Bioware told sorc class to bend over and take it

[Trollhammer]

I don't get the need for this nerf. As I often do, I question the logic and reason of the devs. It's like they don't know the game they're developers for.

[Saikochoro]

i want what this dude is smoking.

 

maybe healer sorcs. but lightning!?

 

Lightnings true strength in pvp was not in force storm or even damage. Force storm was strong and useful, but still not their main strenght. Their main strength is their extreme mobility and that was only slightly reduced by increasing the cooldown of lightning flash. Granted the single target nerfs were beyond stupid, but their main strength was pretty much untouched.

[Citruzz]

I dont think posting a parse thats in bis and is a very lucky at best is best representative of a class dps (52 apm and 42 crit chance, ***, also check Nadinas other parses, it ranges between 4,6-4,7, and other one has a parse of 4,4, so i dont know what is their parse average) . Force storm/forcequake shoud have been nerfed, nobody is complaining about that (well im not). I just dont see the reason why nerf the single target rotation and make it clunky. I dont think this nerfing is doing the game any good, it will not balance the game. And some abilities (like flybye on slingers, and now maybe forcestorm) are not used anymore, so whats the point of having thoose abilities( they coud just remove them from the game). I think the main problem with bioware is that they dont know how to balance a skill, its either they ruin it completly or they buff it so other people complain that its op.

 

Indeed. My crit anomaly parse do not proof anything and it is not representative. I got this parse in a 6 or 7 hour dummy marathon after the nerf. if you have so many tries in a row, some anomalies will be present and in the most cases really bad ones. My average dps was ~4675 (exclusive any kind of anomaly) in full 198 min maxed except hilt. But sorcs and sages are still strong and viable for the current and upcoming content.

[XantosCledwin]

a 300 dps loss are you just that horribly geared? i was doing 5.1k parses without force storm in my rotation as lightning and now i'm parsing 4.3k 4.4k max

 

I am confused... is everyone that is complaining purposely gimping themselves by completely removing Force Storm/Quake from their DPS rotation in the entirety? I mean that is the only reason I can think of for why someone would be suffering a 700-800 DPS loss in their rotation...

 

I would also like to point out that the lowest parsing individuals on Parsley parse in at around 3.5k DPS. So parsing at 4.4k DPS is not the lowest that can be obtained by a long margin.

[IkarusXY]

I got this parse in a 6 or 7 hour dummy marathon after the nerf.

 

Holy ****.

And my guys are complaining allready that i spend so much time parsing. But that is another level.

Do you use special amount of crit in the gear for that?

Edited April 21, 2015 by IkarusXY

[XantosCledwin]

I got this parse in a 6 or 7 hour dummy marathon after the nerf.

 

Talk about a complete and utter waste of 6 to 7 hours of time...

[Citruzz]

Do you use special amount of crit in the gear for that?

 

in this parse i was running 13x willpower augments and 333 or 414 crit rating. I have tested a few different setups, so i am not sure which crit rating i had exactly.

[vorkosigann]

Indeed. My crit anomaly parse do not proof anything and it is not representative. I got this parse in a 6 or 7 hour dummy marathon after the nerf. if you have so many tries in a row, some anomalies will be present and in the most cases really bad ones. My average dps was ~4675 (exclusive any kind of anomaly) in full 198 min maxed except hilt. But sorcs and sages are still strong and viable for the current and upcoming content.

 

Yes, sage dps is indeed viable and strong, its just that the brief era of unrealistic aoe dps is over. I prefer balance anyway, parse around 4,2, best 4,3. Im currently healing so i dont have the gear for trying 700 alacrity way (its min/max 192, with old set bonus (3 186, and 1 180). Nemritzo on parsely. But both specs are good now, its just that we are not the best single target class, or aoe or even burst class, but we are fine and nobody can tell me that they cant bring a good sage dps in progression team (also in balance, you can put perspective numbers, heal yourself and help with healing/bubbling- one of the reason i prefer balance spec, only drawback is that rotation feels a bit out of the way- disturbance on proc is meh).

[PyrotekNick]

In general I find the nerf to be too much, not because the Force Storm nerf was too harsh (I believe it was more-or-less spot on the money), but because (it appears that) it wasn't based on game play experience. It looks to be based exclusively on the loud complaining of the PvP community. Unfortunately, that community wasn't able to grasp the idea of avoiding Force Storm, or standing on top of teammates to bait volleys of Chain Lightning.

 

However, as many of the other sorcerer parses have shown, I noticed an avg 270-320 dps loss after the patch, and have adjusted my rotation to not include force storm unless there are (at a minimum) 3 targets.

 

The problem with the patch in my opinion, was that a class whose maximum burst output (in a single GCD) in PvP was in the high 4 digits (9500 ballpark) lost one of the (three) big abilities that made them so feared. Anyone can now stand in a Force Storm, and the only thing to worry about is the Chain Lightning and Thundering Blast...but the PvP community either doesn't care, or know how, to avoid getting hit by these things. Where other classes are hitting 12-15k biggest hits, sorcerers were making up for the lack of peak damage, with a larger volume. It took longer for a Sorcerer/Sage to kill a target, but it appeared as if they'd done 'more damage' (which they had), when in actuality the other classes [specifically] PT, Merc, Sniper, Jugg, had actually just destroyed their target more quickly.

 

I'm under the impression that with a little more complaining, Sorcerers/Sages will experience another nerf, this time to Chain Lightning's damage.

 

I understand the changes to Force Storm, it was being used in an unintended manner. However, as Sorcerers and Sages are now 1-2k behind the other top-end class(es) (see http://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard, there isn't a Sorcerer or Sage in the top 50 after the nerf), it may be necessary to ramp up an ability like Lightning Flash. By increasing the damage output from a single-target ability, they increase the overall DPS of the class, without crossing the border of too much AOE output.

 

My two cents.

[TitusOfTides]

At least there's only 1 month and 2 days until ESO drops on console...

[Kai-Del_Serromis]

The only spec I've played is Balance on my Sage. Quite frankly: I've almost entirely stopped playing my Sage in PVP; and I switched entirely to healing for PVE. Sure, I can get by (Barely) in SM content with Balance, but SM content isn't what I want to do. I want to do HM and NiM content, but, as it stands, I would only be dragging my team down if i brought my Sage in.

 

Telekinetics was hurt, but it's still playable at least. Balance is not.

 

And don't even get me started on EAware giving all the other classes tools to help keep them from being kited. Low Slash anyone!? Kiting is the number one "Defensive Cooldown" for the Sage, so if you're going to give all the other classes MORE utility to shut us down at least give us something that we can keep going with. Maybe stun immunity?

[TougeFreak]

Just cancel your subscription people. It's pointless to whine like the whiners, show bioware you are not fu**ing around. I remember I used to play SWG and the first few unlocked jedi and the amount of *****es cried about nerfing us was unbelievable. Fast forward, now I am an adult I honestly do not give a flying fock about nerfs anymore. But I know I have the money and cash is king.

[MusicRider]

The only spec I've played is Balance on my Sage. Quite frankly: I've almost entirely stopped playing my Sage in PVP; and I switched entirely to healing for PVE. Sure, I can get by (Barely) in SM content with Balance, but SM content isn't what I want to do. I want to do HM and NiM content, but, as it stands, I would only be dragging my team down if i brought my Sage in.

 

Telekinetics was hurt, but it's still playable at least. Balance is not.

 

And don't even get me started on EAware giving all the other classes tools to help keep them from being kited. Low Slash anyone!? Kiting is the number one "Defensive Cooldown" for the Sage, so if you're going to give all the other classes MORE utility to shut us down at least give us something that we can keep going with. Maybe stun immunity?

 

With regards to pvp, sages/sorcs are probably the only class with all their three specs perfectly viable, even after the nerfs to tk.

[zZeroAgent]

The only spec I've played is Balance on my Sage. Quite frankly: I've almost entirely stopped playing my Sage in PVP; and I switched entirely to healing for PVE. Sure, I can get by (Barely) in SM content with Balance, but SM content isn't what I want to do. I want to do HM and NiM content, but, as it stands, I would only be dragging my team down if i brought my Sage in.

 

Telekinetics was hurt, but it's still playable at least. Balance is not.

 

And don't even get me started on EAware giving all the other classes tools to help keep them from being kited. Low Slash anyone!? Kiting is the number one "Defensive Cooldown" for the Sage, so if you're going to give all the other classes MORE utility to shut us down at least give us something that we can keep going with. Maybe stun immunity?

 

You guys are really complaining about nothing

 

Like said above, all Sorcs specs are viable. Not only are they viable, they are among the top pvp classes. You could get paired up with 3 other Sorcs in yolo ranked and you'd have an incredibly big chance of winning the match

 

The class is great right now

[Hichitsuki-hime]

You guys are really complaining about nothing

 

Like said above, all Sorcs specs are viable. Not only are they viable, they are among the top pvp classes. You could get paired up with 3 other Sorcs in yolo ranked and you'd have an incredibly big chance of winning the match

 

The class is great right now

 

key word - PVP. well........... i do balance in PvE!!!! and guess what, i had to go back to healing because on single target bosses it's outdpsed by just about any other spec!!! so yeah ALL sorc specs are viable .. SUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE............ NOT

[zZeroAgent]

key word - PVP. well........... i do balance in PvE!!!! and guess what, i had to go back to healing because on single target bosses it's outdpsed by just about any other spec!!! so yeah ALL sorc specs are viable .. SUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE............ NOT

 

Wel, I was responding to his "I stopped playing the class in PvP" part of his post. Maybe I should have been clearer

Edited May 10, 2015 by zZeroAgent

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Wel, I was responding to his "I stopped playing the class in PvP" part of his post. Maybe I should have been clearer

 

hehe, i should have maybe read it a bit more carefully too. just get annoyed very easy when people say that the class doesn't need a buff because it's okay in pvp >.<

[akisgood]

Yes it's fine in PvP.

 

To some extent it's also fine in PvE, but only because the current dps checks are very forgiving, especially with the addition of 204 MHs, (although I personally wouldn't want to take four sorc dps to HM Revan, even post nerf).

 

As far as PvE goes, it would be nice if Bioware now leave lightning alone, as it's in line with most of the other burst specs, while buffing madness' sustained damage by 5-10% and possibly nerfing either its self heals or its immobilise effect to keep it balanced in PvP.

Edited May 12, 2015 by akisgood

[-JE-BLAZAR-]

Sorcerer's Force Storm (FS) and Sage's Force Quake (FQ), needed a bit of a nerf in Damage output, to make it the same in DPS as 2x sweeping blasters from a Merc.

 

Lets compare some numbers:

 

For example:

Merc sweeping Blasters with 186 gear +25% more damage does around:

- 6000-6250 Damage

> (I am not sure anymore what it precisely was but the damage of my merc falls in this number of damage).

> (As a 3 seconds cast time it dioes this much damage).

- 6000-6250 x 2 = 12.000-12.500 Damage.

> (If it where a 6 seconds cast time it did this much damage).

Before 3.1.2 Sorcerer and Sage with full 186 gear +25% of Damage did around:

- 7600-7800 Damage

> (I am not sure anymore what it precisely was but the damage of my sorcerer was in this number of damage).

> (If it where a 3 seconds cast time it did this much damage).

- 7600-7800 x 2 = 15.200-15.600 Damage.

> (As a 6 seconds cast time it did this much damage).

 

Sweeping blasters is the same in almost every way as the Sorcerers/Sage AOE variant, the only thing really different was the 3 seconds channel compared to the FS and FQ 6 seconds channel.

And the DPS was at minimum 1600 Damage too much compared with FS and FQ.

 

So in order to compensate this (with the huge healing of the Sorcerer + Sage class), they should have made it impossible to crit with FS and FQ. Furthermore the damage should be brought too the same number of 2x sweeping blasters, so that is around 6000-6250 x 2 = 12.000-12.500 Damage.

Keeping FS and FQ at 6 seconds is fun, because the animation looks epic, so the cutting in half of those abilities is viewed as an huge negative disappointment.

Although the 3 seconds casting gives more mobility too the sorcerer+sage, it nerfs the look of 1 of the most coolest abilities in this game, the epic feeling and look of these abilities.

So the damage should be nerfed a bit because it was overpowered but the casting time should be kept at 6 seconds to keep it's epic look.

 

The FQ ability animation is still bugged btw since 3.0 and Lightning Bolt (LB) and Telekinetic Burst (TB) are since 3.0 never fixed that when force speed is activated or alacrity increases the Firing animation of the body (that the hand rises up) cant keep up with the particle animation of the Lightning or Force Blast (below I will tell more about it).

 

But more about why probably FS and FQ was more nerfed in DPS output and not brought too the same level as for example the Sweeping Blasters of the Merc.

 

This is probably not the only answer+reason but not something I read on the forums.

Mercs cant heal as much as an Sorcerer/Sage can, so in order to make sure Sorcerer's +Sages dont easily die again in PVP (before update 3.0 with low survivability) they did not Nerf these 2 classes their healing powers and nerfed more the DPS so in the hope the healing + DPS can match up with the Merc/Commando numbers in Damage and Healing in PVP.

When a merc does for example (just to give you an idea not actual numbers)

- 200 damage and 100 healing, an sorcerer can do

- 100 damage and 200 healing (light armor compensation).

That is why the FS and FQ was not brought too the same number of damage as sweeping blasters.

Now I have cleared this up.

I think a solution for this is to just to give again the sorcerer around the same DPS numbers and healing as the merc does. And give the sorcerer just a bit more armor (just like they did a few months ago before 3.0).

This will solve the whole debacle about Sorcerer+ Sages not having enough DPS nowadays in Lightning/Telekinetics spec.

 

Now about those abilities that are still bugged....

 

- Force Quake:

> Since 3.0 (December 2014), this ability is still bugged, the channeling animation had an continuation of shaking of the ground and debris hurling up from the ground.

> Now 1 shock of the ground is clearly seen and then it stops.

> Can this please be fixed??

# Some people actually like this, I heard people got nauseous when they saw this happen everytime.

# So if this is too much work (cant imagine) but otherwise give it a new particle animation so it is more friendly for people who got sick afther seeing this animation.

# Anyways please fix this! In the coming months, because it has taken now long enough! ^^

- Lightning Bolt (LB) + Telekinetic Burst (TB)

> 2 new animations, they look lovely in their particle animation.

> But they are bugged when you get either too much alacrity or if you activate force speed and can activate them instantly.

- The firing animation of the body(that the hand rises up) cant keep up with the particle animation of the Lightning or Force Blast. So if you press this power you see the particle blast moving to your enemy, but the hand does not even lift up or makes moves like your character has epilepsia or something like that with his hands.

# Bioware see for yourselve in the game --> Force Speed --> LB/TB.

> Since 3.0 this bug still persist and because of it I did not even like to play Lightning/Telekenetics spec, because it looked so weird. I heard a lot of other people say it too, but they did not mind because the DPS was so nice of this Skill Tree.

> Can this please be fixed? Because if I want to play these skill trees then I have to get my old Lightning Strike + Turbulence powers back, because I cant stand to see how bugged the new powers look.

# Fix it please or make the old Turbulence/Lightning Strike powers do the same amount of damage as the new powers, so people can choose wich animation they like most (I like the new animations but I cant stand to see my characters make weird moves with their body like they are epileptic!).

# Better fix it! And Asap! It has taken too long to fix these power animation's too.

 

Tip: If it is too much work to fix this please give it the Lightning Strike / Turbulence, body animation of firing the ability. The new powers Vanquish and Demolish have it too! And it looks cooler for the sage in my opinion.

 

Finally I just want to say:

Sorry for the long post, and some spelling mistakes, I got a bit tired a long the way while typing, and I did not want to make it a rant post, just share info about this topic and what is bugged now in the game.

 

This is about the quality of the game. Best of luck bioware! You made an excellent game btw it is fun it only needs some tweaks and not too much coarse changes what you do lately with patches, what you made with 3.0 was a fun and cool design dont change that too much ( or go back to that design! because it is fun! ).

And btw I was sad to hear about some guys harressing an employee of the company. Stay in touch with us the community there are a lot of good people in the world, only some are weird. ^^

 

Have fun you all and take care!

 

Yours sincerely,

Domeniek.

[TitusOfTides]

Force Storm feels too short.

 

I think back to the class videos before the game was released, and the whole showcase of the Sorc video being FS iirc. Would not have won so many people over with a 3s duration, causing the Sorcerer to stop and cast it again.

Edited May 16, 2015 by TitusOfTides

[Kingsbount]

I love when people compare mercs and sorcs...

[-JE-BLAZAR-]

Hey Everyone!

I forgot to tell in my post how much the sorcerer does now in a 3 second channel.

 

With full 186 + 25% extra damage in 3 seconds is around the:

- 4600-4700 Damage

- Do that times 2: = 9200-9400 Damage in 6 seconds.

That is significant lower then the merc sweeping blasters ability.

 

 

"Merc sweeping Blasters with 186 gear +25% more damage does around:

- 6000-6250 Damage

> (As a 3 seconds cast time).

- 6000-6250 x 2 = 12.000-12.500 Damage.

> (If it where a 6 seconds cast time)."

 

In 3 seconds the merc does now at minimum 1400 more damage then the sorcerer.

Funny thing before the nerf it was the opposite the FS/FQ did 1600 more damage then sweeping blasters.

 

As comment to Kingsbount, I am not saying that mercs or sorcerers are the same, and that is why I compare them.

But when you look at their aoe what can be spammed in the same way, and that they are both ranged DPS what spam powers at a distance then they are similar only those points only the rest of their powers is different but when you look at their gameplay design and what their powers do with damage and healing then you can see in their design that the merc is now more designed to more damage output and less healing and the sorcerer does more healing and less dps.

 

Greets!

[-JE-BLAZAR-]

Lol i must place more dots in my sentences.

 

"As comment to Kingsbount, I am not saying that mercs or sorcerers are identically the same,and that I compare them because of this.

But when you look at their aoe what can be spammed in the same way, and that they are both ranged DPS what spam powers at a distance, then they are the same at only those points.

The rest of their powers is different.

But when you look at their gameplay design and what their powers do, with damage and healing, then you can see in their design that:

- the merc is now more designed to do more damage output and less healing

- and the sorcerer does more healing and less dps."

 

Greets! ^^

[Gyronamics]

Fascinating the numbers you're pulling out of somewhere for a "186 geared player"

 

If I just grab... a 198 geared character....

 

5559-6633 damage on Sweeping Blasters with 4463 aim, 1725 power, 198 MH and 198 OH and 25% AOE boost.

 

You need to be more worried.

 

You believe Force Storm sucks vs Sweeping Blasters damage

 

What if I told you that Death from Above and Flamethrower hit much harder than Sweeping Blasters... in 6 seconds the merc can do even more damage!!1!!1one

 

Obviously the sorc aoe needs reducing from a 16m circle to 10m like the merc and the damage increased. Sorcs will rejoice at their improved aoe damage potential and not mind that they can't hit as many targets with the smaller aoe circle.

[-JE-BLAZAR-]

Hey!

 

Yes you are right, it seems I messed up with numbers!

I just checked my merc to be sure,

"4827-5856 damage in a 5 meter cone in front of you"

I will check my numbers next time better.

Thanks for correcting me.

But still it is more damage then force storm but only in a smaller area too compensate this probably, force storm 8m radius and sweeping blasters in a 5 meter radius. Just like you said i agree, perhaps they should make it a 5 meter radius too.

But an larger area looks cool too for force storm.

Anyways I really want a fix for the bugged animations + force storm back too 6 seconds to give it an more awsome look again.

 

Have fun all!