Is BiowEAr embarrassed by their own triple-A MMO??

[GrimRita]

I find it difficult to compare any game launch with the Sim City launch. It was a complete and total catastrophe. SWTOR's launch wasn't problem-free, but for many players it went smoothly.

 

Sim City's launch was a nightmare for just about every person involved. Maxis fully deserved to be shut down after that fiasco. EA gave away several million free games to the customers who stuck it out through the launch, and even allowed a lot of people to receive full refunds, which is completely out of character for EA. Although, EA did backpedal a lot on the refunds and never did offer any to anyone who purchased a digital download. There were also some accusations of them censoring support phone numbers to make it more difficult for people to get refunds when they qualified.

 

You forget that over 1 million people quit the game with 2 months of launch. From a start of 1.7m that is a LOT saying goodbye so quickly. It just seems like history is repeating itself. The game is quiet for long periods, no communication,summer coming - sounds like just after launch.

[Friend-Referral]

You forget that over 1 million people quit the game with 2 months of launch. From a start of 1.7m that is a LOT saying goodbye so quickly. It just seems like history is repeating itself. The game is quiet for long periods, no communication,summer coming - sounds like just after launch.

SWTOR has around 200k to 300k sub's left now. You're right, and I don't think EAware is prepared to keep our current diminishing playerbase from staying.

 

I don't know about you, but I don't think reskinned cosmetics is enough to keep me here long.

[Darth_Wicked]

* snip *

 

That was me indeed.

 

For clarification however, it was not so much my immersion, but more so choices people get to make throughout the class stories -- for better or worse. The guys at BW Austin said many times, over the years, they had no intention whatsoever to override player choice; hence, at the time, I found that lapse in judgement fairly paradoxical.

 

Either way, it was only a name in a mail Jedi Knights receive post-Forged Alliances ( Part II ) and they addressed it fairly quickly. Kudos to them for that.

[AshenK]

Is that all you get from these posts? If so, I feel bad for you...wanna know what I see?

 

I see invested players. I see players passionate enough to post on the forums. I see inspired players. I see players like Dulfy making a career out of helping others, and hundreds of people supporting her. I see streaming players. I see player guides. I see suggestions and wish lists. I see guys like Gyronamics making guides to help others. I see helpful players. I see excitement. I see people craving MORE. I see players thinking about the future all the time. I see hope!!!!

 

I hope I never see anything the way you do...

you should see things the way we see it.

 

better yet tux you are one of the few that knew how great swg pre-cu was! you helped show people how awful swg was after the nge along with good folks like wildcat84. know what i see? bioware doing the same things $oe did to this game ignoring what we want and doing very little.

 

are they fixing classes? no

are they fixing gsf? no

have we heard anything about systems hinted at? no

 

they lost over 1.5 million players and are bleeding the rest out slowly. its time that the player base see this and see that it's time to demand changes.

[Ghisallo]

you should see things the way we see it.

 

better yet tux you are one of the few that knew how great swg pre-cu was! you helped show people how awful swg was after the nge along with good folks like wildcat84. know what i see? bioware doing the same things $oe did to this game ignoring what we want and doing very little.

 

are they fixing classes? no

are they fixing gsf? no

have we heard anything about systems hinted at? no

 

they lost over 1.5 million players and are bleeding the rest out slowly. its time that the player base see this and see that it's time to demand changes.

 

They just completely re-did the classes.. so it time to find out what needs to be fixed again... and news flash... half the time what a player says needs to be fixed in a class is actually WAI, they just don't like it.

 

The reason they lost the players, even according to themselves is... the game wasn't reason SO they had to catch up on the following...

 

1. at launch not enough en game content.

2. at launch running an incomplete/broken engine.

3. expecting players to take 3-5 months to go through the content they had at launch, not 30 days or less.

4. they lacked key social features at launch and had to add these in while trying to fix stuff.

5. a company who had never done an MMO

6. a company that had never had to manage a dev team that large

7. a company whose morale hit the dumper as co-founder's resigned and people got laid off.

 

Then with all of these problems their forced launch date was an idiotic one to chose...right before the 1-2 punch of GW and WoW's MoP.

 

I just love how a bunch of people who have a peeve or two point to those pet peeves as the problem when they simply aren't the issue at hand. The classes could have been the still never found miracle in an MMO, perfectly working and balanced, same with gsf and they still would have lost a butt ton of players because of a combination of factors, more than a few of which Bioware themselves had no control over.

 

And saying that players are leaving is blatantly IMPOSSIBLE to prove in a Subscription/F2P hybrid game when atm we only have the f2p revenue of 2014 to compare to 2013. micro-transactions are an inconsistent source of revenue by nature and using that AND a Q3 earnings report that doesn't include the launch of an expact further distorts the numbers.

 

I am not saying that in the end you are wrong btw. I am saying that atm categorically making your claims is either a sign of ignorance at best or intentional distortion at worst. I don't know ya so I won't speculate as to which one applies here.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Nommaz]

How far behind? Because we're definitely not getting the same level of content as WoW.

 

Or they managed to make that profit due to their policy of cutting corners everywhere they can.

 

As of WoW's last Expac it was basically content less, you to quests to 10 levels and a couple raids etc and then its all garrisons, the patch following that was more a bug fix and more garrison crap, right now we have more content going in than WoW, WOD did it for me since 2009, canned my sub.

[Ghisallo]

As of WoW's last Expac it was basically content less, you to quests to 10 levels and a couple raids etc and then its all garrisons, the patch following that was more a bug fix and more garrison crap, right now we have more content going in than WoW, WOD did it for me since 2009, canned my sub.

 

What made me laugh about garrisons is that they proved that WoW (even with for all the "This game is a WoW clone" I have seen for so many other MMOs) has always been and still is just as derivative.

[Paeronhierta]

I can't believe any of you would compare this to WoW. Someone even mentioned WoW and the amount of content added. Have you spent time in it lately? in WoD. They've practically run the game into the ground. It's like their claimed +70 developement team consist of raging apes. Everyone's bored out of their minds. My entire guild just decided to up and leave due to this.

 

Nah, man. I'd rather spend time in SWTOR, despite its shortcomings.

[EllieAnne]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/always?s=t

 

You prove my point. You claim they don't respond because they haven't responded to 'fill in your concern here'. The fact is they do respond or there wouldn't be a dev tracker at all. The fact that they haven't responded to your issue or you didn't like the response doesn't change that fact.

 

In most cases they likely don't respond because they know you'll like the answer less than you like no response. This community has a horrible knee jerk reaction to every single thing. I'm amazed they still respond to anything at all, but they do. Recent cases in point:

- New rules to weed out win traders/greifers in Ranked PvP

- Response about the flashpoint and eye color bugs

- The slot machine fiasco

etc etc

Are you Fing serious? Look at the example I gave. Just LOOK at it. I didn't talk about 12xXP or slot machines or getting rid of unload/full auto. My example is "Why do I have periods where I cannot play the game I paid for because the server keeps crashing!" I understand the developers ignoring "Why isn't Torguta in the game?" but a MAJOR playability issue? "Why can't I play my game?" "Why does the server keep crashing?" "Do you even know why the server keeps crashing?" I deserve an answer for that.

 

And I'm a big girl. If I ask a question, it is not up to them to decide if I want to hear the answer or not.

[Shwarzchild]

Are you Fing serious? Look at the example I gave. Just LOOK at it. I didn't talk about 12xXP or slot machines or getting rid of unload/full auto. My example is "Why do I have periods where I cannot play the game I paid for because the server keeps crashing!" I understand the developers ignoring "Why isn't Torguta in the game?" but a MAJOR playability issue? "Why can't I play my game?" "Why does the server keep crashing?" "Do you even know why the server keeps crashing?" I deserve an answer for that.

 

And I'm a big girl. If I ask a question, it is not up to them to decide if I want to hear the answer or not.

 

Seems a bit more of an issue that should be handled in a phone call rather than a forum post.

[EllieAnne]

Seems a bit more of an issue that should be handled in a phone call rather than a forum post.

No I'm talking about the run for about 2 months that Harbinger went down for extended times at least once a week and Eric would never say what was wrong or how they would fix the issue.

[Shwarzchild]

No I'm talking about the run for about 2 months that Harbinger went down for extended times at least once a week and Eric would never say what was wrong or how they would fix the issue.

 

Eric's latest post in dev tracker regarding your issue is dated 3/14/15. If they don't know the answer yet they can't tell you the reason. He says he will give info as he has it. What if he doesn't have it yet? Seems a little weird to be so up in arms when they've actually communicated.

[TUXs]

you should see things the way we see it.

 

better yet tux you are one of the few that knew how great swg pre-cu was! you helped show people how awful swg was after the nge along with good folks like wildcat84. know what i see? bioware doing the same things $oe did to this game ignoring what we want and doing very little.

 

are they fixing classes? no

are they fixing gsf? no

have we heard anything about systems hinted at? no

 

they lost over 1.5 million players and are bleeding the rest out slowly. its time that the player base see this and see that it's time to demand changes.

Oh, I know...I think you misunderstood what I was saying...

 

I was speaking only of the "toxicity" of the forums...I don't think us players are toxic at all. My comments were 100% about how fantastic the players are, they're passionate and support this game, not by only playing it, but by giving more than anyone should to help it succeed (like Dulfy, tor-fashion.com or anyone who writes a guide to help players).

 

What you're saying I agree with 100% - management at EA or Bioware appears to have given up on SWTOR, much like when SOE did when they cut the Dev staff to skeleton crew levels. Arguably though, SOE's developers were able to do far more than Bioware's seem to be able to.

 

The community here seems 1000x's more invested in making this game succeed than management does. I truly believe it's only a matter of time before the Austin studio goes bye-bye...you're right about all the signs pointing that way...

[EllieAnne]

Eric's latest post in dev tracker regarding your issue is dated 3/14/15. If they don't know the answer yet they can't tell you the reason. He says he will give info as he has it. What if he doesn't have it yet? Seems a little weird to be so up in arms when they've actually communicated.

 

No. This is not about the latest all servers down on a hicupp. Read these

1/24 Crash

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=792933&highlight=harbinger

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=792923&highlight=harbinger

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=792893&highlight=harbinger

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=792884&highlight=harbinger

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=792907&highlight=harbinger

+ Numerous others

1/21 Crash

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=792907&highlight=harbinger

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=791665&highlight=harbinger

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=791657&highlight=harbinger

1/4 Crash

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=787885&highlight=harbinger

 

Just some examples.

[JudasGray]

Just based on reading most of this thread...why do most of you even bother playing a game that provides such a crippling level of anger and hatred? Just doesn't make sense.

[mr_underhill]

Wow... just wow. Are you really still complaining about 3 server crashes lasting maybe 4 hours during nearly the first quarter of this year. In all honesty, that's actually pretty consistent up-time for nearly 3 months. The last crash occurring almost 2 months ago. For the sake of your own sanity. Let it go. Since the beginning of year, how many times has your PC or laptop crashed, or for that matter your smart phone, or router, or smart TV, or one of the myriad complex electronic devices you use on a regular basis. Do you bombard those companies tech support forums, or complain about their products? Just curious. A server by the way is exponentially more complicated then your gaming rig, and diagnosing, hardware, and or software issues can be difficult. Even with highly skilled techs working on it. Me I just go make a sandwich, open a beer, or do something else with my time if the servers go down. I have other options, other hobbies, friends, and family, dogs and cats... oh and books to occupy my time. Oh well. Just had to get that off my chest.

[Nefla]

Well BW hasn't been communicating with the community about DA:I either so I don't think it has anything to do with the games themselves.

[mr_underhill]

Just based on reading most of this thread...why do most of you even bother playing a game that provides such a crippling level of anger and hatred? Just doesn't make sense.

 

This^

[TUXs]

Just based on reading most of this thread...why do most of you even bother playing a game that provides such a crippling level of anger and hatred? Just doesn't make sense.

This^

 

You're mistaking frustration for "anger" or "hatred"...I get frustrated with the Packers all the time, mostly because I'm passionate about them, doesn't mean I don't love em.

[mr_underhill]

You're mistaking frustration for "anger" or "hatred"...I get frustrated with the Packers all the time, mostly because I'm passionate about them, doesn't mean I don't love em.

 

TUXs, I know what you mean about passion, and frustration. Believe me, I'm surrounded by die hard St Louis Blues fans. This wasn't directed towards you. I've read your posts over the last few years, I get where you're coming from. It's just there are some people that endlessly post negative and baseless things, and have been doing so for a long time. Just makes me wonder why they are still here. I've been on the internet since the days of Usenet and the BBS's of yore... since the early 80's. I know this place can be a retched hive from time to time.

Edited March 16, 2015 by mr_underhill

[TUXs]

TUXs, I know what you mean about passion, and frustration. Believe me, I'm surrounded by die hard St Louis Blues fans. This wasn't directed towards you. I've read your posts over the last few years, I get where you're coming from. It's just there are some people that endlessly post negative and baseless things, and have been doing so for a long time. Just makes me wonder why they are still here. I've been on the internet since the days of Usenet and the BBS's of yore... since the early 80's. I know this place can be a retched hive from time to time.

Ah, ok then...in that case, you're correct

[GrimRita]

Well BW hasn't been communicating with the community about DA:I either so I don't think it has anything to do with the games themselves.

 

That's because Bioware, like the rest of EA, don't understand Community. All they care about is throwing thousands of dollars/pounds/ cartel coins(but they got sent back) to the latest big named talent.

[Cupelixx]

If they aren't, they should be. I'm the first to admit, I've posted a lot of 'negativity' and frustration on these forums. It's not because I hate everything about the game. For the most part, I like the story. I love the PvP. I like the customization of my characters. I'm a fan of Star Wars. I like how the classes play.

 

That experience is tainted by an overwhelming and ever-growing list of bugs. Immersion breakers like missing dialog/sfx/characters/weapons in cutscenes. Crippling FPS bugs like the horrible UI drain that has gone unresolved and unaddressed for months. My favorite armor for my main character having a clipping bug introduced by a patch YEARS ago and still isn't fixed. PAID FOR armor on the CM that bugs out just as badly. Bizarre performance drops on certain planets with no explanation why.

 

And that's just my own experience. There are other things in the game that legitimately need to be fixed. I'm not talking about nice-to-haves like name purges and chat bubbles. I'm talking about things that ruin people's playability and perception of the game. On those issues, the default response of CMs and devs is silence.

 

People say maybe if we were nicer about things they would post more. Bull. The forums here are the worst cesspool of any MMO I've played, it's true. But they brought this on themselves. Yeah sure, take WoW's forums as an example. There's negativity there too. It exists on any MMO forum you will ever visit. That doesn't mean they should encourage and perpetuate it with silence. They have an established pattern going back to this games beta of ignoring reported issues, and cherry-picking easy posts to reply to. That's years of neglect. You can't expect people to have anything but frustration and even contempt at this point.

 

They really don't communicate well enough here. And their responses really aren't good enough on the rare instances they do post. People will always dissect anything a CM posts about it. Some will show appreciation and some will criticize. They need to post more meaningful replies, not walls of fluff that don't address or actually say anything. They need to take the compliments and complaints in stride and start publicly addressing the important issues. They need to stop acting like politicians and start acting as the type of people they claim--people who are excited and passionate about this game. They earned this level of malcontent. It's NOT the fault of the players. If this level of negativity is going to turn around it has to start with them.

 

If they can't start doing these things after this long, I don't see myself subbing ever again after I finish the class stories on my alts.

[MadHobbit]

Is this game in maintenance mode, and if so, how long has it been and how long will this lack of quantity and quantity to the development of SWTOR continue?

 

 

i feel we are NOT in maintenance mode, I feel we are in silent BETA mode.That they are adding things to see what is popular or not,what will generate us buying more CC,and how to handle expanding the game. Based on what happens they will make changes to the SWTOR2 using another newer better engine.(this is all rumor) Then in about 2 years SWTOR 2 will come out and This game will shut down. A lot of features they have added and was both popular and worked fine will be in the new game. things that did not work well or was unpopular will be changed. for example the new costume designer works mostly for appearance,but some games in the past you could have two or more full sets of armor one for pvp and one for pve. and a simple click of the button switches.no need to drag and drop between the two sets. or a third set designed for FP with some power differences. once they get swtor 2 ready , we get to buy strongholds and such all over again, once again helping Disney recover the 4.5 Billion they paid GL

[FerkWork]

Is this game in maintenance mode, and if so, how long has it been and how long will this lack of quantity and quantity to the development of SWTOR continue?

 

 

i feel we are NOT in maintenance mode, I feel we are in silent BETA mode.That they are adding things to see what is popular or not,what will generate us buying more CC,and how to handle expanding the game. Based on what happens they will make changes to the SWTOR2 using another newer better engine.(this is all rumor) Then in about 2 years SWTOR 2 will come out and This game will shut down. A lot of features they have added and was both popular and worked fine will be in the new game. things that did not work well or was unpopular will be changed. for example the new costume designer works mostly for appearance,but some games in the past you could have two or more full sets of armor one for pvp and one for pve. and a simple click of the button switches.no need to drag and drop between the two sets. or a third set designed for FP with some power differences. once they get swtor 2 ready , we get to buy strongholds and such all over again, once again helping Disney recover the 4.5 Billion they paid GL

 

Cool story. Provided a nice read on the toilet.