Those DPS who pull, go balls out and then blame the tank when you wipe....

[chrn]

I'm sure this kind of stuff has been brought up before, but this just ticked me off. So I just ran hard mode Athiss with this DPS jugg, I quit early. I play a Jugg myself, level 56 tank, in full 55 gear. I've played MMO's since Burning Crusade came out, and have played all roles in several MMO's and I was under the impression that the tanks job is to tank and the DPS is to kill things. That's how the dynamic works. This DPS jugg immediately starts running ahead of me and pulling all the groups. He does this for more than half the pulls, what results is this. He pulls, blows his load and builds a bunch of aggro, naturally, I dive in and taunt, smash, start sweeping slashing. He has so much aggro on me from pulling that the taunt drops and then they go straight after him, The healer is having to spam him to keep him up, when I finally get aggro back on everything, said healer is so focused on him that he doesn't even notice my health is dropping like a bolder in water, I proceed to either have to pop all my crap or die, group almost wipes. We make it to the first boss, I pull and start building threat on boss. He Goes balls out, which is fine on a boss, however the adds pop. Neither of the DPS go for the adds, I'm beating on the boss and see them making a bee line for the healer and begin to pound on him. Seeing they aren't doing what they're supposed to I have to jump over and grab threat, DPS jugg keeps pounding on boss, pull threat, healer busy healing him self, dies, then I die, then group wipes. DPS jugg then proceeds to tell me "Don't think you can tank hard mode flashpoints" even though I've been doing that for the last 6 levels with no problems what so ever. At this point, I'm naturally annoyed and tell him to stop pulling and to ease DPS if he pulls threat (the things I was taught as a DPS in every MMO I've played). He proceeds to rage on me. I quit, he then whisper's me and continues his trash talk. I ignore him. In my old guilds a guy like this would have been kicked from the group immediately. What's ironic is that he complained in the beginning of the FP that he was having trouble with this map before, I have not. Common denominator? So yeah, a little venting. Any horror stories form anyone else?

[Feargal]

TL;DR: *******es cause a wipe and it's extremely frustrating to OP.

[Bachannal]

I keep grouping with "tanks" who seem to think that they can just run around playing a stealth game, never pull ANY bosses, and then do things like stop mid fight to grab loot or secondary objectives rather than actually grabbing aggro from mobs or bosses. See that a lot on KDY.

 

Now of course, some folks will say "KDY is a tactical, and you don't *need* traditional roles" bla bla bla - but just how do you think people learn their roles exactly? Unless I'm with a group that I know is geared well enough and competent enough to fight fights correctly, I no longer just assume that anyone can run any tactical and not need to actually play their own role. Considering how many folks I have seen wipe in KDY, I can't imagine what it would be like to run an OP or FP that actually requires some level of knowledge with someone who never bothered to learn and play their class properly.

 

And...I know I'm not perfect. Lord knows due to having my own rotation not set up correctly my 1st encounter with the Underlurker didn't go so well, and I had to learn a lesson and took some criticism for it...and it just made me sit down and read through some walkthroughs and watch some vids to understand what I was doing wrong. I wonder how many people ever try and learn from these sorts of situations, or if they just keep rolling through these team based runs like little Leroy Jenkins'.

[enigmacypher]

sadly this is common.

 

it gets started with KDY because you can run it with 3 DPS and a healer (I often get pulled into it with my lower level healers and it is usually 3 DPS and me as heals also sadly I HATE KDY and I AM SO BORED OF IT BEING THE ONLY ONE LOWER LEVELS GET TO DO).

 

now this is part of it but not all of it since they do this on most games .. the correct solution is to LET them pull .. switch stances and let them die ..

 

Please just warn the healer before you do this as I for one hate being flattened because you need to teach DPS how to play their spec

[Djiini]

Just let me point out to Bach:

 

Tanks control the flow. They lead by default. You shouldn't engage anything. Only the tank should attack groups first.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Djiini

[Bachannal]

Just let me point out to Bach:

 

Tanks control the flow. They lead by default. You shouldn't engage anything. Only the tank should attack groups first.

 

Oh I know...but then they should actually lead. Not just stand there waiting for DPS to do their job for them and then not even attempting to do their job whatsoever. lol

[Walpurulis]

Idk there is 2 sides to every story. I rarely run fps cuz I prefer HM/NiM raiding and I will say when I do the amount of horribad tanks in GF is astounding. First sign is when they guard a healer. This tank apparently know nothing about threat generation. You litteraly have to basic attack a trash mob to pull it off a heals. Most tanks in GF don't even have a clue about and optimal threat rotation. When I give the tank a good 5 seconds to build threat open up with a lethal burst dump aggro then rip afterwards that's on the terribad tank. Like honestly just delete your toon already. After all that the guard stays on the heals lol. This might be a L2P issue.

[ScicleX]

Idk there is 2 sides to every story. I rarely run fps cuz I prefer HM/NiM raiding and I will say when I do the amount of horribad tanks in GF is astounding. First sign is when they guard a healer. This tank apparently know nothing about threat generation. You litteraly have to basic attack a trash mob to pull it off a heals. Most tanks in GF don't even have a clue about and optimal threat rotation. When I give the tank a good 5 seconds to build threat open up with a lethal burst dump aggro then rip afterwards that's on the terribad tank. Like honestly just delete your toon already. After all that the guard stays on the heals lol. This might be a L2P issue.

 

The Tank should have aggro on everything, making them the only one taking damage because they can mitigate some of it, the healer has to keep them alive by spam healing them, which generates initial threat on anything that is aggro'd and doesn't initially get hit by the tank due to range issues or mid-fight spawns. This means guarding the healer is the best option to keep yourself alive IN FPs. Taking any and all stress off the healer means they can keep you alive longer, and odds are the DPS who may pull aggro should be aware and prepared to use their defensive CDs if they do. Honestly guard all depends on the individual fights you're about to pull, and can/should be swapped around accordingly, but the easiest answer in all FPs is to guard the healer if you're not able or willing to constantly swap it around.

 

To the OP:

If you're ever having issue holding threat off a DPS, be nice about it and accept blame. Just simply say "I'm having trouble holding threat off you, would you mind waiting a few seconds to start DPSing after I pull? It'll make this a lot easier on all of us." The biggest thing that holds groups back in Pugs is communication, most players out there are willing to work with people if they let them know up front what they're getting into. If you think you might not be geared for whatever you queued for, say so in chat. If you don't know the mechanics to a fight, say so in chat. If you've never been in that instance before, say so in chat. If you don't have much time and need it to be a quick run, say so in chat. If after you've said something to your group about your capabilities, they decide they don't want to run with you for whatever reason, then accept it and move on. Some players come in under geared or inexperienced, and others are elitests that expect every run to be as fast as possible. You can't control others, but you can at least let them know where you stand so you can try to find what works best for all of you.

 

I personally expect every run to be as fast as possible, but wont get upset if somebody tells me they need help before we start. I will either let them know I don't have time to do a slow run and ask them to replace me, or help instruct them on how to properly complete the content with the gear they're working with. Nothing wrong with either approach, and Group Finder isn't always perfect, sometimes the groups put together just aren't compatible with each other, and you have to be able to identify that and move on.

 

In the end it's creating an easier way to group people up than asking in random chats for exactly what type of run you're looking for. Try to find a guild or some like minded friends on your server that will run with you the way you want. Just have fun and don't take it seriously, it's a game.

Edited February 13, 2015 by ScicleX

[Savej]

Sometimes they get sweaty and need a good wipe.

[Kalfear]

this really explains it all (and works for all DPS really)

 

[Marb]

The Tank should have aggro on everything, making them the only one taking damage because they can mitigate some of it, the healer has to keep them alive by spam healing them, which generates initial threat on anything that is aggro'd and doesn't initially get hit by the tank due to range issues or mid-fight spawns. This means guarding the healer is the best option to keep yourself alive IN FPs. Taking any and all stress off the healer means they can keep you alive longer, and odds are the DPS who may pull aggro should be aware and prepared to use their defensive CDs if they do. Honestly guard all depends on the individual fights you're about to pull, and can/should be swapped around accordingly, but the easiest answer in all FPs is to guard the healer if you're not able or willing to constantly swap it around.

 

The threat reduction would do nothing for a healer, spawning and untouched enemies would still go after the healer with a guard.

[Halinalle]

Oh I know...but then they should actually lead. Not just stand there waiting for DPS to do their job for them and then not even attempting to do their job whatsoever. lol

 

Do you know what also is tank's job? To make sure everyone is at full HP before pulling the boss. Also healer must have full or near full resources, especially if healer is Sage/Sorc. And no, it's not healer's job to heal your Marauder between pulls and especially before boss fight.

 

Boss fights:

If you are not using regen as Marauder/Sentinel before boss fight to get 30 stacks, you're doing it wrong.

 

The Tank should have aggro on everything, making them the only one taking damage because they can mitigate some of it, the healer has to keep them alive by spam healing them, which generates initial threat on anything that is aggro'd and doesn't initially get hit by the tank due to range issues or mid-fight spawns. This means guarding the healer is the best option to keep yourself alive IN FPs. Taking any and all stress off the healer means they can keep you alive longer, and odds are the DPS who may pull aggro should be aware and prepared to use their defensive CDs if they do. Honestly guard all depends on the individual fights you're about to pull, and can/should be swapped around accordingly, but the easiest answer in all FPs is to guard the healer if you're not able or willing to constantly swap it around.

 

Healer only gets damage reduction from Guard. Any enemy that hasn't been attacked by tank or dps will eventually run to healer. At this point we would have to ask important question: what is dps doing?

 

DPS who is doing their job properly is more likely to get hit by enemy/boss.

 

Every time I get 55 HM GF pop on my Marauder boss eventually turns around and says "Hello there." and I have to use Force Camo... and it repeats every few seconds except that I don't have Force Camo available.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Halinalle

[ZETA_SCORPII]

Makes you appreciate players who know how to play their roles . I pug a lot and things usually go smooth, but I've definitely had my share of bad groups.

[LoverNoFighter]

When playing my healer, I usually just heal myself. Last man standing = winner.

That's not entirely true.... I heal the others a little bit during the fights to avoid any suspicion towards me.

Sometimes we make it through and other times we don't. That's the way she goes.

[Rawonspecial]

blame tank? you sure not blaming the healer instead? because that is what usually happen when party got wiped

[Zipacnaa]

Do you know what also is tank's job? To make sure everyone is at full HP before pulling the boss.

 

Also healer must have full or near full resources, especially if healer is Sage/Sorc. And no, it's not healer's job to heal your Marauder between pulls and especially before boss fight.

 

 

I have absolutely no problems what so ever with letting a DPS, that won't heal themselves in between fights, die.

 

Some catch on as the FP progress other don't. Those "others" are without a doubt 9/10 times a F2P kid with an ego the size of Russias HomoPutin

[Mavolio]

I'm sure this kind of stuff has been brought up before, but this just ticked me off. So I just ran hard mode Athiss with this DPS jugg, I quit early. I play a Jugg myself, level 56 tank, in full 55 gear. I've played MMO's since Burning Crusade came out, and have played all roles in several MMO's and I was under the impression that the tanks job is to tank and the DPS is to kill things. That's how the dynamic works. This DPS jugg immediately starts running ahead of me and pulling all the groups. He does this for more than half the pulls, what results is this. He pulls, blows his load and builds a bunch of aggro, naturally, I dive in and taunt, smash, start sweeping slashing. He has so much aggro on me from pulling that the taunt drops and then they go straight after him, The healer is having to spam him to keep him up, when I finally get aggro back on everything, said healer is so focused on him that he doesn't even notice my health is dropping like a bolder in water, I proceed to either have to pop all my crap or die, group almost wipes. We make it to the first boss, I pull and start building threat on boss. He Goes balls out, which is fine on a boss, however the adds pop. Neither of the DPS go for the adds, I'm beating on the boss and see them making a bee line for the healer and begin to pound on him. Seeing they aren't doing what they're supposed to I have to jump over and grab threat, DPS jugg keeps pounding on boss, pull threat, healer busy healing him self, dies, then I die, then group wipes. DPS jugg then proceeds to tell me "Don't think you can tank hard mode flashpoints" even though I've been doing that for the last 6 levels with no problems what so ever. At this point, I'm naturally annoyed and tell him to stop pulling and to ease DPS if he pulls threat (the things I was taught as a DPS in every MMO I've played). He proceeds to rage on me. I quit, he then whisper's me and continues his trash talk. I ignore him. In my old guilds a guy like this would have been kicked from the group immediately. What's ironic is that he complained in the beginning of the FP that he was having trouble with this map before, I have not. Common denominator? So yeah, a little venting. Any horror stories form anyone else?

 

Wall of rant with a side of dayumn!!! ...but I feel your pain and flustration.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Mavolio

[Ruskaeth]

Come on! Someone needs to admit they enjoy pulling aggro off the not so great tanks!

[Darth_Wicked]

I shall quote this one great post, to remind all of its ever lasting glory:

 

Rules of a Marauder by Xeous/Araenos

 

Rule #1 of Marauders: Remember you're a tank, You always need to engage first.

Rule #2 of Marauders: If you're not wearing eradicator your not cool.

Rule #3 of Marauders: If you die its never your fault, Always blame the tank or healer for not doing their job.

Rule #4 of Marauders: If you can dodge an AOE you're not a marauder.

Rule #5 of Marauders: Always stand in AOE's as a marauder this will keep your healer on his toes.

Rule #6 of Marauders: As a Marauder it's very important to follow up with the CC'd targets they're always #1 priority.

Rule #7 of Marauders: As a Marauder filling your rage is most important spam your basic attacks only and keep your rage at 100%

Rule #8 of Marauders: When your tank is running fast through the flashpoint be sure to pull as much of the skipped trash mobs as you can. Don't want the tank to forget about you

Rule #9 of Marauders: Remember as a Marauder you're instantly the leader of the group, Never listen to the tank or healers they're just ignorant.

Rule #10 of Marauders: You're the most important as long as you're in Eradicator or Revan's outfit, Remember to show of how cool you are with your outfit when jumping in first.

Rule #11 of Marauders: Remember as a marauder it's the healers job to keep you at 100% between fights, NEVER HEAL YOURSELF. (Thanks for suggestion by Monthigos)

Rule #12 of Marauders: Always use dual lightsaber throw to pull the mobs behind what you're currently fighting, it's always a good way to keep the fight exciting.

Rule #13 of Marauders: When the "tank" calls out specific targets alway attack the wrong one to steal agro from him. We all know Marauders are the real tanks.

Rule #14 of Marauders: When fighting a boss that cast tons of skills be sure to yell at everyone else to interupt but remember its never your job to interupt them. If he cast it be sure to blame the tank for being a n00b.

 

These rules were confirmed by the official EMC (Eradicated Marauder Council) but were written by a Tank/Healer. If you see me around Jedi Cov and you're a Marauder tell me thanks for the tips

 

Or the

Edited February 13, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[FlyinSpaghetti]

 

Boss fights:

If you are not using regen as Marauder/Sentinel before boss fight to get 30 stacks, you're doing it wrong.

 

 

 

Healer only gets damage reduction from Guard. Any enemy that hasn't been attacked by tank or dps will eventually run to healer. At this point we would have to ask important question: what is dps doing?

 

DPS who is doing their job properly is more likely to get hit by enemy/boss.

 

Every time I get 55 HM GF pop on my Marauder boss eventually turns around and says "Hello there." and I have to use Force Camo... and it repeats every few seconds except that I don't have Force Camo available.

 

While the utility to charge up your centering is useful, it isn't required to play a sent/mara. Most watchman and focus sents pre 3.0 lived without it. Knowing the class well means knowing which utilities are beneficial for which fights and switching accordinly. For example on bulo or sword squadron it may be more useful to have extra aoe damage reduction or saber ward heals rather than having the ability to pre charge centering.

[JudasGray]

Welp - this is one of the main issues I face as a DPS Jugg myself.

 

If I ever have to go GF when my guild isn't on - I get to play 20 questions before the run starts - and I get it - there are tons of bad DPS - but there are other times that people will flat out leave when i'm part of a GF - which is what is is - albeit annoying.

 

This is why there should be some way to teach players - in game - how to really play their roles in FPs, etc.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

If i'm in a Guild Run, I do blame the tanks, it's not my fault YOU can't do your job of getting threat. If my DPS is so balls to the wall then maybe you should learn to GUARD A *********** DPS... It frustrates me to no end when my raid team is in Coratanni and the Walkers and the DPS never get guarded... In the walkers, i'm the bomb carrier, shouldn't I get a guard to reduce my damage taken when it comes time for me to grab the bomb? And in Coratanni, healing that fight is so easy as is, i've had a good 20s before when I was healing on my Op healer where I was able to deal damage and nothing was able to out damage my Kolto Probes and Infusions.

 

In a nutshell: Tanks, learn to guard a DPS, Healers don't produce that much threat (0.5 threat per heal point on all targets in the fight) whereas DPS pull alot of threat (1 threat per damage point to the target being hit). Guard a DPS next time your in an Ops fight.

[Thoronmir]

When playing my healer, I usually just heal myself. Last man standing = winner.

That's not entirely true.... I heal the others a little bit during the fights to avoid any suspicion towards me.

Sometimes we make it through and other times we don't. That's the way she goes.

This made me smile ... probably because I play healers.

 

My most basic rule for group content as a healer is simple: "If I end up hitting anything with my light saber, things have gone horribly wrong." If I'm getting swarmed by adds, someone ain't doing his/her job, and it ain't me (I know how to pace my heals and where my skills to shed threat are on my toolbar). But, yeah. sometimes the Bantha droppings strike the rotary cooling apparatus. Before I ever bail, I try to figure out if the problem is fixable; i.e., did someone just make a mistake, does someone just need a little education, or is someone completely hopeless (unwilling to improve)? Only in that last circumstance do I consider leaving.

[JamieKirby]

I personally think all flashpoints and operations should be tactical based, but i am thinking most players are just afraid of change, i mean i love the whole tactical style, where you actually don't have to bow down to an arrogant ***** that does the tank role to get what they want, most healers are like that too, since tanks and healers are harder to get then dps are, so dps get spat on and *****ed at for the slightest thing, while tanks and healers get treated like royalty.

 

I tend to only do a flashpoint and a tactical once per day each for the commendations, any more then that is pointless and a waste of time, i think all flashpoints should be like KDY, as in you can do it, no matter your level, that it scales to your level........since KDY come out, that is the only one that tends to get done, since everything else requires a 30+ minutes wait.

[mogorsmith]

If i'm in a Guild Run, I do blame the tanks, it's not my fault YOU can't do your job of getting threat. If my DPS is so balls to the wall then maybe you should learn to GUARD A *********** DPS... It frustrates me to no end when my raid team is in Coratanni and the Walkers and the DPS never get guarded... In the walkers, i'm the bomb carrier, shouldn't I get a guard to reduce my damage taken when it comes time for me to grab the bomb? And in Coratanni, healing that fight is so easy as is, i've had a good 20s before when I was healing on my Op healer where I was able to deal damage and nothing was able to out damage my Kolto Probes and Infusions.

 

In a nutshell: Tanks, learn to guard a DPS, Healers don't produce that much threat (0.5 threat per heal point on all targets in the fight) whereas DPS pull alot of threat (1 threat per damage point to the target being hit). Guard a DPS next time your in an Ops fight.

 

If you are ever guarded as the bomb runner the rest of your dps must be worthless. learn to play foo