Stop Making Main Hand Weapons So Difficult To Obtain

[Drockter]

Except there is no 186 MH weapon which is the point I'm trying to make. At the very least, they can put in something to be bought with basic and elite comms and/or have weapons drop from HM flashpoint bosses as well. They don't need to be so damn stingy about them.

 

Ahhhh.... I see now... you are correct, there is no 186 main hand...

 

Here is what I did... I bought a second off hand, stripped out what I needed and put it into an adaptive mainhand (in my case (Sage Seer), I bought a off hand focus and crafted the 186 hilt.

 

If you are on the JC server and need a 186 hilt, look me up... I am happy to craft it for the purple mats alone (provided I have the other mats available), and ask for nothing extra.

[TheSeventhJedi]

I don't think that a MH is difficult to obtain anymore (I have all the crafting schematics - it's simple to make one,) I'm just confused as to the logic of not including them at pretty much any comms vendor. I mean, if the incentive is to do ops, why does the comms vendor have EVERYTHING else? I mean, I guess there aren't any relics there either - but what decides which gear gets included? I mean, the MH I have from beating Revan is better than one I'd get from comms (or crafting), so the incentive would still be there. I think it all just seems very arbitrary.

[curulz]

If you are on the JC server and need a 186 hilt, look me up... I am happy to craft it for the purple mats alone (provided I have the other mats available), and ask for nothing extra.

 

Same if you're on shadowlands. Heck, I will even provide the purple mats. I've been hoarding those like crazy, I have more than enough

[FerkWork]

I'm confused by what people are wanting from Solo questing or vendor. Is it a Hilt/Barrel 186 that is easily crafted (Just RE Green to Blue to Purple requires only 2 of Purps) a 190 which I Believe comes from Ziost. 192, which would make Revan irrelevant as a source of MH. Or better? Clearing this confusion up will help.

[FerkWork]

Ahhhh.... I see now... you are correct, there is no 186 main hand...

 

Here is what I did... I bought a second off hand, stripped out what I needed and put it into an adaptive mainhand (in my case (Sage Seer), I bought a off hand focus and crafted the 186 hilt.

 

If you are on the JC server and need a 186 hilt, look me up... I am happy to craft it for the purple mats alone (provided I have the other mats available), and ask for nothing extra.

 

Also JC here, can make any Hilt of 186 Quality and a 192 Might one of you have the purple.

[FerkWork]

I don't think that a MH is difficult to obtain anymore (I have all the crafting schematics - it's simple to make one,) I'm just confused as to the logic of not including them at pretty much any comms vendor. I mean, if the incentive is to do ops, why does the comms vendor have EVERYTHING else? I mean, I guess there aren't any relics there either - but what decides which gear gets included? I mean, the MH I have from beating Revan is better than one I'd get from comms (or crafting), so the incentive would still be there. I think it all just seems very arbitrary.

 

Because unlike Comm gear which has horrible Enhacements, lettered Mods, and no set bonus, Hilts are the same regardless of source and only differ by level. I believe the lack of 186 MH was continuing the tradition of giving crafters a boon at the beginning of Xpac. Same reason why you can't get Optomized Enhacements from vendors.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

You used to be able too, but they have slot restricted most of those now.

 

I'm all for some basic Main Hand weapons being sold for comms, even if they are a bit lower rating then crafted/ops drops, if only for the fact I'd like to equip my companions with some not fugly weapons like we get on Yavin.

 

Mods and enhancements arent slot restricted, just armor, hilts. I swap my mods and enhancements all over in my pieces, the only limitation is, you cant say take a armor out of a chest piece and put it in legs.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

 

You used "work" in the context of it being a job. Unless you're a game tester then that would be a job but for the majority of players it's a hobby.

 

Use the correct context next time.

 

No he really didnt, you just used the word out of context to support the age old, and lame excuse of I dont want to "work" to achieve something it is a game not a job. No matter what game you play, you work to reach the end, or get an achievement or finish a story.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

No he really didnt, you just used the word out of context to support the age old, and lame excuse of I dont want to "work" to achieve something it is a game not a job. No matter what game you play, you work to reach the end, or get an achievement or finish a story.

 

Thank you. Glad to know the whole world hasn't gone mad.

[dscount]

Mods and enhancements arent slot restricted, just armor, hilts. I swap my mods and enhancements all over in my pieces, the only limitation is, you cant say take a armor out of a chest piece and put it in legs.

 

Actually... one exception is the 204 mainhand on new HM Ziost Boss. They locked down the barrel/hilt, MOD and Enhancement to Weapon only. So you can't go BIS your other gear. Was a good move on BW part to let folks get a nice Mainhand (after some work of course.)

[Quraswren]

It doesn't drive me to do that. I get the gear I have for my characters via the type of play I do: casual. I don't care what gear rating or set bonuses Johnny Raider has.

 

Then you have no reason to care about alternate ways to get gear when it's not BIS. But we all know there are a **** load of gamers that cannot run OPS in any skilled capacity. There needs to be an avenue for them as well or you eventually lose them as gamers. It doesn't have to be 204 or even 198 gear, just an alternate path and it can still have a challenge or be "work"

 

When a MMO like SWTOR is made with gearing progression like most are. It's best to provide more options than just raiding alone. It doesn't have to be BIS either.

 

Stagnant? Do top-tier content, get top-tier gear. In that order.

 

then I guess you take gear from those places as well because after all, it makes things easier. Once you have done the content and seen the story and beat the boss. You're returning for gear and some social interaction but gear plays a part. It plays a part for all gamers. Just because some don't or cannot run ops in no way means gear isn't still a driving force in an mmo game.

 

Have some alternate paths through game play. Crafting in SWTOR isn't good enough to support it give it's design and OPS running just isn't broad enough to cast a net on most gamers.

 

You can easily get a 186 MH via crafting. If you don't care about running content that requires better than that, the only reason to want better than that is so you can say "Hey, I have better than that." Fair enough, I supposed, since it's just a game, but not very compelling.

 

You can get that from crafting but I wouldn't mind seeing a way for non-ops gamers to get 190 or even 196 depending on the content or how it’s delivered.

 

Hell, they probably need all the help they can get anyway and we all know many are never completing the hardest raids no matter what gear is out there. They just don't have the skill but I have no problem with giving then a better chance at trying. And as a side effect, it might make pug groups run a bit smoother.

 

ASSUMPTION ALARM!! ASSUMPTION ALARM!!

 

There are tons of player who could care less about getting higher levels of gear:

- RPers care about the look and syle of gear and not the stats

- Many single player only content exclusive players only care that they have the gear they need to get through the content

 

and if that were really true, they would still be using beginning level 60 gear and never upgrading.

 

We know that is simply not true. You take the next best upgrade and you, like most every mmo gamer has been doing that since you first logged in.

 

I could go on, but the point is your assumption makes no sense. I could care less about getting higher level gear in and of itself. That's certainly not why I game. I game to have fun. Higher gear is a means to an end to play the content I find fun, nothing more. It is not the ends it is only the means. That is why people don't understand why people want the means if they don't care about the end.

 

Then if the option is available. DONT DO IT. You can stay happy where you are.

 

Stick with the gear you have. For most MMO gamers, there is a drive to get better and better gear even if they never reach BIS gear. There is no reason to not allow some different paths to even slight upgrades.

 

They care about better gear because it makes all things easier. A lot easier for better players but thats beside the point. Gamers want to be more efficient in what they do, no matter what they do. Having more options to obtain even a slight upgrade is better than what SWTOR offers in crafting or having upgrades only in OPS.

 

But the only thing missing is a way to get the BiS MH barrel or hilt without doing ops... the mod, enhancement, and crystal can be obtained through comms or the GTN fairly easily.

 

Basically, right now the only thing you can *only* get from operations is a 198+ MH barrel or hilt. To that I say, it's fine that you have to do operations to get that one specific mod.

 

With 204 now being the new go to. 198's are second fiddle but still hard to get really. Which brings me back to it doesn't have to be BIS either way or even 198 but why can there not be alternate non-ops options for content that still offers a challenge for say 190 or 196.

 

If 204 MH's are not putting reven out of business anyway. I can't see a reason not to give some gamers a leg up in alternate gear progression.

 

Truthfully it is fine but I also think there should be some alternatives to play into the gear grind that the game itself is designed for. One avenue really just isn't enough and SWTOR crafting is pretty bad when even thinking about a slight gear progression.

[Ghisallo]

Quoted for truth

 

It is only truth if you look at the reality and not through the false lense of the "casual vs raider" trope.

 

The lense you should use is one where you see how devs make limited content last longer. One of the ways of doing this, in a game with gear progression, is by matching dps/hps to the content itself. Now if they hadn't nerfed the stuffing out of HM Flashpoints (and really made them a little tougher) having said weapons would make sense outside of a raid zone. Without that though it would contribute to a complete trivialization of the content.

 

This is the reason raid weapons are that much better. NOT so a raider can pose on fleet with his shiny main hand, rather because the mobs after he has obtained that main hand will require it due to mechanics checks.

 

That said again...192 hilts and barrels can be crafted. The new world boss drops a damn nice weapon. So the weapons are there for non-ops runners, within the context of the necessities of game design.

[Leovinus]

It is only truth if you look at the reality and not through the false lense of the "casual vs raider" trope.

 

 

This is the reason raid weapons are that much better. NOT so a raider can pose on fleet with his shiny main hand, rather because the mobs after he has obtained that main hand will require it due to mechanics checks.

 

Interesting theory, but you fell victim to the classic mistake. Devs design dps checks around whatever gear they choose. Nothing says the check needs to be around the best gear except traditional raiding mentality. The only thing preventing them from making all levels of content require the same gear is they know vocal parts of each segment of the player base would throw a hissy fit that there is no progression.

 

And we all know you won't need the 198 barrels/hilts for the next thing unless they happen to do a NiM, but it certainly isn't necessary for the top tier now considering it drops off the hardest boss that currently exists.

[Ghisallo]

Interesting theory, but you fell victim to the classic mistake. Devs design dps checks around whatever gear they choose. Nothing says the check needs to be around the best gear except traditional raiding mentality. The only thing preventing them from making all levels of content require the same gear is they know vocal parts of each segment of the player base would throw a hissy fit that there is no progression.

 

And we all know you won't need the 198 barrels/hilts for the next thing unless they happen to do a NiM, but it certainly isn't necessary for the top tier now considering it drops off the hardest boss that currently exists.

 

No I am looking at it as the devs from various other MMOs I know personally have told me to look at it.

 

I started in MMOs as a straight up RPer. Heck I was playin EQ2 for 2 years before I stopped wearing and using "mastercrafted" gear. Heck in this game I didn't start running OPs regularly (one night a week for 2 hours) until last week. So your veiled cut that I had a "raider" mentality missed completely. I know that making such statements helps to create the appearance of a moral high ground..."the nice casual player vs the selfish elitist raider" BUT you just engaged in a friendly fire incident as I am casual in my play.

 

I know devs who have worked games like EQ, EQ2, and Rift, and the following is what THEY told me....

 

After people hit max level you still need a reason for the to play...this is when Gear Progression starts. They designed the gear and the content hand in hand because they want the content itself to also have an internal progression. If you can just blast through all of the content (regardless of type) you get the gear faster. When you get the gear faster you then blow through the content even faster. It essentially creates an accelerating cycle of completing content which accelerates how fast people reach the "been there, done that" stage and move onto another game. Due to people wanting to get to end game level faster they have, over time, been forced to actually put a BIGGER gear grind in to address this dynamic.

 

This may be inconvenient for your position. You may say it is a "raiders" mentality, BUT even if it is, it is also the mentality of every MMO Dev I have ever spoken with, and/or had a beer with, that works on a game with gear based progression. Yes they could do what you suggest BUT this would, as you note, remove a sense of progression inside the content (the next mob being more challenging). The lack of this progression then making it faster for people to clear stuff, thus having people get bored faster, thus they stop playing and in stopping their play they stop their PAY and this is about the Devs getting PAID.

 

Love it or hate it, I do not make that call myself, but the above is the way the DEVS think. Sorry.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Ghisallo]

PS I do not think it is a raider's mentality using the stereotype you choose to use however. The stereotypical raider in that context would just say "I work harder...I should earn better gear", in essence a questionable sense of entitlement.

 

The dynamic I discuss is VERY different from that.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Grayseven]

It's called "The carrot and the stick".

 

The carrot, in this case, is a main hand above what is available through "solo" play.

 

The stick is what you have to do to get the carrot...i.e. what is keeping that main hand away from you.

 

You don't want to do operations, you don't want to "interact" with crafters...so what exactly do you want to do to earn it?

 

Gear progression follows certain rules. These have existed as long as gear progression has existed. What you are asking for goes outside of those rules.

 

The only people who need better gear are the ones continuing to tackle harder content. They are the only people who need better gear. Everyone else simply wants it...for whatever reason. The path to getting that gear is set, easy to understand and available to anyone willing to put forth the effort (effort being used in place of work so people don't try to argue semantics in order to bolster an otherwise untenable argument).

 

Main Hands, being the greatest upgrade, will always require the most effort to obtain. For example, the 204 main hand dropping off the new Ziost boss in Hard Mode...not an easy fight. I personally find the fight to be "over the top" as far as the sheer number of mechanics going on at one time and the propensity for wipes due to RNG but hey, that's my opinion.

 

Basically, you are asking for a handout. You probably want main hands purchasable through basic or elite comms. But in order to ensure there is a balance in effort you'd have to spend more comms than you can currently have at one time.

 

It's not what you want to hear, but without the carrot and stick approach there would be no reason for the majority of players to even bother to log in.

[FerkWork]

186 Hilts/Barrels are like 50k on my server lol. Plus Ziost gives you 190. Lol this isn't really an issue.

[Ghisallo]

186 Hilts/Barrels are like 50k on my server lol. Plus Ziost gives you 190. Lol this isn't really an issue.

 

Your right... it isn't.

 

What it REALLY comes down to, imo, is the idea of "I pays the same money he does why can he get something that way and I can't?" The problem is the do so because they are myopically looking at what their character is wearing vs someone else and not the WHY of it. The Why of it is simply that in a game with gear progression, the various content types are tuned to various levels of gear. Introduce the top gear into a "lesser" content type and you trivialize said content and damage replayability... the existence of which is necessary for an MMO to maintain profitability over the medium to long term.

[Ultraconrad]

As a solo, guild-less and (generally) satisfied player since open Beta, I found this thread to be of particular interest because time and again I share OP's concern over the difficulty of acquiring main-hand upgrades. For example, I feared the escalating challenge of new content, using Columi/Xeno gear from PUGs without a main hand upgrade would be difficult. Sometime around 2.0 I learned about the power of Guild-backed crafters that could run "endless" Ops and RE the parts I wanted, then sell them for mats + tips or post them on the GTN. The latter was more appealing, strange as it sounds, because that way I didn't have to do FPs for rare mats (people tend to get upset when you click "need" for stuff that isn't obviously a need).

 

I still have concerns about the difficulty of current "solo-able" content vs. the availability of main hand upgrades, which are not allayed by the "content-appropriate availability" and "content progression" arguments. That said, I accept that unless I want to get involved in a guild (whose drama and general madness leave me cold) that I have a (necessary?) ceiling for upgrade availability in order for devs to keep this game profitable.

 

TL;DR Take what you get - buy parts or play for them.

[Jeweledleah]

Yep.

 

And it took me 12 for the resolve hilt :c

But one each for Aim and Cunning lol

 

well... aim and cunning and strength can actualy be procured from RE-ing offhand barrels. its the willpower as well as endurance heavy barrels/hilts that are rough. but... I tend to just give my tanks dps barrels/hilts anyways. cheaper, easier and i can make up minor endurance loss elsewhere.

[Slipfeed]

I"m going to say what everyone is thinking, and no one is saying here.

 

Running ops in this game means dealing with total A-Holes. Usually beta's trying to be alpha's. That person that is always arguing just for the point of arguing, and constantly moving the goal post when he's backed into a corner.

 

That guy / girl that will fly into a fit of rage if you don't find a way to let them feel like they "won". Won what you ask? Who fraking knows.

 

This game seems to have a much higher concentration of those people than other games we play.

 

And so, these individuals are not asking for BIS gear without running ops, but some kind of (any kind of) content based upgrade end game.

 

Because the point isn't to have the best stuff. The point is to keep playing the game without having to deal with "that guy".

[Sardorim]

I hate how the Barrel is locked out in the vendors.

 

Stupid Offhand lock.

[Hebruixe]

I"m going to say what everyone is thinking, and no one is saying here.

 

Running ops in this game means dealing with total A-Holes.

 

Yep. I have little tolerance for elitist nerd rage. I wish group activities were designed to encourage more friendly/casual interaction.

[PavSalco]

Yep. I have little tolerance for elitist nerd rage. I wish group activities were designed to encourage more friendly/casual interaction.

 

Play on RP servers. I rarely see bad behaviour in ops.

[Leklor]

My issue is not so much with upgrade than with looks.

I mean, of course I use modifiable gear but sometimes I just want to pick a new look from basic/elite coms. Problem is, as I mostly play Sentinel and Gunslinger, I either have to stick with my current weapons (I always use identical pairs) or have two weapons that don't match since off-hands can be bought and main-hands cannot.

So yeah, I'd like comms vendor to sell appropriate main hands whenever possible. I'm not asking for Ops level gear for free or anything, just the possibility to have a full matching PvE set.