Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Xcore]

While I agree that the responsiveness is an issue I find it really irritating that you would talk about games like SWG and EQ as if you played them. Their responsiveness was perfect and natural and really ruin your credibility for any meaningful argument, but luckily for you responsiveness in SWTOR cannot be argued.

 

Get the fix in here soon Bioware, your population will dwindle but not nearly as much as the OP is claiming.

 

This is off-topic but I have played them, SWG extensively and EQ to a degree... all I can say is, don't be silly.

[Siem]

I'd go either way on the issue really. I just want my UI and animations to reflect what's happening.

 

Hands up all those jedi that hate seeing an attack "Half Swing" and stop because the game doesn't know what to do with it.

 

I really think that's the main concern. I want my UI to be accurate. If this means a separate GCD for every ability...well that sucks, but it's better than what we have now.

[Layden]

Actually there is an animation ability that does this, where you cast and it stops to do the next ability while still executing the first, if I can recreate it, it could show what we would like the game to do but for the most part isnt doing.

 

I understand exactly what we want. I played WoW and used Quartz cast bar to cast down to the miliseconds.

 

I'm not sure why I'm trying to debate with Teloss, when he resorts to petty name calling. (Nerd-rage?)

[_Skyanne_]

The game seems really responsive to me at the moment...of course more responsive is never bad so I guess if they can improve it that would be good too.

[Facrollen]

I am experienceing the same issue and it is absolutly fustrating in pvp. I feel like i have 1k MS all the time

[Thatguy]

I agree entirely with all that you have said.

 

As a competetive PvPer (I was floating around 2650 rating in WoW as shadowcleave and grinded out R7 in rift) this is absolutely unacceptable. The combat seems to be based on animation. People may hate WoW, and I myself am not a fan, but the one thing you have to agree on regardless of position is that their combat is extremely crisp and smooth. When I hit an ability, it happens instantly, followed by the animation.

 

For PvP, this is everything and is a reason why WoW has the best PvP still out of all MMOs. I'm very disappointed, and thought during the beta this was just a latency issue. The delay is gamebreaking and I sincerely hope that it is changed. This topic is amazing and must be brought to Bioware's attention.

 

Personally, I'm not going to be resubscribing. I've played too many other MMOs where I have far more control than this, and despite my love for star wars, I can't bear the delay any longer.

[baznasty]

The game seems really responsive to me at the moment...of course more responsive is never bad so I guess if they can improve it that would be good too.

 

I don't understand why everyone who disagrees with us doesn't have this exact same mentality. If you are not seeing it and it's not hindering your experience, great! But, if they fix it, it doesn't negatively effect you at all.

 

Wish everyone shared your outlook

Edited December 27, 2011 by baznasty

[Unseenhands]

I think I'd be okay with the idea of just re-labeling the abilities and editing the cast bars to accurately reflect how long it actually takes before you can cast another ability.

 

If that means something has a 5.2 second cast, but it's perfectly accurate and the cast bar reflects it and my ability bar "Lights up" so I can move to the next skill, then at least it'd be consistent.

 

Of course, I might be okay if they just made animations match existing cast times and GCD (just because faster's better

[Layden]

 

Right now, this thread would get it's way by destroying most combat animations. The lazy fix, which is more of a "gimp stick" really.

 

You ignore my points about adjusting cast times to fit animations and how Alacrity is useless when locked to animation.

[Horiizons]

Wow...I though I was the only one noticing this. In fact I was going to post a thread right now regarding this issue. I'm going to try and not make this some wall of text and only briefly talk about what I'm noticing. This is also coming from someone who has played WoW for the last 7 years and about a year of Rift so I may be a little biased but just like the OP said you cannot deny that WoW has perfected the formula for character interaction. Damage, Healing, or Tanking.

 

Auto Attack (Not "auto attack the closest target" option that everyone keeps getting confused with). I'm talking about just like in WoW, being able to right click a mob and start attacking, doing white damage while you are going into your rotation. This is one thing that I would REALLY like to see in this game, ESPECIALLY being a melee class. The feeling of hitting a target with your weapon just doesn't have that feel when you're not doing any damage while you wait for the Global Cool down and/or the cool down of your special abilities.

 

I would also like to see someway to decrease your GCD. I really just feel like I'm always fighting with some sort of cool down leaving me feeling further disconnected from my character.

 

Anyways I like the idea of having abilities "strike" 2-3 times as a way to negate some of the GCD but it really is nothing to being able to que up abilities while you are doing white damage at the same time.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Horiizons

[baznasty]

I think I'd be okay with the idea of just re-labeling the abilities and editing the cast bars to accurately reflect how long it actually takes before you can cast another ability.

 

If that means something has a 5.2 second cast, but it's perfectly accurate and the cast bar reflects it and my ability bar "Lights up" so I can move to the next skill, then at least it'd be consistent.

 

Of course, I might be okay if they just made animations match existing cast times and GCD (just because faster's better

 

As crazy at it sounds: I'm ok with that too. If I know going into it that a spell will actually take 4 seconds to cast, I'd make a more informed decision on whether that spell is the proper spell for the situation.

 

What I don't like is when I am told it's a 2 second cast and then I find myself locked out of casting anything else for 4 seconds. I do not like being lied to.

Edited December 27, 2011 by baznasty

[Korialstrazs]

For the record, arrogance is for those who support universal negatives despite knowledge to the contrary. I understand your argument very well, and I still disagree with it. I am not ignorant, nor arrogant. I have different priorities in terms of what I consider "worse".

 

Right now, this thread would get it's way by destroying most combat animations. The lazy fix, which is more of a "gimp stick" really.

 

I would rather spend time, slowly fixing the combat animation/GC issue rather than removing a GC and destroying combat animations.

 

Is this so hard for you to understand without attacking me?

 

If they removed the global cooldown, it wouldn't change this issue at all. This has nothing to do with GCD, as evidenced by the fact that a gcd is present in WoW. Which has the flawless timing down perfectly. I'm willing to say that you're trolling at this point, and to avoid further warnings for calling you things that are evidently true I'm going to stop trying to educate you.

[samdbtto]

gonna upload a video in game showing off what would combat be like if animations stopped short to start next qued ability. I don't know why this particular combination causes the first animation to stop short to allow second one to come in, in a timely matter, but it does.

[Teloss]

I think I'd be okay with the idea of just re-labeling the abilities and editing the cast bars to accurately reflect how long it actually takes before you can cast another ability.

 

If that means something has a 5.2 second cast, but it's perfectly accurate and the cast bar reflects it and my ability bar "Lights up" so I can move to the next skill, then at least it'd be consistent.

 

Of course, I might be okay if they just made animations match existing cast times and GCD (just because faster's better

 

That would take time, but I doubt most in this thread would like that. Why make a real improvement when you can gimp everybody and lose half of your player base?

[ajjw]

Right now, this thread would get it's way by destroying most combat animations. The lazy fix, which is more of a "gimp stick" really.

Er, no. Fluid gameplay > pretty looks. Besides, WoW's combat animations looks awesome, even with the overriding.

[Teloss]

Er, no. Fluid gameplay > pretty looks. Besides, WoW's combat animations looks awesome, even with the overriding.

 

I fail to see how you can have one without the other and be content in this age of gaming. Is it so bad that BW tried to expand the bar and combine them? How about we, not take a step back. I would rather have good fluidity, and good animation, over great fluidity and poor animation.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Teloss

[Xeikai]

What WoW does is allow you to cast even during the finishing animation for your last cast, Say you casted frostbolt, and you casted it again immediately after it's 2.0 sec casting time was done. THe casting would finish, the mage would extend their hand and throw the frostbolt. but while you were tapping the frostbolt key, fight as the cast time finished. You would get another frostbolt that would start during the finishing animation of the last frostbolt. This is the kinda responsiveness we're talking about here, In SWTOR, you cannot cast another ability till your animation finishes, which ontop of the input delay makes the game feel EXTREMELY sluggish and unresponsive. IMO it should be biowares top priority to fix this. Normally i don't chime in on these types of threads, but this needs to be addressed with haste. Before people get so frustrated that they stop playing.

[ajjw]

You ignore my points about adjusting cast times to fit animations and how Alacrity is useless when locked to animation.

This.

[baznasty]

What WoW does is allow you to cast even during the finishing animation for your last cast, Say you casted frostbolt, and you casted it again immediately after it's 2.0 sec casting time was done. THe casting would finish, the mage would extend their hand and throw the frostbolt. but while you were tapping the frostbolt key, fight as the cast time finished. You would get another frostbolt that would start during the finishing animation of the last frostbolt. This is the kinda responsiveness we're talking about here, In SWTOR, you cannot cast another ability till your animation finishes, which ontop of the input delay makes the game feel EXTREMELY sluggish and unresponsive. IMO it should be biowares top priority to fix this. Normally i don't chime in on these types of threads, but this needs to be addressed with haste. Before people get so frustrated that they stop playing.

 

This is exactly right. In WoW the animation is finishing WHILE the next moves cast time is starting. It make everything seem organic and responsive.

[ajjw]

I fail to see how you can have one without the other and be content in this age of gaming. Is it so bad that BW tried to expand the bar and combine them? How about we, not take a step back.

Take WoW's combat. It's incredibly fluid. It also looks awesome, animation wise. This game looks awesome. It is not fluid.

 

"How about we, not take a step back".

 

My dear, but we have.

[Volksworgen]

take wow's combat. It's incredibly fluid. It also looks awesome, animation wise. This game looks awesome. It is not fluid.

 

"how about we, not take a step back".

 

My dear, but we have.

 

lol +1

[Horiizons]

What WoW does is allow you to cast even during the finishing animation for your last cast, Say you casted frostbolt, and you casted it again immediately after it's 2.0 sec casting time was done. THe casting would finish, the mage would extend their hand and throw the frostbolt. but while you were tapping the frostbolt key, fight as the cast time finished. You would get another frostbolt that would start during the finishing animation of the last frostbolt. This is the kinda responsiveness we're talking about here, In SWTOR, you cannot cast another ability till your animation finishes, which ontop of the input delay makes the game feel EXTREMELY sluggish and unresponsive. IMO it should be biowares top priority to fix this. Normally i don't chime in on these types of threads, but this needs to be addressed with haste. Before people get so frustrated that they stop playing.

Yes, after playing a mage for years you are absolutely correct. We need this in TOR BAD. The smooth motion of casting a spell before you finish the animation, whether it be instant or with a cast time

[Teloss]

Take WoW's combat. It's incredibly fluid. It also looks awesome, animation wise. This game looks awesome. It is not fluid.

 

"How about we, not take a step back".

 

My dear, but we have.

 

Yes, if paying respect to the full combat animation to allow the game to remain balanced, and DPS outputs to be less gimped towards 2-3 ability centric spamming, then I would indeed call this a step back.

 

What was I thinking, why don't we all kneel to our great overlord blizzard, and learn from how they made half of their abilities useless for the sake of what "looks" to be more fluid combat, when in fact it is a degraded, highly gimped version of vanilla.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Teloss

[Coldnik]

Delay is really annoying, but buggy-sloppy castbar even makes it worse.

[Pharlan]

I tottaly agree with this post. As a melee, while i do enjoy the aesthetic that is animation syncing when the sabers clash and such like a real duel, the fact that the animations have to finish before anything else can be inputted really throws off any meaningful rotation.

 

I have to watch my back stabs wind up a couple times as if the server is trying to make the other character perform an animation to either block it or whatever. It really slows things down allot.