Grayseven Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Only for the premades. As it stands now, people stop queuing in regs due to rampaging stacked premades, causing queue times to spike for everybody anyway, so this is a win / win as far as I'm concerned. Wrong. If there is a solo queue, and my guild queues on PvP night, we will still be grouped together. It happens a lot already and then you'll be claiming hax because 4-8 players from the same guild are in the same group in the solo queue. You'll still face the same things you do right now. You're right, because premades won't queue against each other. This has been proven countless times. As far as groups that aren't "premades", they'd have to suffer due to the actions of the stacked premades that like to wreck the pug queues for hours at a time. Wrong again, and never proven either. When we have 4 4-man groups queuing for PvP we often see ourselves on opposite sides. We even queue groups on opposite factions in order to play against one another. It doesn't change anything. When we get matched against PuGs that act like a team we get just as much enjoyment and challenge. It's when we face an unorganized mob of 8 PuGs each doing their own thing without a single thought about tactics and objectives that we end up facerolling the match. Is it somehow our responsibility to rewards players who can't be bothered to work together just because we can? Are we supposed to somehow gimp ourselves in order to let 8 individuals have a chance when they can't be bothered to actually work as a team? Sorry, but all I see from the crowd that wants "solo" queues are players that don't want to be bothered with the inconvenience of teamwork when they PuG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) with all the balance and general matchmaking issues in this game right now, having a premade vs. pug discussion is pretty ridiculous. the former are far more pressing problems atm. asking for a FOURTH queue to divide the population further before even addressing the other two issues...man. please. just let this thread die. come back once BW pulls their heads our of the butts and implements balance and queue gates and some semblance of role matchmaking in regs . Edited May 22, 2015 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaRya Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 Repeatedly on Shadowlands if you queue solo you will often be on a team of all pugs versus a double premade. Assuming double premade because 6-8 people on the opposite team consist of two guild names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlightlySychotic Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 STOP Please, stop. We have been at this for three years, over ten thousand posts of two sides trying to blame the other. Everybody take a deep breath and repeat after me: "Everyone has a right to play the game the way they like to play." Group players have a right to play with their friends and solo players have a right to play with different people. No one is more social than than the other; saying solo players are loners who don't want to make friends is like saying group players are cliques who don't want to meet new people. There are players of all skill levels on both sides. We need to stop blaming each other. We need to start blaming the developers. There's a work around for this and they're just not implementing it. Two actually. The first is cross faction. The problem with premades is when they're always against you. With cross faction there's an even chance of premades landing on either side. Second, and I cannot stress this one enough, they need to add war zones to the ranked queues. There's a reason why these threads persist even though there actually is a solo queue: almost nobody likes to play arenas. Why else would people who are sick of premades stick to the general queues. Now, in the past I've received some blowback from group players that they don't want to play ranked with random groups. So, if they really don't want ranked war zones, fine. If you change your mind later, also fine. They do these two things and this argument goes away. I understand cross faction is a big project that will take a lot of time but it would be a worthwhile project (and a profitable one if done correctly). However, war zones can be added to ranked before the start of the next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 If your point is that you refuse to play as part of a team, then yeah, I proved it. Even if you solo queue and join 7 other PuGs, you HAVE to be part of the team. If you aren't, you will lose unless you get phenomenally lucky enough to face another PuG group also playing as 8 individuals. You "group up" every time you enter a WZ. They may not be friends or people you know, but they are your group and you have to act as part of the group or you will fail...every single time. You won't get "casual fun" in a group activity, which is what every single PvP match is. What you want is 1v1 death match arenas, where you don't have to use teamwork. I'm pretty sure you'll never get that. Whenever you enter a WZ you face the chance of playing against a team, whether they were pre-grouped before hand or were all solo queues who still play as a team. So what you are advocating for will never happen. Even in a "solo" queue, you will face teams and you will get just as owned because you refuse to understand what being part of a WZ team really is. Keep going, still proving my poiint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 STOP Please, stop. We have been at this for three years, over ten thousand posts of two sides trying to blame the other. Everybody take a deep breath and repeat after me: "Everyone has a right to play the game the way they like to play." Group players have a right to play with their friends and solo players have a right to play with different people. No one is more social than than the other; saying solo players are loners who don't want to make friends is like saying group players are cliques who don't want to meet new people. There are players of all skill levels on both sides. We need to stop blaming each other. We need to start blaming the developers. There's a work around for this and they're just not implementing it. Two actually. The first is cross faction. The problem with premades is when they're always against you. With cross faction there's an even chance of premades landing on either side. Second, and I cannot stress this one enough, they need to add war zones to the ranked queues. There's a reason why these threads persist even though there actually is a solo queue: almost nobody likes to play arenas. Why else would people who are sick of premades stick to the general queues. Now, in the past I've received some blowback from group players that they don't want to play ranked with random groups. So, if they really don't want ranked war zones, fine. If you change your mind later, also fine. They do these two things and this argument goes away. I understand cross faction is a big project that will take a lot of time but it would be a worthwhile project (and a profitable one if done correctly). However, war zones can be added to ranked before the start of the next season. Unfortunately you have people crusading against ANYTHING that will effect their current ability to farm regs without hinderance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Unfortunately you have people crusading against ANYTHING that will effect their current ability to farm regs without hinderance. I don't have to group with anyone to farm regs without hinderance. In fact I almost never group for PvP. Not sure what leads you to believe that a group is required to win at PvP, it's just a play style that some find to be more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Wrong again, and never proven either.. Taking aside the fact that other MMO's, such as Rift, tried a premade queue (due to this very same complaint), that never got used, just look at ranked in SWTOR. The fact that 4's never pops is more than enough proof. I've sat in ranked queue for hours on my Imp while three different Pub premades ran rampant in pugs (on Harbinger). 8's died, and 4's are practically dead, because 99% of premades exist only to farm regs. The only one wrong here, is you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmajamma Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Taking aside the fact that other MMO's, such as Rift, tried a premade queue (due to this very same complaint), that never got used, just look at ranked in SWTOR. The fact that 4's never pops is more than enough proof. I've sat in ranked queue for hours on my Imp while three different Pub premades ran rampant in pugs (on Harbinger). 8's died, and 4's are practically dead, because 99% of premades exist only to farm regs. The only one wrong here, is you. don't get it twisted homie. 4's are dead because that segment of the community is full of sh*t-talking adolescents who would rather farm rating than grow the 4's community. as far as the group queue thing, or just all queue 4's thing - it won't work because of class imbalance. if i want to play the classes i actually enjoy playing that aren't fotm in group, then a double hatred/double carbonize crew rolls through, it won't be fun to play. they would just be farming. how does that solve anything? get over yourself. the problem and solution aren't as black and white as you make them out to be. Edited May 22, 2015 by Jimmajamma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 get over yourself. the problem and solution aren't as black and white as you make them out to be. Premades should play against premades. That's as black and white as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Its a form of stupid sickness that affects all MMO developers, they think premade versus pug is fair. Then people who want to maintain an advantage chime in. But in any case this game is so fked up that there is not enough population to support more than one Q, whether it be for gear matchmaking or separating pugs from premades. If they were competent enough to implement XServer, then they could use a rotating Q that pulls 1 from each server, which would foil the fail players who are afraid to Q solo and Q sync. But the devs are too misguided and unskilled. PvP in this game is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaRya Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 Its a form of stupid sickness that affects all MMO developers, they think premade versus pug is fair. Then people who want to maintain an advantage chime in. But in any case this game is so fked up that there is not enough population to support more than one Q, whether it be for gear matchmaking or separating pugs from premades. If they were competent enough to implement XServer, then they could use a rotating Q that pulls 1 from each server, which would foil the fail players who are afraid to Q solo and Q sync. But the devs are too misguided and unskilled. PvP in this game is over. Five 8 v 8 matches in a row today were against the same farming premade. Two of the five were back fill (insta pop) not sure if a back fill counts as a match. Then the wz queue stopped I needed one more to complete the second daily. After twenty minutes a 4 v 4 YOLO wz became available it was against the very same premade. After the match I did a 'who' search and sure enough they were all on ilum most likely ganking. Slowly but surely our PVE server's population of pvp'ers is shrinking, oddly enough people say this guild came from a PVP server that was dying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaRya Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 bump Unranked warzones: And when you start to get good these premades start to individually focus you. Winning in huttball 6-0 isn't enough , they actually have to try to hunt down the few good players on the other team that might put up a fight. Well done bioware , I'll just keep leaving and re-queueing until I don't get one of the farming premades on the opposite team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whaitwhutwalrus Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Premades should play against premades. That's as black and white as it gets. Depends on how you define "premade". do you consider two people queing with each other to be a premade or does it have to be a group of four players queing with each other? (also do the four players have to be running a trinity group comp to qualify for fighting other premades?). A). solution As I've stated in a similar thread a way to counter fighting "premades" is to see who on your team is performing well and ask them if they want to group up with you (some of the time they will) and PRESTO you're in a team of players that you know are fairly competent at pvp. Now that you're grouped up with decent players you should stand a fighting chance verses the premade that has been "stomping" you while in a pug. (now if your team still loses you've got to face the facts that you either go out played, or that the other team is more coordinated via coms, or the other teams group composition is better than yours, or you're not as good as you thought you were.) Either way premade groups are not the "MAIN" reason that pvp is dying, it's just not that simple. I'd wager that the lack of content, toxic community (not everyone but some bad apples) , and lack of class balance would out weigh the witch hunt after premade groups. As for myself i usually que solo or with my homie jimmajamma. 2 people premade ftw? - Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) 2 people out of 8 does not a premade make. Often those 2 people are just friends that want to play together, and could both be DPS. They probably don't communicate by any other means than chat. This is fine and I have no problem with that. But running up against 4 people that clearly know what they are doing, and have 1 healer an possible also a tank? Insta-quit. We had a 4-team premade on our side yesterday on TRE (2 sins, 1 op-healer and 1 I forget). And this was midbies and they where of course all +55 or something like that. We obliterated the other team. I think the other team managed to hold onto their pylon for one round... no fun for either side and I said as much in chat With cross-server queues you could: Ensure that the same approximate levels and classes are present on both sides even in low-midbies. This way you will not be at a disadvantage even if you team consists of 8 commandos as the other team will also consist of 8 commandos. Several different queues. Want to single queue? No problem! Premades will only ever face other premades. They have a 4-team premade and 4 pugs? No problem you have the same on your team - may the best team win! POPs! So many pops! You can single / group ranked ALL day with insta-pops all the time! Glory! And the list could go on. Cross server queues is the life blood this game needs. Edited June 3, 2015 by Lundorff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 /signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuaRya Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 A team of two not really an issue. If they are queue synching with another to form 4, 6, or 8 ? Wouldn't surprise me. Now that school is out for the kids: we have almost non-stop pug versus premade starting at noon on Shadowlands server. Every match is lopsided. The pugs feeling big in one match are humiliated the next when they aren't on the premade side. Since the premades use all FOTM classes and know all the cheap moves like the Operative ledge jump in huttball into the in zone or how to focus/stun on just one person that is causing them trouble, there's very little to do other than leave (they like that) or take the 4 versus 1 beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 A team of two not really an issue. If they are queue synching with another to form 4 q-synhing is debatablle as an exploit. super-Qing (q-synching AND dropping if you don't get your desired partner grp) is unquestionably an exploit. although many will wrongly argue against the fact either out of ignorance or self-interest. but what caused me to reply was the statement that a grp of two might try to synch with another grp of 2 to make 4 players ostensibly grp'd together. you know...they don't need to do anything so intricate. the game condones grps of 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whaitwhutwalrus Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 q-synhing is debatablle as an exploit. super-Qing (q-synching AND dropping if you don't get your desired partner grp) is unquestionably an exploit. although many will wrongly argue against the fact either out of ignorance or self-interest. but what caused me to reply was the statement that a grp of two might try to synch with another grp of 2 to make 4 players ostensibly grp'd together. you know...they don't need to do anything so intricate. the game condones grps of 4. Pretty much what he said, i was not stating that a group of 2 was a premade but rather was asking what his definition of a premade is. Now that i know that you guys (Huahua and vember) are having issues with a premade running the "fotm" classes we can work from there. (and honestly if they're real "FOTMS" they're not always going to be too great anyways). Again reiterating my point the way to counter premades is to find a group of friends/competent players that you've noticed in wzs to counter said premade. Now assuming that you're all relatively competent pvpers you should be able to compete with most premade groups at this point, (depending on your/their group composition). Or if you choose to only que solo then that's on you for digging your own grave. Having a separate ques for solo/premade groups in regs would not solve the issue in the slightest, the people who run premades with the purpose of farming novices/under prepared groups will find a way around it and you'll be back where you started with nothing getting accomplished. Then you would also have issues with the group que with groups of slightly less skill being farmed by the same groups that you've got a problem with. (the reason they've made it so that you can only group in a group of 4 was to prevent an 8 man premade from controlling pvp however as I've stated groups have found a way around that by simply que synching) The important thing is that even if you're on the winning/losing side that you're having a good time, don't get set on winning every wz and try not to always blame "premades" for that fact that you've lost a match. I've been in plenty of pug matches where we've been put fighting premades and have come up on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluvi Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Solo Q already ruined Ranked pvp, now you want to ruin regs as well I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluvi Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Alternatively, they could just allow 8 man vs 8 man regs again. You know, ranked basically. Sadly the solution for you is: get gud, get friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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