MMORPG's work like this

[Enako]

The most common thing I'm hearing on these forums is that Bioware should of been able to produce a game with similar polish to that of WoW.

 

polish means nothing.

 

back in 1990s, we were playing games despite our dos-based early pcs had been freezing/crashing on us every 1-2 hours. rebooting, restarting, reloading - sometimes not being able to reload but redoing all stuff in game.

 

windows 95 came, and all the games that were tied to it - our computers were resetting at random times, even more so with games. yet we kept playing.

 

you know why ? because games were more fun than today. games were focused on producing fun/curious gameplay, as opposed to be tailored to take a certain amount of time to 'complete' or 'beat' like today.

 

but now today, games are (or were) being made to inevitably and non-optionally take a certain amount of time to 'beat' nomatter what you do - the 'beating' of the game and the time it takes to do that was the basis for games. since that takes away the fun from the games, polish has become something that pokes the eye when not around.

 

in short, something burdensome and boring becomes irritating with the lack of polish. that does not make a polished grindfest, anything better.

[Jagerinho]

Yeah, that's the way it *should* be, but in the world of business your consumers don't care about the way it should be. They care about the way it is. It's unrealistic to expect otherwise.

 

It always has been like this though, its ignorance, nothing more

[lollermittens]

As someone who has played every major, and most minor, MMO releases since UO, some of you people are seriously delusional.

 

SWTOR is one of the cleanest and most polished MMO launches in history.

 

If you played Anarchy Online at release, you'd understand what a buggy game was. And speaking of bugs, WoW was a mess at release, and still to this day has bugs that have been in the game since release....like not dropping out of combat long after you've dropped out of combat for instance.

 

I run the game for hours at a time with no issues, when I log back on my character is in the same state that I left it, that in and of itself constitutes a good MMO release.

 

Not sure what it is about MMOs that always attracts these "the sky is falling" type of personalities, but the hyperbole gets pretty laughable.

 

Yes because comparing the launch of an MMO that almost come out 10 years ago to that of a game coming out in almost 2012 is completely logical.

 

Bioware/Mythic (the fail developers who made Warhammer Online) have their signature all over this game: it lacks native capabilities and functionalities and focused its efforts on creating a SP game with a few MMo features.

 

Anybody who can't see beyond this is still in the honeymoon phase or is just another SW fanboy who will never dare criticize the game.

[DarkZenith]

SWTOR is one of the cleanest and most polished MMO launches in history.

 

Bingo.

 

I've been in quite a few, and I have to say, this is probably the best I have seen to date. No idea why some people are predicting doom and gloom; if crap like SWG managed to last nearly 6 years, I see no reason why an awesome game like this should fail.

Edited December 26, 2011 by DarkZenith

[krisslanza]

I've mentioned it all down and up this forum. But WoW has ruined MMOs for years to come. It's set an impossible standard.

 

People somehow expect any new MMO to launch with as many features and as much content as WoW - even though WoW has been out for, what, a good 7+ years now? Also people seem to complain that all these new MMOs have "such buggy launches" and praise WoW for having such a perfect launch.

 

They seem to forget that WoW's launch was riddled with bugs and disasters. They even had to radically do things to the game - such as removing any form of cross-faction communication when they realized the two sides couldn't play nice. Yet many gamers seem to ignore this and just say WoW launched flawlessly, instead of just as shaky as all other MMO releases.

 

I just wish people would stop comparing everything to WoW, but it just won't happen. I sometimes wish WoW was never made, or that it was a flop, and we could wonder what kind of games could've came around if developers didn't feel pressured to copy/paste WoW to get sales/praise.

[Jagerinho]

Yes because comparing the launch of an MMO that almost come out 10 years ago to that of a game coming out in almost 2012 is completely logical.

 

Bioware/Mythic (the fail developers who made Warhammer Online) have their signature all over this game: it lacks native capabilities and functionalities and focused its efforts on creating a SP game with a few MMo features.

 

Anybody who can't see beyond this is still in the honeymoon phase or is just another SW fanboy who will never dare criticize the game.

 

Technology hasn't developed that much you moron. Time is still an obstacle here, regardless of what year it is....

 

"bioware/mythic have their signature all over this game"

 

zzzzz, a non-factual statement.

[PeacefulViolence]

Considering this game just launched, it is the highest quality MMO ever made, WoW wasn't even close when it came out back in 04, with that being said, keep dreaming that this game is going to "die". Bioware invested around 150 million into this game making it the most expensive game ever developed, you think they're just going to let that go to waste? They will do whatever it takes to make this the best MMO out there and all you haters put a sock in it already, stop playing the game and stop posting on the forums, you aren't helping Bioware make the game better in any way, every thread is the same old "Waah waah waah, this game mechanic is really dumb" and "The game doesn't have this and this" and lets not forget "This game is going to die after the 30 free days!!!" You know what, why don't you tell Bioware how to save the game from death if you are so gosh darn smart, it was funny reading these threads at first, now it's just really really sad.

 

Oh and an MMO doesn't need to have the most players of all MMO's on the market to be successful you stupid punks.

Edited December 26, 2011 by PeacefulViolence

[MaDLock]

Because expensive games are always the best games..

 

@ OP

 

I will be reminiscing about how I was there in the beginning, back in the days when the game was not f2p.

[Meharial]

What most people don't get is it's not about "polish" when it comes to bugs and imbalance issues. Those we all expect from any MMO launch. It's "polish" the same way expecting a new car to have paint on it is "polish." Features that are part and parcel of most games since the dawn of MMOs that are missing for what seems like no reason at all. Does scaleable UI detract from the game? Does chat boxes? Does the ability to queue crafting? A working community tool? (and no, for people that will invariably jump on that as asking for a dungeon finder or some such nonsense, a simple LFG window would suffice. We have zilch.) Is there any reason at all why they aren't there?

 

If given the same time contraints and more money than nearly every other single game period does not equal an ability to make sure that you have the basics, then something is wrong. Not saying it's a bad game. But after launch is for patching bugs, fixing imbalances and eventually adding content. Not putting in features that should, for all intents and purposes, have already been there. (I would like to see someone honestly defend the announcement that UI was going to be a post-launch feature. Your USER INTERFACE is something you aren't even going to bother completing before the public gets a hold of it? WTH?)

[Papazooki]

3rd expansion?

 

I'm sorry sir but it's gonna be a miracle if there's even 1 expansion by the way things are looking.

 

They didn't even make enough money out of preorders to cover up costs and free month is over "soon". Once it is how many do you think will keep subbing after seeing this isn't really an MMO.

 

 

What am I reading?

 

No, really.. what am I reading? I had to read that twice.

 

Is this real life?

[StormDragonlord]

I'm not asking for a perfect launch, nor to have 100+ hours of content or anything of that sort, I just wish they placed more time in combat fluidity and responsiveness, right now with the GCD bugs, combat delay and animations disapearing when casting sometimes it feels very clunky and slow, the combat, when this happens, and it happens very often. That's all I'm asking for.. I've even played Free 2 Play Minor MMOs that the combat feels much more smooth because there is no delay like here.

 

I don't know if WoW had such horrendous combat delay in it's launch, but this is the second MMO (first being Warhammer, but for some reason it wasn't as notable as in this game) that the combat feels very unresponsive. And that is something they should completely prioritize to fix.

Edited December 26, 2011 by StormDragonlord

[Mashy]

3rd expansion?

 

I'm sorry sir but it's gonna be a miracle if there's even 1 expansion by the way things are looking.

 

They didn't even make enough money out of preorders to cover up costs and free month is over "soon". Once it is how many do you think will keep subbing after seeing this isn't really an MMO.

 

 

The best part of the free month expiring will be the fact that you won't be here and the rest of us can enjoy the game. You do nothing but spout negative crap about this game and seem to be on a crusade to see it destroyed. Sounds like you have been owned good and hard in PvP and are now trying to convince people that the game is worthless because you can't one shot everyone like you did in WoW on your Mage. man I feel sorry for you. Your life must be one big pile of negativity day in and day out.

[ScytheReaper]

22nd. Also, Christmas presents ..really? This isn't really the game to gift to your kids, have you seen the kind of choices you get while playing a sith? Implied mass violence like this is even worse than visual one.

 

Anyway.

 

why are you still here?. Just leave. You have no purpose here at all. What you say implies you like WoW so go there.

 

This game feels like an MMO to me. So I don't know where your going with that. I've done a great many flashpoints/dungeons and I group constantly. I also PvP.

 

Have you even seen the server listing? There are a LOT of servers all mostly heavy, very heavy, or full.

 

everyone I talk to in game loves their time with it and won't be going anywhere.

 

Its also the most critically acclaimed game (MMO) since WoW and has achieved multiple awards. And WoW was created years ago when the entire genre wasn't saturated.

 

I dare say if WoW were to be rated again by todays standards its scores would be far less grand.

 

I believe a great many will be playing this after the free month is over. Especially since, like I said, everyone I talk to in game is enjoying themselves.

 

Most people don't just play only because its a free month actually. If they didn't enjoy it they would play something else regardless if its free or not this month.

 

You complain that it doesn't feel like an MMO yet it certainly does to me. So maybe your playing Knights of the old republic? This is just THE OLD REPUBLIC.

 

You must have bought the wrong game.

[joshohelp]

seeing this isn't really an MMO.

 

ehat makes a real MMO, WOW was not the only MMO.. i have played many MMOs with instancing it's for server balance and mob balance.. stop whining in your mind m8

[Theodwulf]

WoW's launch was freaking years ago...TOR is NOT competing with WoW vanilla at Launch, it's competing with a super polished MMO jugernaut..So enough with the false equivelence arguments , they aren't valid without a time machine...

 

 

It doesn't matter what WoW was years ago...It matters what WOW and TOR are today

[Jaku]

WoW's launch was freaking years ago...TOR is NOT competing with WoW vanilla at Launch, it's competing with a super polished MMO jugernaut..So enough with the false equivelence arguments , they aren't valid without a time machine...

 

 

It doesn't matter what WoW was years ago...It matters what WOW and TOR are today

 

I don't believe that was his point. He was saying that MMO's are polished over time, no matter what year they are released.

[VelJharig]

3rd expansion?

 

I'm sorry sir but it's gonna be a miracle if there's even 1 expansion by the way things are looking.

 

They didn't even make enough money out of preorders to cover up costs and free month is over "soon". Once it is how many do you think will keep subbing after seeing this isn't really an MMO.

 

 

Preorder numbers already speak for themselves. It's not even the 2-3 mil they initially had, it's more like 1 mil if even.

 

Umm... apparently you missed the top announcement on the web page... the most recent one from the 22nd... the one where they already have over 1 million registered customers two days before Christmas, and that it's the fastest growing MMO in history currently:

 

http://www.swtor.com/news/press-release/20111223

 

That means there are far more pre-order box sales than 1 million, because a bunch of players on the pre-order list haven't registered accounts yet, unless you really think that absolutely no one is getting SWTOR as a Christmas present (hint: there are 2 people in that category just within my family this Christmas...). Trying to claim that the game is hurting right now based on pre-order numbers is only showing that you have some serious reading comprehension issues...

[Jagerinho]

WoW's launch was freaking years ago...TOR is NOT competing with WoW vanilla at Launch, it's competing with a super polished MMO jugernaut..So enough with the false equivelence arguments , they aren't valid without a time machine...

 

 

It doesn't matter what WoW was years ago...It matters what WOW and TOR are today

 

brilliant.

 

reread, and look at the part about deadlines and budget

[fungihoujo]

22nd. Also, Christmas presents ..really? This isn't really the game to gift to your kids, have you seen the kind of choices you get while playing a sith? Implied mass violence like this is even worse than visual one.

 

Anyway.

 

Go to game store, child is asking for his dad to buy him Red Dead Redemption, dad does so- Gamestop clerk informs him it's restricted, dad gets angry that the clerk is doing his job telling him the game's R rated. Kid gets a game where he gets to torture, kill and **** people, way more graphic.

 

- sorry, what planet are you on that parents are actually careful about gifting things to their children? And what mmo has content that's worse than what the online community itself puts into the game with their language and behaviour? Most parents that weren't gamers themselves don't know the difference between Mario and GTA.

[Danik_Kreldin]

WoW's launch was freaking years ago...TOR is NOT competing with WoW vanilla at Launch, it's competing with a super polished MMO jugernaut..So enough with the false equivelence arguments , they aren't valid without a time machine...

 

 

It doesn't matter what WoW was years ago...It matters what WOW and TOR are today

 

You're missing the point of the OP, and pretty much everything else in general.

 

Bioware is given a budget and a time table in which to release the game. It can't spend forever in development, because it would just drive the company into bankruptcy - an unreleased product isn't generating any revenue. So they have to take the money they are given and fit this massive, massive game into a set time period.

 

It can't have everything in at day one, completely bug-free. It's simply impossible. WoW had a similar development period to SWTOR, plus 7 years of post-release in which it was generating millions of dollars to then fund all the new stuff that came later.

 

WoW's had all the time and money to put in stuff like barber shops, transmogrification, LFD/LFR system, an active and huge economy, flying mounts, and very little bugs. Was it like that at the beginning? No, of course not, it came out over time and evolved into the well polished game it is today. SWTOR will follow the same route, but unfortunately so many people have been spoiled by modern WoW that they expect absolute perfection from every other MMO even though the game has been on shelves for 5 days now.

[Danik_Kreldin]

Go to game store, child is asking for his dad to buy him Red Dead Redemption, dad does so- Gamestop clerk informs him it's restricted, dad gets angry that the clerk is doing his job telling him the game's R rated. Kid gets a game where he gets to torture, kill and **** people, way more graphic.

 

- sorry, what planet are you on that parents are actually careful about gifting things to their children? And what mmo has content that's worse than what the online community itself puts into the game with their language and behaviour? Most parents that weren't gamers themselves don't know the difference between Mario and GTA.

 

He was trolling.

[Jagerinho]

People are still spouting the same sh*t and making new threads about it.

 

I'm waiting for someone to prove me wrong and give me a good argument.... Or maybe that's why the haters don't reply to this thread, because there is nothing to say and they know they are wrong.

[Meharial]

People are still spouting the same sh*t and making new threads about it.

 

I'm waiting for someone to prove me wrong and give me a good argument.... Or maybe that's why the haters don't reply to this thread, because there is nothing to say and they know they are wrong.

 

Here is one for you: if you are constricted by time and budget then it is up to you to manage said time and budget and expect to get called on it if you do it wrong. I see a lot of people that aren't complaining that it has bugs, people are complaining that it has quite a few major bugs that were reported for months without feedback on it in beta(looking at you Taris) and missing features (looking at you UI).

 

It's not a horrible game, it's not even bad. But if BW continues on this beta trend of making strange design decisions (like Ilum and the flags, or their epiphany post that color matching exposes their palette swap armors) and letting things slide, the game is going to suffer for it. A lot of people seem to have faith that BW will get around to fixing it, I hope they do. But I am not so blind as to take that for granted, nor will I defend mistakes of any kind. It's a mistake, suck it up, fix it and move on. They don't need defending, the game will speak for itself.

 

I must admit, this would be the first time I run into a feature that literally has "coming soon!" placeholder at launch. Put more money into something, consumers expect more out of it. Many feel that they didn't get it, and that the game is mediocre despite its budget (mediocre in design and their business decisions, not the amount of bugs or server capacity). Replayability is a huge concern for SWTOR, but too many are defending their awesome first play through to see that.

 

TL;DR: It isn't about bugs or server capacity, it's about features and design decisions. And whether BW earns all this faith that people are readily giving them when it comes to fixing mistakes.

[Zironic]

I'm not a charity, I don't give a rats *** about developers limited time and budget or whatever. I care about if their product is enjoyable enough for me to subscribe to or not.

 

I don't care if they'll potentially be better in the future, I care about how good it is now. If their product is better in the future, then maybe it is in the future they'll convince me that I should give them more money.

 

I don't get why fan-boys keep trying to convince people to donate money in the hopes of maybe, hopefully, potentially, get something enjoyable later down the line.

[Lu_Bei]

trolololo

 

I'm glad you know the game is going to fail, seeing as how you just joined this month and know nothing about it. >.<