I cry.

[Camelpockets]

http://i.imgur.com/8YbaYmC.jpg

 

I can't even.

[PastorofPain]

Not really shocking, since no one died I assume he was just standing there spamming force storm on everyone for the entire match.

[ThatEvilDude]

Lightning Spec spamming Force Storm and Chain Lightning on a large group for the whole match. (Yes it needs a nerf.) But seriously, he racks up that much damage without actually being helpful. He could have done so much more if he didn't care as much about the number as actually winning the match.

 

Also there aren't many people who are going to die against the heals trio you had going there.

Edited February 7, 2015 by ThatEvilDude

[TitusOfTides]

Lightning Spec spamming Force Storm and Chain Lightning on a large group for the whole match. (Yes it needs a nerf.) But seriously, he racks up that much damage without actually being helpful. He could have done so much more if he didn't care as much about the number as actually winning the match.

 

Also there aren't many people who are going to die against the heals trio you had going there.

 

Not trying to argue, but I don't understand why a spec that was unable to get a single kill would need to be nerfed? Do less damage AND get no kills? That doesn't really sound fair.

Edited February 7, 2015 by TitusOfTides

[OMGITSJAD]

Not trying to argue, but I don't understand why a spec that was unable to get a single kill would need to be nerfed? Do less damage AND get no kills? That doesn't really sound fair.

 

Because for some reason the devs decided it was reasonable to let it do something like 4k ticks and work off recklessness and therefore have it part of even their optimal single target rotation.

[TitusOfTides]

Because for some reason the devs decided it was reasonable to let it do something like 4k ticks and work off recklessness and therefore have it part of even their optimal single target rotation.

 

In a vacuum, sure. It can be interrupted and forced to CD for 8s. You can also move out of it. Then there are knockbacks and a slew of other ways to interrupt or avoid the damage. Even still, though, that damage is still less than other DPS classes get on approximately 50% of their abilities (most of which are bursts of damage and don't have to static channel). Also, just because it's an AoE doesn't mean it shouldn't have a place in a single target rotation - especially when that place in the rotation is once every 2mins or so when you can pop recklessness (even if it were viable all the time... so what? The damage is much less than other DPS abilities in other classes and it has more than one way to negate it... which you could argue is one too many).

Edited February 7, 2015 by TitusOfTides

[ThatEvilDude]

Because for some reason the devs decided it was reasonable to let it do something like 4k ticks and work off recklessness and therefore have it part of even their optimal single target rotation.

 

This is the reason.^

 

Also, I know the healers on that team, they are some of the best on the server. Having 3 healers of that skill AoE heal in the middle. I don't care if there were multiple Sorcs doing that, nobody is dying in mid there. The people who have kills on that team, manage to do so by pulling people away from the healers and beating them 1v1. or 2v1. This happens surprisingly often on our server. (Not the damage numbers, because that is just ridiculous, but the lack of deaths in Mid. We have plenty of good PvP healers on BC.

 

Forcequake/Force Storm is designed to be an AoE force dump ability for AoE use only. There are AoE abilities in our Single target rotations, sure (Force in Balance/Death Field, Telekinetic Wave/Chain lightning), but those are proc'd or proc other abilities.

Edited February 7, 2015 by ThatEvilDude

[TitusOfTides]

Forcequake/Force Storm is designed to be an AoE force dump ability for AoE use only. There are AoE abilities in our Single target rotations, sure (Force in Balance/Death Field, Telekinetic Wave/Chain lightning), but those are proc'd or proc other abilities.

 

Perhaps it was designed that way initially, but now we are playing version 3.0 of the game - and a lot of changes have come with it.

 

Forcequake and Force Storm do trigger procs.

 

Also, Force Storm and Forcequake are far from optimal in anything outside of Lightning/TK. It is my personaly belief that since Force Storm and Forcequake are present in all 3 disciplines, that it gets much more exposure than some of the other discipline specific abilities, and thus causes the inevitable complaints to (by sheer quantity) target these AoEs.

[ThatEvilDude]

Perhaps it was designed that way initially, but now we are playing version 3.0 of the game - and a lot of changes have come with it.

 

Forcequake and Force Storm do trigger procs.

 

Also, Force Storm and Forcequake are far from optimal in anything outside of Lightning/TK. It is my personaly belief that since Force Storm and Forcequake are present in all 3 disciplines, that it gets much more exposure than some of the other discipline specific abilities, and thus causes the inevitable complaints to (by sheer quantity) target these AoEs.

 

You are right with the procs. Sorry I don't play Lightning/Telekinetics the amount I should. The point is, they shouldn't be in single target rotations, so maybe the perk in the Lightning/Telekinetics tree should be changed, because that is the whole reason it is in a single target rotation right now.

[TitusOfTides]

You are right with the procs. Sorry I don't play Lightning/Telekinetics the amount I should. The point is, they shouldn't be in single target rotations, so maybe the perk in the Lightning/Telekinetics tree should be changed, because that is the whole reason it is in a single target rotation right now.

 

I'm glad you don't play them, they're overrated in my opinion. That is a very good point, and should be considered by someone with a better grasp of how the numbers affect gameplay than myself. I do feel, however, that simply because an ability is AoE doesn't mean it shouldn't be used in single target engagements.

[Exosasa]

I'm more concerned with why your toon has 51k HP.

[Ryuku-sama]

http://i.imgur.com/8YbaYmC.jpg

 

I can't even.

 

Wow.... 3.4m and still lost... So amazing.. ******* spamming Storm and CL or DF and spreading DoTs like moron. If he knew what he was doing, his numbers would have been lower but you could have won.

 

And get out of your 192-198 gear before talking about PvP. With that much HP you either had the worst stat optimization I can think of or was way overgeared (remember everything over 156 is likely to lower your expertise).

[Iona_Var]

I for one never spam force storm unless trying to keep people from capping a node cuz most people are smart enough to move out of it and/or come after you. High damage may win you achievements and medals but it doesn't always win matches.

[OMGITSJAD]

In a vacuum, sure. It can be interrupted and forced to CD for 8s. You can also move out of it. Then there are knockbacks and a slew of other ways to interrupt or avoid the damage. Even still, though, that damage is still less than other DPS classes get on approximately 50% of their abilities (most of which are bursts of damage and don't have to static channel).

 

Interrupt only stops it from being usable for 4 seconds, and there is currently a bug going around where most classes can't interrupt Force Storm even while the sorceror doesn't have the unshakeable buff(if they did, the interrupt button would be grayed out and hitting it would not put it on cooldown anyway). It wouldn't be half as annoying then(same with not being able to interrupt thundering blast). It's also not as simple as moving out of it. You have a 50% slow on you, can't interrupt it, and when you do move out of it, all the sorc has to do is hit ESC and re-plant it a few pixels to the side and boom, you're caught in it once more(also, I play sniper, so sitting still is kind of my class' thing).

 

Also, just because it's an AoE doesn't mean it shouldn't have a place in a single target rotation - especially when that place in the rotation is once every 2mins or so when you can pop recklessness (even if it were viable all the time... so what? The damage is much less than other DPS abilities in other classes and it has more than one way to negate it... which you could argue is one too many).

Speaking of playing Sniper; as the devs have already stated way back when, AOE abilities should not be apart of a single-target rotation. If they were, my Orbital Strike wouldn't just be tickling my opponents. And even that has more reason to be able to hit hard, seeing you plant it once, have 2.5 seconds to move out of it before one tick goes out, and then if the enemies move out of it, they completely negate the damage for a minute! Force Storm, as I said before, can just be instantly replanted, ticks quickly, and has no cooldown. Now, i'm not saying Force Storm should be removed from the game, but it needs about a 40-50% base damage nerf and the interrupt bug to be fixed. Then I would have absolutely no problem with the skill.

Edited February 8, 2015 by OMGITSJAD

[TitusOfTides]

Interrupt only stops it from being usable for 4 seconds, and there is currently a bug going around where most classes can't interrupt Force Storm even while the sorceror doesn't have the unshakeable buff(if they did, the interrupt button would be grayed out and hitting it would not put it on cooldown anyway). It wouldn't be half as annoying then(same with not being able to interrupt thundering blast). It's also not as simple as moving out of it. You have a 50% slow on you, can't interrupt it, and when you do move out of it, all the sorc has to do is hit ESC and re-plant it a few pixels to the side and boom, you're caught in it once more(also, I play sniper, so sitting still is kind of my class' thing).

 

My mistake on the interrupt, and if that bug were fixed it would make a big difference in how often you see the ability used. The last couple days I have had the ability interrupted more than usual, so I misunderstood the bug for a steep learning curve . Sure, they could replace it but without recklessness your only ticking for about 1.5k a second, which is pathetic already. As far as being a sniper, though, there are plenty of other classes that do not have to stand still - and because your class imposes a unique issue is not a solid basis for a nerf. Also, every class appears to get some type of immunity to movement impairments.

 

Speaking of playing Sniper; as the devs have already stated way back when, AOE abilities should not be apart of a single-target rotation. If they were, my Orbital Strike wouldn't just be tickling my opponents. And even that has more reason to be able to hit hard, seeing you plant it once, and then if the enemies move out of it, they completely negate the damage for a minute! Force Storm, as I said before, can just be instantly replanted. Now, i'm not saying Force Storm should be removed from the game, but it needs about a 40-50% base damage nerf and the interrupt bug to be fixed. Then I would have absolutely no problem with the skill.

 

I'm aware of this, but (as you said yourself) it was "way back when." Times have changed since then, and what was X before is now Y. While the old stance on AoE may have been eliminated, that alone does not mean that across the board all AoEs should now be viable as single target abilities. If there were a 40-50% nerf, we would be getting royally shafted. I will compare this ability to "Sweeping Blasters." Sweeping Blasters does 3409 damage over 3s - and receives the exact same crit/surge boost from the Blazing Barrels ability and furthermore 25% from the Boresights utility. Compare this to Force Storm. Force Storm does 6250 damage over 6 seconds, and receives the exact same crit/surge bonus from Storm Brewing ability and the Tempest utility. For half the channel time, Mercenaries gain over half the damage. Resource management is pretty low for both specs, so you could place Sweeping Blasters the same way - but they have better single target attacks, so you don't get spammed the same as Force Storm. So, even with our best ability, we do less than their mediocre ability. Then there are other factors where they outperform us yet again.

 

Anyways, Force Storm is only "OP" if you have all of your buffs active - so maybe for 6s in a 2 minute window you are "OP." Outside of that 6s window every 2 minutes, you will be doing about 1.5k a tick - all while getting torn apart in only a few moves by other DPS classes. Try Force Storm on Madness or Corruption, and you might as well just be standing there doing nothing. It's uniquely powerful in this specific discipline, and compared to other DPS abilities of other classes it is very weak.

[ArielRebel]

 

Anyways, Force Storm is only "OP" if you have all of your buffs active - so maybe for 6s in a 2 minute window you are "OP." Outside of that 6s window every 2 minutes, you will be doing about 1.5k a tick - all while getting torn apart in only a few moves by other DPS classes.

 

The problem is that Force Storm used on a lightning spec does more damage than a fully buffed flamethrower for pyro PTs (which also requires to be at 10m range and is only a cone on top of requiring/building up the stacks to fully buff it) and any other AoEs in the game (like Orbital Strike). Your argument of "they thought that way then, but now they changed the mentallity about AoE" is fallacious simply because Orbital Strike would have gotten a buff to make it on par (or even better because of the CD and channelling prior to damage, which FS does not have) with Force Storm if it was the case and thought that AoE should play a bigger role. Face it, FS is the strongest AoE in the game (even without Recklessness buff) damage wise, it does not have any CD and has one of the biggest size along with death field. If you fail to see the problem here, it's because you never played any other class (and by play, I mean fully PVP gear it).

Edited February 8, 2015 by ArielRebel

[Galothor]

While I agree that there is something wrong about an AoE attack hitting so hard, it is not as bad as those bads always say it is. As pointed out there is plenty you can do to prevent a sorc from getting the high numbers. That doesn't mean it should not be changed, BUT when it is changed some other sorc abilities have to be changed as well. Our high burst abilities are the lowest hitting of all classes(7-8k vs 12-17k of other classes). Our follow-ups are also weaker than those of the other classes. Most classes got better kiting tools. And Madness is even far worse off than Lightning! They should address this as well when they are making changes to Force Storm.

 

People are always whining about the big total numbers at the end of a match without ever giving a thought to how those numbers came to be and what they actually mean. I bet it would make a difference to you whether you are the sole winner of the jackpot or have to share it with other people.

[Jake_Chambers]

losing hits some of us harder than others, bruh

[TitusOfTides]

Your argument of "they thought that way then, but now they changed the mentallity about AoE" is fallacious simply because Orbital Strike would have gotten a buff to make it on par

 

Untrue. Just because one thing is changed does not imply that the other also has to change. I even mentioned that in the rest of my post you failed to quote.

[Ardusnyc]

All of you that cry about Force Storm's damage in ST rotation would still get handed by a Sorc after the nerf.

[Camelpockets]

I'm more concerned with why your toon has 51k HP.

 

Oh hey it does. I actually wasnt in this match, this is what someone from my server posted on our pvp records thread.

 

Pve gear much good.

[Hei_Atzfel]

All of you that cry about Force Storm's damage in ST rotation would still get handed by a Sorc after the nerf.

 

Whether or not that is true or untrue has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that force storm is extremely out of tune.

[Ardusnyc]

It's true, because you're bad.

 

When and if it gets nerfed, you will still die to a sorc then come to the forums to whine about something else about the class.

[Ycoga]

Because for some reason the devs decided it was reasonable to let it do something like 4k ticks and work off recklessness and therefore have it part of even their optimal single target rotation.

 

As a sage player since launch and after witnessing sage/sorcs in WZ I can safely say that using force quake on a single target is...

 

UNFORGIVABLY NOOB.

 

When I see one doing this I target and destroy them utterly. They are easy to kill. I know they will be easy to kill because they're doing force quake on single targets.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Ycoga

[Camelpockets]

As a sage player since launch and after witnessing sage/sorcs in WZ I can safely say that using force quake on a single target is...

 

UNFORGIVABLY NOOB.

 

When I see one doing this I target and destroy them utterly. They are easy to kill. I know they will be easy to kill because they're doing force quake on single targets.

 

Coming from a PvE perspective, it is optimal to use it with recklessness and the alacrity boost over spamming lightning bolt during an opener. But the chance of somebody staying inside the full channel is highly unlikely.