You are WELCOME in this thread, it is not WoW Players against the Rest! I just "need" you to understand that SW:TOR is "noticeably" and "objectively" bad in this crucial department. I am not writing this because I am trolling or because I love WoW, on the contrary. I am doing this because I want SW:TOR to be amazing, I love so many aspects of this great game... but if this is not addressed it "will" die like every other one.

 

 

Why is this "so" important?! -- It is not Latency or FPS lag

 

From here on I will say 0.5 for emphasis but reality is 0.2, 0.3 (ANY) Ability Delay is unacceptable.

 

And here is the real problem. It is so important because MMO gaming has become so "tight", so competitive and so smooth (through WoW), that it is completely and absolutely unacceptable for an ability or animation to be delayed by 0.5 seconds.

 

0.5 seconds is a lot of time, to our visual cortex. 0.5 seconds is the difference between interrupting a CC of the enemy player or not (and thus being disadvantaged/dying). 0.5 seconds is the difference between landing a Taunt on the "add" that just came into the room and thus having it come to you or it one-shotting your healer and thus wiping on the Boss you've just spent 3 Days wiping to.

 

Zero Point Five Seconds is a ******* Long Time

 

 

Bioware, I plead that you dedicate as many resources as required (all if needed) to address this. You cannot cram story/companions/new flashpoints - operations... Class Balance into patches and hope that is good enough.

 

I hate to be a crazed doomsayer but I must state: Mark my words, if SW:TOR's Character Responsiveness and Ability Delay is not on par with WoW's by March-June it will be just another Rift.

 

Bioware, please see the importance of Character Responsiveness and Visual Stimulation of Ability Animation Correctness. It should be impossible for me to have an ability's cooldown activated without seeing it animate.... this is unacceptable. I just truly hope that this isn't a core coding issue or engine issue, because then we're f'd.

 

 

Notable Mention:

 

Page 133 -- Poster: ajjw

 

"In a game like WoW, if your previous spell's animation is still playing when you use your next spell, the old animation immediately ends and that of the new spell beings. However in TOR, if an animation is still playing, the game will not let you cast another spell, even if the cast time and GCD have already finished.

 

In other words, if a spell has a 2s cast time but a 2.5s animation, you'll be sat there looking stupid for 0.5s unable to cast anything after the first spell, whereas in WoW the last 0.5s of the old animation will be "clipped" (ie cut off) and you'll be able to cast a new spell immediately, the animation of which will also begin to play immediately."

 

 

 

P.S.: It is not Latency or FPS Lag... also very important to understand.

 

 

I agree 100% with the original poster. In addition there is a targeting problem tied into this and/or even caused in large part by this. This becomes plain and apparent during boss pulls and multiple mobs and it is the reason why melee tanks lose agro so much easier then ranged tanks.

 

I really hope Bioware addresses this issue.

[Tenfoot_Tall]

ok so i have been lurking these forums for a while and i usually dont post but i feel very strongly about what the OP has stated. It is this 'responsiveness' that i have been missing in every mmo i have played (since wow). If Bioware or any other company for that matter could fine tune the responsivness to make me feel like im connected to my avatar when im doing battle (especially pvp) then they would have a much higher rentention of subs and bring more subs to the game.

 

the op put it in words that makes the most sense for what i feel is missing so thank you for that.

 

P.S - /bump

[Spetsnazos]

Thread is spreading across the internet and various forums for people. I hope we get a response to this and I hope its not something like "We are looking into the issue".

 

This is a deal breaker and the #1 and only reason why I unsubscribed.

[wewter]

me and my buddy were trying to put our finger on what we werent liking about this game and this pretty much nails it on the head. (ps we are loving the game just having some minor complaints).

 

Thanks for articulating and I hope this gets some attention

 

This. 100% w/ OP - well thought out post and he knows what he's talking about, as many of us can clearly see this as an issue.

 

Those that don't, well ... reexamine. There certainly is an issue.

[Rendekar]

Thread is spreading across the internet and various forums for people. I hope we get a response to this and I hope its not something like "We are looking into the issue".

 

This is a deal breaker and the #1 and only reason why I unsubscribed.

 

Exactly, only reason why I unsubscribed too. Fix it and gain a very long term customer.

[Spetsnazos]

Exactly, only reason why I unsubscribed too. Fix it and gain a very long term customer.

 

This. I can wait for content patches and I can wait for balance issues for months. But I can't play an unresponsive and clunky game after playing WoW for so long. I dont feel like I should be moving 8 years back in time just because this game is new and it just launched.

[Halkyon]

What's weird is that this lag is inconsistent. In PvE it's fine for me, and practically non-existant. In PvP Warzones, it gets me killed constantly when my interrupts land a full second too late, attack don't fire up when they're supposed to, etc. This is with a reported ping of 99 or so.

[Xcore]

go first try more mmo games beside wow and maybe u will understand different gameplays.

 

Have you not read the OP and subsequent discussions at all? What is wrong with people like you is harder to define than the topic at hand..

Edited December 27, 2011 by Xcore

[bvalley]

I have not posted much on any kind of forum, but I feel so strongly about this issue that I want to make sure this thread stays on top. What does it take to get an official response from BW normally?

[Xcore]

Hahaha! I couldn't stop thinking of the Chris Farley SNL skit while readin the OP. Whats with all the quote marks?

 

Uhh.. I don't.. "change my underwear".. uh.. I'm not "buff".. uh.. I don't have.. "firm breasts".. uh.. I don't.. "exercise". And when I do sweat, I don't.. "shower". I'm not.. "spic-and-span".. I don't.. "clean the area between my crotch and legs".

 

Apologies my formatting and wording is so humorous but I hope that you got more than that out of this thread and topic.