12 x XP for class-missions

[Ratajack]

qft^

 

One issue is that MMOs are evolving. Gone is the Holy Trinity of Tank, Healer or DPS (except in the end-game where it is very much alive). Black Desert claims it will have support roles instead of pure healers. SWTOR follows the trend of current MMOs having every class be DPS with the "Trinity" being Some tanking, Some healing or More DPS. Skill-trees was revolutionary when it came out 7-8 years ago and the idea of crew skills and companions is very new (You used to have to run quests by yourself or a PUG). Some MMOs are dispensing with the concept of leveling all together. Grinding is a characteristic of Korean MMOs and while it may be traditional to grind in an MMO I think many here have decided that "traditional" means correct. SWTOR was meant to be (or at least marketed as) an new idea in MMOs - one I think 12xXP (limited to those with a certain number of toons at level 60) would work out very well with.

 

As long as you meet whatever limits they set, that is.

 

I can only speak for myself, but it's not that I think that "grinding" is "correct".

 

It's that the devs design games in certain ways, Yes, that design changes as the game ages, but the ultimate authorities are the DEVS. They are the ones who make the decisions based on THEIR visions, not your vision, not my vision not that of any other player.

 

If I do not like the way the game is designed, then I can choose to go play a different game. I'm not going to whine, cry, clamor or throw temper tantrums because the game isn't exactly what I want it to be. I'm not going to demand or expect that the devs change it to suit MY play style or my aversion to effort.

[Ratajack]

From what I've seen, the reason most people want 12x xp is to see the class stories. And putting it on the PTS doesn't change the economics of it at all. Bioware would still likely be forgoing revenue (due to people spending less time with the game than without 12x xp).

 

If BW chose to charge a fee in CC's for the creation of a max level character on the PTS, then BW would be creating revenue, and those that claim to want only to see the stories will get to do so.

 

Seems like a WIN/WIN to me.

 

Case A:

 

Johnny is a subscriber now, with a few max level characters. He belongs to guild, has friends, runs OP's, FP's, dailies, etc. with those max level characters. He will still likely continue to subscribe and play with his friends, even if he gets to see those stories on the PTS. BW would not lose any revenue from his subscription, but would GAIN revenue from the CC cost to create those max level characters on the PTS. This would be a net gain for BW.

 

Case B:

 

johnny is a preferred player. He stopped paying the subscription fee because he's not really into the whole end game OP's, FP's, etc. He's already bought all the unlocks and escrows he can buy. He still plays to spend time with his friends, but he is not spending a cent to play. BW is making NO revenue from him. BW offers the chance to pay some CC's to create max level characters on the PTS, so he buys $20 worth of CC's to see the other stories. This would be a net gain for BW.

[Spirited]

As long as you meet whatever limits they set, that is.

 

I can only speak for myself, but it's not that I think that "grinding" is "correct".

 

It's that the devs design games in certain ways, Yes, that design changes as the game ages, but the ultimate authorities are the DEVS. They are the ones who make the decisions based on THEIR visions, not your vision, not my vision not that of any other player.

 

If I do not like the way the game is designed, then I can choose to go play a different game. I'm not going to whine, cry, clamor or throw temper tantrums because the game isn't exactly what I want it to be. I'm not going to demand or expect that the devs change it to suit MY play style or my aversion to effort.

 

So you've never asked an MMO dev to change anything regarding PVP abilities/balancing or make changes to loot drops or anything like that? I agree with you up to a point but MMO devs more than any other NEED to listen to their players if they wish to be commerically viable. If bioware or EA see that there's enough of a call for 12xp or something else to play only the story or more likely think it will give them more money I don't see why they shouldn't. To say that players who potentially pay monthly to not ask that their vision of the game be catered to somewhat is ridiculous really.

[EllieAnne]

BW could set it up so that when you create that max level character, you get the max level character of the class you choose, a set of reasonable--not BIS, but let's say blue quality level 60 gear (and at 60 even level 60 greens should be enough to do the stories) and an adaptive speeder. Companions could also have a set of blue quality when you get them. I may be wrong, but I would think that it would be possible to set it up so that when you complete the quest granting the companion, a set of blue quality gear is mailed to you.

 

If you are creating max level characters on the PTS, with reasonable (not BIS, but reasonable), there should be no gearing issues. The characters are ALREADY max level and geared. You are sent a set of reasonable for each companion when you get that companion. There should also be no issues with money, as skills are free. I fail to see the urgent need to purchase anything, since the only thing those interested parties claim to want is to see the stories.

 

Was it ever decided if the toon would start off at max level? I always thought they would start at level 1 and would have to progress albeit at a faster class rate. And would your side have a problem if people bought max toons simple to make FOTM toons to run endgame?

Edited March 23, 2015 by EllieAnne

[TUXs]

I will ask you the same question I asked an earlier poster.

 

Would you be satisfied if BW allowed the creation of max level characters on the PTS?

 

At max level, you should be able to go a zoom through the stories uninterrupted.

 

IMO, anyone who's TRUE goal is simply to experience the stories should find this satisfactory.

Not at all, PTS isn't even a server, it's a preview that's up from time to time.

 

My true goal is to be able to do more online with classes I like, or to experience the class stories from classes I'm not fond of. I have no desire to play on PTS ever...also, characters on PTS get wiped.

[Clarian]

If BW chose to charge a fee in CC's for the creation of a max level character on the PTS, then BW would be creating revenue, and those that claim to want only to see the stories will get to do so.

 

Seems like a WIN/WIN to me..

I think you're wrong about that. The question isn't whether it would create revenue, but whether it would create more - or less - revenue than otherwise. If it would create less, then it's not a win-win.

 

It comes down to this: some people want to see the stories and insist on 12x xp - they won't play without it. But some people want to see the stories and would prefer 12x, but would still play without it. For those people, their lifetime with the game would be shorter, and they would likely spend less over their total lifetime.

 

So...if you think allowing people to zoom through the stories wouldn't hurt the game, but letting people get a boost to endgame would hurt the game, I think you've got it backwards. Unlike the people who zoom through the stories, the people who boost to endgame are likely to stick around and play endgame, and a boost removes the barrier for entry to them. (The trick would just be, disable class story quests for boosted characters, so that it couldn't be used for that, just for endgame.)

[Ratajack]

Was it ever decided if the toon would start off at max level? I always thought they would start at level 1 and would have to progress albeit at a faster class rate. And would your side have a problem if people bought max toons simple to make FOTM toons to run endgame?

 

Here is my question:

 

I will ask you the same question I asked an earlier poster.

 

Would you be satisfied if BW allowed the creation of max level characters on the PTS?

 

At max level, you should be able to go a zoom through the stories uninterrupted.

 

IMO, anyone who's TRUE goal is simply to experience the stories should find this satisfactory.

 

I did specify the creation of max level characters. This is a suggested compromise which should address the concerns held by those against 12XP, while still giving those who claim to only want to see the stories, the option to do so without interruption.

 

As to your second question, I can only speak for myself.

 

If they were creating max level characters on the PTS to try the FOTM in endgame situations on the PTS, then no I would not have a problem.

 

If you are talking about the creation of max level characters on the live server and COMPLETELY skipping any leveling, then I would be against that. The increase in FOTM classes that even a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" would bring is one of the concerns that those against 12XP have brought up time and time again. It is one of the reasons why I, and others, are against 12XP. Allowing the creation of max level characters on the live server would simply exacerbate that situation.

[TUXs]

I think you're wrong about that. The question isn't whether it would create revenue, but whether it would create more - or less - revenue than otherwise. If it would create less, then it's not a win-win.

 

It comes down to this: some people want to see the stories and insist on 12x xp - they won't play without it. But some people want to see the stories and would prefer 12x, but would still play without it. For those people, their lifetime with the game would be shorter, and they would likely spend less over their total lifetime.

 

So...if you think allowing people to zoom through the stories wouldn't hurt the game, but letting people get a boost to endgame would hurt the game, I think you've got it backwards. Unlike the people who zoom through the stories, the people who boost to endgame are likely to stick around and play endgame, and a boost removes the barrier for entry to them. (The trick would just be, disable class story quests for boosted characters, so that it couldn't be used for that, just for endgame.)

You're missing those people who play without it, but would play more with it.

[Ratajack]

I think you're wrong about that. The question isn't whether it would create revenue, but whether it would create more - or less - revenue than otherwise. If it would create less, then it's not a win-win.

 

It comes down to this: some people want to see the stories and insist on 12x xp - they won't play without it. But some people want to see the stories and would prefer 12x, but would still play without it. For those people, their lifetime with the game would be shorter, and they would likely spend less over their total lifetime.

 

So...if you think allowing people to zoom through the stories wouldn't hurt the game, but letting people get a boost to endgame would hurt the game, I think you've got it backwards. Unlike the people who zoom through the stories, the people who boost to endgame are likely to stick around and play endgame, and a boost removes the barrier for entry to them. (The trick would just be, disable class story quests for boosted characters, so that it couldn't be used for that, just for endgame.)

 

I think you will find that many more of those CLAIMING to want to see only the stories are not TRULY interested in just the stories. IMO, that is simply an attempt to disguise their TRUE motivations. They want that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" due to their laziness--their aversion to the minimal effort required to level those alts.

 

If BW allowed the creation of max level characters on the PTS, and ONLY on the PTS, I do not think you would see too many people actually use that option due to the fact that it IS the PTS and not the live servers. You may see a few take advantage of that option. I imagine that some will use that option to see the stories and others will use it to try out the FOTM in various situations.

 

If you want that max level character on the live servers for endgame, or whatever reason, you can already have it. All it takes is a minimal amount of effort. We already have more XP boosts than some other MMO's and leveling has never been hard in this game. In fact, this game has always been the easiest game in which to level that I have played, even more so with all of the currently available XP boosts.

 

I simply do not see the need for a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level".

[Clarian]

You're missing those people who play without it, but would play more with it.

 

As far as revenue generation, I don't think it's really playing more that matters, but playing over a longer timespan - having a longer subscriber lifetime. I don't know if there's any reason to think 12x xp would contribute to that.

[TUXs]

As far as revenue generation, I don't think it's really playing more that matters, but playing over a longer timespan - having a longer subscriber lifetime. I don't know if there's any reason to think 12x xp would contribute to that.

As I stated earlier, because of lockouts, I tend to skip a lot of content (especially now since 3.0) that I would run if I had another 60 Commando. Instead of joining a PuG, I log out because my lockout's been used.

[FerkWork]

Opinion?

 

Seems like all you're trying to do is be rude and insult people...have a look:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've never seen such a disgusting post history. You're more interested in calling other players names than you are anything else. You don't argue why it would be bad, you just name call. I find it shocking you haven't been banned yet.

 

Whenever I look at his posts all I can think of is this

[Ratajack]

Not at all, PTS isn't even a server, it's a preview that's up from time to time.

 

My true goal is to be able to do more online with classes I like, or to experience the class stories from classes I'm not fond of. I have no desire to play on PTS ever...also, characters on PTS get wiped.

 

We know your true motivation is your aversion to the minimal effort required to level those characters. You've already told us countless times.

 

The suggestion of the creation of max level characters on the PTS was made so that those players who's TRUE motivation is to see the stories can do so uninterrupted, but also address the concerns held by those against 12XP.

 

The target player, the player who is, IMO, most likely to use that option to see the stories is probably only concerned about seeing the stories. Most likely, he is not interested in end game, or running OP's, FP's, etc. He would likely not care if his character's get wiped. He will have already seen the story, and that is HIS true motivation.

 

Would there be some that will use it to try the FOTM? Probably, but even those will not likely care that that character gets wiped. Their goal is to try the FOTM and see how it plays and whether they will want to level one on the live server.

 

Allowing the creation of max level characters ON THE PTS would even have the benefit of giving players to chance to see how ANY class would play at end game, after they get all their skills.

[Clarian]

I think you will find that many more of those CLAIMING to want to see only the stories are not TRULY interested in just the stories

I don't have any reason to think so...and you didn't present any evidence for that. I think the people who say they just want to see the stories are being sincere.

If BW allowed the creation of max level characters on the PTS, and ONLY on the PTS, I do not think you would see too many people actually use that option due to the fact that it IS the PTS and not the live servers.

I do. People who just want to see the stories wouldn't care if it was on live or PTS.

I simply do not see the need for a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level".

I think there are good reasons WoW has one. (Not max level, but the previous max level.) The one thing I'd say is, since WoW has had more expansions, there's a bigger slog there. It may be too early for it to be a big seller for this game. But if it makes more money for EA and gives the players something they want...then it's a win-win.

[TUXs]

We know your true motivation is your aversion to the minimal effort required to level those characters.

Awwwwwe...another insult...how shocking... When you can't debate, just throw out another insult huh?

[Ratajack]

As I stated earlier, because of lockouts, I tend to skip a lot of content (especially now since 3.0) that I would run if I had another 60 Commando. Instead of joining a PuG, I log out because my lockout's been used.

 

The point is whether or nor you are logged into the game, you are STILL paying the subscription. You are STILL providing revenue for BW.

 

 

I doubt that BW cares one whit if you are logged into the game 24/7 or don't log on for two weeks straight.

[Clarian]

As I stated earlier, because of lockouts, I tend to skip a lot of content (especially now since 3.0) that I would run if I had another 60 Commando. Instead of joining a PuG, I log out because my lockout's been used.

For people in that position, I think a boost to 50 or 55, with class stories disabled, would be good.

 

(And/or take another look at lockouts? I don't have an opinion either way on that myself, though. But long term, I'm not sure the fact that you log out really matters as much as the fact that you log in again when the lockout is over.)

[Dokar]

The point is whether or nor you are logged into the game, you are STILL paying the subscription. You are STILL providing revenue for BW.

 

 

I doubt that BW cares one whit if you are logged into the game 24/7 or don't log on for two weeks straight.

 

You do know this game only gets 20% of it revenue from subscriptions?

 

Someone not in game is not buying from the CM where most of the revenue is coming from.

[TUXs]

For people in that position, I think a boost to 50 or 55, with class stories disabled, would be good.

 

(And/or take another look at lockouts? I don't have an opinion either way on that myself, though. But long term, I'm not sure the fact that you log out really matters as much as the fact that you log in again when the lockout is over.)

I'd be fine with a boost or even a "clone" button...but I've long supported your second idea, which is to revisit the lockouts.

 

And long term, I'm one less person to fill a queue after Tuesday night...I'm willing to PvP or PvE (PuGs, guild, Fleet chat, GF), why wouldn't you want me online more? I'm not above doing any content or helping anyone, as long as I'm online.

[ivanhedgehog]

We know your true motivation is your aversion to the minimal effort required to level those characters. You've already told us countless times.

 

The suggestion of the creation of max level characters on the PTS was made so that those players who's TRUE motivation is to see the stories can do so uninterrupted, but also address the concerns held by those against 12XP.

 

The target player, the player who is, IMO, most likely to use that option to see the stories is probably only concerned about seeing the stories. Most likely, he is not interested in end game, or running OP's, FP's, etc. He would likely not care if his character's get wiped. He will have already seen the story, and that is HIS true motivation.

 

Would there be some that will use it to try the FOTM? Probably, but even those will not likely care that that character gets wiped. Their goal is to try the FOTM and see how it plays and whether they will want to level one on the live server.

 

Allowing the creation of max level characters ON THE PTS would even have the benefit of giving players to chance to see how ANY class would play at end game, after they get all their skills.

 

its amazing that you and only you has the power to ferret out people "true" motives. you seem to be the one having a tantrum, calling people names. It maybe that you are too lazy to put in the minimal effort to get in an active guild and depend on leeching from pugs. people have told you why the pts is not the answer, but you just charge along calling them names. I have all the max level characters I can ever run, I dont need any more, but I feel that giving people the 12xp option is a good idea. I have 24 55+ toons. I even went to the length to level a bh to alderaan just to get the "baroness" title. So no, I am not lazy. I did use 12x xp to view some story lines without interruption, it made them much more interesting. good story telling.

If they put 12x xp on the cm tomorrow, I wouldnt buy it. But I dont feel the need to tell you that you have to or cant buy it. Im not a control freak. You rant and rave and assign people ulterior motives. You might want to seek professional help with that.

[TUXs]

its amazing that you and only you has the power to ferret out people "true" motives. you seem to be the one having a tantrum, calling people names. It maybe that you are too lazy to put in the minimal effort to get in an active guild and depend on leeching from pugs. people have told you why the pts is not the answer, but you just charge along calling them names. I have all the max level characters I can ever run, I dont need any more, but I feel that giving people the 12xp option is a good idea. I have 24 55+ toons. I even went to the length to level a bh to alderaan just to get the "baroness" title. So no, I am not lazy. I did use 12x xp to view some story lines without interruption, it made them much more interesting. good story telling.

If they put 12x xp on the cm tomorrow, I wouldnt buy it. But I dont feel the need to tell you that you have to or cant buy it. Im not a control freak. You rant and rave and assign people ulterior motives. You might want to seek professional help with that.

 

THANK YOU! Great reply and absolutely spot on!

[ivanhedgehog]

I'd be fine with a boost or even a "clone" button...but I've long supported your second idea, which is to revisit the lockouts.

 

And long term, I'm one less person to fill a queue after Tuesday night...I'm willing to PvP or PvE (PuGs, guild, Fleet chat, GF), why wouldn't you want me online more? I'm not above doing any content or helping anyone, as long as I'm online.

 

I suggested at an earlier cantina that they give subscribers 2 tokens a week that lets them clear the lockout on an op. they could enter and help but would not be able to loot. it would let me play more with guildies but not affect the gearing curve.

[FerkWork]

You do know this game only gets 20% of it revenue from subscriptions?

 

Someone not in game is not buying from the CM where most of the revenue is coming from.

 

Shh don't spoil the surprise!

[Ratajack]

You do know this game only gets 20% of it revenue from subscriptions?

 

Someone not in game is not buying from the CM where most of the revenue is coming from.

 

That is presuming the person who is not logged on would actually be spending CC's in the CM.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I would not likely spend any more in the CM if I were able to play for 4 hours a night, as opposed to the 3 or 4 hours a week that I currently get to play. I do buy CM items on the GTN, but BW is getting the revenue from the people that purchase those items on the CM whether or not I am logged in.

[jstankaroslo]

I think you will find that many more of those CLAIMING to want to see only the stories are not TRULY interested in just the stories. IMO, that is simply an attempt to disguise their TRUE motivations. They want that "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level" due to their laziness--their aversion to the minimal effort required to level those alts.

 

If BW allowed the creation of max level characters on the PTS, and ONLY on the PTS, I do not think you would see too many people actually use that option due to the fact that it IS the PTS and not the live servers. You may see a few take advantage of that option. I imagine that some will use that option to see the stories and others will use it to try out the FOTM in various situations.

 

If you want that max level character on the live servers for endgame, or whatever reason, you can already have it. All it takes is a minimal amount of effort. We already have more XP boosts than some other MMO's and leveling has never been hard in this game. In fact, this game has always been the easiest game in which to level that I have played, even more so with all of the currently available XP boosts.

 

I simply do not see the need for a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass to max level".

 

I think you are missing the point entirely. If I'm wrong, and this was explained somewhere between page 1 and 51 than I apologize.

You've obviously made up your mind and decided that all who want 12x class story experience are lazy, etc. Although I know that you'll include me in this category, I'll try one last time explain to you what we, or at least me want:

The story of your character is your class story. In the class story is your character development, what makes them what they are at every moment of this game. Other missions save planetary ones and flashpoints are irrelevant. And unrealistic. Mighty sith warrior wouldn't postpone his mission for Dark Council member just to kill a bunch of pirates for some random trooper (mission giver). This is just game design, and it is fine for gameplay, but frankly it isn't well tuned with the main story.

 

Planetary story arcs are a bit different, as they are important, but... if you play your 4th rep/imp character -you've already done them all.

 

The idea behind 12x for class stories is to build your character from scratch end enjoy their story without side quest interruptions. Getting ready max level character does no good as we don't experience the journey from lowly slave to DC Member, from smuggler to galactic crime lord etc. And would be pointless to me, as I don't need a max level character. Being level 60 and doing end of chapter 1 would be idiotic -your character isn't so powerful yet.

 

I've already played 10 different characters through chapters 1-3. I was planning to leave the game after I've done all 8 stories, but decided to try one more smuggler (different gender and alligment than before). Then 12x hit, and I took the opportunity to play another, this time LS Sith Warrior. Believe me -I wouldn't have if not for 12x

In my play style it takes more than a month, usually more than 2 months to get to the end of chapter 3.

Doing all those KDY, Warzones and most importantly -side quest -including planetary arcs- gets old eventually.

After almost 3 years I'm sure I have no interest in endgame activities -just don't find them fun.

Bu still I'd like to try DS Knight, or LS Consular, female BH etc. I will not if this means normal gameplay. If they made 12x (as an option to unlock) I might stay a month or two longer to try those.

 

So no, this is not lazy, this is giving a game one more try. I found normal levelling fun for the first 4 times, but after that it is too much time consuming. I will not create another character after my current 11th unless they give me an option to play my class story without side missions