DPS commando and vanguard comparisons?

[Cavadus]

I'm actually a commando Assault specialist.

 

Why? Assault Specialist is almost entirely predicated on HIB and as a Commando you're missing out on the single greatest HIB talent which is "Focused Impact" from Tactics. 3 skill points will get you 60% armor bypass on HIBs.

 

I run a mostly Assault Specialist Vanguard but I use Ion Cell and have it fully pimped out along with a few other things from Shield Specialist (like Rebraced Armor and, more importantly, Steely Resolve).

 

If you want a highly mobile Trooper and enjoy Assault Specialist you should go Vanguard because the synergy between Shield Specialist and Tactics with Assault Specialist is better than what the Commando's two AC trees can offer.

 

Vanguard's DPS is awesome; if people are claiming to do more damage with a L28 Commando than a L46 Vanguard they have no *********** idea how to play a Vanguard.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Cavadus

[RallyXtreme]

I was actually wondering how good the assault tree is on a commando. Currently at 50 I'm a gunner, and I was enjoying it, large numbers and what not, until Ive run into 50's with decent/good gear. The damage output goes way down, and unless you crit, and crit big your damage isn't that good. Not to mention as someone stated, you must stay stationary and hope to go un-noticed. If a smart melee spots you and starts to beat on you, forcing a gunner to go mobile makes you to be a dead stick in my opinion. So I was wondering if assault spec, for pvp anyway, is a better option for better mobility and what not. Also do you switch to assault rifles or stay with assault cannon if you switch specs?

[canobeansPL]

A couple of points:

 

1. People claiming Commandos have some magical uber-damage should get off their cool-aid and/or learn to play. Assault Vans mature near 50 due to synergy with secondary talents from other trees. Tactics deals slightly lower damage but has impressive mobility, and is a fascinating potential flavor for people who like this kind of thing in pvp.

1a. One downside to Vanguard DPS is in PvE: unlike Commandos, they don't have a long-term CC.

 

2. Commandos rely on casted attacks and are therefore more reliant on their groups. Vanguards use 2 channelled attacks w/o pushback (Pulse Cannon and Mortar), rest is insta.

 

3a. Vanguards need to get up close to deal their damage, but PvP-wise they aren't necessarily a melee class. There is quite a bit of space between 4 and 10 meters. Unlike Shield, Assault doesn't need to close into melee to reliably apply their speed debuff.

3b. Tactics is more of a jump-in, jump-out kind of play, but when they stick up close, they provide best-in-game interrupt capability for burning down healers/cast time DPS.

3c. Commandos are all about keeping the baddies away, for which you have a number of tools (blast 'em away, stun, heals, preferably friends).

 

4. Vanguards make great hybrids. 23shield/18assault (you run it with the tanking cell) provides the best of both worlds: incredible survivability with very respectable damage and both Storm and Harpoon.

Edited January 8, 2012 by canobeansPL

[Psionic_X]

so what you are saying is: dps commando sucks for pvp while vanguards rocks in pvp without any downsides and no matter in which spec ?

 

ps: not saying it aint the case, since i have no vanguard as of yet. but it seems somewhat hard to believe since BW got the class balance right for the most part (aside from operatives/scoundrels maybe).

Edited January 9, 2012 by Psionic_X

[OmegaJinjo]

Does Assault Spec for Vanguard not make it ranged? Does it still need to get close for some key abilities for DPS?

[ChimaeraUK]

Why? Assault Specialist is almost entirely predicated on HIB and as a Commando you're missing out on the single greatest HIB talent which is "Focused Impact" from Tactics. 3 skill points will get you 60% armor bypass on HIBs.

 

I went commando assault specialist as well, and to be honest it was purely based on the fact that i wanted a freakin huge gun, but preferred the extra abilities from that tree and not the ones in gunnery.

 

I've not had any problems with damage in PvE and since it's a PvP spec i do pretty well there, not everyone cares about maxing out their damage it's perfectly viable for commando's although i admit it's the lesser of the two DPS trees.

 

Actually i find that i do really well in flashpoints too, since assault is designed around DOTs it tends to work well on bosses.

[Krimp]

For those who say vanguard is bad, check out http://taugrim.com/

 

Read his guides and watch his videos

[Necodreus]

The biggest issues i have read about for vanguards is you have alot of skills you have to remember to counter whats infront of you, while staying mobile. Plus the fact that most class's will bypass your tanking stats but if your trying to dps it doesnt matter. Mostly your a utility for your group that annoys the hell out of the casters..

[mandaboo]

The biggest issues i have read about for vanguards is you have alot of skills you have to remember to counter whats infront of you, while staying mobile. Plus the fact that most class's will bypass your tanking stats but if your trying to dps it doesnt matter. Mostly your a utility for your group that annoys the hell out of the casters..

 

Lol this for sure.

[Caesar]

end game pvp geared out vanguards are better for warzones. while commandos can dish out the damage they don't have the survivability. for example in huttball vanguards have a pull and a leap + guard which is great utility. for other warzones like alderaan guard comes in real handy. they might be inferior leveling but once geared up they're really good and very desireable for warzones and flashpoints.

[Fairell]

this is an outright falsehood

 

 

i have 46 vanguard and a 28 commando. my commando is already doing more dmg per shot than my vanguard. perspective:

 

grav rounds hit for 700-800, crit for 1.9k at times at 28

 

 

stockstrike fully talented including the +crit dmg from shield - 550-680 hit, 1.3k crit at 46. with almost 300 more aim.

 

 

no, there is a big difference. after 30 or so vanguard damage scaling goes into the toilet while the dps classes continue on. this 'only a 5% difference' you read from beta testers were from testers who never made it out of the teens.

 

this is a lie if ur talking about pvp

 

my 29 commando crits for 2.5k with grav round and my 22 vanguard crits for 2k with stockstrike without any stockstrike dmg buffs

Edited January 25, 2012 by Fairell

[Fairell]

I'm actually a commando Assault specialist. It's really an amazing damage build. It allows for great mobility, and excellent damage (if used properly). I thought the vanguard was for me.. but it's based around melee, and that doesn't appeal to me. Regarding the story preferences, it was not as much of an influence to me as it is to you. I also had the issues with Grav round (which i posted a comment on in a grav round animation thread) which is part of what led me to switch to Assault spec.

 

I also thought assault spec was lame until I tried it. For pvp, it's definitely superior to Gunnery. It also does way more damage than any vanguard tree.. (my first character was a vangaurd, got him to 23 and tried all 3 specs.. all were horribly underwhelming for pvp.. rerolled commando, now 32). So i would argue against your criticisms of Assault spec. Burning people alive? Yes. Heavy dots and fire damage? Yes. Unbelievably high usage and damage of High Impact Bolt? Yes. Mobile? Yes. Explosions? Yes.

 

Just my preferences.

 

assault spec vanguard hits a LOT harder with high impact bolt than an assault commando.

[Corran]

this is a lie if ur talking about pvp

 

my 29 commando crits for 2.5k with grav round and my 22 vanguard crits for 2k with stockstrike without any stockstrike dmg buffs

 

lower level players get more out of the bolster buff provided your gear is at your same level

 

 

case in point - my guardian i'm levelling up hit harder at 20 with level 20 pvp gear and all moddable gear at level 20 than he did at 45 using level 40 gear in pvp

 

 

the numbers i gave are for pve. i have a 50 vanguard, 50 scoundrel, 50 sage and soon to be 50 guardian

 

 

vanguards need some help in terms of damage in pvp. yes yes yes - those in premades do extremely well. but not everyone gets premades. the other classes i play do better in a pug situation than a vanguard

[Corran]

assault spec vanguard hits a LOT harder with high impact bolt than an assault commando.

 

no, they do not

[Waagabond]

Vanguard Assault far outdps a commando assault spec.

 

60% extra armor penetration on HIB from tier 1 tactics alone makes up for it.

Add 9% crit for 3 talent points on incend and assault plastique, in tier 1 and 2. It adds to ion pulse as well.

 

I think I have never had a commando outdps my Vanguard.

And most often Im outdpsing enemy BH mercs by a lot. of course they have at times done more damage then me, with healers etc.

 

The burst of Commando gunnery or Mercs, if they are left alone, is tremendous.

But they need to remain stationary.

 

Vanguards can do almost same damage but be on the move 100% of the time.

You dont need to include stockstrike into your rotation to do great damage, use it when you can, it does add alot for sure. Iion pulse is great, but you can play a vanguard at 30m range if you want too.

 

Hammer strike alone with talented plasma cells and 3/3 rain of fire does ALOT of damage.

 

For PVE, ,as a full assault you need to use stockstrike and ion pulse to max your damage, mainly to have a chanse to reset HIB and cast it for free.

 

As for damage. Saying that damage does not move from a vanguard between 35 to 46. Sure, if you didnt update your gear it wont. But if you have lvl 46 gear or around lvl 40 gear, and upgraded your abilities, the difference is huge.

 

In PVP FROM that I was lvl 40, I had 2.5k crits on HIB often, and assault plastique I had 3k crits on, from 40. Now that Im higher, those numbers are seen often and stockstrike, even with 0 talents in it, hits for well above 2k-3k on a crit.

 

But yes, our hardest hitting ability is a talented stockstrike from shield spec. I doubt we can have anything hitting that hard, I guess crits in the 4k is rather common for a champion geared shield/assault spec.

 

Vanguards are incredibly strong but if you are not able to constantly use around 10+ abilities, then Vanguard is not for you.

You want to just spam 1 ability, Grav Round, go Commando.

 

With my vanguard im currently at 23 qbinds and that does not include buffs, only abilities I use in combat, all the time.

Its not a hard class to play decent, but to master the vanguard, it takes some skill.

To play the commando well, takes less, if all you want is damage. Then again, do remember you are a stationary turret.

 

In my opinoin: If you want to do damage and/or tank. You play a vanguard,

If you want to heal, play a commando.

You want to do ranged damage: Play a gunslinger.

[rasab]

So i read here many posts from people far beyond the 50 judging with made up numbers one or another class....now i m 50 since quite while, i got now 136 gear in nearly every slot, all others are 126...and yes i m a vanguard dps.

 

Do vanguards dish out damage? yes, more than enough..is it seflrunning -> no.

The dps specs are proc-builds with max 2 dots that you gotta keep up (depending on the build). So if someone tells me he plays a vanguard dps and it sucks, i have to guess that he hasn t understood the dps-mechanics of the class.

 

Assaults gotta keep up 2 dots , and have to keep assaultplastique on cd, as well as force hib with stockstrike or ionpulse -> the burst is rather low (exept assault plasitique is ready, with that your burst is fine) but you will find yourself often enough spamm hammershot, the dps over time are amazing and give you massive mobility...wich makes it an interesting semi-melee-build....but an rather unflexible in terms of pve. All encounters (there are plenty) that force you to do something else, than spam you prio-list kick you sooner than later in the hammer-shot-direction.

 

Tactics gotta keep one dot up and then firepulse -> ionpulse -> stockstrike -> hib, hib/firepulse on cd -> spam ionpulse (keep up gut) till 5stacks ioncannon (with my gear i see now 3k crit hits per tick of ioncannon with 5 stacks, you can do the math yourself )

 

The magic thing about tactics is that you nearly never gotta use hammershot and from my countless hardmode-flashpoint and operation runs, i m convinced that i m overall dishing alot more dps with tactics than with assault.

 

With tactics you got so much ressource left, that you will never come into ressourcehell -> ad spawn? who cares? gotta burst something? who cares? you will allways have more than enough ressources left to coninue you main prio-list.

Btw. there s no better aoe-build than a vanguard-tactics-build, which far outrunns the commando in that aspect.

 

I find my self in the position that i don t want to make more dps anymore, cause even with the tanks-guard i draw aggo everywhere countless times, no matter if hm-operation encounter or even worse hm-flashpoint encounter, i watch nearly halfe the time of an fp-encounter and prey that when i start i don t have to semi-tank again.

And that s all as sincere as it gets.

 

The only thing that commandos have "more" than vanguards is base-max-weapon-damage

[Deathismyname]

Its already been stated but seriously if you have any questions on vanguard google taugrim vanguard swtor. The dude gives great advice and absolutely destroys with his vanguard, he has videos which he talks you through tactics like john madden. Really just an incredible source of pvp knowledge. I'm rolling a vanguard for this reason and honestly I wish his sentinel was higher lvl so I could learn better strategy from this guy.

[Rhinzual]

Vanguard Assault far outdps a commando assault spec.

 

60% extra armor penetration on HIB from tier 1 tactics alone makes up for it.

Add 9% crit for 3 talent points on incend and assault plastique, in tier 1 and 2. It adds to ion pulse as well.

 

I think I have never had a commando outdps my Vanguard.

And most often Im outdpsing enemy BH mercs by a lot. of course they have at times done more damage then me, with healers etc.

 

The burst of Commando gunnery or Mercs, if they are left alone, is tremendous.

But they need to remain stationary.

 

Vanguards can do almost same damage but be on the move 100% of the time.

You dont need to include stockstrike into your rotation to do great damage, use it when you can, it does add alot for sure. Iion pulse is great, but you can play a vanguard at 30m range if you want too.

 

Hammer strike alone with talented plasma cells and 3/3 rain of fire does ALOT of damage.

 

For PVE, ,as a full assault you need to use stockstrike and ion pulse to max your damage, mainly to have a chanse to reset HIB and cast it for free.

 

As for damage. Saying that damage does not move from a vanguard between 35 to 46. Sure, if you didnt update your gear it wont. But if you have lvl 46 gear or around lvl 40 gear, and upgraded your abilities, the difference is huge.

 

In PVP FROM that I was lvl 40, I had 2.5k crits on HIB often, and assault plastique I had 3k crits on, from 40. Now that Im higher, those numbers are seen often and stockstrike, even with 0 talents in it, hits for well above 2k-3k on a crit.

 

But yes, our hardest hitting ability is a talented stockstrike from shield spec. I doubt we can have anything hitting that hard, I guess crits in the 4k is rather common for a champion geared shield/assault spec.

 

Vanguards are incredibly strong but if you are not able to constantly use around 10+ abilities, then Vanguard is not for you.

You want to just spam 1 ability, Grav Round, go Commando.

 

With my vanguard im currently at 23 qbinds and that does not include buffs, only abilities I use in combat, all the time.

Its not a hard class to play decent, but to master the vanguard, it takes some skill.

To play the commando well, takes less, if all you want is damage. Then again, do remember you are a stationary turret.

 

In my opinoin: If you want to do damage and/or tank. You play a vanguard,

If you want to heal, play a commando.

You want to do ranged damage: Play a gunslinger.

Yeah, I have a Marksman Sniper, the same heavy dps build as the appropriate gunslinger build and let me tell you, seeing your 3.5 sec activation Ambush get deflected or dodged while the Grav Round/Tracer Missile always hits due to being ranged tech and not ranged weapon damage/kinetic is no fun at all.

 

How do I put out dps as a Marksman Sniper? I crouch and leave myself a huge target in PvP that says "HEY! I'M THE GUY WITH THE COVER SCREEN! KILL ME NOW! HERP DERP!". Oh, if my Sniper is moving because I got spotted by a commando, I have to hope I don't get snared or I won't be entering cover, despite cover having it's own animation prior to snaring me and providing a paltry 20% ranged weapon defense, the utter crap in both PvP and a good number of PvE situations.

 

After getting to level 20, I understand why mercs and commandos love Tracer Missile and Grav Round spam: that stuff never gets dodged or deflected and as Tech, it bypasses the shield proc chance (I think, I'd have to look at another thread) and the procs for Unload/Full Auto that it can set up (again, heard in another thread).

 

One more good thing about Tracer Missile and Grav Round over Rail Shot/HIB alone? The toggles used provide a lot of armor pierce and the abilities can be made to stack armor reduction even further to help the normal kinetic attacks. Not that armor matters really in PvP due to expertise anyway.

[Zakmonster]

As an Assault Vanguard, I never saw Stockstrike as the Vanguard's hardest hitting ability. Sure, it hurts when it lands, but it is fully mitigated by armor and shields. High Impact Bolt, when talented, ignores 90% of the target's armor. It hits for about 1100 (I'm level 35, currently) and crits for about 1700. And when HiB hits a burning target, you gain 1 ammo and you have a good 35% chance to instantly refresh HiB and cast it for free. As an Assault spec Vanguard, all targets you hit with HiB are burning, so 9 times out of 10, using HiB gives you 1 ammo.

 

Plus, in PvP, a Commando can be interrupted. I've dueled many Mercs and they generally only manage to get one Tracer Missile/Grav Round off and they have no chance of running away because of Plasma Cell slow. Plus its really fun to run in circles while setting everybody on fire. There's so much LoS and cover in warzones that playing defensive stops being about stats and just movement/positioning. As a Vanguard, you only stop moving when you're dead.

 

In PvE, however, especially in a raid scene, I'd probably agree that the Commando has a potential for higher DPS, considering their range advantage and the general lack of interrupts in a raid encounter. However, in an encounter where everyone is forced to move on a regular basis, the Vanguard's ability to fire on the run will provide him an advantage.

 

tl;dr Both ACs have their strengths and weaknesses, but the Vanguard is generally more in-your-face than the Commando.

[AmratheAvenger]

I will give you the best example of 5% damage this bioware says. So me and my friend are both 50's and he is an assault speced commando and I am an assault spaces vangaurd. At he end of the war one he had about 237k damage, I had about 236k damage. Bios are doesn't lie, that is inside the 5% right. Assault is the best fps spec by far. I get 3k ctiz with high impact bolt. 2k Curtis with stock strike and 2.7k fritz with assault plastique and if u get good fritz and reset high impact bolt u can spa so well. I nearly took out an operative but even with all the great fritz he stilled had 20% up left but I lost 30% of mine in 1 shot. But if u want dps with ur awesome bunker braking trooper go vanguard assault. Bad ***

[jhMaracle]

Yea the commando/vangard thing kills me... Commando fit my playstle but has the retarded looking miniguns, Vanguards look AWESOME but dont have a range spec.

 

 

 

WTB a 30m spec that uses blaster rifles

 

Have you tried or looked at assault Vanguard; I asked about a mid ranged vanguard and Assault specialist was recommended; I love the vanguard but I like to fight mid range. Give that a try

[Calibretto]

I will give you the best example of 5% damage this bioware says. So me and my friend are both 50's and he is an assault speced commando and I am an assault spaces vangaurd. At he end of the war one he had about 237k damage, I had about 236k damage. Bios are doesn't lie, that is inside the 5% right. Assault is the best fps spec by far. I get 3k ctiz with high impact bolt. 2k Curtis with stock strike and 2.7k fritz with assault plastique and if u get good fritz and reset high impact bolt u can spa so well. I nearly took out an operative but even with all the great fritz he stilled had 20% up left but I lost 30% of mine in 1 shot. But if u want dps with ur awesome bunker braking trooper go vanguard assault. Bad ***

 

For the love of all that is good and holy... Bro, you didn't manage to spell "crits" right one time. You used "ctiz," "Curtis (LOL!)," "fritz" three times - Get off the drugs dude. Crits - it's short for critical hits.

[_Nobby_]

Vanguard damage is fine. People will prefer to see big numbers for single hits but this is not what you'll come to expect when playing vanguard.

 

I'm tank specced for PvP and PvE with 31/8/2 and struggle to get a medal for a 2.5k hit. I basically have to get the edurance buff in a WZ and pop a crit/surge trinket. My overall damage is suprisingly high however

 

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj65/salanex/vanguarddmg.png

 

If you want large overall damage as vanguard in PvP, you don't have an option of playing range. You need to be in the thick of it busting out stock strikes, ion pulses and ion cannon.