Healing reduced by 30% in pvp. WHY!?

[Repefe]

Well guys, he's played a lot. That means he's good. That's a wrap people.

 

And who are you again ?

[Deffin]

Hello all,

 

I play a character named "Bandaid" (lol it went well for a healer). He is a Republic Trooper and he is the only character I have.

 

When I first got my AC at level ten I was able to get one healing spell. Throughout the time with my ONE healing spell I was able to do decent healing in Warzones. It wasn't the fun pressing one button, but I managed. Even collected some MVP votes from my teammates, because I don't like them dying.

 

At around level 20, I was able to get more healing spelling and I was rocking PvP. I was shooting green lazers out of my big cannon and the green numbers were flying. However if more than two people started attacking or "Training" (as it is called in the PvPscene) I would die.

 

Now, this is the issue at hand, the 30% nerf which appears as a debuff called tramua (I think). In all honesty, while healing I cannot even tell it's there. I still end up with 200k+ games at level 31 (my current level).

 

However I am a PVP healer on a PVP server in a PVP guild and this nerf is NEEDED for PvP. In Warzones I die mostly around 5-10 times. Why? Because I am not God. I do not expect to be a God nor do I want to be one. As a healer I can handle one guy on me, but it requires me to focus hard on myself. My HoT goes on me and I can manage to keep myself and a few others around me. This is normal though. I don't want to be like some superhuman (although I am Cyborg in game ).

 

Healing in this game is fine and the Debuff doesn't really affect gameplay. As a healer, expect to die. You will most likely be the focus for the other team. I know the Sith players ALWAYS target me and try to kill me, that is the part of the game.

 

Even in real life war. Who are the first people targetted? Medics... Why? Without a medic you're pretty much screwed.

 

So I advise you people complaining to try and just get better at healing, see it as a challenge to make you play better instead of just giving up and claiming it ruins your gameplay.

 

Thanks for listening.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Deffin

[Bekkal]

Taking this thread seriously for half a moment...

 

Healing was gamebreakingly overpowered in PVP. Buffs and Nerfs cannot be based around your average PUG where the healers get rocked as soon as green starts flying around. They have to be based around focused, coordinated groups. In such groups, healers were at worst overpowered and at their strongest they could single-handedly decide the outcome of fights.

 

PVP healing has always been too strong in PVE-focused MMOs, because it needs to be for PVE content to be relevant. WoW solves this with Mortal Strike debuffs, among other things. TOR is just going a different route.

[Niquity]

Taking this thread seriously for half a moment...

 

Healing was gamebreakingly overpowered in PVP. Buffs and Nerfs cannot be based around your average PUG where the healers get rocked as soon as green starts flying around. They have to be based around focused, coordinated groups. In such groups, healers were at worst overpowered and at their strongest they could single-handedly decide the outcome of fights.

 

PVP healing has always been too strong in PVE-focused MMOs, because it needs to be for PVE content to be relevant. WoW solves this with Mortal Strike debuffs, among other things. TOR is just going a different route.

 

Don't know if i would tank to compare this games healing to wows unlike some other things in this game the healing is a fair bit different. in a nut shell healers when i was around could heal 2 times more healing per sec than a dps would do damage per sec to the target. it was fine because. once you got good enough you could cc/kill or at least keep them busy .in this game (though i would still wait un tell more endgame gear has been gotten) healing seems to be just under the dps output of some class burst.

 

For example last night. my friend lvl 50 marauder i think 185 experti, got attacked by a lvl 44 Operative. in hutta, point is he opened on him and hit him for something crazy hard i shielded him, poped my hot (for the much needed follow up hit him with innervate, and exploited the 1sec big heal from the buff proc for maximum HPS. the Op was doing so much burst i never got him up but his health stayed about the same. this was a problem because i did not get him up to buy time to heal anyone else and i just did my best HPS heal rotation. so i did have the ae knock him off the edge... thank god it was hutta ball i wonder how the fight could have gone any were else...

[CHRISGG]

Taking this thread seriously for half a moment...

 

Healing was gamebreakingly overpowered in PVP. Buffs and Nerfs cannot be based around your average PUG where the healers get rocked as soon as green starts flying around. They have to be based around focused, coordinated groups. In such groups, healers were at worst overpowered and at their strongest they could single-handedly decide the outcome of fights.

 

PVP healing has always been too strong in PVE-focused MMOs, because it needs to be for PVE content to be relevant. WoW solves this with Mortal Strike debuffs, among other things. TOR is just going a different route.

 

What do you mean "were." There were not any focused coordinated groups present when Trauma was added, which was what, 4 or 5 months ago now?

[Bekkal]

Don't know if i would tank to compare this games healing to wows unlike some other things in this game the healing is a fair bit different. in a nut shell healers when i was around could heal 2 times more healing per sec than a dps would do damage per sec to the target. it was fine because. once you got good enough you could cc/kill or at least keep them busy .in this game (though i would still wait un tell more endgame gear has been gotten) healing seems to be just under the dps output of some class burst.

 

For example last night. my friend lvl 50 marauder i think 185 experti, got attacked by a lvl 44 Operative. in hutta, point is he opened on him and hit him for something crazy hard i shielded him, poped my hot (for the much needed follow up hit him with innervate, and exploited the 1sec big heal from the buff proc for maximum HPS. the Op was doing so much burst i never got him up but his health stayed about the same. this was a problem because i did not get him up to buy time to heal anyone else and i just did my best HPS heal rotation. so i did have the ae knock him off the edge... thank god it was hutta ball i wonder how the fight could have gone any were else...

 

Sounds like it's working as intended, as your dps-specced friend got jumped by a burst dps class and you sustained him through the burst. Your friend would have crushed the OP no problem.

[Bekkal]

What do you mean "were." There were not any focused coordinated groups present when Trauma was added, which was what, 4 or 5 months ago now?

 

Sounds like someone doesn't queue with buddies.

[AdamLKvist]

Level 50 having healed for 450k , enough tools to save, mitigate and outheal a lot of damage.

 

 

 

 

This thread should simply be ignored...

[CHRISGG]

Sounds like someone doesn't queue with buddies.

 

You are ignoring the fact that Trauma has been in the game since before truly large scale PvP testing even began which you apparently did not know (Did you think it was a recent addition or something?)

 

Bioware did not actually get any info related to "Coordinated group vs group" games because they were next to non existant when Trauma was implemented. It was added as a kneejerk reaction to the cold, hard fact that bad players traditionally have trouble dealing with healers in MMORPGs, not anything to do with SWTOR itself.

Edited December 28, 2011 by CHRISGG

[Ketchum]

Nerfing my heals already, Bioware?

 

My heals as is are already so slow and weak that I couldn't keep a person alive if there was more than one enemy attacking them, let alone if there's someone else attacking me as well. Nerf them enough and there will be no point to PVP healing. I can't keep my team mates alive so once they all die the other team will be coming after me, and I can't defend myself because I'm 100% in the healing tree so my attacks are useless, and I can't heal myself because heals don't heal. It's the same thing Blizzard did with WoW, and it's the exact reason why I quit healing in that game.

[Senefera]

Nerfing my heals already, Bioware?

 

My heals as is are already so slow and weak that I couldn't keep a person alive if there was more than one enemy attacking them, let alone if there's someone else attacking me as well. Nerf them enough and there will be no point to PVP healing. I can't keep my team mates alive so once they all die the other team will be coming after me, and I can't defend myself because I'm 100% in the healing tree so my attacks are useless, and I can't heal myself because heals don't heal. It's the same thing Blizzard did with WoW, and it's the exact reason why I quit healing in that game.

 

No one is nerfing anything.

People are talking about the -30% healing taken debuff players get when they engage in PvP. It's been with us since beta and all the way through live.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Senefera

[BrolleunHunter]

Perhaps the OP wasn't in the BETA testing, but healing was outrageously OP without Trauma.

[Tetseu]

If i had an additional +30% to my heals in PVP i would never die......I like where healing is at.

 

I'm not even Max lvl either im a 35 Merc BH, i can only imagine how easy healing will be when im rockin full champ gear and full heal talents.

[Killadrix]

As someone leveling 2 healers almost exclusively through PVP, I think healing is fine.

[Bekkal]

You are ignoring the fact that Trauma has been in the game since before truly large scale PvP testing even began which you apparently did not know (Did you think it was a recent addition or something?)

 

Bioware did not actually get any info related to "Coordinated group vs group" games because they were next to non existant when Trauma was implemented. It was added as a kneejerk reaction to the cold, hard fact that bad players traditionally have trouble dealing with healers in MMORPGs, not anything to do with SWTOR itself.

 

You're taking a silly joke pretty far out of context. You also seem to assume that BW does not run any models or internal testing, and that they wouldn't figure out very quickly that PVE-focused healing is OP in PVP environments, especially since this has been true in every PVE-focused MMO ever. Initial beta testing would only confirm this.

 

Edit: Just realized you're the same goober who's been spouting nonsense for a while now.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Bekkal

[Lindraskada]

You're taking a silly joke pretty far out of context. You also seem to assume that BW does not run any models or internal testing, and that they wouldn't figure out very quickly that PVE-focused healing is OP in PVP environments, especially since this has been true in every PVE-focused MMO ever. Initial beta testing would only confirm this.

 

Edit: Just realized you're the same goober who's been spouting nonsense for a while now.

 

but following that logic

then PvE damage is out of whack aswell.

 

end of the day, either PVE stats works for pvp , or they dont, you cant pick and choose

Edited December 28, 2011 by Lindraskada

[malignment]

If i had an additional +30% to my heals in PVP i would never die......I like where healing is at.

 

I'm not even Max lvl either im a 35 Merc BH, i can only imagine how easy healing will be when im rockin full champ gear and full heal talents.

 

This. I'm a healer lvl 32 sage with terrible gear and I do just fine thx. If I had +30% I would be OP.

[Senefera]

If i had an additional +30% to my heals in PVP i would never die......I like where healing is at.

 

I'm not even Max lvl either im a 35 Merc BH, i can only imagine how easy healing will be when im rockin full champ gear and full heal talents.

 

Word.

[Lindraskada]

also, it would be a 42% increase

 

100% -30% = 70%

 

70% -> 100% = 42% increase

 

just saying

[Llenyd]

Well... when a lv50 healer and a lv50 dps(equal gear and skill)lock in combat, they cancel each other out. One can't really kill the other and healer is force to focus on healing him/herself only.

 

Healing should always be greater than damage. If healing and damage are equal, a healer can never win. Healing has to outpace damage enough to open a window of opportunity to mix damage/cc in with the healing. If the healer is focused solely on healing, they should be able to keep themselves alive indefinitely against a solo dps. At the same time, the dps won't die either because the healer is not dealing any damage. When the healer switches to a mixture of healing and damage is when the dps can kill the healer. Either the damage of the dps outpaces the half-healing of the healer, or the split focus runs the healer out of resources. Alternatively, two dps should be able to kill a single healer.

[Senefera]

Healing should always be greater than damage. If healing and damage are equal, a healer can never win. Healing has to outpace damage enough to open a window of opportunity to mix damage/cc in with the healing. If the healer is focused solely on healing, they should be able to keep themselves alive indefinitely against a solo dps. At the same time, the dps won't die either because the healer is not dealing any damage. When the healer switches to a mixture of healing and damage is when the dps can kill the healer. Either the damage of the dps outpaces the half-healing of the healer, or the split focus runs the healer out of resources. Alternatively, two dps should be able to kill a single healer.

 

See, the difference here is that this game got this nifty little ability called Guard. It even has something called Taunt. When you combine skilled tank + Guard + Taunt, healing becomes very, very powerful. If there would be no debuff, healing would be way too powerful. I'm with a skilled tank and I almost feel OP as it is.

 

So. Should we remove Guard and Taunt just so healers can feel like they're in some other game, or... should we keep everything as it is and hope that people actually get a clue and start to use the tools given to them?

Edited December 28, 2011 by Senefera

[ShenLong]

See, the difference here is that this game got this nifty little ability called Guard. It even has something called Taunt. When you combine skilled tank + Guard + Taunt, healing becomes very, very powerful. If there would be no debuff, healing would be way too powerful. I'm with a skilled tank and I almost feel OP as it is.

 

So. Should we remove Guard and Taunt just so healers can feel like they're in some other game, or... should we keep everything as it is and hope that people actually get a clue and start to use the tools given to them?

 

Ooo, ooo can I answer that?!

 

We're not meant to be able to one-on-one others and kill them anyways. We're meant to keep our opponents distracted long enough that our allies can come and kill them. Oh, and keep our allies up long enough to kill them

[Lindraskada]

See, the difference here is that this game got this nifty little ability called Guard. It even has something called Taunt. When you combine skilled tank + Guard + Taunt, healing becomes very, very powerful. If there would be no debuff, healing would be way too powerful. I'm with a skilled tank and I almost feel OP as it is.

 

So. Should we remove Guard and Taunt just so healers can feel like they're in some other game, or... should we keep everything as it is and hope that people actually get a clue and start to use the tools given to them?

 

im 100% fine with that

when they put in an ability that means DPS do -30% damage unless they have a buff up on another person in their group within 20 feet of them AT ALL TIMES..

 

whats that ? its too much effort? right sod off then

 

healing is the ONLY archetype that REQUIRES other people to input for it to work. either remove that requirement, or make it affect -everyone-

[Senefera]

im 100% fine with that

when they put in an ability that means DPS do -30% damage unless they have a buff up on another person in their group within 20 feet of them AT ALL TIMES..

whats that ? its too much effort? right sod off then

 

Actually that sounds very interesting.

I'm always annoyed with how much some DPS only seem to care about their own e-peen stroking and big scoreboard numbers. If they were forced to actually do group play to get big numbers maybe they'd learn a thing or two about combat awareness and importance of keeping the battle under control..

 

Can't be done here, though. Too late to start implementing huge things like that, would need extensive testing, but the idea IS interesting.

[Lindraskada]

end of the day, imo, it ties all the probs with healing in MMOs into a nice big bunch:

 

With crap teammates, you will fail - set groups etc , or dont bother basically, PUG healing is a nightmare in PVP

 

healers are the most undervalued , and most derided players, ever

 

getting the "across the board" 30% reduction is basically a slap in the face - is the mechanic needed ? maybe... but this is not the way to implement it

 

 

First Rule of MMOs :

Good outcome ? -> GREAT TEAM!

Bad outcome ? -> ***** HEALER!

 

 

we get the ****** end of the stick, we know, you dont have to poke it into our faces though