Premades in Unranked, what are their goals?

[Icykill_]

Main reasons.

 

a) Premades that consistently run FOTM specs backed by healers just want to rotflstomp. They can't handle losing and they sure as hell don't want an even fight.

 

b) Premades that queue up with any random class composition just want to play together.

 

My favourite is the 3 healer premades the pubs are running on Harbinger... You only need to look at the poor dps their side does, even though none of them die, to realise they are carrying the bad pub players everymatch

It doesn't help them in Hutt Ball... Or Arena... But brings node objective pvp to a stand still... Nearly impossible to get through doors in Void Star... Pylons is nearly a definate loss... nova and civil war can go either way... Regardless it is boring... It seems them having 3 healers is the only way they can win these days against Imps... But it is so boring... I usually change brackets or stop playing while they are running these premades

[SuetGroundwalker]

ahhh you're one of those guys that cried about 8man premades, and now pvp isn't as fun or even have a purpose to group w others for. i mean c'me on you're complaining about a premade of 4s... Edited March 14, 2015 by SuetGroundwalker

[Anyakaschala]

Goals? Simple

 

Win

play with friends

practice skills

get weekly done rapidly.

avoid mouth breathing, keyboard turning clickers

[HuaRya]

Goals? Simple

 

Win

play with friends

practice skills

get weekly done rapidly.

avoid mouth breathing, keyboard turning clickers

 

This is the ones the swtor devs put on a pedestal. The same ones who are painting their toe nails pink while wearing hats with cat ears.

[AlrikFassbauer]

avoid mouth breathing

 

For what is the mouth for, other than breathing ? Okay, you could have written "avoid mouth eating" as well ...

But ... I haven't tried eating soup through my nose yet ...

Edited March 14, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Helig]

For what is the mouth for, other than breathing ? Okay, you could have written "avoid mouth eating" as well ...

But ... I haven't tried eating soup through my nose yet ...

You aren't helping your case

[mmmbuddah]

ahhh you're one of those guys that cried about 8man premades, and now pvp isn't as fun or even have a purpose to group w others for. i mean c'me on you're complaining about a premade of 4s...

 

Lol, I am by no means crying, and your very intellectual contribution to this thread has been noted. Also, I wasn't even playing pvp when 8v8 was around, so..............there have been some very well thought out contributions to this thread, I am actually surprised it is still going, sadly, yours was not one of them.

[Ravenschild]

While I understand the reason people do it, to group up with their friends, etc, what are their goals? I mean, obviously it isn't a challenge to them to go into unranked at 60 and just faceroll the other team, and a LOT of people have simply stopped playing 60s because of it. IT really seems that some premades soley do it -only- to troll unranked.

 

Then you have the premades that roll ONLY fotm classes, don't these guys realize they are categorically making people leave pvp? I mean, it really seems like that is their goal. There is one specific imp guild on TRE servers, which I wont name because I know this thread will get deleted, which seems to ALWAYS be online, and always runs 1, if not 2 premades that are queue synced, and over the years people in my guild who ran solo, and on my friends list who run solo have simply stopped playing warzones because of it, or flat out left the game, do they not realize what they are doing? I know it isn't their fault that BW is incapable of doing something like cross server so making groups of premades only match up with other groups is not -that- viable, but it would just not seem fun to me. Why don't they just go into group ranked? I mean, I KNOW they aren't impossible to beat, hell me and a group of randoms on arenas have done it before, but when it comes to 8 v 8 objective, it seems nearly impossible. I know people will say "well, then group up", if people were actually WILLING to group up I would, but whenever I ask on rep fleet for people to group up, I get met with absolute silence.

 

To clarify I am not asking for premades to be not allowed, nor am I saying they should stop queuing with their friends, I am legitimately wondering why some people only run premades all day long on regs, not ranked group, and if they are aware that they are driving away a portion of players.

 

1:Several of us are in guilds with our friends and if we all have a day off together we group up and play together because we like to pvp together

2:To guarantee that at least 4/8 people will have 2018 expertise

3: Many people have all the adv classes so it may not be a case of FOTM (I won t say all are because I have ran into some FOTM players)

4:To guarantee at least half the team has full expertise

5:To guarantee 1/2 the team has full expertise

 

Did I mention to make certain at least 50% of the team has full expertise?

 

Now on a serious note. I run both grouped and solo and yes there have been times (far more frequent than I like in fact) that 50% of the team is under 1200 expertise,especially since 3.0. The worst I had dealt with was being the only person in an 8 man team with 2018. With Conquest listing pvp for Conquest points (which is a good thing for pvpers to be honest),guilds have recently insisted on their pve players pvping if they are trying to place in Conquest. This means many people with little expertise and no idea of what they are doing in pvp while not really wanting to pvp,but their guild insists and they like their guild. So they do so halfheartedly and that pretty much screws the team. There was a bunch of this pre 3.0 as well with the double xp weekends almost back to back for a month where people came into top tier pvp (55 at the time) with valor 22 or so and no gear with expertise other than what they could get with 2750 reg comms. They also didnt know what they were doing (lets face it 55 then and 60 now is very different than middie or lowbie) and so people grouped up in order to have a semi competent team. Now with this they are doing that even more. Those same people could come to these forums (and gods above and below I have pointed that out on numerous occasions) and learn but they insist they know what they are doing. These are also the same people that will take a node for the objective points then leave it because they do not want to guard. If I am with 3 other competent players,we can make certain that doesnt happen or call the guy on it since 4 people have a better chance of figuring out who did it than one. And lets face it,it isnt like the guy is gonna speak up when you ask "who left the node unguarded?".So in the end it is about self preservation.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Ravenschild
adding

[mmmbuddah]

1:Several of us are in guilds with our friends and if we all have a day off together we group up and play together because we like to pvp together

2:To guarantee that at least 4/8 people will have 2018 expertise

3: Many people have all the adv classes so it may not be a case of FOTM (I won t say all are because I have ran into some FOTM players)

4:To guarantee at least half the team has full expertise

5:To guarantee 1/2 the team has full expertise

 

Did I mention to make certain at least 50% of the team has full expertise?

 

Now on a serious note. I run both grouped and solo and yes there have been times (far more frequent than I like in fact) that 50% of the team is under 1200 expertise,especially since 3.0. The worst I had dealt with was being the only person in an 8 man team with 2018. With Conquest listing pvp for Conquest points (which is a good thing for pvpers to be honest),guilds have recently insisted on their pve players pvping if they are trying to place in Conquest. This means many people with little expertise and no idea of what they are doing in pvp while not really wanting to pvp,but their guild insists and they like their guild. So they do so halfheartedly and that pretty much screws the team. There was a bunch of this pre 3.0 as well with the double xp weekends almost back to back for a month where people came into top tier pvp (55 at the time) with valor 22 or so and no gear with expertise other than what they could get with 2750 reg comms. They also didnt know what they were doing (lets face it 55 then and 60 now is very different than middie or lowbie) and so people grouped up in order to have a semi competent team. Now with this they are doing that even more. Those same people could come to these forums (and gods above and below I have pointed that out on numerous occasions) and learn but they insist they know what they are doing. These are also the same people that will take a node for the objective points then leave it because they do not want to guard. If I am with 3 other competent players,we can make certain that doesnt happen or call the guy on it since 4 people have a better chance of figuring out who did it than one. And lets face it,it isnt like the guy is gonna speak up when you ask "who left the node unguarded?".So in the end it is about self preservation.

 

Another very well thought out considerate post , good on you sir! man I am surprised this thread is still going. I started adding people that were competent in pvp, because I don't want to leave my guild, so at least I can see when they are on and group .

[Aetideus]

To be fair, it happens both Imp / Rep side on TRE. It's nothing new and has been going on for as long as I can recall.

 

If you want an answer as to why it happens and why they do it? To win presumably, you know as well as everyone else here how bad some pugs can be. I don't actually blame them either, if anything the issue is with matchmaking allowing it or not pitting premades vs premades in the 4v4 arenas (or if enough 8v8).

 

That's the real issue, matchmaking not adjusting for premades and forcing them to go against another premade. Then you would only get queue syncs and that can mean facing off against each other instead of all being on the same team. Lots of options to stop this, it's just BioWare hasn't taken them.

 

The solution is to log Imp during morning times when guild B... logs and Rep night times when guild D... logs if you cant find premade

Edited March 17, 2015 by Aetideus

[Floplag]

1:Several of us are in guilds with our friends and if we all have a day off together we group up and play together because we like to pvp together

2:To guarantee that at least 4/8 people will have 2018 expertise

3: Many people have all the adv classes so it may not be a case of FOTM (I won t say all are because I have ran into some FOTM players)

4:To guarantee at least half the team has full expertise

5:To guarantee 1/2 the team has full expertise

 

Did I mention to make certain at least 50% of the team has full expertise?

 

Now on a serious note. I run both grouped and solo and yes there have been times (far more frequent than I like in fact) that 50% of the team is under 1200 expertise,especially since 3.0. The worst I had dealt with was being the only person in an 8 man team with 2018. With Conquest listing pvp for Conquest points (which is a good thing for pvpers to be honest),guilds have recently insisted on their pve players pvping if they are trying to place in Conquest. This means many people with little expertise and no idea of what they are doing in pvp while not really wanting to pvp,but their guild insists and they like their guild. So they do so halfheartedly and that pretty much screws the team. There was a bunch of this pre 3.0 as well with the double xp weekends almost back to back for a month where people came into top tier pvp (55 at the time) with valor 22 or so and no gear with expertise other than what they could get with 2750 reg comms. They also didnt know what they were doing (lets face it 55 then and 60 now is very different than middie or lowbie) and so people grouped up in order to have a semi competent team. Now with this they are doing that even more. Those same people could come to these forums (and gods above and below I have pointed that out on numerous occasions) and learn but they insist they know what they are doing. These are also the same people that will take a node for the objective points then leave it because they do not want to guard. If I am with 3 other competent players,we can make certain that doesnt happen or call the guy on it since 4 people have a better chance of figuring out who did it than one. And lets face it,it isnt like the guy is gonna speak up when you ask "who left the node unguarded?".So in the end it is about self preservation.

 

The only thing i say to these kinds of posts is that you have to separate regs from ranked in terms of requirements like this.

 

Thats not because they suck, or dont want to.. maybe they know what should be done, but the reality is you hit max levels and it does take a little time to gear up whether its a day for players that play a lot, or a week or two for others... there is a window that you wont have that gear. It simply is what it is. Yes, we still get new players or players just coming back.

 

Now that doesn't explain or allow for the bad play like abandoning nodes and such that you mention cause there really is no defending that, my point is that you cannot and should not expect a team full of full pvp geared players in every reg match. Rankeds.. different matter, i fully support the idea that there should be minimum levels in place for this level.

 

On could argue in fact if you want to grow the community it wouldnt kill some of you to try to help those guys, instead of gear shaming them.. just a thought.

[Amaste]

To clarify I am not asking for premades to be not allowed, nor am I saying they should stop queuing with their friends, I am legitimately wondering why some people only run premades all day long on regs, not ranked group, and if they are aware that they are driving away a portion of players.

 

Because objective maps for all their faults are still more fun than the same death matches vs the same 3-5 teams over and over again. World PvP in this game has always blowed compared to other games and there are people who just don't like running PvE content.

 

The objective matches are still the strongest part of PvP in this game, 4's were tossed in as a 'solution' to low ranked populations when they had no plans/ability to implement cross server queue. For me, queuing regs on the weekend is a great time to drink a bit, play, laugh, and continue gaming friendships that have spanned for over a decade. That and sometimes it's fun to just hop on and play whenever, instead of waiting set times for those select few who do ranked to log on. >.>

[AlrikFassbauer]

Thats not because they suck, or dont want to.. maybe they know what should be done, but the reality is you hit max levels and it does take a little time to gear up whether its a day for players that play a lot, or a week or two for others... there is a window that you wont have that gear. It simply is what it is. Yes, we still get new players or players just coming back.

 

I'm just waiting until the day the cry "News [Newbies] are coming !" is being an insult, just like "Bads are coming !"

What I mean is that I won't be surprised at all if "Newbies" becomes the new "Bads".

Edited March 17, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Ravenschild]

The only thing i say to these kinds of posts is that you have to separate regs from ranked in terms of requirements like this.

 

Thats not because they suck, or dont want to.. maybe they know what should be done, but the reality is you hit max levels and it does take a little time to gear up whether its a day for players that play a lot, or a week or two for others... there is a window that you wont have that gear. It simply is what it is. Yes, we still get new players or players just coming back.

 

Now that doesn't explain or allow for the bad play like abandoning nodes and such that you mention cause there really is no defending that, my point is that you cannot and should not expect a team full of full pvp geared players in every reg match. Rankeds.. different matter, i fully support the idea that there should be minimum levels in place for this level.

 

On could argue in fact if you want to grow the community it wouldnt kill some of you to try to help those guys, instead of gear shaming them.. just a thought.

 

I have helped those that want to be helped. In fact I helped one commando who didnt understand what he was doing wrong because someone told him he needed super commando armor (which is vanguard armor) in pvp. That is but one example.I have also done this with sorcs,snipers and slingers on my server.Except many of these folks do not want to learn. My favorite quote from one guy was "Dont tell me how to play,I do operations in hardmode and this cant be as hard as that". He also rushed in and got lit up and droped within 3 or so seconds. After that match I offered again (in whisper) and got cussed out. You cant help those who do not want to be helped. As to the no pvp gear or lack there of at 60,you do realize if you pvp in lows and mids and get your valor above 40 you can max both the regular and ranked comms rather easily before 60 correct? If you use your regular comms then covert ranked back to regular and use those as well (just keep track so you dont waste them) you can get most of if not a complete set of exhumed gear correct? Also being under 1200 means no pvp gear not some. I agree to a point on the separating thing. If they still did 8v8 ranked I would agree with it completely. Honestly if I wanted to do TDM, I'd play a first person shooter. As to the expect full teams of 2018, frankly I'd be happy if I had 5/8 that had 2018 when pugging on a regular basis. Out of doing my weekly yesterday (and that took 13 matches) I had 2 wz's that had 50% or more of the team in 2018. I do find it interesting that unlike doing operations it is ok according to some folks that you not have the appropriate gear for pvp. Especially when you consider you can get a full set by pvping in lows and mids and hitting valor 40 so you can unlock ranked comms. It is one thing when its one or two people on a team that has little or no pvp gear. It is another when the majority of the times you queue these people do not (especially during a Conquest event when their guild is pushing to get in top 10) have gear at all,nor do they care to get gear because they are "just there for the conquest points" or are "just there for the relics" (courtesy of why it started happening when 55 was cap).

Edited March 18, 2015 by Ravenschild

[Floplag]

I have helped those that want to be helped. In fact I helped one commando who didnt understand what he was doing wrong because someone told him he needed super commando armor (which is vanguard armor) in pvp. That is but one example.I have also done this with sorcs,snipers and slingers on my server.Except many of these folks do not want to learn. My favorite quote from one guy was "Dont tell me how to play,I do operations in hardmode and this cant be as hard as that". He also rushed in and got lit up and droped within 3 or so seconds. After that match I offered again (in whisper) and got cussed out. You cant help those who do not want to be helped. As to the no pvp gear or lack there of at 60,you do realize if you pvp in lows and mids and get your valor above 40 you can max both the regular and ranked comms rather easily before 60 correct? If you use your regular comms then covert ranked back to regular and use those as well (just keep track so you dont waste them) you can get most of if not a complete set of exhumed gear correct? Also being under 1200 means no pvp gear not some. I agree to a point on the separating thing. If they still did 8v8 ranked I would agree with it completely. Honestly if I wanted to do TDM, I'd play a first person shooter.

 

i wasnt suggesting anything about you in my response BTW.. i know many players that try to help and make that effort and i applaud them, and you, for doing so.

 

I am simply saying you cant have requirements for regs... there has to be entry level pvp that a person with no gear or clue of any kind at all can step into, its the only way we can grow the community. The only options would be further separations of 60 no gear and 60 geared regs... and of course along with that longer queue times.

 

Plus who would the guilds that premade regs all night farm? (sorry had to get that shot in there).

 

When they took out the entry level pvp gear we used to get, settings any kind of requirement become unfeasible. Now if they put that back then thats a different matter, but noone seems to like Bolster, and there is no longer any entry level gear so... file under cant have cake and eat it to i guess.

 

I for one would like to see more map and play style variety... half the tards play like its TDM anyway why not give us one, lol.

[Ravenschild]

i wasnt suggesting anything about you in my response BTW.. i know many players that try to help and make that effort and i applaud them, and you, for doing so.

 

I am simply saying you cant have requirements for regs... there has to be entry level pvp that a person with no gear or clue of any kind at all can step into, its the only way we can grow the community. The only options would be further separations of 60 no gear and 60 geared regs... and of course along with that longer queue times.

 

Plus who would the guilds that premade regs all night farm? (sorry had to get that shot in there).

 

When they took out the entry level pvp gear we used to get, settings any kind of requirement become unfeasible. Now if they put that back then thats a different matter, but noone seems to like Bolster, and there is no longer any entry level gear so... file under cant have cake and eat it to i guess.

 

I for one would like to see more map and play style variety... half the tards play like its TDM anyway why not give us one, lol.

 

Sorry but I see a misconception in your post I feel the need to correct. I went into my first lvl 60 pvp match with most of a full set if not a full set of lvl 60 pvp gear. 4200+2750=6950 comms (ranked+reg comms). Its not that difficult to pvp in lows and mids to be honest.Its not that much of a hardship to get to valor 40 and at valor 40 the ability to convert regular to ranked is unlocked. Seeing how you can get valor 40 at level 40 and that giving you 20 levels to max both,why would this be a hardship at all? Unless you are speed leveling with boosts? You can level with no difficulty just by rested and make certain your comms are maxed by 60. Once they are maxed then you speed level if you feel the need. I have never understood why people have such a difficulty with this concept. When I have explained it to people they tend to look shocked like it is some great revelation. It isnt rocket science. I mean by doing this you can have most if not a full set of pvp gear at level 60. Thats part of why they dropped the prices when they put out the last set of gear before exhumed. So you could get most if not a complete set. That is the entry level gear,it just has to be earned and not given.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Ravenschild

[Floplag]

Sorry but I see a misconception in your post I feel the need to correct. I went into my first lvl 60 pvp match with most of a full set if not a full set of lvl 60 pvp gear. 4200+2750=6950 comms (ranked+reg comms). Its not that difficult to pvp in lows and mids to be honest.Its not that much of a hardship to get to valor 40 and at valor 40 the ability to convert regular to ranked is unlocked. Seeing how you can get valor 40 at level 40 and that giving you 20 levels to max both,why would this be a hardship at all? Unless you are speed leveling with boosts? You can level with no difficulty just by rested and make certain your comms are maxed by 60. Once they are maxed then you speed level if you feel the need. I have never understood why people have such a difficulty with this concept. When I have explained it to people they tend to look shocked like it is some great revelation. It isnt rocket science. I mean by doing this you can have most if not a full set of pvp gear at level 60. Thats part of why they dropped the prices when they put out the last set of gear before exhumed. So you could get most if not a complete set. That is the entry level gear,it just has to be earned and not given.

 

You are correct, but you assume everyone has the knowledge on how to accumulate those comms and best use them and even then, as you say you had "mostly" a full set... the average player will hit the cap, have half what he needs, and queue up to get the rest under geared.

Again you arent wrong, you just assume they know this.. clearly, based on what i see in many regs, this is not the case.

Even if it was you assume they pvp all the way up, which may also not be the case.. what then? ... or a guy thats been playing since launch and never PvPd who decides he wants to try it. What do those players do.

I do it like you do, but i like to pvp, not everyone does.

[Ravenschild]

We have had people trying pvp for the first time since launch. It wasnt as if we were having appx 50% of most teams under 1200-1500 expertise until Conquest came out and guilds started pushing their pve players to pvp for the points. Prior to that is was ab out 1/4-1/3 in most matches with the "Im just here for the relics" thing when cap was 55. Prior to that it was typically 1/8 which were people who hit cap and then decided to pvp. I know I was one of those early on (right before 1.2 in fact) and people were willing to help explain things.Population on BC has remained pretty much the same on fleet (with dips at various times,but the population I see now is pretty much the same as then).Was it difficult to start gearing for pvp at cap? Absolutely. The prices were also much higher for the regular pvp gear. We also had premades then. Actually I think we had more premades then than we do now to be honest. It isnt the fact that they are there,it is the fact that they have increased exponentially and many refuse to adapt or learn even if it is offered.

[Floplag]

We have had people trying pvp for the first time since launch. It wasnt as if we were having appx 50% of most teams under 1200-1500 expertise until Conquest came out and guilds started pushing their pve players to pvp for the points. Prior to that is was ab out 1/4-1/3 in most matches with the "Im just here for the relics" thing when cap was 55. Prior to that it was typically 1/8 which were people who hit cap and then decided to pvp. I know I was one of those early on (right before 1.2 in fact) and people were willing to help explain things.Population on BC has remained pretty much the same on fleet (with dips at various times,but the population I see now is pretty much the same as then).Was it difficult to start gearing for pvp at cap? Absolutely. The prices were also much higher for the regular pvp gear. We also had premades then. Actually I think we had more premades then than we do now to be honest. It isnt the fact that they are there,it is the fact that they have increased exponentially and many refuse to adapt or learn even if it is offered.

 

Again im not aguing the point, only pointing out that it isnt an absolute. I see new players on fleet every night that ask questions only to get greeting with any number of nasty comments making sure noone else as fool enough to ask anything else. Whether or not they should know, or someone should have told them is moot.. it isnt always the case.

[cashogy_reborn]

While I understand the reason people do it, to group up with their friends, etc, what are their goals? I mean, obviously it isn't a challenge to them to go into unranked at 60 and just faceroll the other team, and a LOT of people have simply stopped playing 60s because of it. IT really seems that some premades soley do it -only- to troll unranked.

 

Then you have the premades that roll ONLY fotm classes, don't these guys realize they are categorically making people leave pvp? I mean, it really seems like that is their goal. There is one specific imp guild on TRE servers, which I wont name because I know this thread will get deleted, which seems to ALWAYS be online, and always runs 1, if not 2 premades that are queue synced, and over the years people in my guild who ran solo, and on my friends list who run solo have simply stopped playing warzones because of it, or flat out left the game, do they not realize what they are doing? I know it isn't their fault that BW is incapable of doing something like cross server so making groups of premades only match up with other groups is not -that- viable, but it would just not seem fun to me. Why don't they just go into group ranked? I mean, I KNOW they aren't impossible to beat, hell me and a group of randoms on arenas have done it before, but when it comes to 8 v 8 objective, it seems nearly impossible. I know people will say "well, then group up", if people were actually WILLING to group up I would, but whenever I ask on rep fleet for people to group up, I get met with absolute silence.

 

To clarify I am not asking for premades to be not allowed, nor am I saying they should stop queuing with their friends, I am legitimately wondering why some people only run premades all day long on regs, not ranked group, and if they are aware that they are driving away a portion of players.

 

OP answered his own question in literally the first sentence.

 

FFS..............

Edited March 19, 2015 by cashogy_reborn

[Fidelicatessen]

It's an interesting question and I think it depends on a number of things:

 

Firstly, how reasons differ from goals. I group up because I've been playing with the 6-7 active people in my guild for several years and enjoy their company. If they're not online, I solo queue. If they're online and I want to play in the same bracket as them, we often group up - if not I'll solo queue. Sometimes I'll even solo queue when we're in the same bracket because I don't feel like being in a group. Here my reason defines my goal: I group up with the goal of interacting with friends. I don't think there is a broader goal here beyond winning and learning to play our classes, which should be the goal of anyone PvPing.

 

Secondly, how you define a pre-made. This is a question that comes up time and time again. Four people grouped up does not equal an instant win. I have been steamrolled as a group, and have won plenty of times in PUGs against groups, both in arenas and objective-based WZs. Very often my guild uses Teamspeak, but if you listen to the recordings of our games you'll find we rarely actually talk tactics. We're usually in complete silence, or chatting about the people we're with/against, or talking about classes. Calling "inc" happens in the Ops group because we are aware there are other people outside of our group.

 

So that's communication - how about group composition? You will face groups who have brought together a Tank, Healer, 2 DPS. Or those running FOTM builds. But not all the time (at least on my server). My guildmates and I play the classes we feel like playing - we usually rotate through our alts for dailies and end up with bizarre combinations.

 

I guess what it comes down to then is this difference between what I would call a "true pre-made" and a "casual pre-made". A true pre-made actively uses voice chat to talk tactics, coordinate attacks, and have an optimal team composition. I can't give you a "goal" for doing that simply because I don't do it myself. A casual pre-made is literally a group of friends coming together and playing, who perhaps just happen to be good players.

 

I very often suggest that we all drop guild and see if pre-made accusations continue, because very often that's what it comes down to. If a team of randomly-guilded players gets defeated by another team of randomly-guilded players, it's GG and well played. If a team of randomly-guilded players gets defeated by a team of same-guilded players, it's a pre-made ruining PvP. A lot of the time their goal is just what you said in your first sentence though - to have fun with friends.

 

Well-written, thoughtful, honest, and completely spittle-free.

 

I give this post 10/10!

[mmmbuddah]

OP answered his own question in literally the first sentence.

 

FFS..............

 

I had other concerns that I wanted addressed, which others were courteous enough to address later on in the thread.

Edited March 19, 2015 by mmmbuddah