Decisionlol Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 in this game is the most discouraging thing for any new/alt player in any game I've ever seen. It is absolutely absurd. I don't expect to walk into a WZ at level 60 having just leveled, and be the best... but to walk in and be nearly globalled by everyone I come across, not to mention every other WZ is a full premade vs a random pug, and if you don't have full PvP gear, you're gonna hit like a wet noodle, and everyone in the world is gonna tell you not to queue with no PvP gear, as if there's a way to hit 60 and be fully PvP geared. Hell, it's no wonder every other WZ I see is the same people. Who would want to do this? It's terrible. Also, *** is the point of the bolster in 60 WZs? It doesn't help any... -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 You are, of course, correct... I just finished about 10 WZ tonight, getting my weekly done for conquest. It was largely the same people over and over. Why do you think we haven't had a new WZ map for so long? Why do you think they aren't talking about new WZ maps any time soon, if ever? People are not playing Warzones nearly as much as they used to, I've been playing since version 1.1 and PvP used to pop constantly. I've never seen it as slow as it is right now... The whole gear system for PvP is broken and stupid, setup for those who have done it a long time. It isn't welcoming for anyone new. --- Of course, the PvP defenders will come in here and say all is fine... Ok then, why isn't PvP getting any love? If you think all is dandy, where are the new maps? Warzones are right up there with GSF, abandoned due to lack of interest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gronkagin Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 The way to get started in PvP currently is to go spend basic comms on Black hole (rating 162 gear). Buy yourself a full set. Use that for PvP, because it will let the bolster apply to you correctly. Anything over 162 and you take an expertise hit. Expertise is the main thing you need to worry about when entering WZ's. I got to 1900 Expertise just by doing that, and you will at least have a chance while you collect WZ comms to get your first set of PvP gear. Once you get the 162 gear, the first thing I bought from the PVP vendor was my mainhand weapon, and that helped my Expertise even more. You are shooting for max Expertise of 2018. Once you have your 162 rating gear, I suggest you enter the WZ and follow someone else around, learn to use the target of target or focus target. Heal them, assist them with their targets, learn the maps, etc. These are the things I learned that helped me the most in PvP thus far. I am on the Shadowlands server, feel free to whisper me if you're ever on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gronkagin Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Oh, and if you expect to win every time, well, you won't. There are other people that are better than you. It's a game, it's not perfect, it is what it is. If it gets you upset, you should not do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MbaxterBeau Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 I have a blast in Pvp in this game. Don't wear any pvp gear until you are past the bolster level or however the guy above me explained it. The time to kill has always been really fast in this game so that has been constant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobs_YourUncle Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 My experience has been different. Get max bolster and focus on the objectives, and you should do fine. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izorii Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 In my limited view PvP is one of the most broken, forgotten areas of this game. The who bolster/expertise system is broken and needs to be replaced. New people are just going to die in PvP - I have no interest in joining if all that happens to me is to be killed over and over and the only way to get the gear for this not to happen is to do this. The major issue in my view is no true open world PvP and the broken bolster system. In an open world game a new Lv 60 can tag along because he doesn't take up a slot so his mostly useless who cares its still better to have him than no one.. In a 4 v4 match he does and no one wants the new level 60 because his worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 The way to get started in PvP currently is to go spend basic comms on Black hole (rating 162 gear). Buy yourself a full set. Use that for PvP, because it will let the bolster apply to you correctly. Anything over 162 and you take an expertise hit. Expertise is the main thing you need to worry about when entering WZ's. I got to 1900 Expertise just by doing that, and you will at least have a chance while you collect WZ comms to get your first set of PvP gear. Do you not have any idea how stupid that sounds? Go buy older crappy PvE gear to do well in PvP? That goes against any sense of logic, you'll never get anything more than a small handful of people to do it, the system is simply broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRINnBARRETT Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Do you not have any idea how stupid that sounds? Go buy older crappy PvE gear to do well in PvP? That goes against any sense of logic, you'll never get anything more than a small handful of people to do it, the system is simply broken. It may not be a perfect system but he's basically given you the blueprint on how to compete at level 60 when you first start out. Many things are broken. Pvp gear system may be broken. Life is broken. But the question you have to ask yourself is, will you be one of the people that find a way to survive or will you be one of the people who complain about things being broken? Smart people find a way to survive in real life. Smart people find a way to survive in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 It may not be a perfect system but he's basically given you the blueprint on how to compete at level 60 when you first start out. Many things are broken. Pvp gear system may be broken. Life is broken. But the question you have to ask yourself is, will you be one of the people that find a way to survive or will you be one of the people who complain about things being broken? Smart people find a way to survive in real life. Smart people find a way to survive in game. His point was correct - this is the most moronic thing ever. We understand you should wear crappy armor if you're 60, BUT...that is the most illogical thing I've ever heard. What moron wears anything but his best armor to PvP for the first time in? Nobody would...yet, that's what the system wants and it rewards you for agreeing to play by the nonsensical rules...or...it punishes you for doing the most sensible thing. Bolster is BROKEN! Anything that is this foolish of a system, is indeed broken, despite if it works or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 His point was correct - this is the most moronic thing ever. We understand you should wear crappy armor if you're 60, BUT...that is the most illogical thing I've ever heard. What moron wears anything but his best armor to PvP for the first time in? Nobody would...yet, that's what the system wants and it rewards you for agreeing to play by the nonsensical rules...or...it punishes you for doing the most sensible thing. Bolster is BROKEN! Anything that is this foolish of a system, is indeed broken, despite if it works or not. Before Shadow of Revan the Bolster worked fine, but with the level cap increse, and the starting PvP gear below easy to access gear for even a level 55 and thus now everybody getting less expertice buff when they enter with normal (nothing fancy) PvE gear it kinda broke. So, the problem was that BioWare made the gap between the two gear types so that it now hurts in either direction to cross over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Do you not have any idea how stupid that sounds? Go buy older crappy PvE gear to do well in PvP? That goes against any sense of logic, you'll never get anything more than a small handful of people to do it, the system is simply broken. Yes it does sounds stupid, but it's accurate. This concept comes from the community playing around with Bolster with the devs ignoring it was broken until very recently. I ran around with level 60 basic gear and got face rolled for a month or two before I heard about this. I changed the handful of remaining items that weren't PvP and having Bolster kick in correctly made a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) His point was correct - this is the most moronic thing ever. We understand you should wear crappy armor if you're 60, BUT...that is the most illogical thing I've ever heard. What moron wears anything but his best armor to PvP for the first time in? Nobody would...yet, that's what the system wants and it rewards you for agreeing to play by the nonsensical rules...or...it punishes you for doing the most sensible thing. Bolster is BROKEN! Anything that is this foolish of a system, is indeed broken, despite if it works or not. Bolster at 60 is not broken in the way you are claiming. It is only broken for the people who insist on parading around in their high level PVE gear, which no one in PVP cares about in the first place. Players in 192s/198s are doing nothing more than being a liability to your team and their refusal to accept how to maximise bolster using PVE gear to be at least competitive does nothing more than show their purpose as Conquest PVE players, is to troll to the PVP players on their server. The "morons" who use 162s are far more accepted in PVP than players in 198s, because when we inspect them, we know that they are at least trying to make some effort, based on the current situation. Edited April 27, 2015 by ThorgrimLutgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Bolster at 60 is not broken in the way you are claiming. It is only broken for the people who insist on parading around in their high level PVE gear, which no one in PVP cares about in the first place. Players in 192s/198s are doing nothing more than being a liability to your team and their refusal to accept how to maximise bolster using PVE gear to be at least competitive does nothing more than show their purpose as Conquest PVE players, is to troll to the PVP players on their server. The "morons" who use 162s are far more accepted in PVP than players in 198s, because when we inspect them, we know that they are at least trying to make some effort, based on the current situation. ummmwut? It's rare that I agree with TUX, but it's broken and it's extremely counter-intuitive to go back and get old gear to wear for PvP, espeically when they give you two or three free sets of higher level gear in the SoR story. Unless you read it here or are told that bolster is broken this way many players will assume that they are working as intended and continue hitting like a wet noodle until someone tells them otherwise. The fault for this is on the devs not on the players, however I do agree that once a player is made aware of the issue they are doing a dis-service if they don't make an effort to get gear that bolsters appropriately, but it's not their fault if they don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Bolster at 60 is not broken in the way you are claiming. It is only broken for the people who insist on parading around in their high level PVE gear, which no one in PVP cares about in the first place. Players in 192s/198s are doing nothing more than being a liability to your team and their refusal to accept how to maximise bolster using PVE gear to be at least competitive does nothing more than show their purpose as Conquest PVE players, is to troll to the PVP players on their server. The "morons" who use 162s are far more accepted in PVP than players in 198s, because when we inspect them, we know that they are at least trying to make some effort, based on the current situation. That's exactly why I'm claiming it's broken. Anyone wearing 162 gear, is gaming the broken system. The player in 198 gear, is doing what is 100% natural...they are wearing their best freaking gear to PvP in. If you only PvP'd, what would you wear into a GF Flashpoint or Op for the 1st time? Your best PvP gear or your worst? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Also, *** is the point of the bolster in 60 WZs? It doesn't help any... -.- Bolster does work, however, it's a flawed mechanic and largely counter-intuitive for the average player. Players enter a WZ at 60 wearing the best PvE gear they can find, but that actually hurts them in Bolster. Players are better off wearing inferior gear like Black Hole in order to get the full Expertise complement. Not to mention that TTK has dropped quite a bit since 3.0 anyway. My Vanguard and PT get globalled routinely in Yolo and they have min/maxed Reaver gear. It's even worse when you don't have full Expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirthadrond Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) That's exactly why I'm claiming it's broken. Anyone wearing 162 gear, is gaming the broken system. The player in 198 gear, is doing what is 100% natural...they are wearing their best freaking gear to PvP in. If you only PvP'd, what would you wear into a GF Flashpoint or Op for the 1st time? Your best PvP gear or your worst? Don't you try an use LOGIC on bioware. That's just... uncalled for Mr. If is DOESN'T make sense, you must acquit!! Edited April 27, 2015 by Mirthadrond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daxy Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) Do you not have any idea how stupid that sounds? Go buy older crappy PvE gear to do well in PvP? That goes against any sense of logic, you'll never get anything more than a small handful of people to do it, the system is simply broken. May be not intuitive but what is stupid is Qing for 60 pvp, knowing what you need to get bolstered expertise, and then gripe about the results- ie being ineffective and getting nowhere If one is interested in pvp just check out the pvp forums One of the first stickies is related to how bolster works Within a week of steady play you could have a set of exhumed gear or at least enough to have some set pieces Btw pretty much any gear 162 and under (except main & offhand- these need even less) will work for max expertise- expertise is the quintessential pvp stat- everything is filtered through it so if one is rocking 1200 or less you will not harm, pester, or survive a player at 2018 expertise This is what frustrates so many new pvprs but maybe 1in 50 would be willing to listen to advice (and usually the "1" is a former pvpr in battle master gear who is wondering "***???!!!") The other 49 get all defensive so I've said f-it; this thread is in the forums and surmising from this last weekends calibur of pugger I hope a few take the time and maybe 10k credits to get some lowbie greens and start Qing Also start pvp early in a toons career and get to valor 40 then you can swap reg comms to ranked comms and gear up as soon as one dings 60 Gl/hf/and call incs Edited April 27, 2015 by Daxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daxy Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) Bolster is BROKEN! Anything that is this foolish of a system, is indeed broken, despite if it works or not. Agreed bolster is borked and it should not be in level 60 at all I would also raise the item level of ranked pvp to 186 Or Get rid of pvp gear altogether and give some kind of generic class stats If peeps are just trying pvp for the first time gear will be of little help to them as the culture shock takes a bit to get used to Edited April 27, 2015 by Daxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvalonBunny Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 You only need to go to the pvp training dummies on fleet and hit the pvp bolster terminal ... check your gear for expertise and try your best pve gear and 'inferior' gear ... I was shocked the first time I tried this ... I geared out my char in 162 gear and actually did very well in matches compared to previous times. Anyone wanting to take part in lvl 60 pvp without pvp gear should use the training dummies to optimize their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 in this game is the most discouraging thing for any new/alt player in any game I've ever seen. It is absolutely absurd. I don't expect to walk into a WZ at level 60 having just leveled, and be the best... but to walk in and be nearly globalled by everyone I come across, not to mention every other WZ is a full premade vs a random pug, and if you don't have full PvP gear, you're gonna hit like a wet noodle, and everyone in the world is gonna tell you not to queue with no PvP gear, as if there's a way to hit 60 and be fully PvP geared. Hell, it's no wonder every other WZ I see is the same people. Who would want to do this? It's terrible. Also, *** is the point of the bolster in 60 WZs? It doesn't help any... -.- That's ridiculous... LvL 60 PVP is end game content for pvp players... The same as your OPs are for you PVE players... Why should we have to "carebear" it for new pvpers?? You should be pvping before you get to lvl 60 to learn tactics and what abilities work in pvp... Even jumping into lvl 60 pvp from lower lvl pvp can be a coulter shock for new lvl 60 pvpers I would suggest you roll another toon and learn pvp at a lower lvl Also we don't have end game objective pvp except regs since bio removed 8 man ranked objective pvp... So those that don't like arena death match, don't play ranked... So people who only play pvp will always global you no matter what gear they are wearing or what you are wearing... And what gear were you wearing??... Bolster only works if you wear gear 162 or lower... Any hero PVE gear is useless Please read this thread on how to gear with PVE items until you can get your pvp gear http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=795518 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 That's ridiculous... LvL 60 PVP is end game content for pvp players... The same as your OPs are for you PVE players... Why should we have to "carebear" it for new pvpers?? You should be pvping before you get to lvl 60 to learn tactics and what abilities work in pvp... Even jumping into lvl 60 pvp from lower lvl pvp can be a coulter shock for new lvl 60 pvpers I would suggest you roll another toon and learn pvp at a lower lvl Also we don't have end game objective pvp except regs since bio removed 8 man ranked objective pvp... So those that don't like arena death match, don't play ranked... So people who only play pvp will always global you no matter what gear they are wearing or what you are wearing... And what gear were you wearing??... Bolster only works if you wear gear 162 or lower... Any hero PVE gear is useless Please read this thread on how to gear with PVE items until you can get your pvp gear http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=795518 sure but you take that additude in don't come on the fourms and whine that PVP is dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 sure but you take that additude in don't come on the fourms and whine that PVP is dying. The reason pvp is dying is because of poor decisions by the Devs and lack of new content... Making lvl 60 more "carebear" than it already is for people who don't start pvping till lvl 60 would just add another nail in the coffin It's already frustrating enough when these people come into the WZ with no idea and expect you to carry them... Lvl 60 pvp is not supposed to be where you learn your pvp basics... That is what lower lvl pvp is for... If people have been too lazy to at least do the pvp weeklies and learn some pvp skills... Then they "will" get Globaled... Even if Bio did "dumb" down lvl 60 more than they already did, the people who pvp'd early will global the new lvl 60 pvpers I can guarantee I can global any one who has never pvp'd in this game and has decided to start at lvl 60... I'm happy to even wear lower gear than they have... I've just rolled and been lvling a PT and a VG... From lvl 11 I have been globaling people who are new to pvp on all classes to lvl 29... Same goes on other Alts I have lvl'd from 30-60... People have been complaining they can't play mid bracket as lvl 55-59 smash them... I have not had this issue and have consistently been competitive and even killing many lvl 59s... And why do you think that is??... It's not because I'm the best, I would rate myself as being competent-good ... It's becasue I only pvp from lvl 10, I know my classes inside out and I know tactics... Most end lvl pvpers are the same, not to mention the ranked lvl players who dominate even the good casual pvpers People shouldnt assume they can walk into end lvl pvp and not play against the best pvpers in the game... Not to mention the premade pvp guilds... At the end of the day pvp is about skill lvl... Gear doesn't matter, bolster doesn't matter... If you want to pvp, then start early and atleast learn the basics... Don't play PVE all the way to 60 and then come to the forums and complain that it's not "fair" or too "hard" I offered the OP some advice which was to roll another toon to learn the WZs and basics of pvp... I also linked a thread, that I created after spending many, many hours and millions of credits testing Bolster to show people how to equip properly... I did that to help new people... So don't accuse me of whining about pvp dying when I have made an effort to help the community... Bio are the ones to blame about pvp dying... "Dumbing" it down more to accommodate people who don't make an effort would destroy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 The reason pvp is dying is because of poor decisions by the Devs and lack of new content... Making lvl 60 more "carebear" than it already is for people who don't start pvping till lvl 60 would just add another nail in the coffin It's already frustrating enough when these people come into the WZ with no idea and expect you to carry them... Lvl 60 pvp is not supposed to be where you learn your pvp basics... That is what lower lvl pvp is for... If people have been too lazy to at least do the pvp weeklies and learn some pvp skills... Then they "will" get Globaled... Even if Bio did "dumb" down lvl 60 more than they already did I agree that PvP is dying and that it is directly tied to the poor decisions and utter neglect by the Devs with regard to PvP, but nothing else you've said. PvP HAS GOT to be "carebear'd up" because it needs to be NEW PLAYER FRIENDLY. Why the hell do you care if someone starts PvPing at 60 or 10? Mind your own business and be thankful they're PvPing at all. We were all new to PvP at one time so don't be a d-bag. And if you're so super serious about PvP, do ranked. Otherwise, you're playing in the starter area, despite how uber you think you are. And form your own group for ranked to further insulate yourself from new players...they don't wanna play with guys like you, you don't wanna play with the likes of them...works out well and everyone benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) I think bolster's ok in concept but lacking in execution. It's not actively managed very well or comprehensive enough. An ING guide for those that don't get it wouldn't be amiss either. I know now what bolsters well and to bank speeders and weapons for transitioning a toon to 60 PVP. If I was new or just trying out PVP I wouldn't expect it to be a subject requiring much care or looking into. Basically bolster should be fairly "idiot proof". It isn't, and that's on BW. If they gave 2 ***** it would also comp. decently for the bums that know better but won't ever wear anything but their awfully bolstering raid gear. For example I had 6 of them in a match last night with ~ 1,000 exp. I left to dodge them before the match started. Edited April 28, 2015 by Joesixxpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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