Premades in Unranked, what are their goals?

[J_McSkill]

If you're playing a MMO without friends you're doing it wrong.

[WickedImage]

I understand folks getting upset with pre-mades in regs. I'm not a fan either.

 

But what are they supposed to do when ranked is not popping? There is barely a ranked population, so where else can they go to pvp with their friends? There is only one solution for them.

I cannot disagree with their decision to go in regs and enjoy playing time with friends and guild mates.

Again, I do NOT like them being in regs. That is not where they are meant to be.(Many of them dislike it as much as reg players do)

I am basically a life long pugger, only delving into ranked here and there for fun/ranked comms occasionally.

But until there is a place for them...they are welcome in my reg matches.

[omeru]

I know that guild you referring and i agree you them being really annoying and making people leave pvp. And worse part is some of them making fun of other players is totally unacceptable, when i see them solo queue they are decent players not great. Not gonna give name (but you know who i refer) their reg destroyer assassin with premade is almost at the bottom of ranked list. Only a few of them are capable of changing game with solo others needs premade with OP classes and voice com to destroy other teams.

[Brunner_Venda]

If you're playing a MMO without friends you're doing it wrong.

 

This ^^^

 

Plus, premades are the only way to keep at least three window-licking morons off of your team.

 

Serious, without premades I don't see how any of you remain sane playing this game. With the right three people, I can carry and win a 6v8 game, where at least two ****ters are off picking their nose or uselessly camping the other node without taking it.

[Floplag]

i give certain people grief on this, but it isnt for what they do, but how they do it.

 

We all want to play with our friends, its a MMO after all, its social.. nothing wrong with that at all. The ones i give grief to are those that do this, and then want to talk smack about it as though they just achieved something that should have been a foregone conclusion... them i give a little grief and a reminder that they dint do anything special.

 

Bottom line, pre-mades arent the problem... dont like it, make one of your own, there are always people hanging around the terminal solo queuing.

[JourrnoRush]

Another issue is that a lot of people aren't that good at PvP.

 

This comes down to their team is better than yours. Satan forbid there are better players that are friends and decide to play together.

 

My real question to those who complain about premades:

 

How does it feel knowing that you can whine, cry, and complain all you want, but it will never be fixed NOR should it be...

[SHAVEDKILLER]

Their goal is to Faceroll u....lol, DUH.....Stop pugging or get farmed.

[Saikochoro]

The goal of premades is to have fun.

[Saikochoro]

If you read the original post you would see that I am not against people grouping up. Please read the thread before commenting.

 

You have to understand though that any thread about premades will turn into a battle between those who are fine with premades and those that think premades are spawn of satan.

[Brunner_Venda]

You have to understand though that any thread about premades will turn into a battle between those who are fine with premades and those that think premades are spawn of satan.

 

Here's a secret for those who complain about pre-mades.

 

If you're really good, you get invited to group with other good players. Top the charts. Score. Focus on objectives. Help people getting killed or kited using taunts. Stop dueling in the pits or end zone. Follow the ball closely. Stop dueling. Respond to calls. Stop tunneling tanks and Mark the healers. Focus targets with other players. Quit being bad, pay attention.

 

Above all, don't be a whiny douche. Thank the tank who saved you and the healer with 2,000,000 heals when you have 800K damage taken. Tell the other team GG instead of talking trash.

 

I usually start off solo, and end up in a four group by the end of the night with friends. I don't even ask most of the time.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Brunner_Venda

[Transcendent]

I am legitimately wondering why some people only run premades all day long on regs, not ranked group, and if they are aware that they are driving away a portion of players.

 

To be fair, it happens both Imp / Rep side on TRE. It's nothing new and has been going on for as long as I can recall.

 

If you want an answer as to why it happens and why they do it? To win presumably, you know as well as everyone else here how bad some pugs can be. I don't actually blame them either, if anything the issue is with matchmaking allowing it or not pitting premades vs premades in the 4v4 arenas (or if enough 8v8).

 

That's the real issue, matchmaking not adjusting for premades and forcing them to go against another premade. Then you would only get queue syncs and that can mean facing off against each other instead of all being on the same team. Lots of options to stop this, it's just BioWare hasn't taken them.

[Floplag]

That's the real issue, matchmaking not adjusting for premades and forcing them to go against another premade. Then you would only get queue syncs and that can mean facing off against each other instead of all being on the same team. Lots of options to stop this, it's just BioWare hasn't taken them.

 

THIS is whats driving people away.. not premades. if you dont like facing premades join a guild, make a team, there are a dozen ways to counter that, but the matchmaking needs to be improved dramatically. That isnt a premade problem, thats a game problem... dont confuse the 2

[Ridickilis]

The goal is to win ACW 600-0, AHG 600+ - 0, NC 100 - 0 and huttball 5- 0 then hold the ball for the last 10 minutes while farming kills till the clock runs out.

 

How's my aim?

[Lotsanerv]

I was solo queuing a few weeks ago, and my team was garbage. I stuck it out trying to be a thorn in the other team's side. I wrote in say chat, something like "LOL guys, why are you guys queuing regs??" They simply responded with "To feed on your tears." I think that's the answer to your question in the OP. Edited March 11, 2015 by Lotsanerv

[Saikochoro]

Here's a secret for those who complain about pre-mades.

 

If you're really good, you get invited to group with other good players. Top the charts. Score. Focus on objectives. Help people getting killed or kited using taunts. Stop dueling in the pits or end zone. Follow the ball closely. Stop dueling. Respond to calls. Stop tunneling tanks and Mark the healers. Focus targets with other players. Quit being bad, pay attention.

 

Above all, don't be a whiny douche. Thank the tank who saved you and the healer with 2,000,000 heals when you have 800K damage taken. Tell the other team GG instead of talking trash.

 

I usually start off solo, and end up in a four group by the end of the night with friends. I don't even ask most of the time.

 

Yeah pretty much. I tend to like to solo pug though. The friend I usually play with is way to busy to play now. I get invited to groups sometimes, but I've made it a habit to be wary of who I group with. I once got invited to a group after a warzone with them. We had fought a pretty crappy team and so I figured they were okay so I joined up. Took me two warzones to make some excuse to quit the team. Once things got rough they turned to th blame game and trash talking and not helping out the team at all. But I didn't want to be a douche and join a team just to quit because they suck. So I tend to not join teams unless I have seen the people in several games and can judge their behavior and performance.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Their goal is to Faceroll u....lol, DUH.....Stop pugging or get farmed.

 

See my current signature ?

 

 

Because of this,

 

The goal is to win ACW 600-0, AHG 600+ - 0, NC 100 - 0 and huttball 5- 0 then hold the ball for the last 10 minutes while farming kills till the clock runs out.

 

and because of this,

 

I was solo queuing a few weeks ago, and my team was garbage. I stuck it out trying to be a thorn in the other team's side. I wrote in say chat, something like "LOL guys, why are you guys queuing regs??" They simply responded with "To feed on your tears." I think that's the answer to your question in the OP.

 

that's why I did my current signature.

 

 

That's the real issue, matchmaking not adjusting for premades and forcing them to go against another premade. Then you would only get queue syncs and that can mean facing off against each other instead of all being on the same team. Lots of options to stop this, it's just BioWare hasn't taken them.

 

I personally agree to this as well. This would be the perfect solution, imho.

Edited March 11, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Ridickilis]

and because of this.

 

Just for the record, I was taking the piss (trolling) and I even used the closest smilie I could find for the troll face to make it obvious!

 

Though I should admit I did have you and your arguments on this specifically when I posted that. I was wondering when you'd show up. (see, I'm doing it again)

 

Not all guilds/premades do this, it goes back to "the few ruin it for everyone". If I were to guess, based on my own pug experiences in 3 years, more of them do not engage in that type of douchebaggery than the few groups who do. It's the few that do it stand out and that's all that people will remember, sadly.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Ridickilis

[georgemattson]

My answer might be a bit different than the others, in that my priority is always to have a good game and, if given the choice (and the cooperation), I'd be more than happy to stand down one member of the team when my 4 is going against 3 in an arena. I've suggested it, but haven't gotten a bite on that yet (although my pre-made was very close to agreeing to it the last time; I think we just need to coordinate faster).

 

What I LOVE more than anything is a closely fought match between two sides where everyone did their best, and I would greatly prefer to lose 2-0 in an ACW match (as I have done once) than win 600-0. When you're just facerolling the other team, there's no joy in it at all.

 

What I hate is when I'm queued with the self centered YOLO window lickers who don't give a rat's ***** about winning and are just there to farm comms and maximize DPS. If we lose 600-0, but they topped the charts, it's all about how everyone else sucked. Never mind the fact that they abandon nodes like yesterday's leftover garbage and couldn't guard anything to save their lives; it's all about the "Deeps" for them.

 

I actually got into a bit of a spirited debate with one guy yesterday about this; he seemed (at least at first) to be completely unable to understand that trying to cap all three nodes on ACW was a sure fire method to losing. As a group, we outclassed the Imps and we absolutely should have won (the majority of top spots were on our side), but the Imps were smart about how they played; peeling players off of nodes while someone else capped, and going as a group to cap or interrupt caps. After the first couple times, when they realized we were better at the DPS & defending than they were and that some of us wouldn't pop DCDs at the first 4-second soft mez, they started hitting every node in groups of 5. Our DPS "gods," on the other hand, were running like crazy from one node to the next, abandoning each node with no guards to go farm more comms. Then they'd talk smack about how no one bothered to guard or call INC, of course.

 

Yet this guy (who, coincidentally, topped the charts) was absolutely livid with me for mentioning that we would have won if people had stayed to guard and if we'd focused on holding two nodes instead of trying to take three. "It's all about the DPS," he kept repeating (about 5 or 6 times, IIRC), and couldn't seem to comprehend that regardless of how much DPS or HPS we did, we still lose if the other side controls two nodes for the majority of the match. He did eventually stop responding, so I hope that he understood what I was saying and was just too angry to admit it, but I'm afraid I probably just lost him and he's likely still just as bad today.

 

The goal is to win ACW 600-0, AHG 600+ - 0, NC 100 - 0 and huttball 5- 0 then hold the ball for the last 10 minutes while farming kills till the clock runs out.

 

How's my aim?

 

For some, I'm sure dead on. For me, totally off. As mentioned before, I greatly prefer a close loss where everyone played well, cooperated, and showed good sportsmanship and teamwork over one where we steamroll the competition.

 

The guy I mentioned in the first response, above, said to me, "If we'd had two of me, we would have won," and while I don't necessarily agree that his statement was accurate, I will say that I'd prefer to lose gracefully with a group of friends than to win in a steamroll with a bunch of jackholes like that guy.

 

Yeah pretty much. I tend to like to solo pug though. The friend I usually play with is way to busy to play now. I get invited to groups sometimes, but I've made it a habit to be wary of who I group with. I once got invited to a group after a warzone with them. We had fought a pretty crappy team and so I figured they were okay so I joined up. Took me two warzones to make some excuse to quit the team. Once things got rough they turned to th blame game and trash talking and not helping out the team at all. But I didn't want to be a douche and join a team just to quit because they suck. So I tend to not join teams unless I have seen the people in several games and can judge their behavior and performance.

 

^^ THIS ^^

 

I love to group with my guildies, and I will say that we tend to win a lot more when we're grouped up, but that comes from everyone knowing what to do and being unselfish enough to do what needs to be done to win. One guy (a stealth) typically guards and is quick to call out INC. The rest of us instantly respond (or as quickly as we can). We also agree on a strategy beforehand, and we follow it. If it doesn't work right away, we stick with it, or adjust as appropriate. We know how to focus a target as well. But overall, the key is that we all care about the WIN, and we care more about the win than we care about the coms. Our best DPS guy honestly didn't even know what comms were until I explained it to him on Saturday (it's lowbie PvP, and this is his first SWTOR toon, although he's done a lot of PvP in the past). I've seen him (and all the others) in matches, and they won't even remotely hesitate to drop off of someone trying to peel them from a node, even when I'm standing there guarding it, if there's a question about where some of the other enemy are. That assassin might be at 10%, and an easy kill (and possible medal), but they'll drop him like a hot potato because it means leaving the node guard alone with other stealthers in the area.

 

THAT is what motivates our pre-mades, and while I can't speak for others, it seems to me that as a thoughtful and considerate PvP player who wants a good match, you have these options:

• Queue with random people who may potentially a.) be selfish jerks who only care for themselves (thus helping you to lose), b.) be completely clueless, yet very defensive about it (usually due to the first group mentioned), c.) be somewhat decent (or better), but following no particular strategy beyond "I'll do what I think is best, which may or may not conflict with what everyone else thinks is best."
  
• Queue with people you know who will a.) care about the group and the win, b.) be on the same page as you, and using the same strategy.
  

[FerkWork]

meh. I would support a solo only queue, but there really isn't the population for it. and we already have 3 separate queues.

 

the goal is to pvp with friends. and rated doesn't pop. or, in my case on JC, there's only 3 regular pvpers, and we're all dps. (luls) one's a jugg, one's a pt, one's a merc. that's one good, one OP (soon to be nerfed) and one weak class. translation: not competitive in rated. no point pugging a tank or heal while a friend sits. also...not fans of the balance in game. can't take it seriously enough to queue atm.

 

all of that said, we usually end up against other premades anyway. some LD50 guys were opposite us in at least 3 WZs last night. holocron had a virtual 8m with 7 guildies opposite us in a NC. I get that you sometimes get grp'd with other grps vs pugs and the matchmaking in regs is horrible. but that's really the issue, imo.

 

 

My favorite is when I get Holocron v LD50 and the bants fly.

Honestly, I don't care about premades. What annoys me is people when people get in groups and do nothing but **** talk the whole time. And in regs of all places. As someone who place on JC I've run across one particular individual who does that and can be quite an ******. But that person usually gets trolled by an entire guild so I digress

[foxmob]

If you're really good, you get invited to group with other good players. Top the charts. Score. Focus on objectives. Help people getting killed or kited using taunts. Stop dueling in the pits or end zone. Follow the ball closely. Stop dueling. Respond to calls. Stop tunneling tanks and Mark the healers. Focus targets with other players. Quit being bad, pay attention.

 

you assume that solo Qers are bad? when my friends want to play, I want to queue with them. that's reason enough to /thread. but what you describe...that's awfully competitive. really. I'm going to invite you because you're good. I'm only going to play with good players. now look. I've put the 4 best players on the map onto the same team. that's a terrible match. what does that prove? if I'm grouped with the 4 best players in the match, I can win 6v8. I mean...you're not considering that an accomplishment, are you?

 

do it if you want. don't talk **** in /say about how bad the competition is. not that you said you do that but...yeah. it happens often. and the inverse happens with pugs whining.

 

honestly, the worst part about running into a good premade while pugging is when some moron on your team keeps telling your team what to do. don't go mid. stop feeding them kills. blah blah blah. meanwhile, it's patently obvious from the drop of the gates that your teams are drastically imbalanced. and then the moron tries to talk **** to the other team on the other faction using genchat, trying to shame them for being in a premade. that''s equally as frustrating as getting stepped on by a good premade and then having them taunt you as if it takes some great feat of skill when you're grp'd with the 3-4 best players on the map.

 

iunno. take of that what you will. if ppl on both sides would just st-eff-u, I'd be happy.

[mmmbuddah]

i give certain people grief on this, but it isnt for what they do, but how they do it.

 

We all want to play with our friends, its a MMO after all, its social.. nothing wrong with that at all. The ones i give grief to are those that do this, and then want to talk smack about it as though they just achieved something that should have been a foregone conclusion... them i give a little grief and a reminder that they dint do anything special.

 

Bottom line, pre-mades arent the problem... dont like it, make one of your own, there are always people hanging around the terminal solo queuing.

Dem pop times lately though

 

You have to understand though that any thread about premades will turn into a battle between those who are fine with premades and those that think premades are spawn of satan.

I am trying to avoid this by making my stance clear at the beginning, it seems people just blindly reply though. Sadly.

 

Their goal is to Faceroll u....lol, DUH.....Stop pugging or get farmed.

 

Thank you for your well thought out intelligent contribution to the conversation.

 

To be fair, it happens both Imp / Rep side on TRE. It's nothing new and has been going on for as long as I can recall.

 

If you want an answer as to why it happens and why they do it? To win presumably, you know as well as everyone else here how bad some pugs can be. I don't actually blame them either, if anything the issue is with matchmaking allowing it or not pitting premades vs premades in the 4v4 arenas (or if enough 8v8).

 

That's the real issue, matchmaking not adjusting for premades and forcing them to go against another premade. Then you would only get queue syncs and that can mean facing off against each other instead of all being on the same team. Lots of options to stop this, it's just BioWare hasn't taken them.

 

I know this would cause pop times to be longer at first, but I genuinely believe if that were to happen people would come back to pvp, it wouldn't be the end all win all solution to the dwindling population, but it could be a good start.

 

The goal is to win ACW 600-0, AHG 600+ - 0, NC 100 - 0 and huttball 5- 0 then hold the ball for the last 10 minutes while farming kills till the clock runs out.

 

How's my aim?

 

From what I have experienced now and then, not too far off. I do think some people do it to troll, but im sure just the same amount of people do premades to play with their friends. The problem is finding a solution to the trolling, Which I covered in one of my further up replies.

 

Just for the record, I was taking the piss (trolling) and I even used the closest smilie I could find for the troll face to make it obvious!

 

Though I should admit I did have you and your arguments on this specifically when I posted that. I was wondering when you'd show up. (see, I'm doing it again)

 

Not all guilds/premades do this, it goes back to "the few ruin it for everyone". If I were to guess, based on my own pug experiences in 3 years, more of them do not engage in that type of douchebaggery than the few groups who do. It's the few that do it stand out and that's all that people will remember, sadly.

 

That is indeed unfortunate, I don't understand why BW doesn't understand that if hey fixed pvp, they would gain more pvp players, more pvp players, means more subs, more subs, means more profit. I guess though, if it makes sense, it doesn't happen, applies here.

[mmmbuddah]

My answer might be a bit different than the others, in that my priority is always to have a good game and, if given the choice (and the cooperation), I'd be more than happy to stand down one member of the team when my 4 is going against 3 in an arena. I've suggested it, but haven't gotten a bite on that yet (although my pre-made was very close to agreeing to it the last time; I think we just need to coordinate faster).

 

What I LOVE more than anything is a closely fought match between two sides where everyone did their best, and I would greatly prefer to lose 2-0 in an ACW match (as I have done once) than win 600-0. When you're just facerolling the other team, there's no joy in it at all.

 

What I hate is when I'm queued with the self centered YOLO window lickers who don't give a rat's ***** about winning and are just there to farm comms and maximize DPS. If we lose 600-0, but they topped the charts, it's all about how everyone else sucked. Never mind the fact that they abandon nodes like yesterday's leftover garbage and couldn't guard anything to save their lives; it's all about the "Deeps" for them.

 

I actually got into a bit of a spirited debate with one guy yesterday about this; he seemed (at least at first) to be completely unable to understand that trying to cap all three nodes on ACW was a sure fire method to losing. As a group, we outclassed the Imps and we absolutely should have won (the majority of top spots were on our side), but the Imps were smart about how they played; peeling players off of nodes while someone else capped, and going as a group to cap or interrupt caps. After the first couple times, when they realized we were better at the DPS & defending than they were and that some of us wouldn't pop DCDs at the first 4-second soft mez, they started hitting every node in groups of 5. Our DPS "gods," on the other hand, were running like crazy from one node to the next, abandoning each node with no guards to go farm more comms. Then they'd talk smack about how no one bothered to guard or call INC, of course.

 

Yet this guy (who, coincidentally, topped the charts) was absolutely livid with me for mentioning that we would have won if people had stayed to guard and if we'd focused on holding two nodes instead of trying to take three. "It's all about the DPS," he kept repeating (about 5 or 6 times, IIRC), and couldn't seem to comprehend that regardless of how much DPS or HPS we did, we still lose if the other side controls two nodes for the majority of the match. He did eventually stop responding, so I hope that he understood what I was saying and was just too angry to admit it, but I'm afraid I probably just lost him and he's likely still just as bad today.

 

 

 

For some, I'm sure dead on. For me, totally off. As mentioned before, I greatly prefer a close loss where everyone played well, cooperated, and showed good sportsmanship and teamwork over one where we steamroll the competition.

 

The guy I mentioned in the first response, above, said to me, "If we'd had two of me, we would have won," and while I don't necessarily agree that his statement was accurate, I will say that I'd prefer to lose gracefully with a group of friends than to win in a steamroll with a bunch of jackholes like that guy.

 

 

 

^^ THIS ^^

 

I love to group with my guildies, and I will say that we tend to win a lot more when we're grouped up, but that comes from everyone knowing what to do and being unselfish enough to do what needs to be done to win. One guy (a stealth) typically guards and is quick to call out INC. The rest of us instantly respond (or as quickly as we can). We also agree on a strategy beforehand, and we follow it. If it doesn't work right away, we stick with it, or adjust as appropriate. We know how to focus a target as well. But overall, the key is that we all care about the WIN, and we care more about the win than we care about the coms. Our best DPS guy honestly didn't even know what comms were until I explained it to him on Saturday (it's lowbie PvP, and this is his first SWTOR toon, although he's done a lot of PvP in the past). I've seen him (and all the others) in matches, and they won't even remotely hesitate to drop off of someone trying to peel them from a node, even when I'm standing there guarding it, if there's a question about where some of the other enemy are. That assassin might be at 10%, and an easy kill (and possible medal), but they'll drop him like a hot potato because it means leaving the node guard alone with other stealthers in the area.

 

THAT is what motivates our pre-mades, and while I can't speak for others, it seems to me that as a thoughtful and considerate PvP player who wants a good match, you have these options:

• Queue with random people who may potentially a.) be selfish jerks who only care for themselves (thus helping you to lose), b.) be completely clueless, yet very defensive about it (usually due to the first group mentioned), c.) be somewhat decent (or better), but following no particular strategy beyond "I'll do what I think is best, which may or may not conflict with what everyone else thinks is best."
  
• Queue with people you know who will a.) care about the group and the win, b.) be on the same page as you, and using the same strategy.
  

 

Wow, are you sure we aren't the same person? Lol, VERY well thought out response, I appreciate the effort you put into that post, and I agree 598502983248438424248302 % with everything you said.

[JouerTue]

there's a lot of them, but mainly because they are the only pvp guild left and they gathered a lot of good imps in their ranks. they are not the first and won't be the last, i could list at least 3 guilds that used to do the same in the past years.

unless there are premades with good players in rep side doing dailies or since yolo don't pop, you are going to face them and you are going to be solo against good players.

i know they can be annoying since timed stuns or knockbacks make you loose the WZ, but i've never been harrassed by them and they are not particularly OP. they've jsut the coordination among 4 players who know what they are doing, and it's achievable in your side too..

[Brunner_Venda]

you assume that solo Qers are bad? when my friends want to play, I want to queue with them. that's reason enough to /thread. but what you describe...that's awfully competitive. really. I'm going to invite you because you're good. I'm only going to play with good players. now look. I've put the 4 best players on the map onto the same team. that's a terrible match. what does that prove? if I'm grouped with the 4 best players in the match, I can win 6v8. I mean...you're not considering that an accomplishment, are you?

 

do it if you want. don't talk **** in /say about how bad the competition is. not that you said you do that but...yeah. it happens often. and the inverse happens with pugs whining.

 

honestly, the worst part about running into a good premade while pugging is when some moron on your team keeps telling your team what to do. don't go mid. stop feeding them kills. blah blah blah. meanwhile, it's patently obvious from the drop of the gates that your teams are drastically imbalanced. and then the moron tries to talk **** to the other team on the other faction using genchat, trying to shame them for being in a premade. that''s equally as frustrating as getting stepped on by a good premade and then having them taunt you as if it takes some great feat of skill when you're grp'd with the 3-4 best players on the map.

 

iunno. take of that what you will. if ppl on both sides would just st-eff-u, I'd be happy.

 

I never talk trash while running premade, I agree that it's bad form when I'm running around with a pet tank, a healer, and DPS syncing with me on evert global. although I have said a nasty thing once or twice after pugging and beating a certain imperial guild premade that is famous for mouthing off after every win.

[clearsighted]

They do it for two reasons.

 

1) Playing with friends, especially RL friends, is way more fun than playing alone. I get to pvp with RL friends maybe once or twice a week, and I love those warzones.

 

2) They like winning and feeling superior. Everyone is guilty of this. Premades is one way of assuring it. It also makes weeklies go faster.

 

I prefer yolo, when I'm not playing with friends. There'll still be q-synching pubs, but its better than going into regs against 4 man guild pre-mades pounding out their weeklies.

Edited March 12, 2015 by clearsighted